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Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

Posted by ingrid_vc Z10 SoCal (My Page) on
Mon, Oct 15, 12 at 21:58

When I read this article I was shocked and dismayed to think that someone would be capable of this. Talk about showing politicians in their worst light! This incident showed such calculating and shabby behavior, with people's rights and wishes completely swept aside, that it made me wonder what Paul Ryan would be capable of as a vice-president or, God forbid, a president.

Here is a link that might be useful: Paul Ryan, Dishwasher


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

Just another form of lying perhaps.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

Shocking! He can do my dirty (or clean) dishes any old time...or he can just watch me do them. ;D


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

"or he can just watch me do them. ;D"

That is appropriately creepy. This is the first time that I have understood a woman voting for the Romney/Ryan ticket.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

Then he benched pressed some lepers


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

I thought he water-boarded liberal tourists. Or was that Islamic terrorists?


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

Nah, that would be wake boarding and water skiing. Not water boarding and wake skiing.

Didn't you get the memo? No such thing as Islamic terrorists. We do have Islamic tourists, though.


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What a cute family. Great idea for a photo shoot.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

Too bad Nuns in a Bus weren't there at the same time!


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

Well, Nancy, I doubt very much that the nuns would have barged in uninvited and washed pots that were already clean. I think they are too respectful and too honest to engage in that kind of sleazy, disrespectful behavior.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

What sleazy obnoxious behavior from the little lyin Ryan and his family...all for a photo op. R&R could get the award for the sleaziest politicians ever. Do anything , say anything.


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By the same token, Obama and his whole family often work in soup kitchens...really work... washing and serving,. They don't burst thru the door, push people away and then "pretend" to wash clean dishes. What a phoney.


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Just another 'day in the life of'... as they cheat their way toward the White House. It's obvious to anyone with common sense... oops, there's that word combination again... that Ryan's only posing for a photo opportunity. Notice the lack of water, suds and steam, the lack of food particles, grease or other such residues... something one could not avoid if one had actually been doing the task appearing to be at hand.

Belly crawlers... lower than the garden of eden belly crawlers, the lot of them. Phony doesn't quite cover it all, though it's a good enough start.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

As I wife, I wouldn't go for my husband being fake/hypocritical. How can you trust a man like that?......on any level?

This entire election for the R & R ticket is "pretend."


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

notto - there are people born with no conscience whatsoever. Just wonder why it is so many go into politics? The really low ones are the slient, invisible backers of these people. Bet we haven't seen the worst of it yet either. Was politics ever a noble profession?

How do people explain this to their children? So glad I never had children. I'd be so ashamed to have to explain this crud to kids.


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This is the first time that I have understood a woman voting for the Romney/Ryan ticket.

I still don't get it. I'm a woman. I find Ryan to be creepy looking. And not even a little bit attractive. And, believe me, it has nothing to do with his politics. I thought that the 1st time I saw him way before the campaign started, and way way before he was picked for VP.

Of course, even if I found him attractive, how that could possibly influence one's vote is beyond stupid.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

We need to bring good honest people back into politics. People that come in, take office for one or two terms and then go back to their "real job". Citizen politicians. People that live the life of the average American before and after their term. Politicians are too removed from the average American, on general.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

All for show, and so phony. Let's see how many other faces he can present to the public, revealing his multi-faceted personas, none of them real. A cardboard, cut-out man, who will say anything, do anything, whichever way the wind blows.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

I think part of the problem is that the field of politics is so corrupt, so twisted and greed filled, that anyone with a conscience and true morals can't begin to swim through the shark tank. It would not surprise me to learn that threats have been issued to anyone wanting to "buck the current system". That's how corrupt and morally bankrupt it is.


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The ones who vote the crooks in, and knowingly so, are the real problem.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Tue, Oct 16, 12 at 10:04

Paul Ryan 2012
Sink or Swim ?


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

Paul Ryan 2012

Oh, so now Romney's off the ticket?

By the way, there are MUCH fewer yard signs and bumper stickers this year.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Tue, Oct 16, 12 at 10:27

Nah, Romney's still on the ticket, just not this thread...so far.

Obama & Romney yard signs are pretty even here. There are some Virgil Goode signs too which could siphon some TP votes from Romney. Goode may get 4-5% here in Va. (he's never included in polling so take Va poll numbers with a grain of salt.) Goode claims to be on 39 state ballots, 38 probably never heard of him.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

"I think part of the problem is that the field of politics is so corrupt, so twisted and greed filled, that anyone with a conscience and true morals can't begin to swim through the shark tank."

And the solution to this "problem"?

Give the government more and more control over our lives.

Just good common sense.

Hay


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I.D.I.O.T.

