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Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Posted by david52 z5CO (My Page) on
Sat, Oct 6, 12 at 11:18

I thought this was interesting, and hits the truth.

"Whom do the unemployed blame for being out of work?

By DW Gibson, Published: October 5

When people are out of work, there's a lot of blame to go around. President Obama faults the "failed policies of the past," which he says Mitt Romney would bring back. Romney says Obama had four years to fix things and couldn't.

So Democrats blame Republicans, Republicans blame Democrats, libertarians blame the Federal Reserve, businesses blame regulations, regulators blame Wall Street, and everyone blames China. But whom do the unemployed themselves blame?

I spent the summer and fall of 2011 driving across the country and interviewing jobless Americans. Those out of work do not need belated coaching on where to direct their anger. They began pointing fingers long ago - the moment their jobs were taken away against their wishes, through no fault of their own.

Most people I interviewed knew they shouldn't blame themselves, even if they couldn't resist. Wendy Hamilton, a 33-year-old with a master's degree, lost her job at a nonprofit organization in Omaha just weeks before we spoke.

"I believe it doesn't matter how confident you are, how old you are, what class you're in," she told me. "When you get laid off, there will be a moment of, 'It's my fault.' "

Most emphasized that they did not blame an immediate boss - or, really, anyone they worked with. More often than not, the person delivering the bad news of a layoff did not make the decision.

"It was like this thing out there in the universe had done this to me," said Sue Whetten, a 55-year-old horticulturist from Fort Collins, Colo. She had worked at the botanic gardens in Cheyenne, Wyo., until she lost her job to budget cuts in 2010.

In the global economy, we accept a brand of capitalism that disconnects corporate leaders from the employees affected by their decisions. This geographic, civic and economic separation is what many unemployed people blame for their joblessness.

In DeWitt, Neb., William Petersen patented Vise-Grip locking pliers in 1924. For 60 years, the Petersens owned and operated the plant that manufactured the pliers. They lived in the town of 500 or so, buying uniforms for the little league team, helping build the ballfield and paying for a five-bay firehouse. When the family made tough business decisions, they knew the people who would be affected by them.

"The Petersen family, basically, they were this town," said Randy Badman, a 62-year-old former supervisor at the plant who, on the day he was laid off in 2008, received a security escort across the factory floor where he had worked for 36 years. He told me that he and his wife expected the end when, in 2002, the Petersens announced that the company had been sold to a conglomerate headquartered in another state, governed by shareholders scattered across the globe.

"You could hear this sucking sound in the United States," Badman said. "All these companies going to China and Mexico."

But Badman did not blame his layoff on Chinese workers. He pointed out that low-wage earners in China would probably seek a better quality of life - higher wages, better living conditions - in return for their hard work. Badman, like most of the unemployed I met, knew that workers overseas did not steal his job. He blamed his unemployment on people "at corporate" he couldn't name who, on the day after he was laid off, met with his former subordinates to ask what he did every day. Executives were so disconnected that they no longer knew what they had paid Badman to do.

Sometimes anger and blame are directed at political leadership - anger that supersedes party allegiances or catfights between Candidate A and Candidate B. I found that jobless folks thought Democrats and Republicans had synthesized into a single, unresponsive entity.

In Reno, Nev., I spoke with Scott Cooksley, a 46-year-old former casino restaurant manager laid off in early 2008 as gamblers and home buyers started fleeing the city. Jobless and homeless, he lived in a park off of McCarran Boulevard in nearby Sparks. He told me about two important people in his life: Jesus Christ and Ronald Reagan. The latter might not have agreed with Cooksley's call for government to intervene on behalf of workers.

"My grandparents went through the Depression, and they had the jobs programs, all the social programs," he said. "Maybe all they were doing is giving people a room and food, but gosh darn, they were working, at least they felt better about themselves. Why can't they do that here?"

Jessica Smith shared Cooksley's desire for a government public-works program. She was laid off in 2010 from a sales position at an arts organization in Buffalo shortly after learning that she was pregnant. I met the 32-year-old in Birmingham, Ala., where she had relocated with her husband to be near family.

"Since you got all of these great, talented people that are underemployed or unemployed, they have time to go down to places like Occupy Wall Street and yell about it and maybe try to fix it," she said. "They are angry, but they want to fix it. It's not like, 'Throw out the baby with the bathwater.' It's like, 'How can we help this baby?' "

In Indianapolis, Nancy Lee, 53, was laid off from her position as a construction project manager in 2008. Discouraged by the experience, she left the business.

