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Equal pay for women

Posted by jmc01 (My Page) on
Tue, Oct 16, 12 at 21:44

Romney's answer is pathetic. This answer alone will disqualify him as a candidate for any working woman.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Equal pay for women

.......he had "binders full of women".

ML


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RE: Equal pay for women

...and he wanted to make sure his female employee was able to get home in time to cook dinner!


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DH and I looked at each other when he said "binders of women". WTF?

He really looked bad during that answer.

In this household, it's the MAN that cooks dinner for the family.

He really needs to get out more and understand what American families are doing these days.


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RE: Equal pay for women

No, you weren't listening.
He said his women staff with children came to him and told
him they couldn't work til 8:oopm because they wanted to be home by 5:00pm to cook for their children and spend time with their children.

Thats what mothers want to do!

Then he went on to say he believes in flexible hours for
women. Thats what women want right?

Obama didn't want to get into the womens pay thing.

His women in the WH are second class citizens.


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Obama didn't want to get into the womens pay thing.

Remind me what Romney said about improving women's pay inequality?

Other than getting them home on time ... I didn't hear anything from him addressing that.


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Who the heck should have to work until 8 pm, man or woman? Was Romney running a sweatshop?

"His women in the WH are second class citizens".

Citywoman, do you have a concrete basis for making that statement? You really need to give a reason for making such a provocative assertion if you want to have any kind of credibility.


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RE: Equal pay for women

Romneybindersfullofwomen is now a Facebook page with over 115,000 likes.

Was this another quote of his?

"We're going to have employers that are so anxious to get good workers that they are going to be anxious to hire women."

Wow. As if they would not have hired women otherwise ... keep talking, Mitt.


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Who the heck should have to work until 8 pm, man or woman? Was Romney running a sweatshop?

Lots of people.

Right now I am working a company through their year end. For accountants, year end is one of those "special" times when people work late.

People who have important deadlines that need to be met, seasonal workers, business... many many people.

and he wanted to make sure his female employee was able to get home in time to cook dinner!

Work hours are often a selling point in a compensation package these days. There are lots of women who have this kind of arrangement with their employer and the employer is willing to accommodate.

Vacation, working hours, personal days... all very popular negotiation points and I find that women are the ones most likely to negotiate for schedules that fit around their children. Men will do it too, as family time becomes more important to hem... but it's still very much the women who value it more.


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RE: Equal pay for women

"No, you weren't listening.
He said his women staff with children came to him and told
him they couldn't work til 8:oopm because they wanted to be home by 5:00pm to cook for their children and spend time with their children.
Thats what mothers want to do!"

Yes, I was listening.
And that's what working "parents" want to do.

"Who the heck should have to work until 8 pm, man or woman? Was Romney running a sweatshop?"

ingrid, my sentiments exactly!


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susan & ingrid
stroll back up and read hamiltong's post.

I have also worked in a big corp. and she nailed it.

It is mostly mothers who worry about being home for their children. Mothers are natural born caretakers.

Romney understood that very well.
He addressed that point....Obama didn't.


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citywoman, I asked you this question earlier:

Obama didn't want to get into the womens pay thing.

Remind me what Romney said about improving women's pay inequality?


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Posted by susanilz5 z5 IL (My Page) on Tue, Oct 16, 12 at 23:02

"...and he wanted to make sure his female employee was able to get home in time to cook dinner!"

...for which the kids were probably grateful. What he said was :

"Now one of the reasons I was able to get so many good women to be part of that team was because of our recruiting effort. But number two, because I recognized that if you're going to have women in the workforce that sometimes you need to be more flexible. My chief of staff, for instance, had two kids that were still in school.

She said, I can't be here until 7 or 8 o'clock at night. I need to be able to get home at 5 o'clock so I can be there for making dinner for my kids and being with them when they get home from school. So we said fine. Let's have a flexible schedule so you can have hours that work for you."

This is not a good thing because...?


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RE: Equal pay for women

His keepers wouldn't let him speak to this he's owned by the CHAMBER OF COMMERCE!


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Obama didn't want to get into the womens pay thing.

He spoke of the Lily Ledbetter Act and why he regarded that legislation as important.

"His women in the WH are second class citizens".

First the assertion that Valerie Jarrett was a female Svengali, now the above.

If the reference is to salaries -- the equal pay of the thread title -- that is determined the General Schedule pay scale. No difference in pay according to gender.


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He never answered the question. He's owned by the chamber of congress. Total silence. As I said on the other thread, my daughter makes considerably more than her husband who also has a great job and good salary but she hasn't made a meal in years, and he cooks a gourmet one every night for whenever she shows up.


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Thats what mothers want to do!

This is not a good thing because...?