Any shred of respect I might've had for him just disappeared completely.


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What a rude twisting of a Corporal Work of Mercy - so much for Ryan living his life according to his faith.

The Great Apostle of Charity, St. Vincent de Paul, would find this sad.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

"The ones who vote the crooks in, and knowingly so, are the real problem."

That's about the size of it.

No, Hay... the answer is to cease voting in the corrupt turds. It would also be helpful to stop trying to pass legislation that tries to control moral issues. Public safety is something we need to keep.


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"No, Hay... the answer is to cease voting in the corrupt..."

Wake me up when we get there.

Hay


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This photo op is making big news...exposing the phoney empty suit Ryan really is...And Elvis, you can see why women vote for the R&R ticket implying Ryan is handsome?? . I don't know what you call handsome, but Ryan is a creepy looking guy who looks just like Eddie Munster with his pointy features and non existent lips. Pretty homely in my view, but then I am not attracted to little men with big guns who slaughter every living animal they can. As an aside , are you GOP women so superficial you vote based on the looks of the candidate?


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NO one here talks about a persons's looks more than you, Lily.

I certainly don't base my vote on the way a person looks and know of no one else that would, or know why that it would even come into the conversation.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

I have to be honest and say that physical appearance would have some impact on my vote.

That is not to say it would be about "handsome" or "pretty" but I would have to really work hard to overcome, gross obesity, slovenliness, excessive (in my view) tattoos and eccentric clothes, makeup or hairdos.

I really believe that appearance can tell a story.


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In that sense, Chase, I agree with you.

I would probably not vote for someone that looked like they just stepped into a biker bar, but under some circumstances I might.

My comments were about the attractiveness of a person's facial features, or their body characteristics--the ones that a person was born with or developed (like burns, loss of limbs, etc.)

Certainly how one PRESENTS themselves has a bearing on how we perceive them and their abilities.

In this case, both candidates do a good job of presenting themselves.


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demi, you haven't commented about what this post is about, how Paul Ryan conducted himself. I'd be interested to learn your thoughts about that.


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No event to me.

Doesn't matter who did it, Obama, Biden, Ryan, Romney, Santa Claus--it's all PR.

I wouldn't have done it, but then I wouldn't hold a photo op in the Rose Garden to have a few beers with people I didn't know, either.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

"As an aside , are you GOP women so superficial you vote based on the looks of the candidate?"

No, dear. But it IS a perk.

____________________

"I would probably not vote for someone that looked like they just stepped into a biker bar, but under some circumstances I might."

Worked for Jessie Ventura, LOL!

__________________

Posted by duluthinbloomz4 zone 4a (My Page) on Tue, Oct 16, 12 at 11:17

"What a rude twisting of a Corporal Work of Mercy - so much for Ryan living his life according to his faith.
The Great Apostle of Charity, St. Vincent de Paul, would find this sad."

Too funny. I can't remember the last time I sat down and had a good conversation with that guy; how is he doing?

_______________

But seriously, Demi summed it up pretty well IMO.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

Demi, Elvis brought the "looks" thing up, and I said I find Ryan very unattractive especially after viewing the punk photo of him pumping iron with a backward baseball cap on staring seductively into the camera. Veep candidate material? I hardly think so. I can imagine the Righties having a field day with this had Obama done it.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

"I can imagine the Righties having a field day with this had Obama done it."

So true.


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R&R should step up and donate since they caused the shortfall.

Soup kitchen in Ryan photo op losing donors

When Republican vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan rinsed a few dishes in the back of a soup kitchen in Youngstown, Ohio, he couldn't have known the photo op would still be a story almost a week later. It is, but not for anything positive.

According to The Huffington Post, the Mahoning County St. Vincent De Paul Society is losing donors as a result of the photo. "It appears to be a substantial amount," charity president Brian Antal told the Post. "You can rest assured there has been a substantial backlash." Antal declined to mention specific numbers,

Here is a link that might be useful: Soup Kitchen


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

I have to differ, Chase... if an intelligent, capable, qualified candidate with tattoos and long hair were in the running, I could more easily give my vote because I'd identify with that person. Outward dress and appearance, as long as it's clean and cared for, are not all that important in the grand scheme.

I will agree with gross obesity or slovenliness, though. Those things depict a person who isn't organized, doesn't care, and perhaps has low self esteem or inner weakness.

I don't care so much about hair style, mode of dress, or whether or not the person liked skin art. Those things are irrelevant to qualifications when it comes to representing the people. A person's policies and how they comport themselves are more important.


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I don't care so much about hair style, mode of dress, or whether or not the person liked skin art.