"I see so many people who have poured their heart and soul into their companies, and their companies just cut them loose," she said. "I'm angry for them, too. You didn't just do this to me, you did this over and over and over to so many people, just so that you could make your stockholders, this little group of people, really happy."

Lee was not defined by her anger. Like many unemployed people I interviewed, she stressed that a corporation's survival depends on employees just as much as it does shareholders and that both deserve equal esteem and financial security.

Jobless Americans are Democrats and Republicans. Whatever their affiliation, many blame our democracy for not confronting the malfunctions of capitalism. Waiting for corporate leadership to reconnect with the demoralized American workforce is not an option.

"Corporate's not going to listen," Badman told me just down the street from the shuttered Vise-Grip plant in DeWitt. "They wouldn't listen to us. But who are we? Who was I? We weren't anybody."

end quote

Now contrast President Obama trying to get actual pay-for-work legislation through congress by hiring teachers, police, and firefighters and helping states when the economy collapsed, trying to get assistance to employ veterans - shot down by the Republicans as an election year publicity stunt.
When Obama tries to pass legislation that gives tax breaks for employing people in this country instead of off-shoring jobs, that gets shot down.

Versus Bain Capital

Here is a link that might be useful: link


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Versus Bain Capital.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Obama wants more teachers, firemen, policemen and anyone else who works for the union. It's not about the people, it's about the unions.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Obama wants more teachers, firemen, policemen and anyone else who works for the union. It's not about the people, it's about the unions.

Now I'm convinced you have a serious comprehension problem GGM. No one with any ability to comprehend anything would have said what you did.

Who in the world do you think teachers, firemen, policemen work for? have you got zero understanding or zero ability to understand that all three of these professions actually do work for the people?

Let's see, when the sane person runs away from the fire, those firefighters run towards the fire, towards the buildings, the forests, the wildfires, and they risk their lives entering those buildings, those woods, etc to be sure that no one is left inside to die. Got that idea GGM, they are working for the people to save their lives, your life, my life, everyone's life regardless of their political ideology or anything else. They don't stop and think first, ask first "are you a union supporter? and if you say NO, they leave you to die.

Those police officers, same thing GGM. They work for the people, risking their lives every day of the week in an attempt to keep you and everyone else safe, no matter what the risk is to their lives. They too don't bother to think or ask if someone supports the union or not. If they say no, they don't walk away and let you die. They don't think about that, they do their job, the job they want to do and risk their lives for you and everyone else. It is not a political ideology that will or will not protect you when the police show up and you are in need.

As the teachers, do you think they check out whether you, as a parent, support the unions and if you don't they do not bother teaching your child well? They work for the people as well, the city or town they teach in. And by the way, the children are the future of any country anywhere in the world and a well educated child is a well educated country that will progress in the world.

The only political ideology in this whole lousy and insane statement that you made is the GOP one that equates unions with fire safety, police safety and education and the idea that if they are part of a union then you need to cut funding to them.

So, when you mouth out, GGM, with such total ignorance in making such statements, remember that your beloved political party, the GOP, they are the ones that want to cut funding for the police, fire, teachers, all because they are union represented and if/when the time comes and you are in need of those fire fighters, those police officers, those teachers, there just might not be enough of them to go around, and in the end you, a friend a loved one could die because of GOP cuts.

When emergencies happen seconds matter, and extra seconds because there weren't enough cops to come to your need, or the closest fire station was closed because there weren't enough fire fighters to staff it and it took extra time to get to you and/or your home, you friends home, well someone will die, will be severely injured, total loss of property and all might have been prevented if the funding was there.

And the education, when there aren't enough teachers because of budget cuts because the good old GOP, that so called Grand old Party, cut funding, well down goes the society in this country, this country and you have no one and nothing to blame but yourself and the GOP.

Ah yes, Romney the education supporter, the one that cut funding in MA, for higher education, for teacher scholarships that made sure MA increased the number of qualified teachers and replaced it with his beloved farce of a scholarship called the "john and abigail adams scholarship.'
Google that one and get a good laugh, but be sure to check out the costs of state universities, and community colleges in MA and see how much they actually cost compared to that wonderful scholarship that pays tuition and tuition only.