Working mothers want and deserve comparable compensation to their male counterparts.

Romney never answered and he needs the women's vote. It's an important issue but instead of responding he used the time to give himself props.

Elvis, his answer has no bearing on anyone other than the few that work directly for him. It will not stop anyone who wants their employees to work late from insisting they do so. So yes, it is a good thing but so would knowing where he stands on pay equality.


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Romney continues to be a full size blowhard:

From our friends at factcheck.org...

Jane Edmonds, former secretary of Massachusetts� Department of Workforce Development, cherry-picked statistics to make Romney�s record on appointing women to government positions look better than it is. She wrongly said that the percentage of women in senior-level government jobs went up under Romney, but the figure actually declined slightly.

Edmonds: One area where he made a positive difference is in improving the representation of women in senior positions in Massachusetts State Government. Before Gov. Romney took office in 2003, women were significantly underrepresented among top roles in government, with 52 percent of the population but just 30 percent of the jobs.

Over the next two and a half years, 42 percent of the new appointments made by Governor Romney were women.

Edmonds� figures are correct, and they are touted on the website of MassGAP (Massachusetts Government Appointments Project), a bipartisan coalition of women�s groups created in 2002 to increase the number of women appointed to top government positions. As Edmonds said, women made up 52 percent of the state�s population, but in September 2002, they held only 30 percent of top government positions. And 42 percent of Romney�s appointments � 14 of 33 appointments � were women during his first two and a half years as governor. But then the percentage of women being appointed to these jobs slipped, according to a 2007 study by MassGAP and the Center for Women in Politics and Public Policy at the University of Massachusetts Boston.

Over Romney�s entire tenure as governor, the percentage of female appointments was 31 percent. And overall, the percentage of women in senior-level government positions declined slightly, to 27.6 percent, according to the study.

The study said the MassGAP effort showed "promising" impact with the high percentage of Romney�s early appointments, but the later appointments didn�t show "a continued commitment to the selection of women for high-level posts." The gains for women between 2002 and 2006 "were elusive," the study said. "[W]omen at the end of the Romney administration did not hold a higher percentage of senior-level positions than when he took office."


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Here's more about Romney's binders full of women.

What actually happened was that in 2002 -- prior to the election, not even knowing yet whether it would be a Republican or Democratic administration -- a bipartisan group of women in Massachusetts formed MassGAP to address the problem of few women in senior leadership positions in state government. There were more than 40 organizations involved with the Massachusetts Women's Political Caucus (also bipartisan) as the lead sponsor.

They did the research and put together the binder full of women qualified for all the different cabinet positions, agency heads, and authorities and commissions. They presented this binder to Governor Romney when he was elected.

I have written about this before, in various contexts; tonight I've checked with several people directly involved in the MassGAP effort who confirm that this history as I've just presented it is correct -- and that Romney's claim tonight, that he asked for such a study, is false.

I will write more about this later, but for tonight let me just make a few quick additional points. First of all, according to MassGAP and MWPC, Romney did appoint 14 women out of his first 33 senior-level appointments, which is a reasonably impressive 42 percent. However, as I have reported before, those were almost all to head departments and agencies that he didn't care about -- and in some cases, that he quite specifically wanted to not really do anything. None of the senior positions Romney cared about -- budget, business development, etc. -- went to women.

Secondly, a UMass-Boston study found that the percentage of senior-level appointed positions held by women actually declined throughout the Romney administration, from 30.0% prior to his taking office, to 29.7% in July 2004, to 27.6% near the end of his term in November 2006. (It then began rapidly rising when Deval Patrick took office.)

Here is a link that might be useful: binders


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RE: Equal pay for women

When he gave his answer, my son and I just stopped saying anything, doing anything. We turned to each other, and BOTH of our jaws dropped. Literally. Even a young man knows better than for him to have said what he did.


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His answer was outrageous in this day and age. To me it was extremely patronizing.

Equality in the work place is not just about equal wages for equal work. It's also about equal opportunity for advancement. One moment he talks about not having enough women at cabinet level and senior posts and the next moment he talks about women getting home in time to make dinner.

As a career woman (mother and wife) I can tell you that people holding senior positions don't punch clocks, you do what needs to be done. Finding a balance between home and work can be difficult but it's the woman's job to figure out the path best for her. Just pay her the same d@mn money and you'll see how resilient she can be!


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Out of touch ... that's the impression he keeps reinforcing.


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I mean, if chicks have to go home early to feed their kids, why shouldn't they get paid less?

/off on an Hawaiian golf junket
//meeting clients
///expense account


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David got it! That's exactly what Romney was saying.


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Wed, Oct 17, 12 at 13:29

Who is CW2012 is speaking for.