I have to admit I would have a problem. I want the entire package. Appropriate dress and hair, and body all have to be right before I am going to even consider you as a representative.

I also have to admit I have never understood why people find it necessary to use their body as a coloring book. I feel the same way about plastic surgery. Your body is sacred and any mutilation or changes that are not for a medical need is strange to me.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

Jodi,

I did not say I wouldn't vote for them. I said "I would have to really work hard to overcome..." I was being honest in saying I would have to work at getting past the appearance issues, however if they were intelligent, capable, qualified and met my values I could get past that and vote for them....and long hair isn't on my list ;)


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

And how do we know that President Obama, or any of our other esteemed representatives, for that matter, don't have skin art in places that are easily covered? If you knew they did, would it matter so much?

I can hardly think it would take away from their intelligence, qualifications for office, capability or ability to do the job elected for.

I'd prefer an honest, decent, able, capable, intelligent, and qualified individual... and could care less about how that person chooses to express him or herself within their private lives. That part of it is irrelevant.

Do you think the fact that I have loads of skin art makes me less intelligent or less qualified in what I do? Do I sound unintelligent or incapable?


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What has your craw this AM?

I said I would have to work hard getting past EXCESSIVE (to me) tats and I would! No where did I say that having tats means someone is not intelligent.

Just for the record, assuming he proves he is capable of the job and assuming that he wins the Liberal leadership race, I intend to vote for this man.

Sorry for the blog link but it was the only shirtless pic I could find.

Here is a link that might be useful: Justin Trudeau


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Unfortunately, this little stunt is apparently having an impact on the charity's fundraising efforts. A lot of their Republican donors have stopped giving because they think the charity threw Ryan under the bus.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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I wonder how it's perceived they were throwing him under the bus when he himself engaged in this egregious behavior? He threw himself under the bus. Do they realize or care that they only harm they're causing is to people who need help? I think the Republican donors are despicable in engaging in this behavior.


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Republican donors have stopped donating because of Paul Ryan's behavior? So they are making Ryan out to be the victim and punishing St. Vincent De Paul Society? Why am I not surprised!!!!


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This is from the Rockford Register Star and virtually in its entirety below...

Well, the political embarrassment incurred by Ryan in that episode has prompted some Republicans to lash out against the soup kitchen...
Ryan may have suffered a few late-night jokes, but the fallout for the soup kitchen appears to be far more bruising. Brian J. Antal, president of the Mahoning County St. Vincent De Paul Society, confirmed that donors have begun an exodus in protest over Ryan's embarrassment. The monetary losses have been big. "It appears to be a substantial amount," Antal said. "You can rest assured there has been a substantial backlash."
Antal says he can't give an actual dollar amount. "I can't say how much [in] donations we lost," he said. "Donations are a private matter with our organization."
Antal's charity represents the kind of organization that conservative Republicans might champion. But that was before the Ryan incident went viral a few days ago. According to The Washington Post, Antal said that the moment should never have happened. He told the newspaper that the photo-op was not authorized and that the campaign had "ramrodded their way" inside.
Ryan supporters have now targeted Antal and his soup kitchen, Antal said, including making hundreds of angry phone calls. Some members of Antal's volunteer staff have had to endure the barrage as well, he said. "The sad part is a lot of [the callers] want to hide behind anonymity," he said, adding that if someone leaves their name and number he has tried to return their call. In addition to phone calls, people have posted a few choice words on the charity's Facebook wall, including statements like "I hope you lose your tax emempt [sic] status," "Anyone who is thinking about donations to you should think twice" and "Shame on you Brian Antal!"

Sometimes I really just wonder just how much more appalling people can be.


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The Right is downright MEAN. Read some of their blogs. Scary scary mean people. Imagine punishing a soup kitchen for Ryan's failed photo op. Imagine Ryan even doing it?


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Obviously Ryan shouldn't have been pretending to help the 47%.

If he starts pretending to care about the 47%, it's a slippery slope and who know where it will end.


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Wow! Again, are they not able to read the facts? How can they possibly be mad at the soup kitchen? The soup kitchen didn't want Ryan coming in to begin with!

Ryan should take responsibility and put out a statement condeming the attack on the soup kitchen. And he should make a personal donation to make a point.


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I don't care if a candidate is good looking to some women (Ryan isn't my type at all, the shape of the eyes ruined the possibility of being good looking in my opinion) but I would need to have a president capable of presenting a solid, 'respected by all' when it comes to appearance because he will certainly be dealing with all other heads of state and I want him to present well.
By appearance alone, I believe all four the men and certainly their wives do very well when it comes to looks and how they dress when being seen by other people who could be important for the welfare of this country.

