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When did it become a crime to....

Posted by monablair none (My Page) on
Tue, Oct 16, 12 at 8:10

have money?

I thought the American dream was to work hard, succeed, accumulate wealth and provide a good life for our children.

Now, it seems that we should dream of working (or not); sharing (or giving) whatever we can manage to save to others and depending on the government to support us.

I don't recall that JFK and his brothers were attacked for having family money. John Kerry married into the Heinz fortune. But Romney should be maligned because his father left him a sizeable amount of wealth?

Other than politics, did JFK ever hold a job in the real world? Other than being in the service? Isn't that something being held against Romney?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: When did it become a crime to....

It's the lying about it that is unacceptable.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

It's the cheating that is unacceptable. Making money by securing preferential treatment over others by bribing or lobbying for said preferential treatment.

Making money by taking profits for yourself at the expense of rewarding your own employees.

Making money by playing the stock market in risky maneuvers that make the market more risky for the rest of investors who don't have the ability to do the same.

It is not a crime to have money. But there should be more crimes associated with how you get that money! Or should I say, crimes for those that get caught ... which are very few.

Has anyone attacked Bill Gates for having money? Warren Buffet? I had not heard.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

It is the effort to take away from the rest of us that is despicable, especially on the part of Ayn Ryan


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

When did it become a crime to run a Ponzi scheme? Romney & Sons wants to know. Somebody tell them.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

How has Romney lied about his father's money?
Who is Ayn Ryan?

I'm sure if Gates or Buffet were candidates for the presidency, their fortunes would be begrudged, too.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Wealth is not the problem. Unethically obtained wealth is.

But then, we all know that.

Now what about the Ponzi scheme?


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Who said that Romney lied about his FATHER's money?


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

It's not wealth that people are upset about. It's the unethical, unfair way it is obtained and kept.

When the playing field is leveled, people will stop complaining. It's that simple.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

I want to know when it became acceptable to send all the dollars made from my purchases to other lands? To outsource all that they produce, putting Americans out of jobs? I believe in people being special, less governmental influence, but we are being robbed blind, right here, on our own soil. I don't begrudge fortunes, I begrude the anti-American sentiment they harbor. Not just Romney. Those "small businesses" he backs and will protect from having to pay their fair share.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

"Who is Ayn Ryan?"

Sorry you just don't get it. Ryan has espoused Ayn Rand's extreme views of capitalism early on in his life. And he seems to be proud of it. It's a supremely selfish philosophy put forth by a supremely selfish woman, who was born in Soviet Russia and relocated to the US, where she fomented her radical ideas via her books.
Maybe you should take a look at "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead."


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

He lies about how he got his own money.

Denies involvement with Bain. Claims big involvement with Staples. On and On and On. Have you been paying attention?


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Another aspect in the way the money is made - there's the traditional capitalism, call it creating Microsoft or Walmart Stores where - no matter what you think of their business practices - at least its plain to see that they're doing something with the economy - producing stuff, selling stuff, employing lots of people.

Versus the 'new capitalism' where the money is made by creating paper and gambling with others in international markets on esoteric shifts in exchange rates and other derivatives. Now that the assorted gvts are demanding that the banks and trading houses keep sufficient reserves for this kind of "investing", think of the amount of capital thats been withdrawn from the traditional, more economically productive definition.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

I thought the American dream was to work hard, succeed, accumulate wealth and provide a good life for our children.

You said the key word "work hard" where do you place Romney in that work hard position? Would you think the Al Capone idea was the American Dream success story.

America never honored money alone. It was how you made your money and a person's character. If you listened to that 47% speech you get a idea of his character. Do you think that is honorable.

I don't recall that JFK and his brothers were attacked for having family money. John Kerry married into the Heinz fortune. But Romney should be maligned because his father left him a sizeable amount of wealth?

Perhaps you do not remember because you were either to young to follow politics and your family did not talk politics when you were young, you only started following politics when there was a candidate you have been taught to vilify.

Kennedy was not only attacked about his family money and how his father became wealthy but also being a Catholic. Romney has not been attacked for his religion nor his money in the way Kennedy was attacked.

So when you say you do not recall you should ask yourself why you do not recall.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Tue, Oct 16, 12 at 10:19

Nothing wrong with the money, it's the addiction to it and the power that it buys which can causes problems...

Timothy 6:10
"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil."


