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Just for some of Us

Posted by labrea 7NYC (My Page) on
Thu, Oct 4, 12 at 10:23

I know WILDCHILD I don't speak for the whole gay community.
ANYWAY getting that disclaimer out of the way! Former Clinton White House Adviser David Mixner writes.

"Let's not kid ourselves the debate was not good for our President. But before we start wringing our hands and wishing things were different it is important to remember one thing. [snip] Never have we as a community been so close to full equality and never have we been so close to losing it all in this election. No matter how we would want the world to be this morning, it makes no difference. Our lives, our future and our freedom are at stake in this election. Don't play with it. Don't be high and mighty about it. Don't blame someone else about it. As a dear friend always reminds me, 'It is what it is'. Just do what the courageous and noble LGBT community have always done in the times of adversity. Fight back. Fight hard. Ignore the odds. Show others how it is done. Most importantly take this nation to a new place in its politics, hearts and values. Let's get the job done." - Former Clinton White House adviser David Mixner, writing on his personal blog.

See the happy thinkers with their phony moderates have chosen the voice of their party & the party platform & it's pernicious in this regard.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Just for some of Us

Why in the world would you call me out about the gay community?

Some are liberal and others are conservative. So what???


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RE: Just for some of Us

labrea, I have said everybody's rights are on the table with this election and it is why I am fighting so hard. I have never seen a party so against so many people's rights in my memory.

You could replace, Race, Gender, Women, Seniors in that narrative and it would read the same. Because of that I do feel the President will be re-elected.


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I only mention you as previously you pointed out so correctly I do not speak for the gay community!
So hence I feel comfortable with that disclaimer!
(for posters like you)
So what just about sums it up from where I sit.
That is what so many republican say!
So what if he PROMISES to try to reverse marriage equality in ever state where it's already been achieved. SO WHAT!
Means little or nothing to them hardly worth thinking about!

Yep that is a Republican value! Hardly a conservative one!


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RE: Just for some of Us

As shallow, impatient and misinformed as we might see a part of our population, I think when it comes down to it, a lot of people will be voting based upon what they want for the future.

Equal and other rights and many programs are on the chopping block, war is imminent, and a status quo attitude of continuing the pillaging where Bush left off... is what the Republicans have to offer.

Moving toward peace and equality is what the Democrats offer.

I guess it comes down to the future people want...


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Correction: I may have said you did not speak for the WHOLE gay community. But that is true of most anything. I hardly consider myself a spokesperson for the conservative community. Actually I dislike the whole idea of "community" which you are free to disagree with. We as individuals make up community. Individualism is most important to me. Too often, but not always, the term "community" is used divisively. Community is shared ideals and experiences but my ideological sense of community is to be inclusive rather than exclusionary.


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Since the community I belong to has been used continually by both parties it hardly matters if I'm an individual.
I am a statistic used by Ken Mehlman in 2004 which he apologized later for. SO WHAT!

POLITICO learned when Romney was gearing up for his 2012 run, he made never-before-reported overtures to Ken Mehlman.
Mehlman was so important to Bush's campaign getting him to champion gay ballot initiatives in so many states.

when it reaches the Supreme Court any case will be contingent on the notion of class or group rather than behavior as it had for so many years.
As a class a community we have been pathologized, politicized, castigated, celebrated, pitied & reviled.
You have a religious right & set of organizations that demand nothing less that capitulation form a Republican Candidate.
On the left you have the same one grants rights & equality the other offers continued 2nd class status & shame!


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Why is Ken so important well he's one of the forces that helped get marriage equality passed in NY State. Just another Chelsea QUEER. I still would have shaved his head like they did to the collaborators in WWII.


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I will never align myself with a party of voters who have wished to deny any group of Americans the same rights as that which I have always enjoyed. I don't care if that wish to deny is based upon the Bible - the Bible isn't what rules this country, the constitution is what rules this country.

The repeated attempts, which continue to this day, to deny fellow Americans within the gay community the right to enter into the contract the world calls "marriage" is not tagged on the Democrat party, it is tagged onto the conservative party and it's voters - likewise the attempt to deny the right to all women their constitutional right to choose, making it as hard to impossible as they can to exercise that right.

The conservative party is the party which bases it's attitude on a great deal of social issues with the idea of the *prevention* of human beings the attempt to survive and thrive while persuing happiness in this country. That attitude must change.


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"I will never align myself with a party of voters who have wished to deny any group of Americans the same rights as that which I have always enjoyed. I don't care if that wish to deny is based upon the Bible - the Bible isn't what rules this country, the constitution is what rules this country. "

well said.


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That's what I say, too, Mylab... and I don't know how anyone can support a party that thrives on "divide and conquer" as their bread and butter, and would denigrate a portion of our society for their peace of mind in religious belief.