GGM you are in dire need of comprehension lessons, both verbally and reading.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Posted by littleonefb z5MA (My Page) on Sat, Oct 6, 12 at 15:49

"Obama wants more teachers, firemen, policemen and anyone else who works for the union. It's not about the people, it's about the unions.
Now I'm convinced you have a serious comprehension problem GGM. No one with any ability to comprehend anything would have said what you did."

Thst's rich. You don't "get" Molly, so SHE has a comprehension problem. I don't think so...

And we must remember: if unions are people, then so are corporations.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

if unions are people, then so are corporations.

Do all employees of a corporation vote on policy decisions? Are the employees able to elect upper management? If so, perhaps the comparison is valid.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

What about those Veterans? They usually vote Republican???


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Posted by patriciae Z7PNW (My Page) on Sat, Oct 6, 12 at 17:22

What about those Veterans? They usually vote Republican???
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They usually do, because the Reps usually "promise" to give them something, whereas, the Dems usually are the ones who actually do.

For instance, Obama wanted to give businesses an incentive to hire vets when they come home.

Romney talks about keeping our military strong, and not cutting it, but he's referring to military EQUIPMENT mfg, so it sounds good, but it doesn't benefit the PEOPLE who are fighting our war. It benefits the WEALTHY big businesses, like GE, Pratt & Whitney, and other who outsource 99% of these factory jobs to China, Mexico and the like.

Actually the outsourcing of the military mfg really peeves me, because those outsourced jobs are paid, by OUR TAX DOLLARS!!!

Basically, the CEOs of these companies send those jobs abroad, skim off the FAT, and laugh all the way to the bank. Meanwhile, we have a larger deficit, and potential GOOD paying jobs are gone.

Sadly, Obama didn't point that out in the debate. Romney made him look like he wants to CUT the military. Mitt, again, misled the people, including the vets.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Well, I know is it has to be someone else's fault, right?


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Yeah we do know that ever freaking company that ever shipped a job overs seas every person who voted to make it possible to ship a job overseas everyone who claimed in the 70's & 80's that the US worker was lazy. All the nickle & dimers who claimed I got mine screw you!
All the UNION WORKERS who voted REPUBLICAN because they though they meant someone elses job not theirs.
All those people who believe sub living wages were good enough for someone else whenever a minimum wage raise came up!


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

When we eliminate employees they often blame us, management, security, co-workers etc - not themselves, or the economy, inflation, regulations, automation, technology, shifting demand, outsourcing, subcontracting, offshoring etc.

We've physically had to restrain some terminated workers that have attacked management, plus many have made threats of violence, vandalism etc.

This is likely why one of the workers in the article received a "security escort".

That said, the economy and worker performance issues have always been among our top reasons for worker termination.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Since a good portion of jobs are not connected to any union, how can anyone read David's opening article and throw out that unions are to blame? How does that even make sense? It doesn't.

Greed is the real culprit, and it's alive and well, as it always has been.

"... many blame our democracy for not confronting the malfunctions of capitalism. Waiting for corporate leadership to reconnect with the demoralized American workforce is not an option."

Capitalism cannot function properly without certain boundaries, without ethics, and greed is responsible for tearing down the boundaries needed. Since greed and ethics are within select human beings, we have only to look as far as those who would purposely tear down the boundaries that keep capitalism functioning properly. Those are the persons to blame for our failing economy, for our unemployment, and for our nation's poverty.

Without ethics, there can be no reconnection with our workforce. Greed keeps those potential 'job creators' from creating anything but more greed. There is no reinvestment in America by the private sector, no trickle down.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Aside from small businesses, I see the article talking more about corporate layoffs - the factory gets sold/and or management changes, the new owners have no regard what-so-ever for the employees. They aren't assets, they're an expense. We've seen this countless times - keeping the staff on long enough to dismantle the factory and send it to China.

Its the disassociation between capital and management, the money and the people. Fifteen-20 years ago, there was some kind of fad going around corporate America where they'd hire slash and burn managers who would come in and cut spending drastically which would boost earnings for a year or two, that management would move on with a fat bonus to the next company - and then the companies that they'd 'modernized' took a serious dive.