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Perhaps a more clear lead in would have explained what you meant. You propose a perception that is mythic in it's basic thrust.
The nations monetary policies bend over backwards in permitting people to offshore wealth as a means of avoidance. It bends over backwards permitting banks to play catch us if you can.
In this country you can plead the 5th 75 times have you company pay the largest fine at the time to the Fed & then become Governor of Florida . That sure is a grand system.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Democrats have become the "US vs Them" party.

With half the population on the left side of the Bell Curve, Democrats already have a built in constituency. Look at what Democrats do in order to further their own political careers.

At the same time they are demonizing folks with the education and skills to compete for jobs and run their own businesses, Democrats continue to "welcome" an illegal underclass of foreign workers from south of the border. By "redistributing" money from taxpayers to feed and house illegal workers, Democrats enable them to stay here and undercut the Americans most in need of work opportunities.

What Democrats want to create is what we have. An artificially enlarged pool of low skilled workers our own citizens must compete against. Ironically, poor Americans hear Democrats rail against our "unfair system," and completely miss the role Democrats play in making it so difficult for them to compete for jobs in their own country in the first place.

Democrats are keeping wages artificially low for Americans, with their very own imported glut of illegal workers.

Demonizing folks who play by the rules has been a profitable gig for Democrats. If they cared about poor Americans, they wouldn't be making careers out of undercutting them by letting their jobs go to people with no right to take them.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

nik, you lied so many times in that post that I am at a loss to even pull one of them out for example.

Just saying something doesn't make it so.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Tue, Oct 16, 12 at 10:37

"Democrats have become the "US vs Them" party.

Mitt Romney 2012
53% vs 47%, Works for Me!

(but mostly in China)


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

"I want to know when it became acceptable to send all the dollars made from my purchases to other lands?"


How else are they going to get the dollars to buy OUR goods?

"... said the Russell 2000 stocks generate just 19 percent of their revenues internationally. As for the S&P 500, 46 percent of revenues are from overseas sources."

We keep it local. My daughter is still working on her iPod down in the cellar.

Hay


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

"Another aspect in the way the money is made - there's the traditional capitalism, call it creating Microsoft or Walmart Stores where - no matter what you think of their business practices - at least its plain to see that they're doing something with the economy - producing stuff, selling stuff, employing lots of people."

Absolutely none of this would be possible without the paper shuffling, gambling, derivative trading bankers on Wall Street.

Warren Buffet has sold an Enormous Put on the S&P.

Warren Buffet has made an enormous amount of money selling insurance. Another "derivative". Shuffling paper around.

And Warren Buffet has made an enormous amount of money, not by selling insurance directly to consumers, but by taking some of the portions of insurance proceeds that other insurance companies don't want to hold. More derivatives.

Our way of life, YOUR way of life, simply would not exist if we depended on your narrow view of "the traditional, more economically productive definition."

Hay


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Capitalism without ethics or empathy is just plain greed. It couldn't be simpler.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

marquest said,"you only started following politics when there was a candidate you have been taught to vilify."

Vilify:to utter slanderous and abusive statements against

I've tried hard not to find fault with him as a person. In fact, I think he's likely a good husband and father. I've said so many times.

I don't consider the fact that I disagree with his polices and that I think he's done a poor job as President as vilifying him.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

REALLY monablair ???? Do you remember this post?

You are as bad as Romney. You forget there is a foot print of what you say and do. RACIST BIGOT. Really???


Obama is a chameleon and tries to change his colors when it suits him. He is widening the racial divide in this country by promoting his opinion that government directs it's concerns to different segments of the population depending on the color of the peoples' skins.

He was supposed to be The Great Uniter...he is everything but that! I think he's a racial bigot.

It's not that he talks funny, it's that he switches to a Negro dialect when reaching down to "his people" and I consider that PANDERING!

Take a walk over to this topic and spend some time taking a bath and chew on a bar of soap because it was filthy.

Here is a link that might be useful: President


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Oh Hay nothing wrong with investing overseas .Everything wrong with multi shell corporations to play hide the pea or guess where I really live & may pay taxes!
Catch us if you can is a game of chicken played between State Attorneys General and sytem gamers all over the US.
I post the Ho hum another $250,000 Million or $450,000 million here & there they get so much action never from the OBAMA HATERS!

-Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee: $950,500.
-National Republican Congressional Committee: $238,500.
-Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee: $200,000.
-Republican National Committee: $128,500,
-National Republican Senatorial Committee: $83,345.