We are not a theocracy... therefore, this should have been decided a long time ago, with a Federal law giving ALL human beings the same rights.

Joe shouldn't have his life decided by the whims of a political party. He's a human being, just like I am, and we both deserve the same rights and freedoms. Right now, our states are not being fair.


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Ditto on what Mylab said.

Human rights will not be negotiated.


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They are a negotiable commodity!
They are referred to in so many unflattering terms by so many allies of that party & are a continuous insult to anyone who isn't numb to being a punch line in an ongoing republican joke!
From Focus on the Family which Romney praised so much to FRC & AFA & to Romney's own personal contributions to NOM.
A disgusting crew with their institutionalized animosity aka policy/platform!


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Oh, so it's not the "lady parts" that need to vote in this election? teehee Y'all get out and vote! And government, stop intruding in bedrooms. None ya!


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It's all of us who have a lot to lose should the party of "perpetual no" gain the helm. I'm not willing to give up my choices, and I'm not willing to go backwards in gaining equality.


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Wildchild: my ideological sense of community is to be inclusive rather than exclusionary.

I don't understand how one can say that and then vote Republican. I am not referring to Romney. I'm referring to the party. If you read the party platform, it most certainly is exclusionary.


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Atlantic April headline!
Mitt Romney's Gay Spokesman: A Milestone in Republican Politics.
Gee that lasted about 2 seconds! Grenell is still a team player & doesn't let being dissed interfere in his socio/political masochism. Thank you Mit may I have another!


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RE: Just for some of Us

Jillinnj--Both the two major parties and the smaller ones have their divisive factions. You have to pick your battles.

I am not easily swayed by party platforms in a presidential election because my focus is to look for the candidate I think can best fulfill the position he/she is elected to.

I have voted both Democrat and Republican.

For the last year I have voted straight Republican. It's an anti socialist vote and a pro fiscal conservative vote. Nothing more, nothing less. No hidden agendas. LOL

In a presidential race I want someone who will focus on the economy and support our military. I will always choose the one I believe to be a true patriot.

Social issues for select groups whether I am a part of the group or for or against their agenda(s) plays no role in who I want to be the chief executive/commander in chief.

So yes I will put it out once again.

I will vote Republican because I think Romney will be better for this COUNTRY than Obama has been or can be.

I am not at all religious. I am not politically correct. I am not against gay people and I am not a racist. I believe in helping people but I don't do handouts. I am a fiscal conservative who wishes the libertarian party didn't have so many kooks in it so I could support them.

I support unions in the private sector but believe they are dangerous in the public sector.

I don't think Obama is the anti christ and I don't buy into the birther nonsense. I DO believe he is not competent to be president of the United States. He came into the job lacking experience and he doesn't seem to have the desire to learn anything from his time on the job. he's had four years to learn the job. He failed. He needs to go.


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I totally agree about having to pick your battles!

I disagree about Obama's competence. There have been many things I have not been happy about, but I do believe he has set on a course to recovery in a very tough environment.

I also value the social issues very highly. Even if I agreed with everything else the Republican party or nominee stood for, I cannot vote for a party that wants to deny entire segments of our population their civil rights.

I appreciate your post, Wildchild. It is so refreshing to get answers to questions. While we disagree on who we will vote for and why, I appreciate you giving your reasons and being very clear that you haven't fallen for any of the extreme right wing talking points (anti-christ, birther nonsense).


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wildchild, thank you for making your views clear. What I'm not yet clear about is why you would view Mr. Romney as the better leader of our country. He's been found out in numerous lies, changes his viewpoint day to day or depending on whom he's addressing and clearly favors the richest people in the country over anyone else. These are facts that have been reported over and over again. He has alienated numerous governments on his foreign jaunts and that is also well-documented. Barack Obama has brought us back from the brink of economic destruction and the stock market, housing market and job market all reflect this. He's done this with a hostile Congress that we now know vowed to bring him down by not agreeing to any of his policies. His health care plan is one that is followed by most Western countries and has nothing to do with socialism or communism, any more than Social Security or Medicare does. He's simply trying to enable everyone to have an equal chance at adequate health care. What is so horrible about that? Romney's dubious record at Bain also does not speak well for him. That has also been documented at great length. Having said all this, what specifics do you feel raise Mr. Romney above President Obama in terms of being an effective leader of this nation? It's a question that's been asked many times on this forum and I don't think it's ever been answered to my satisfaction. This is your chance to give us specifics and to make us understand what it is about Romney that we seem to have missed.


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This, Jillinnj, was what I hoped the Hot Topics board would be when I first came here long ago. Exchanging ideas and debating from all sides of an issue or issues. But unfortunately the board seldom runs that way. Too many extremists chasing away the moderates. I really believe most of America is in the middle. But you don't see those folks posting much on the internet.