Mothers are natural born caretakers..

He said his women staff with children came to him and told him they couldn't work til 8:00pm because they wanted to be home by 5:00pm to cook for their children and spend time with their children.

That's what mothers want to do!

Then he went on to say he believes in flexible hours for women. That's what women want right?

uh...no, that's not right.


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mom, you're right. I know plenty of mom's who work past 5 and the dads are at home cooking. What we want is to be paid the same as anyone else. There is no reason to look at gender, race, or anything else which is limiting when it comes to pay. We all need money last I checked. At least, I don't think I go to work because I find it fun?! Well, it's not only fun, I do also get paid money.


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Women as 'natural caretakers' is just old cultural bias.

One of my reasons for having hope for humanity is seeing more and more men take responsibility for their childrens care-not just bringing home a pay check. I have seen fathers at the dentist with their kids. I see dads taking their kids for walks holding the hands of toddlers and pushing strollers. I see them in grocery stores buying food with kids in tow. In the past men did what they chose to do and women did what had to be done. I am seeing some change.

That doesnt address equal pay of course, or glass ceilings. Ledbetter was certainly a necessary step in the right direction.


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Wed, Oct 17, 12 at 14:45

....And I see young women, and men, PLANNING their families.

The fastest way into poverty is to be a teen mother, or father.

Not having access to contraception will be a tragedy for so many young people.


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We might see equal pay for women when we see equal treatment for men so they can take off to take the kids to the doctor, or get supper on the table, etc.

Right now, most jobs demand that men put the job first. Not all, but most. The woman is the one that is expected to handle the job and home tasks too. Unfortunatly, this puts her in the position of be the less depndable employee.


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No equal pay for women is just one of the problems for women if Romney gets elected.

Here's thought:
If a woman gets pregnant and has an abortion, she will be prosecuted as it will be a crime. She'll rot in jail. Meanwhile the SPERM donors (men) continue to rule the world-the Romneyworld.


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I think his religion has played a big part in his attitudes. It strikes me that the Mormons put the nuclear family above all else but God, and that it is preferable to have the wife at home. He is right in sync with the teapartiers and anyone wishing for the 50's again. It boggles my mind that so many do not have a problem with his attitudes towards women, let alone the 47%.


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"We might see equal pay for women when we see equal treatment for men so they can take off to take the kids to the doctor, or get supper on the table, etc."

Agnes, It's already that way in large business.


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"I know plenty of mom's who work past 5 and the dads are at home cooking"

That's great--but lots of households don't have a partner at home, or a servant, to do that. As a practical matter, more women than men probably really want to be home if dinner is to be made, simply because more women than men are single parents. Also, Romney didn't say that the employee wanted to be home exclusively for the purpose of making dinner. She wanted to spend time with her children. No one else can do that for her. For that matter, making more money still wouldn't have given her that time with her kids. Probably less, as high paying jobs often require more time at work.

So Romney didn't worry about parsing every word to make sure it was PC. How refreshing.

As far as equal pay goes, neither candidate addressed that. The president did mention that he supported the Ledbetter proposal, but it failed. Once again, he didn't get it done.

Face it; no one can be all things to all people. Neither candidate can.


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The president did mention that he supported the Ledbetter proposal, but it failed.

Failed how?

WASHINGTON : President Obama signed his first bill into law on Thursday, approving equal-pay legislation that he said would "send a clear message that making our economy work means making sure it works for everybody."

Mr. Obama was surrounded by a group of beaming lawmakers, most but not all of them Democrats, in the East Room of the White House as he affixed his signature to the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, a law named for an Alabama woman who at the end of a 19-year career as a supervisor in a tire factory complained that she had been paid less than men.

After a Supreme Court ruling against her, Congress approved the legislation that expands workers' rights to sue in this kind of case, relaxing the statute of limitations.

"It is fitting that with the very first bill I sign - the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act - we are upholding one of this nation's first principles: that we are all created equal and each deserve a chance to pursue our own version of happiness," the president said.

He said was signing the bill not only in honor of Ms. Ledbetter - who stood behind him, shaking her head and clasping her hands in seeming disbelief - but in honor of his own grandmother, "who worked in a bank all her life, and even after she hit that glass ceiling, kept getting up again" and for his daughters, "because I want them to grow up in a nation that values their contributions, where there are no limits to their dreams."

snip end quote

Or do you consider that failure?

Here is a link that might be useful: linky


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Reading these post from some and they appear to be from women that think that we are still in the 50s and have no idea that there are PROFESSIONAL WOMEN. That actually went to college and completed their education with degrees and all those good things.