Both of my brothers lost their jobs in that capitalist management fad. Some hotshot comes in, looks at the salaries, fires the most expensive people, cuts all kinds of benefits, gets paid a bundle, leaves. And a year later, they owners are back asking if they want to return to work, you know, we needed you. But sorry, they'd moved on. .As the article pointed out, one of the guys who was fired, his manager didn't even know what his job was.

One of my Dads good friends was a career employee of United Airlines - on that scale, corporate HQ hires a 'firing squad' who came to the Denver office with their own security guards and fire people, with the escort out of the building - in this case, they went with him to his desk and company car as he cleaned out his personal stuff - he was one of 120 people fired like that.

And here we are with Bain Capital, the other side of that coin, buying and selling companies (and lives) like so many Monopoly properties, making hundreds of millions hand over fist. We have the CEO of General Electric named as a Jobs Czar in the Obama Admin, raking in a mega-million salary and bonuses, bragging about paying people $10 a hour in some new factory in Tennessee - because there were plenty of people who showed up at that salary so hey, more money for himself and the shareholders.

As for blaming the economy, the public employees - the teachers, fire men, and police that are laid off, they realize what thats about.

Its a failure of the government to control the excesses of capital. I can't think of a better example than the Bush recession with the Wall Street centered/orchestrated money orgy, the collapse, and the subsequent trillion dollar bail outs - this is a completely bi-partisan effort.

Now, Obama wants some feeble attempt to quit giving corporations tax breaks to send jobs over-seas. No, you can't take a deduction to move a factory to China. Coupled with tax incentives to move jobs here - just like all those states/municipalities do to attract foreign businesses to set up shop in their area - waive property taxes, etc.

And Romeny now comes across as some sort of savior? HOW? Further deregulation? Getting rid of Obamacare?


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Who would you blame after these words came out of your president's mouth?

"So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; its just that it will bankrupt them because theyre going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas thats being emitted."

Who do you think Americans who used to make a living in the oil industry blame for denying permits for US drilling, while underwriting drilling...for Brazil?

Who do you think unemployed engineers blame for bringing in lower paid foreign engineers on H1B visas?

Who do you think unemployed Americans blame for handing out work permits that assist illegal aliens in taking their jobs?

Who do you think unemployed Americans blame for our too large labor pool, artificially enlarged by millions of illegal aliens working under the table, paying no taxes, and sucking up resources from people who do?

Who do you think Americans blame for being passed over for jobs because folks of their gender, racial or ethnic background already have too many jobs?


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Recently I was talking with several workers that lost their jobs when their employer sold his business. The new owners eliminated over 100 workers since they employ much more automation and demand much higher performance from workers.

They seemed to blame the former owner that sold out due to financial and health issues.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Who do you think unemployed engineers blame for bringing in lower paid foreign engineers on H1B visas.
I agree one of the most abused practices in the US.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Who do you think Americans who used to make a living in the oil industry blame for denying permits for US drilling, while underwriting drilling...for Brazil?

First of all, you might look up the number of permits and active drills in North Dakota, where the companies have decided - on their own - that the risk/reward calculation is better than off-shore rigs. As for underwriting US drilling companies and US banks working offshore Brazil, do you suppose that its the banks and drilling companies behind this, or just an Obama whim?

Who do you think unemployed engineers blame for bringing in lower paid foreign engineers on H1B visas?

Oh, that must be Obama too. I mean, thats why he keeps giving out student loans and pushing math and science education pushing for teaching creationism, because a stupid workforce is a cheap workforce, and everybody knows those brown people work for cheap.

Who do you think unemployed Americans blame for handing out work permits that assist illegal aliens in taking their jobs?

Obama. Must be. Can't possibly be corporate America, intentionally driving down labor costs to increase their profits while destroying American livelihoods.

"Who do you think unemployed Americans blame for our too large labor pool, artificially enlarged by millions of illegal aliens working under the table, paying no taxes, and sucking up resources from people who do?

Has to be Obama again. Can't possibly be corporate America. And so we can conclude here that the person to vote for is the guy who made hundreds of millions by buying and selling companies like packs of gum along with milking the US income tax system for all its worth.

Markjames, there is a certainly a significant segment of the not particularly well educated or skilled workforce out there that can't grasp any concept beyond a foreman/boss and themselves. They're incapable of recognizing the impacts of world trade, competition from dirt-wage, subsidized goods from some other country, and if they can get past blaming their foreman, they blame Obama because Socialism.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Regardless of their education and skills, much of the population isn't self critical. Everything is someone else's fault.