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Wildchild that is the way I vote also I have never voted straight Democratic or Republican until the tea party took over. The Birther just as it sickened McCain it sickened me. He has been the only one I have seen with power come out and say that is stupid. The rest of the party is too afraid that they will primary them if they do not permit them to act like fools.

I have no problem with anyone on this board making stupid parrot talking comments . I expect that they do not have the education, or experience that I would expect of someone at the level of our political officials. The leaders of the country should not have anyone support them in their air space that speaks of any American without respect especially past and present Presidents. The message that sends to the rest of the world is not helpful to our safety.

There was a big uproar coming from the Republican party when Robert De Niro made a off the wall comment about a White first lady. If Obama supporters were saying that Romney was in a cult, which Evangelical call the Mormon faith, or said he did not want to support people that live in the south or trailer park trash Conservative would be screaming "off with his head". I do not want a President that does not have integrity. All the people have to be of value and their rights respected whether they are Gay, straight rich, poor, black or white.

Congress write the laws so I focus on the Congress and do not hesitate to call my Representatives when I am concerned about a bill.

The Supreme court is very important to me at this time because of the make up is to radical with people's rights and I do not want a President to appoint another right wing nut.

The obstruction of the Republican party and the accomplishments that the President has managed to get done makes me think he is better than I thought he was when I voted for him 4 years ago.

I have followed politics a long time and there is no doubt that there is obstruction when a past Republican bill is proposed and because it comes from the President the congress now does not want to pass the bill it leaves no doubt what is happening. This comes from no one telling me what is going on.


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This has ended up being an interesting thread.

I simply see things from another viewpoint Wildchild - and because of that, I no longer vote republican as I had since I cast first vote until the second term run of Bushjr when I jumped ship - but I certainly would if I felt the country was in need of a good republican president (it certainly will be in the future) and an honorable, decent republican was running.

It is my hope that by that time, the republican presidential candidate will run on the platform of inclusiveness for all Americans. I think it will happen but the party and it's politicians has to undergo great and deep changes, and quickly. Any president must have the primary focus on the right of ALL Americans to easily enjoy the rights afforded to them by the Constitution. That is his job.
No President must be exclusionary of any group of other Americans and must be willing to go to the mat to demand those rights be granted - be it civil gay marriage as was afforded to me, and the current right of choice for women in their childbearing years. He must insist that those rights be obtained with ease.

I don't worry about the funding for Defense. I have been a military dependent, worn with pride, for most of my life and understand that, if anything, defense has too much money to spend. We need to cut way back and with what is alloted to defense, practice good funding management.

Even with practically no defense spending - we could still easily wipe out every other country on earth, so on that score, I never worry about the state of our defense. If they don't have unlimited funds (so we could fight two wars with comfort??), these in charge won't perhaps get us into wars we cannot win with no specified goals to meet or no specific departure dates - wars which results in exactly the mess of the decade plus wars we ended up in under Bushjr/Cheney.

With a limited amount alloted requiring great care in spending to function, they would be FAR more careful of how they spend what they have and we, the taxpayer would get much greater value for our tax dollar.
IMO, If we put a fifty cent tax on every gallon of gasoline we purchase every time we went into another police action/war and were stuck with with that gasoline "defense" tax until we had paid that police action/declared war off, we would be a country which was far more careful about when, where and why we put troops in foreign countries -

why? because we the people would angrily demand it. It would be a tax that would *hurt* each one of us in our pocket, so the war would never drift off our radar when election season came around, and because of our focus on it, it would never drift off the radar of the candidate wishing for the vote into office. We would become far more responsible in the way we use our American military members if each of us are also forced to pay for the wars ourselves in a painful way.
That would be a very good thing. The round robin rah-rah flag draped emails about supporting our troops would gain a real, viable meaning with great worth.

My opinion


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wildchild, I hope you'll find some time to answer the questions I posed above. A meaningful discussion involves both sides and I'm still interested in finding out what it is you admire about Mr. Romney and why you feel he would make a better leader than President Obama.


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I think this is one of the most important elections in my lifetime. The parties have never been so apart. The differences are so stark. I am deathly afraid of Romney/Ryan. I find them evil. I look who is funding them and why. Mitt Romney was honest one time in his life, and that was when he was talking to his select group of rich elitists like himself and didn't realize that someone would expose him to the world for what he really is. He said..No, I didn't mean that. Then why did you say it? What DO you believe? Littleone knew him as a moderate governor, and she can't stand him. Now he's far to the right controlled by Rove and the Koch boys, and his choice for veep is almost scarier than Palin.

Any woman, gay, or minority who votes GOP will regret it if they get in. This nation will revert to the 1950's when the SC goes almost totally conservative.


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Ingrid I will be quite busy over the next few days and will not have much time to visit here but I will try to give you the short answer.