Would you be surprised.....
-They go on business trips they are not running home at 4 to cook.
-They can have a career and have children and work past 5 pm.
-They want equal pay just like men.
-It is not men that is allowed to work at a job they love and not rush home to cook and clean.
-All Women are not Secretaries, File Clerks, Receptionist, hotel housekeeping cleaners
-Women are in Board Rooms

Surprise, Surprise my child also grew up and is a PROFESSIONAL WOMAN and she did not starve to death. She is able to have a family and a profession just like her mom was able to do what she loved. I set that example.

Are you surprised?

If you want to be a stay at home Mom, or have a lower level job there is nothing wrong with that but if a woman does not want that life she should have the choice with the same pay as a man that is doing the same work.


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"Surprise, Surprise my child also grew up and is a PROFESSIONAL WOMAN and she did not starve to death. She is able to have a family and a profession just like her mom was able to do what she loved. I set that example.

Are you surprised?"

If you are going to say you were an English teacher, yes; I would be surprised.


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Reading these post from some and they appear to be from women that think that we are still in the 50s and have no idea that there are PROFESSIONAL WOMEN. That actually went to college and completed their education with degrees and all those good things.

It is like being in a really bizarre time warp reading some of these posts but not really surprising when you think about it.


So Romney didn't worry about parsing every word to make sure it was PC. How refreshing.

Refreshing to you perhaps but there are many women out there who were turned off. Romney needs their votes not yours.

I hope he keeps on being "refreshing" for the next few weeks.

As far as equal pay goes, neither candidate addressed that. The president did mention that he supported the Ledbetter proposal, but it failed. Once again, he didn't get it done.

That's a whole lot of nonsense.

Elvis connect the dots.

President Obama brought up the the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009. then consider the fact that Obama signed this piece of legistation over 3 years ago. So, he addressed it. Romney on the other hand didn't. He just told us some stories about women going home at 5 and binders.


Definition of 'Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act'
A law signed by Congress on January 29, 2009, that restored worker protections against pay discrimination. The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act allows individuals who face pay discrimination to seek rectification under federal anti-discrimination laws. The law clarifies that discrimination based on age, religion, national origin, race, sex and disability will "accrue" every time the employee receives a paycheck that is deemed discriminatory.

How is that a failure?

And last, but not least, he apparently did get it done since the Act was already signed, sealed and delivered long before the debates.


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And Romney's campaign says he would not have signed it if he had been President when it came up.


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If you are going to say you were an English teacher, yes; I would be surprised.

No elvis I dictated my memos and had Staff to do what you do so well. I was a bit more valuable and my pay reflected the value.


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And Romney's campaign says he would not have signed it if he had been President when it came up.

Esh, surprise surprise (not) they flip-flopped on that today too.

Ed Gillespie apparently didn't get the lie memo in time. Yesterday he claimed Romney didn't support the Act in 2009. Today he is claiming that Romney didn't have an opinion in 2009 but wouldn't seek to repeal it if he were elected President.

Now doesn't that make you feel better? ;(


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Well since it's my statement you commented on elvis, I'm replying. Do you not think dads also want to be with their children? Or only the moms? Because we switched off. He worked nights and kept him all day long, and I worked days and kept him all night long for the first three years. Then, we did it all concurrently. He wanted to be with him as much as I did. So much so, we didn't want him in daycare.

And your math is wrong. "simply because more women than men are single parent". Last I checked, it takes two to make that child and it also takes two to divorce. Single mother has some pretty negative connotations coming from you. I have to wonder if a single dad makes you feel like he's some poor put upon dude, struggling to figure out child rearing since he was devoid of those skills by merely being born male.


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Answering your questions in order: Some do, hopefully most. Second question: some do; hopefully most. You are purposefully saying this without a bit of conviction, based on my observations of your sense of fair play. Speaking of which, no, I won't play. You will think what you wish, Rob, and I'm not going to try to change your mind, if this is what you really think. I like both women and men.

I don't get off on defending myself. I won't say I don't care what you think; that wouldn't be true.
______________

As for you, lily. Sure.


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HUH?


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Yeah, huh? Elvis enough with the snarks. I realize you're in a deep depression over your pathetic candidate, but don't doubt my story about my successful daughter and her husband. I don't need to prove anything to you. And quit harassing Marquest on her spelling. Her posts are infinitely more interesting than yours. I know the moderator does not like stalkers.


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RE: Equal pay for women

Robin, I sure feel for you... it must be so difficult to be one of the only individuals representing true conservative-ism. And then, to be a woman, to boot. ;-)

I jest... but it's not funny that Romney has been very derogatory toward women and other minorities, insulting and patronizing them throughout his campaign, which one can be assured is not garnering him votes from those sectors of the population. Certainly not from any independently thinking members of such population segments.