Many people are unemployed, under-employed, or unemployable due to faults of their own, often numerous faults, but they won't change as they refuse to change, or don't recognize their numerous shortcomings as they're not self critical.

Much of our population also over-estimates the value of their their skills, especially those with low demand skills, or skills with a large over-supply of job seekers.

Many American workers are competing with technology within the United States - computerization, automation, communications, self service, specialized tools and equipment etc.

Many are also competing with better performing American workers. Many jobs once performed by 2, 3 or more workers are no performed by a single higher performing multi-tasking worker performing multiple duties.

Many job seekers are also competing with dozens, even hundreds of better qualified American workers competing for a single job opening.

The job market is constantly changing, but the education, certifications, licenses, knowledge, skills and experience of much of the population hasn't changed with the market.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

"Who do you think unemployed Americans blame for handing out work permits that assist illegal aliens in taking their jobs?"

If you are issued a work permit, you are NOT illegal.

One group holds responsibility for the current state of the US - baby boomers. And I'm guessing that pretty much includes most who post here.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

When I'm talking to my kids, cousins, and their guests about careers, I try to point out that they should consider if the skills they're learning can be out-sourced to some guy in India making $400 a month. Things like cleaning data from DNA sequencing - currently a bottleneck, people who can do this are paid pretty well and there is plenty of work, but how long before these files are sent somewhere else where an army of low paid computer jocks do it? Then what?

Computer skills - its not just Excel, Word, and what not, its programming the things to do everything under the sun - robots to medical statistics - again how much of this can be done somewhere else, cheaper?

So as long as the country encourages corporate America to freely outsource jobs - often to countries whose official policies - tax, currency exchange, lax labor laws, etc - are designed for companies to relocate their business there, and we don't, we lose.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Posted by markjames (My Page) on Mon, Oct 8, 12 at 8:19

Regardless of their education and skills, much of the population isn't self critical. Everything is someone else's fault.
Many people are unemployed, under-employed, or unemployable due to faults of their own, often numerous faults, but they won't change as they refuse to change, or don't recognize their numerous shortcomings as they're not self critical.

Much of our population also over-estimates the value of their their skills, especially those with low demand skills, or skills with a large over-supply of job seekers.

Many American workers are competing with technology within the United States - computerization, automation, communications, self service, specialized tools and equipment etc.

Many are also competing with better performing American workers. Many jobs once performed by 2, 3 or more workers are no performed by a single higher performing multi-tasking worker performing multiple duties.

Many job seekers are also competing with dozens, even hundreds of better qualified American workers competing for a single job opening.

The job market is constantly changing, but the education, certifications, licenses, knowledge, skills and experience of much of the population hasn't changed with the market.
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You've made some valid points.

I would like to add that, generally, people DO NOT take responsibility for their actions, but not ALL.

However, how many times should one re-train themselves, esp people over fifty? I know many who were caught in the last Recession an had to get re-trained in their late forties, and the time before that.

Most of this happens because jobs go overseas. If their current employer provided retraining, instead of out sourcing WE wouldn't have this problem, or better yet, NOT allowed to outsource.

I find that CONVENIENTLY, some large companies blame things on Recession, but the truth is that they are cash rich and making a ton of money. They are squeezing more work out of the employees, with many workers having to work 60-70 hour weeks, for 40 hour pay, while the companies use the "Recession"(lie about being poor) as an excuse for letting people go, and making the remainder fearful of losing their jobs. People work very hard today, with "skeleton" crews. It's called-disgusting.

Small businesses cannot afford to pay a lot, and most do not provide healthcare, hence the UNDEREMPLOYED. So all this talk from the politicians about growing small businesses is BS, because they don't want to STOP the big businesses to outsource.....and the BIG ONE- they don't make laws to keep the peoples' TAXDOLLAR JOBS in the States!!!!!

We need small businesses, because the large Cos moved out, but they cannot afford to give you healthcare. This is why we need a SINGLE-PAYOR ins system.

Some of the blame is on the individual, but MOST is on OUTSOURCING and our politicians sleeping with the big businsses.