I believe in capitalism. I want less government in my life. I will only say that Obama did not even try to work with congress. Just the opposite in my opinion. He had both houses for the first 2 years of his time in office. He couldn't even get his own party to agree on the provisions of the health care plan.

I am not against health care reform but I don't believe in tossing the baby out with the bath water either. If this plan is so great why aren't our leaders under it? HMMMM

DH has worked in the manufacturing end of healthcare before. I fear the research dollars will simply no longer be there under Obamacare. I don't believe we will get the best of the best entering medicine either. Better to become a dentist or a vet. Who wants to take all those years and costs of study to be a government drone?

I don't vote for a candidate because I like him or her. I vote for the one I think will be best for my country. I don't like or dislike Romney. I just think he is a smart astute business man who will make a better prez than who we have.

I have a new grand daughter. I fear for her future if we don't turn our educational system around. I couldn't afford private school for my kids. They went to public school and it was getting pretty bad then. I ran a lot of interference. I am horrified at what I hear from young parents today. The little one may well have to be home schooled. By me if necessary. LOL The horror. But I prefer public schools I just don't like what they are doing to our kids currently.

I like Mitt's plan to bring educational choices back to the parents.

Does he lie? Sure. They all lie to get elected. Does Obama lie? Yep. Sure does. Sure did, Sure will.

But the bottom line is I want this country to have a strong infrastucture. I want someone with a business background to be the chief executive. I want someone the military respects to be the chief commanding officer. I know a lot younger ones in the military. I don't know one who is an Obama supporter although some did vote for Obama in '08. I'll take their word over some disillusioned vet talking outside the local hemp shop. LOL

I don't pay much mind to the single issues. I don't believe we will move backwards in acceptance issues and diversity. The new generation won't let that happen.

If I have a single issue that sways me it would be the second amendment. Without that all others are moot. I will never vote for anyone who infringes on those rights in any way.


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In order for me to support a Republican nominee, there will have to be many changes made to the general Republican platform. As they stand right now, I cannot give them a vote in all good conscience. They do not have the best interests of my fellow Americans or myself in mind.


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RE: Just for some of Us

Wildchild, great post that explains the reasons for my vote, as well.


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For some of us the noble social moderate fiscal conservative is enduring another round of abuse & pain from a party that is plainly in word & statistics unfriendly/hostile it's as simple as that.
Thats why it's only for some of us!


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wildchild, thank you for your answer. I respect your opinions even if I can't agree with them.

I lived in Canada for five years and am therefore well-acquainted with socialized medicine. I saw no downside to it and I believe much of the fear in our country is simply because it's something new. I believe it to be infinitely better than what we have here now. The fact that many people in the government didn't want it is really meaningless, and no doubt many had reasons and agendas of their own.

I don't want to go further because I'm sure you've seen many posts that describe why some of us favor President Obama. I will say though that Romney's history of lying is almost unprecedented and far surpasses President Obama's record. I would find that extremely worrisome and not something to be dismissed lightly.


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I can't respect a nickle & dime operation that is the living embodiment of "you can wait" You can endure another heaping helping of scorn & rebuke, you can be spoken of in legal terms by on our highest most esteemed shining lights Antonin Scalia as an ANAL SEX ACT. I need to watch a budget I take it as a big eff off by an entire collection of citizens & their elected representatives!


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Methinks there is a direct correlation between militarism and warmongering and denying certain members of society basic human rights.

Of course, for to put human rights first, it would need a modicum of integrity.


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wildchild, thank you for your answer. I respect your opinions even if I can't agree with them.

I lived in Canada for five years and am therefore well-acquainted with socialized medicine. I saw no downside to it and I believe much of the fear in our country is simply because it's something new. I believe it to be infinitely better than what we have here now. The fact that many people in the government didn't want it is really meaningless, and no doubt many had reasons and agendas of their own.

I don't want to go further because I'm sure you've seen many posts that describe why some of us favor President Obama. I will say though that Romney's history of lying is almost unprecedented and far surpasses President Obama's record. I would find that extremely worrisome and not something to be dismissed lightly.


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Just for some of us good intentions & happy thoughts aren't enough!

Empty promises is more it. Old manipulative trick, that. It's called stalling.

You're supposed to trade human rights, in other words, humanity for the greater "goods" of exactly what?

Must be them "values" again.


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There's no promise from these Rethugs other than for the mots part we are going to rescind marriage equality in the states were it already exists. That's Romney's promise that's what he;s donated 10,000 of his personal money to in the guise of that Criminal organization NOM.
Criminal in that they still refuse to (after Court orders to) reveal their donor lists


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wildchild, thank you, you reflect my voting as well. Although I am a religious person, that is not reflected in my voting choices. I am for gay marriage, and though I am pro life, I understand that Roe v Wade is the law. My reasons for voting for Romney are the same as yours.


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Yeah we had a fine example of that Conservative thug mentality on display here alright.

Was them "values" again.


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