None of them are too swift too return the donations of Billionaire Ponzi schemer now in jail for 110 years!
We watched Jamie Dimon treated like a celebrity before Congressional hearing they were positively obsequious to the JP Morgan executive. No shame at all about it. JP Morgan pays it's fine & glitters in it's correspondence to stock holders the day after.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Who says having money is a crime? Having money is a good thing, something I aspire to!!! Matter of fact you may be surprised to know a significant number of liberals are rich, probably just as many as conservatives.

Very few, if anybody, dislikes Romney simply because he is rich. They have enough other reasons.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

What's the bolding for? You shouting?

The president IS like a chameleon. I think politicians are by necessity.

The president HAS widened the racial gap in this country. Interestingly, I think the gap has widened most dramatically between whites and whites. Witness this forum. White-guilt people and non-white-guilt people. The president figured this out back in college. He is totally non-racial. That's not his agenda, it's simply one means to his goal. A distraction.

I disagree with the statement that he's a racial bigot. I think he is exploiting the racial bigot in you and you and you.

Agree with the pandering, but that's part of the chameleon, so...what?

"Take a walk over to this topic and spend some time taking a bath and chew on a bar of soap because it was filthy."

Now that was just plain stupid and unnecessary. What was that "the last word"? Try to think, marquest.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

You seriously don't know who Ayn Rand is , Mona? Google is your friend. Might make you think. I have no problem with the Bill Gates and Warren Buffets because they achieved their wealth not in the underhanded ways Romney got rich. Romney is a ruthless capitalist which is evident in his not showing his taxes for the last ten years.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Oh but they know--just another poser. The goal is to parrot the talking points du jour. I predict a new thread oh, wait...


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Yeah... I'm calling it "Late To the Party..." as we've covered all these talking points and topics before.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

It is the effort to take away from the rest of us that is despicable

That sums it up for me.

But, of course, you probably knew that. Just another "innocent" question from you, like the abortion post you started today @ 12:01pm.

If you'd really been following along, and reading the posts here, nobody has ever complained that Romney has a lot of money. Only that he wants to reduce taxes on him and his buddies and widen the gap between himself and the rest of us. And that some of us do not consider someone that uses off shore accounts to avoid paying US taxes fit to be President.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Tue, Oct 16, 12 at 13:03

This stuff keeps coming up because the mindset is that rich guys are cool. It's not that one faction is attacking certain public figures merely because they are rich, it's that another group is snobs who think the wealthy should be adulated.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on Tue, Oct 16, 12 at 13:03

"This stuff keeps coming up because the mindset is that rich guys are cool."

That would explain the president and his Hollywood-type "friends". They're cool. Good point, bboy.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Can anyone give me one example where money was taken from them by someone else with more money?

Not by virtue of far removed instances of "tax laws" but literally--what wealthy person has cheated you out of something.

Exactly what was taken from you, how much, when, and by whom?


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Can anyone give me one example where money was taken from them by someone else with more money?

Not by virtue of far removed instances of "tax laws" but literally--what wealthy person has cheated you out of something.

Exactly what was taken from you, how much, when, and by whom?

WOW Demi has changed. She no longer think that if the taxes are raised those people that have no Personal Responsibility are taking her little pennies. Finally I think she learned. The poor that get tax dollars are not taking her little pennies.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

When you don't know what you're talking about but just want to be a smart aleck, it's better not to say anything.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Exactly what was taken from you, how much, when, and by whom?

I've received and seen various notifications of settlements of class-action lawsuits against VISA, Verizon, American Express. And then there were a number of class-action suits brought by shareholders regarding valuations during mergers. I can't recall all of them, but General Motors was one. Latest request for proof of claim is a securities litigation against Citigroup for purchases of common stock between Feb 26 2007 and April 18 2008. I also recall lawsuits against Bank of America and Wells Fargo for their fraudulent foreclosure practices. Plenty of lawsuits in California against Anthem Blue Cross for denying coverage after the insured was diagnosed with a disease requiring expense treatment.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

I thought I has seen something about Bain and a lawsuit: HCA shareholders allege Bain Capital bid-rigging

An alleged bid-rigging conspiracy among Bain Capital and other private equity firms to divvy up targeted companies -- including Nashville-based HCA -- may have taken as much as $1.6 billion out of HCA shareholders' pockets by blocking rival bidders and keeping a lid on the final price when the hospital chain was sold in 2006...