I actually think that we should start govt run health clinics (managed privately) for reg people, similar, but not exactly like the VA. At least that would create jobs, and people would get good healthcare ($ coming from the people, for the people). We wouldn't need Obamacare, which really is nothing more than having to pay for PRIVATE-FOR-PROFIT ins.A LOT of TWEAKS would have to be instituted so it would be run efficiently, and not for profit. I know it's doable. I am an idealist, what can I say?

This brings me to an interesting thought: I do not understand WHY the Reps are so upset with Obamacare? Their SLEEPING PARTNERS (the private ins) will be making a TON of money.Is it that little thing called PRE-EXISTING conditions will be covered? I honestly don't understand the Reps fighting Obamacare, cuz it benefits the ins, primarily, thanks to the Dems ALLOWING, or should I say WORKING with the Reps in drafting this ins.

Anyway, you would be surprised how many doctors TODAY would want to work for a salary with BONUSES, instead of dealing with the current BEAUROCRACY, and for profit ins....
The only ones who want the current system, are the ones who continue to have FUTILE hope that "things will change" with the private ins for the better....and the ones who are brainwashed by our Republican friends ;)


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

"However, how many times should one re-train themselves, esp people over fifty? I know many who were caught in the last Recession an had to get re-trained in their late forties, and the time before that."

In a dynamic,ever changing world, you adapt, learn and train as often as it takes! In the post 1990 environment, one needed to CONTINUALLY train to stay in tune with the working climate. Those who relied on their 1970s and 1980s skills, combined with business practices of those decades, AND maintained the attitude of complacency, are the ones struggling now. And the ones struggling brought it on themselves IMO.

I started a new job last month. I was hired to that job because I have a unique set of skills, skills I didn't have at all 6-7 yrs ago. I'm also formally learning now as well, so that I can stay employable if I choose. My responsibility in staying employed is to have skills that make me employable. Yes, my responsibility.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

"However, how many times should one re-train themselves, esp people over fifty? I know many who were caught in the last Recession an had to get re-trained in their late forties, and the time before that."

In a dynamic,ever changing world, you adapt, learn and train as often as it takes! In the post 1990 environment, one needed to CONTINUALLY train to stay in tune with the working climate. Those who relied on their 1970s and 1980s skills, combined with business practices of those decades, AND maintained the attitude of complacency, are the ones struggling now. And the ones struggling brought it on themselves IMO.

I started a new job last month. I was hired to that job because I have a unique set of skills, skills I didn't have at all 6-7 yrs ago. I'm also formally learning now as well, so that I can stay employable if I choose. My responsibility in staying employed is to have skills that make me employable. Yes, my responsibility.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

lmc01,

Congrats on having a unique set of skills. What are they?

I have said that the younger generation needs to get degrees in math, science and technology...This would eliminate a lot of the HB-1 Visas, and hopefully the jobs would go to the US people.


You are correct is IS your responsibilty to retrain, if you choose so. However, if a company where you worked for many years decides to leave overnight and you are that employee, who used to work 50-60 hours weekly (no time, or energy left for school), you cannot do what your suggesting-train yourself....when? In your sleep?

How old are YOU? Just wondering.

As one ages, the energy goes down. I hang out with mostly OLDER people than myself ( I always did), and many are NOT up to relearning another skill esp if they get into their late fifties, and they are totally demoralized if they have done it a few times, and retirement is around the corner, and losing their jobs means BEING BROKE. Many start having health issues, knee, hip, arthritis...Either their prev jobs caused the quick deterioration, or NATURE already took over.

What can you, possibly, train for in 6 months? Because at 55 yo you don't have the LUXURY of being a "professional student". Most 1 yr training schools are for PHYSICAL jobs, not for the 55 yo crowd. Plus, the next job will pay LESS because they will be new at it...that is IF they get a job at that age!

Why should a company hire an old person, who is slower and not as sharp as a 23 yo, and cannot afford to work for peanuts, because of their obligations from years ago?

I have done HR and can tell you that other than "consulting jobs", the 55 yo peeps are physically and many times mentally "spent", thanks to have given their BLOOD to their prev Co.

The 55 yo plus employees are RELIABLE, as comapred to the later generations, but they do best if they continue working at the same job, because it is A LOT easier to learn a little more than a totally NEW job, and there is no guarantee at THAT age to EVER get another job. Those are the facts, Jack!


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

"If you are issued a work permit, you are NOT illegal."

Of course you are illegal. The law says you are illegal. Obama is simply substituting our laws with whatever rules he wishes to dictate.