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I think that is with what I took issue in elvis' statement. No one ever thinks about Ed in all of my divorce stuff. I couldn't do what he does, live without my little fella (who is about to be as tall as I!) in my prescence most every day. I care about how this is affecting Ed as much as I care about how much it's affecting LF. He still loves his son and would love to be with him 100% of the time. But my son has to have one place to live and grow up. There are loads of reasons he's with me most of the time, but gender isn't one of them.

It's about time for all of the idiotic gender misconceptions out there to be put to bed forever. Romney et al are sickening me. I cannot believe that there are any people who still have that mindset, but had the stupidity to get on national television and espouse it as something to be admired. Worse, some do admire it! It's so sickening. I just can't come up with a better word. It turns my stomach.


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And quit harassing Marquest on her spelling. Her posts are infinitely more interesting than yours. I know the moderator does not like stalkers.

*

Really?

This is interesting news, Lily.

That is good to know.


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And this has WHAT to do with the topic, Demi, or are you stalking me too?


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Thanks lily but elvis is like a little bug you either ignore or swat and keep moving.

I have said many times....She reminded me of a secretary we had in our office. She would read backwards to proof a memo. If you asked her to retrieve the last memo she typed she did not have a clue what we were talking about. She never had comprehension of the subject but she could type and proof read. At the age of 50 that was as far as she was going to go in life professionally. I got my foot in the door as a Secretary but my salary, career, and position did not end with my butt in that same chair.

Elvis has that ability and if it makes her feel better for the day I just laugh and if I feel like responding to her silliness I do. Most of the time I just ignore her. That is her input for the day.

My feelings will never be hurt because someone correct a spelling, a wrong word or a idea I post. I have seen other typo and incorrect words from others. It never occur to me to correct them it does not help my ego, or make a difference in my life. It would be a waste of my time. JMO


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Being spelling challenged myself I was wondering what was wrong with marquest's post so I did what I try to remember to do before I hit submit which is to copy and paste into my word processing program where I have a spell check. I am perfectly capable of confounding spell check(no suggestions) however in this case there werent any, so Elvis was making snark apparently about previous posts?? What's with that? Elvis, we are all so polite about your having to get out the dictionary to figure out what we are talking about.. Cut some slack here. I am guessing you were embarassed about being wrong about the Lilly Ledbetter act and simply lashed out to deflect before someone ask you to at least acknowledge that fact. Hmmmm?


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That's what Elvis does best..lashes out, and then ten posts down makes obscure remarks which mean nothing to no one. All of us make spelling and grammatical errors, Elvis included. The best step to remedy this is ignore every post she makes and maybe she'll get bored and disappear. .


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I am perfectly capable of confounding spell check(no suggestions) however in this case there werent any, so Elvis was making snark apparently about previous posts?? What's with that?

patriciae,
I did not even look to see what elvis was talking about. I know from previous comments from her comments about my post it is usually something she does not understand "above her knowledge base" or as they say in the corporate world "above her pay grade". LOL

Yep Lily it is best to ignore which what I usually do.


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RE: Equal pay for women

The message box here does spell check for me; it underlines in red if I misspell a word. All I have to do is pay attention before I hit preview message.


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Really? I didn't know there was an automatic spell check here. I don't see underline red.


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Meanwhile, back to the subject of equality for women...

..."So we said fine. Let's have a flexible schedule so you can have hours that work for you."

Was this just for the women with children? What about women with second jobs? And women with no other responsibities?

Did he also make flexible hours for the men?


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RE: Equal pay for women

You have to misspell something, demi. ;)

I am using Firefox, I wonder if it is a function of the browser.


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Does his own campaign know anything about any of this yet? There was all the back & forth on Lilly L it's such a conveniently organized mess. No one seemed to know anything that someone else wouldn't walk back. It wouldn't be bad if they were truly disorganized but his campaign has done this over & over on purpose. for anyone who has no problem with that I say your a disgusting citizen to support such machinations with a vote.


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Who the heck should have to work until 8 pm, man or woman? Was Romney running a sweatshop?

All the very successful people we know work long hours. Professionals, people in high profile jobs and/or people who own their own businesses do not work 9-5. Who doesn't know that the price of success is hard work and more work?


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Good for them their employees are hourly for the most part I have no loyalty to a company. From the sound of it neither does Romney.


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Who doesn't know that the price of success is hard work and more work?

No one I know.


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Professionals, people in high profile jobs and/or people who own their own businesses do not work 9-5.

Successful people are not one size fits all. The number of hours one works does not necessarily indicate success or measure ability. I know very successful people that don't work long hours at all and less "successful" people that do.