The notion that big private equity firms such as Bain, Goldman Sachs and the Blackstone Group engaged in a conspiracy to lower sales prices in leveraged buyouts from 2003 to 2007 remains a key claim in a federal lawsuit in Boston brought against those firms by former HCA shareholders, and by stockholders of other acquired companies -- such as Neiman Marcus and Toys "R" Us -- snapped up in Wall Street mega-deals before the recession.

HCA -- then a public company -- went private in 2006 in a $32.1 billion sale to private equity funds Kohlberg Kravis Roberts (KKR), Bain Capital and Merrill Lynch, as well as to family members of HCA's co-founder Dr. Tommy Frist Jr. and other executives on HCA's management team.

The size of the deal was a U.S. record at the time, but the federal lawsuit in Boston lays out the legal argument that the price tag was kept artificially low. Attorneys for the private equity firms being sued insist they did nothing wrong.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

"nik, you lied so many times in that post that I am at a loss to even pull one of them out for example."

Hey, I've heard that one before! Remember when Democrats said Obama was just so overwhelmed by Romney's "lies" that he couldn't figure out how to answer them?

There's no need for conservatives to make up lies about Obama. The ruins of where he has brought our country lie all around us. We are worse off than ever after four years of his "leadership."

A while back a lib here, speaking for all of you said something like "We haven't had enough of Obama. We like what Obama's doing and we want more of it."

That's not what I'm seeing. Is that what you're seeing?


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

So Hay, what you're saying is that a group of investors can't loan money to expand a farm without first trading all over the world in bogus paper tied to slight movements in comparative currency bundles or other derivatives tied to the credit default swaps held between Barclays and Goldman Sachs.

How did capitalism ever get this far without all the capital tied up in rampant paper speculation? Didn't use to happen - of course, there have always been historical excesses similar to today - the tulips and all.

My point is that our banks and trading firms now deal more in paper than concrete investments. Where as booming economies like Brazil, India, China, etc. build stuff like bridges, roads, factories etc. The reason this happens is the huge tax breaks given to this kind of speculation: capital gains, carried interest, etc.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

When you don't know what you're talking about but just want to be a smart aleck, it's better not to say anything.

You are the only one I have seen extremely upset that taxes will take your few pennies to give to the people that do not have Personal Responsibility but now you want to exempt tax dollars.

You want someone to say John took my money and brought a limo? I think I understand what you are trying to workout in your mind. Spin, Spin on if it makes you feel better.

It helps the Lurkers see we cannot make this stuff up.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

So, I guess no one thinks conspiracy to lower sales prices or blocking rival bidders is a bad thing, then... big business is apparently self-regulating.

I get it... it's only a bad thing to complain about unjust financial actions if you're not one of the 1%... because then you're just envious.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Yea, no one wants to talk about what Obama has done to this country, and what he hasn't done for this country but could have.

They just want to talk about Bain Capital and twenty years ago.

The last four years you'd think posters would be lauding Barack Obama, The One We've Been Waiting For (not my words).

Instead we've heard blaming Bush and trashing Romney with a little crossover time in the middle years.

I'm convinced liberals and Democrats just aren't happy people, I mean--their guy won, why not brag about all he's done?

We've been told over and over that Romney is "toast" and had no chance of winning, so why all the effort wasted on denigrating him?

He's a joke, remember?

Surely OBAMA has done such great things for this country that there's no contest, no reason for ANYONE to vote for anyone other than The One We've Been Waiting For, right?

Maybe, just maybe, there are some people that want to give the opportunity to lead this country to someone that knows how to make money instead of only spending the money of others so they can have the opportunity to take care of themselves and not be dependent on others.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Maybe you should try reading more posts. Several people have had posts recently about what Obama has done that in their eyes was good. The list was very long. And someone else has been posting a list of his accomplishments over and over and over again for the last several months, asking someone to dispute the list. Which, of course, nobody has. Sorry, I do not remember the posters' names.

So, you are completely 100% wrong with this statement:
no one wants to talk about what Obama has done to this country, and what he hasn't done for this country but could have.

The real truth is no conservative wants to respond to the many posts about Obama's accomplishments. The only conclusion one can come to is they cannot.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

That's because his the list of his "accomplishments" is desperate and of little importance to most of the electorate.

People wanted a reasonable unemployment rate, less debt, a restored economy and no terrorist attacks.

People wanted transparency and unification.

That's what he promised.

Obama not only did not deliver what he promised, but he made it worse.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

So, I guess no one thinks conspiracy to lower sales prices or blocking rival bidders is a bad thing, then...