Obama dictated that a million illegals with absolutely no right to be inside this country in the first place deserved work permits. We now know that when Obama talks about everybody "getting a fair shot" he's not talking about Americans at all. It's code for illegal aliens.

Now who do you think smart people who can't find work in their own country will blame for handing out a million more work permits to illegal aliens?


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

"In a dynamic,ever changing world, you adapt, learn and train as often as it takes! In the post 1990 environment, one needed to CONTINUALLY train to stay in tune with the working climate. Those who relied on their 1970s and 1980s skills, combined with business practices of those decades, AND maintained the attitude of complacency, are the ones struggling now. And the ones struggling brought it on themselves IMO."

Bingo! You can't be complacent and you can't just sit back and rest on your laurels.

Last April, when 75% of our IT staff was laid off, it wasn't because anyone wanted to get rid of them - they were laid off because they steadfastly refused to learn anything new or even take the initiative to learn on their own.

Because they wouldn't learn or, in one or two cases, really seemed to lack the capacity to learn, 25% of the existing staff was shouldering 100% of the work, while the 75% complained loudly that they weren't going to do this, wouldn't do that, didn't understand. Why wasn't someone taking them by the hand and giving them one-on-one training time?

But you know how it is. In this day and age, there is absolutely no excuse, especially in IT, for remaining unlearned and igorant. Considering all of the available information on the web, free or cheap tutorials, free or trial software that you can download to your desktop in order to practice working with new technologies -- you just have to be utterly clueless to pretend that you don't have opportunities to learn new technologies.

You could see the handwriting on the wall - adapt or go. In a few short weeks we knew who was going to stay and who was going to go.

One woman, whom I adored as a friend and coworker, asked me how i learned "all this stuff". My answer was: "I wasn't born knowing this. Initially I bought books and practiced with some desktop software. Now you can find tutorials on the web. Sometimes they're free, sometimes they have a price tag. How much is your job worth? Is it worth $75 for an online tutorial to get you started? I purchased that $75 introductory tutorial which clarified things at the 25,000-foot level and really got me off the ground."

For example, you can download the old Bell Labs korn shell (Uwin) on your windows desktop and get familiar with how it works. Go online and find a tutorial, then play with the commands. This will make it easy for you to work with the *nix servers.

Honest to goodness, she looked at me like I had 2 heads. Books? Online tutorials? Pay? Take a course? These were foreign concepts, apparently. I wanted to shake her and tell her to save herself. It's frustrating, and a few times i got angry with people for not trying to learn.

I liked those folks and was sad that they had to go, but they really sealed their own fate by being so contrary, by being unwilling to learn anything new without being pushed, pulled, or prodded. Even then they just didn't bother.


 o
RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

When I worked for a plumbing and heating company many years ago, I had to call in sick and/or duck on-call hours as I was often traveling Upstate, Downstate or out-of-state to take manufacturer certification courses and advanced training courses.

I was often one of the first in the state to take the certification courses and the only tradesmen in the area to take the courses.

One time my employer informed me of a new equipment manufacturer, that they were thinking of carrying their product line, plus sending us for certification training.

What was funny is they weren't new. They'd been in business for several years. I'd been installing their equipment and received certification training before it hit the supply house channels years later.

Whenever new and interesting products and equipment would come to market, I'd buy them and install them in my own properties, or give customers a substantial discount so I could get experience with the products and assess their value, performance etc.


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RE: Who the unemployed blame for unemployment

Posted by lionheart z5 NY (My Page) on Mon, Oct 8, 12 at 16:14
Because they wouldn't learn or, in one or two cases,

really seemed to lack the capacity to learn, 25% of the existing staff was shouldering 100% of the work, while the 75% complained loudly that they weren't going to do this, wouldn't do that, didn't understand. Why wasn't someone taking them by the hand and giving them one-on-one training time?

**************************************************
You will always have a group of people who are happy at pushing a button repeatedly, and never learn anything new, but you cannot categorize ALL people that way. Even in college, you must have the BOTTOM 80% of the class that are just getting by to earn a credit for the course.

Again, I know a lot of 55 yo plus people who are displaced. Once that happens to them, it's a tough going to get another job or to learn a new skill QUICKLY. It's like a biological/retirement clock ticking to get a new job...

The funny thing is we ALL are going to get there.


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