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I know this is long but its so interesting.
If its too long and boring for you..then don't bother
but I think some will find it as interesting as I did.
*********************************************************
Why Does Obama's White House Pay Women Less?
Fri, Oct 19 2012

Posted 10/18/2012 06:29 PM ET

Email Print License Comment
inShare.
Equity: The president touts equal pay for equal work but hasn't practiced what he preaches with the women he has employed �� including a well-known staffer who complained of a hostile work environment.

It remains a mystery as to why equal pay for women was one of the questions elected by unofficial Team Obama debate coach Candy Crowley of CNN during the second presidential debate.

But it let President Obama launch into breathtaking hypocrisy regarding the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.

Lilly Ledbetter, which in Crowley's view ranked right up there with BenghaziGate as a pivotal issue, woke up one morning complaining that her male counterparts were getting paid more money for the same work and decided to sue for redress of this perceived grievance.

After she was told she had missed the statutory deadline, her case made it to the Supreme Court, which said too bad, but you missed the deadline.

So Congress passed the Fair Pay Act, which does more for lawyers than it does for women, merely extending the statute of limitations for pay-discrimination lawsuits from 180 days from the violation to 180 days after the last paycheck issued that was affected by that discrimination.

When Katherine Fenton asked Obama what he intended to do about "women making only 72% of what their male counterparts earn," the question was based on a false premise and a false statistic �� one calculated by Diana Furchtgott-Roth, senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, by comparing all male with all female workers, regardless of experience, productivity, number of hours put in or length of service.

When you factor these things in, Furchtgott-Roth says, women make about 95 cents to a man's dollar, which may explain why, since the Ledbetter Act was passed in January 2009, only 35 women have filed lawsuits under the new law.

The question, and Obama's response, were calculated to highlight the Democratic campaign theme that Republicans are waging a war on women because they don't think that having taxpayers provide free contraceptives to Georgetown coeds will help us beat China.

Never mind that by the questioner's standards, the White House is a hotbed of sexist discrimination.

According to a report published by the Washington Free Beacon in April, the 2011 annual report on White House staffers revealed that the median annual salary for female White House employees was 18% less than male employees �� $60,000 compared with $71,000.


Read More At IBD: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/101812-629933-obama-white-house-pays-women-less.htm#ixzz29mmghz9r

Obama's record on paying women White House aides not stellar
�� return to Inside Politics

Comments PrintBy Susan Crabtree - The Washington Times
October 17, 2012, 11:14AM

President Obama is playing up his record on women's issues and ridiculing Mitt Romney for his "binders full of women" comment, but Mr. Obama has a mixed record when it comes to hiring women at the White House.

Team Obama clearly believes he thumped Mr. Romney on the question of equal pay and job opportunities for women.

"Mitt Romney still won't say whether he'd stand up for equal pay, but he did tell us he has 'binders full of women,' " Mr. Obama tweeted Wednesday morning, and his campaign later hosted a press call with equal pay advocate Lilly Ledbetter and Cecile Richards, the president of Planned Parenthood.

Although Mr. Romney has had several opportunities, he still hasn't said whether he believes the government should give women legal protections for pay equity, but during the debate he talked up his commitment to hiring several senior women staffers while governor of Massachusetts. Mr. Romney said he went to a "number of women's groups and said, 'Can you help us find folks,' and they brought us whole binders full of women."

The binders comment immediately turned into a viral parody on social media networks and even had its own Twitter account with more than 12,000 followers by the end of the debate.

Later Wednesday in Iowa, when talking about his commitment to education and hiring more teachers, the president hammered Mr. Romney again on the binder comment.

"We don't have to collect a bunch of binders to find talented qualified young women" for these fields, Mr. Obama said.

But President Obama's own record on closing the gender pay gap is less than stellar. Using late 2011 figures, the latest available at the time, The Washington Times earlier this year surveyed 121 White House employees who were paid at least $100,000 and found that 47 were women and 74 were men. That is only slightly better than in 2003, the third year of the Bush administration, when 39 of the top 121 employees were women.

When all White House employees are considered, the Obama administration's record dims a bit further. Female employees earn a median salary of $60,000, roughly 18 percent less than men, whose median salary is $71,000.

While Mr. Obama has taken steps to ensure that senior women in the White House on average make as much or more than men, he has not dramatically increased the number of women at the highest levels compared with those serving under Mr. Bush.

In the highest-paid positions when Mr. Bush was in office �� aides making $151,000 �� four of 14 were women: Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser; Harriet Miers, a deputy chief of staff; Dina Powell, an assistant to the president for personnel; and Mary Spellings, an assistant for domestic policy.