I noticed too.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Sure demi. Walmart. Remember? They used manufacture and sell all American made? Have I shopped at Walmart. Sure. When I can't find a school supply the school demands be a specific brand, for instance. All the time? No way. But there are many who can only afford Walmart. Here's an excerpt from an article that agrees with me. Right? I dunno, but it makes a lot of sense!

"Why is it that America no longer makes things the way we used to? Between 1980 and 2011, the United States lost 7 million manufacturing jobs,[i] many of them middle-class positions that enabled workers to support their families with dignity. Today, the nation's largest employer is not a manufacturer, but mega-retailer Walmart - which is celebrating its 50th anniversary this week. Walmart pays its associates just $8.81 an hour on average.[ii] In this economy, a quarter of full-time working-age American adults are not earning enough money to meet their families' economic needs.[iii] While the decline of American industry was caused by a variety of complex factors, the actions of the nation's biggest corporation and largest retailer play an under-estimated role."

Here is a link that might be useful: Demos article


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

It's a world economy, now, Rob.

We can't continually artificially inflate what workers should be paid when the job they do is worth less.

We have an extremely high corporate tax and increasingly burdensome government intrusions on how businesses can operate which reduces their profit.

Business is business.

If some of you want a business run different than Walmart, start one.

Go ahead, pay those checkers and stockers $35 an hour and pay for their health care.

See how long you stay in business.

People compete with Walmart every day and win.

You just have to be smart enough and determined and you, too, can make a living competing with Walmart.

Perhaps if the illegals weren't taking so many jobs, people would have enough to pay higher prices and not patronize Walmart.

Personally, I think it's a good thing that Walmart is an option--but is is only an option, at the end of the day.

NO one is forced to patronize Walmart.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

I'm not asking to tax them "extremly high corporate tax[es]". I am asking them to be penalized and NOT given refunds if they send their businesses overseas. When did it get a reasonable expectation to be a tax dodger if you're a corporation? Why is that ok? I know the world is getting smaller and smaller, but right now, American workers need help, at home!

It's an excerpt, but a good example (how do you get an almost two billion dollar refund AND a bailout):
"Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion."

Or let's try a company who better not be outsourcing our fighter jets in a global economy:
"Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year."

Here is a link that might be useful: tax dodging companies


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

I don't think the government should subsidize any private businesses, with the exception of temporary emergency measures to insure a food and fuel supply.

I certainly do not think the government should have bailed out GM--they were a failing company for a reason, and as much as I hate to see people lose jobs, the company should buck up and reap what it sowed--poor management, inferior product and poor business decisions which included giving too much to the unions.

*

"When did it get a reasonable expectation to be a tax dodger if you're a corporation?"

Explain what you mean by "tax dodger," please.

Do you mean filing fraudulent tax returns or complying with tax law?


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

or complying with tax law?

You should know better demi since you claim to have worked for the IRS. There are gray areas and the most aggressive filers push to the limit because they have the resources to fight the IRS if an audit is called. And of course, there's strength in numbers. These "cheats" know the IRS cannot audit everyone who being aggressive with their deductions and so they get away with their tactics.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

JZ, your comments have nothing to do with the question I asked rob, which was what did she mean by "tax dodger."

The tax laws are specific and case law has addressed most every scenario of interpretation of tax law, JZ.

Exactly what "grey areas" are you referring to that are illegal but not prosecutable?

Your comments about "cheats" being aggresive with their deductions knowing the IRS cannot audit everyone makes no sense.

Either you file a fraudulent return or you do not.
(I am not referring to honest mistakes many taxpayers make).

Either you are caught filing a fraudulent return or you are not, but will probably be caught sooner or later.

There is no "strength in numbers."

Fraud is fraud and criminal elements fulfilled are criminal elements fulfilled.

It's that simple, JZ.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Those poor, victimized businesspeople. Forced against their will to employ those sneaky illegals. I'm sure they'd try to resist if only they could find a way . . .


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

OK, here we go again...

First you say:
no one wants to talk about what Obama has done to this country, and what he hasn't done for this country but could have.

I then go on to explain that posters have listed what he has done. That's "talking" about what Obama has done.

Your response:
That's because his the list of his "accomplishments" is desperate and of little importance to most of the electorate.

Huh? I guess you don't like the list but that does not negate the fact that we have talked about what Obama has done.

So the premise you started your 14:51 post with was false. Hard to read the rest when the 1st sentence is totally wrong.