In 2011, Mr. Obama had seven women compared with 14 men making the top White House salary �� $172,000 �� an increase of three women in the top ranks from the Bush administration's third year. Those women are: Valerie Jarrett, a senior adviser; Melody Barnes, director of domestic policy; Stephanie Cutter, who served as deputy senior adviser before moving to the campaign; Nancy-Ann DeParle and Alyssa Mastromonaco, deputy chiefs of staff; Kathryn Ruemmler, White House counsel; and Christina Tchen, director of the White House Office of Public Engagement.

And statistics don't tell the whole story. Despite progress on closing pay disparities and hiring women for senior roles, the president has incurred persistent criticism that women in his White House for the most part are kept out of the inner circle.

The same woman who was one of Mr. Obama's debate coaches, Anita Dunn, complained that the White House when she worked there would have been in court for being a "hostile workplace" for women, according to Ron Suskind's book "Confidence Men." Ms. Dunn says she was misquoted.

Even though some of his brashest, testosterone-pumped aides such as Rahm Emanuel and Bill Daley, his two former chiefs of staffs schooled in in-your-face, Chicago-style politics, have left the White House, and David Axelrod, his senior adviser, has moved on to the campaign, the president has faced a nagging perception of the White House as an exclusive boys club.

Mrs. Jarrett is undeniably one of Mr. Obama's closest and most influential advisers, but since the first year Mr. Obama took office, he has struggled to dispel the notion that women were taking a back seat to men in influencing the president. At one point in late 2009, women in the White House felt so marginalized that Mr. Obama held a dinner to let the senior female aides voice their complaints directly to him.

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Read more: Obama's record on paying women White House aides not stellar - Washington Times http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/oct/17/obamas-record-mixed-hiring-women/#ixzz29moyHxEz
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter


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RE: Equal pay for women

Hopefully the White House will do better in the future.


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RE: Equal pay for women

According to a report published by the Washington Free Beacon in April, the 2011 annual report on White House staffers revealed that the median annual salary for female White House employees was 18% less than male employees �� $60,000 compared with $71,000.

*************************************************

Was this for the SAME type of a job? Or was the disparity because more women were in lower positins, such as interns?

This article is not clear, like a lot of political commercials.

Many internships in this country DON'T PAY ANYTHING, so if you get a "stipend" being an intern in the WH your'e very lucky. It's like volunteer work.


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RE: Equal pay for women

"Was this for the SAME type of a job? Or was the disparity because more women were in lower positins, such as interns?

This article is not clear, like a lot of political commercials."

-------------------

As long as the "women making only 72% of what their male counterparts earn" mantra continues to be used, notto's question is irrelevant, because:

"When Katherine Fenton asked Obama what he intended to do about "women making only 72% of what their male counterparts earn," the question was based on a false premise and a false statistic -- one calculated by Diana Furchtgott-Roth, senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, by comparing all male with all female workers, regardless of experience, productivity, number of hours put in or length of service."

It's a circle. You can't have it both ways.


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RE: Equal pay for women

"I have said many times....She reminded me of a secretary we had in our office. She would read backwards to proof a memo. If you asked her to retrieve the last memo she typed she did not have a clue what we were talking about. She never had comprehension of the subject but she could type and proof read. At the age of 50 that was as far as she was going to go in life professionally. I got my foot in the door as a Secretary but my salary, career, and position did not end with my butt in that same chair."

It's been at least 15 yrs since I've heard a person in that role called a "secretary". Admin Assistant is the correct term and clearly applies to anyone performing that job. Secretary is kind of insulting in 2012. And comprehending what one typed never was a requirement of being excellent in that role.

Admin Assistants today are paid the same regardless of sex. And a good Admin is worth their weight in gold.


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RE: Equal pay for women

Perhaps Obama will be the President who addresses this long standing discrepancy at the WH. I don't know what the mechanisms would be to do so, budgets, etc. but perhaps he will lead by example. We'll see.

No matter what he is darned if he does and darned if he doesn't. If he doesn't address this he will be accused of ignoring the problem and not caring about women and if he does address the issue and bring the women's salaries on par with the men he will be accused of spending/wasting/___ money.


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RE: Equal pay for women

"No matter what he is darned if he does and darned if he doesn't."

Yes! That's actually a great summary for both candidates. Great line, Epi. May I use that?


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RE: Equal pay for women

It's been at least 15 yrs since I've heard a person in that role called a "secretary". Admin Assistant is the correct term and clearly applies to anyone performing that job. Secretary is kind of insulting in 2012. And comprehending what one typed never was a requirement of being excellent in that role.

jmc01, check the government listing. It was her job title. I retired 2 years ago,. I am aware there are Secretaries that are worth more than they are paid. As I said my first job was as a Secretary. No position insult intended.

In Corporate USA they changed the title to Admin and Executive Assistant when they cut the middle managers. Some of the Admins and Executive Assistants performed middle management duties and were paid a somewhat higher wage, Those were the ones that were expected to have a grasp of comprehending and action if needed was a job expectation.

Some companies used the titles AA and Ex AA but they performed the same past clerk/secretary duties and were paid lower because they were not able to fill that comprehension/ action level.

Here is a link that might be useful: Job Bank


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RE: Equal pay for women

That's actually a great summary for both candidates. Great line, Epi. May I use that?

Elvis I don't own that expression so I don't get to allow or deny you anything. Its been around forever (sometimes with darned replaced by another word)but it certainly would be preferrable when you use it do it appropriately.

I don't see it as a one size fits all and I can't think of a scenario where it is applicable for Romney. I gave specific reasons why it works in this instance. It doesn't fit in war, denying or revoking rights and a myriad of other scenarios where Romney is concerned. I won't waste my time repeating them all again.


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RE: Equal pay for women

Okay.


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RE: Equal pay for women

lol....okie dokie....it fits Obama ok and all is well with
the world.....but epip says," I don't see it as a one size fits all and I can't think of a scenario where it is applicable for Romney."

Talk about having tunnel vision.

Mitt Romney 2012
Lots of lucky women are going to get a good job.


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RE: Equal pay for women

"Mitt Romney 2012
Lots of lucky women are going to get a good job."

..... but horrible healthcare.


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RE: Equal pay for women

CW, your rants have been off the wall today (even moreso than usual) so I have no desire to engage. Fix your glasses and read my words again slowly because your reinterpretation doesn't mean much and like some of your posts today, doesn't make much sense.


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RE: Equal pay for women

City, you gotta stop reading marquest. 'Night, now.


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RE: Equal pay for women

Posted by elvis 4b WI (My Page) on Fri, Oct 19, 12 at 20:30

"Was this for the SAME type of a job? Or was the disparity because more women were in lower positins, such as interns?
This article is not clear, like a lot of political commercials."

-------------------

As long as the "women making only 72% of what their male counterparts earn" mantra continues to be used, notto's question is irrelevant, because:

"When Katherine Fenton asked Obama what he intended to do about "women making only 72% of what their male counterparts earn," the question was based on a false premise and a false statistic -- one calculated by Diana Furchtgott-Roth, senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, by comparing all male with all female workers, regardless of experience, productivity, number of hours put in or length of service."

It's a circle. You can't have it both ways.
**************************************************

My question is extremely relevant in ANY situation.
If you have a company where most women have different positions, typically in a lower pay brackett, you cannot say that they don't get the SAME pay as men.

You have to compare apples to apples. This article is VAGUE.

OF you don't have women in higher positions then it's called a glass ceilling.
Washington still doesn't reflect our country. Many minorities CANNOT run for offices/politics due to finances.
It's mostly white men who have the money backing for political posts.


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RE: Equal pay for women

Romney's answer regarding equal pay for women subtext"

1. I once hired a few women. I had to be flexible because they were mothers.
2. Because women can't stay at work 12 hours a day they make 72 cents on the dollar men make.

That was his answer.


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RE: Equal pay for women

Federal pay is dictated by law-LAW-there is a wage and pay schedule and it is based on your position, pay grade and how long you have had that pay grade. Whether or not you hire a person of a particular sex to be a particular position is another issue. No one has done a really great job of that but when you are picking advisors and senior staff one tends to pick the people with the most clout/background and that is not women in our present world but it is steadily improving...one baby step at a time. So no president can pay a woman less for the job but they can elect to not hire a women for that job. Another criterion would be bonuses-bonuses are the backbone of pay enhancement for senior service employees-it would be illuminating to see who is getting the bonuses.

Lily Ledbetter on the other hand addresses a whole nother issue-that of paying women less to do a job when they would pay a man more. This is where the 72% thing comes in. Ms Ledbetter found out after years of working that she had been denied fair pay for all those years, but in spite of the previous interpretation of the fair pay law being you could sue when you found out,the courts suddenly decided the statutes of limitations started when you first were underpaid even if you didn't/couldn't know. Now, since her company did not allow people to discuss pay and many companies have a policy that you can be fired for discussing pay, how is a person to find out? The new law addressed that issue by going back to the previous interpretation of the law in that the statute of limitations started with the last underpayment.

As for very few women taking advantage of this law-suing your employer to protect your rights is the kiss of death for a career. Employers are not gung-ho to hire someone who sues. It is kind of like whistle blowers-d#mned if you do and d#mned if you dont.


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RE: Equal pay for women

The number of hours one works does not necessarily indicate success or measure ability.

Actually, there is a very strong correlation between practice hours/training hours/ work hours and success. And "ability" is native talent developed and honed by hours of practice.


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