Also --
of little importance to most of the electorate.
Right now the popular vote (according to Nate Silver) is 50.1% Obama to 48.8% Romney. So, his accomplishments are important to 50.1% of the electorate. Which is "most".


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

It's called the Wall Street Rule, demi. Look it up if you're interested.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

So, his accomplishments are important to 50.1% of the electorate. Which is "most".

It may be that some in that 50.1% are not that impressed, but Romney/Ryan are too terrifying to even consider voting for. For those who favor a public option in healthcare, more stimulus, no war with Iran, etc. the Romney/Ryan ticket is a non-starter.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

That's true, nancy. I am certainly not thrilled with everything Obama has done. I've liked some. I've not liked some. But, you are so right in that Romney/Ryan is not an option.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Speaking of one of President Obama's accomplishments (at least for those of you who are interested/want to listen/consider it of any importance):

The Dow Jones average today was 13,551, which is very close to 14,087, the all-time highest ever achieved. Shall we just say right away that a) the president had nothing to do with it, b) it would have happened anyway, c) it's meaningless etc. etc.? Or can we actually accept that this is something of great significance less than four years after a cataclysmic economic collapse?


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

I saw something today that says a positive stock market in the months leading up to the election most often favors the incumbent in terms of re-election chances - over any other predictor.

I thought - if those Republicans weren't so greedy, they would try to crash the market to help Romney get elected. But nah, that would impact their PERSONAL fortunes.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

Here is the partial list of President Obama's accomplishments that is "desperate and of little importance to the electorate":

1. Passed Health Care Reform
2. Passed the Stimulus Act
3. Passed Wall Street Reform
4. Ended War in Iraq
5. Began Drawdown of War in Afghanistan
6. Eliminated Osama Bin Laden (and assorted other Al-Quaeda terrorists)
7. Turned Around U.S. Auto Industry, which created 100,000 new jobs
8. Recapitalized Banks (at essentially zero cost to government)
9. Repealed "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
10. Toppled Moamar Gadaffi, with no American lives lost
11. Reversed Bush Torture Policies
12. Boosted Fuel Efficiency Standards
13. Increased Support for Veterans
14. Passed Credit Card Reforms

None of these accomplishments put a dime in the president's pockets and most were designed to help the electorate. Who are the veterans; who are the credit card holders, who are the auto workers, who are soldiers, who are gays, who are the beneficiaries of Wall Street and bank reforms and the stimulus package? Is this not the electorate? Perhaps demi or nikoleta can explain this to me because I must be too obtuse to understand it myself.

I have to ask myself what in Romney's list of past "accomplishments" would qualify him to do anything even approximating this list, since we've basically seen that he was a lousy, non-show governor and in the business world did nothing except to make sure that he increased his wealth, often on the backs of many workers.

As for the "illegal workers" who are taking jobs away from Americans - why would an employer hire someone who can't speak English and has minimal skills over a qualified American? Demonstrably, the answer has been: They're doing jobs that no one else wants to do such as working in the fields, cleaning restrooms, washing dishes in a diner, working as a gardener - the list goes on and on. You can't take away a job from an American unless the American is too lazy to do that job, is on drugs or an alcoholic, or thinks that he shouldn't have to do "dirty jobs" like that. In technical and computer fields, Americans are so undereducated that we need trained foreigners who still have the will and ambition to study hard and make something of themselves to fill the gaps that can't be filled by Americans. This is what I've seen myself and this is what others know to be true. Nikoleta's "eloquent" rhetoric doesn't stand up to close scrutiny in this or many other posts. It amazes me she can't see it herself when she's been proven wrong so many times.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Tue, Oct 16, 12 at 22:19

Lots of people have no problem rejecting factual reality on a routine basis. It's not information that's the deciding influence, it's emotion.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

bboy, I think you're right. On a decision as momentous as who will be the next president of the United States, emotion has to take a way back seat. I wish on this forum there were less emotion on the right and much more paying attention to facts rather than just simply ignoring them or, as about the issue of the president's accomplishments, then switching over to saying that the facts are "desperate and of little importance to the electorate". Oh so weak.


 o
RE: When did it become a crime to....

It isn't a crime to have money. But maybe it should be a crime to have money and be ill informed, uncaring and completely self-absorbed. Mitt Romney has no empathy for anyone but himself and his ilk.


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RE: When did it become a crime to....

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Wed, Oct 17, 12 at 0:07

Actually there is charity in his history but what matters is who he would work for if elected. The Finance-Investment-Real Estate bunch have already gotten too much control.


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