HOWEVER, I also want my President to be able to handle himself well with all heads of states or anyone important to the well being of this country including those within this country.
-Romney continues, with every debate and in some speeches, to demonstrate that he is unable to control or restrain himself and act with the proper decorm -
-When it comes to the debates, he is still dealing with a head of state, no matter what he is doing be it trying to win a debate or having a personal conversation.
-I think the fact that he has been the head person in charge in business has given him an attitude of condescension and an ugly aggressiveness towards anyone who disagrees with him or prevents him from getting what it is he desires, even from from people this trait rears it's ugly head. He is unable to control and present himself with a restrained dignity.
-He also repeatedly demonstrates himself incapable of vision to see how others would reactions to his behavior - re: people of other countries during the Olympics - that was an appalling, embarrassing mess.

I understand that conservatives will easily give him a break (actually applaud) all these behavioral/attitude/agressiveness issues that worry me when it comes to the possibility of Romney being the head of our own state,
- but then they will vote for anyone but Obama so I really don't consider how they dismiss or will even defend how badly he presents his character as anything of weight or value.

How could such character in a man possibly hope to work in united and working *together* with Congress and the Senate? The message he sends to me is that he would attempt to agressively roll over all of them - even conservative reps, should they disagee with him.
--That is not a sign of strength - that is a sign of a bully who is used to behaving aggressively with physicality and words to get what he wants, not able to display true strength via grace and dignity as well as firmness.
-As a teen, he threw down to the floor another kid who was "different" and cut his hair and then forgot about it. The ONLY ONE involved who forgot about the incident - as it was so unremarkable a "boyhood prank" as not to regret or wonder what that was within himself that he had to deal with. Which every other person there did do, to the point where some reached out many years later to apologize. Romney forgot about it. It was an unremarkable, forgetable behavior to him.
- He dressed up as a police officer and went out and stopped cars. Creepy.
- He put a living family pet on the roof of the car and ignored the distress of the dog. Creepy and unfeeling.
-He stated to wealthy doners that he was willing to disregard almost half of the people of this country because he holds them with distain. Unfeeling and condescending towards those whom he would serve and answer to.

All those signs of bully showing up from way, way, back. I often wonder what we DON'T know about him.
And what he is hiding re: his taxes.

I need a man of grace, dignity and restraint when dealing and represent us as he deals with the world outside of our own country. Luckily we have one right now.
-What this country can't tolerate is another bully President or a Vice President who's opinion will have weight with the President. If we get one, I would consider it a tragic error committed to by the majority vote with reprecussions we all will suffer.


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I think the fact that he has been the head person in charge in business has given him an attitude of condescension and an ugly aggressiveness towards anyone who disagrees with him or prevents him from getting what it is he desires

Actor's Studio's James Lipton said something very profound the other night. He said you have to ask yourself when you vote: do you want a President or do you want a Boss.


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As far as the photo op regarding Ryan, I honestly think it to be completely unimportant and more than likely every President has done silly, stupid things in order to have a photo op the way he wants one.
-I worry about his project he worked on with Akin, the one about real rape and abortion and how women can't get pregnant if it's true rape.

I worry about that a lot.

It tells me who he is when it comes to women and what he would like to do if he runs for the Presidency some day, which I suspect he will if the GOP doesn't clean up their mess in one huge hurry.

If they do, Ryan will become has-been when the clean up job is over.


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Mylab, At the Alfred E. Smith dinner last night, Obama nailed Romney with this comment:

"After my foreign trip in 2008, I was attacked as a celebrity because I was so popular with our allies overseas. I have to say, I'm impressed by how well Governor Romney has avoided that problem." Obama, on Romney's trip to Europe and the Middle East last summer, which drew critical headlines.


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I heard Lipton say that.
"He is that boss who tells lame jokes and waits for everyone else to laugh or else and keeps us forever off balance, uncertain and anxious. And that for me, that is who he is. He is that boss. "


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I doubt the Ryan photo op was "totally unimportant" to the Mahoning Co. St. Vincent de Paul Society with their reliance on donations to carry out their charitable and justice for the voiceless works.

Unimportant, though unfortunate, might be Dukakis in the tank, Quayle spelling potato, Palin pardoning a Thanksgiving turkey while one was being upended behind her, or Romney's 7-11 cookies.


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Chase, I was actually addressing Marquest with my questions, but anyone can answer. There's nothing wrong, other than the fact that skin art doesn't have anything to do with a person's intelligence, job qualifications, character as a human being, or their ability to perform a particular job.

Tattoos, or skin art, have become a lot more mainstream than they used to be, though there are quite a few rather elderly women and men in high position that sport tattoos. Many times, they're hidden by shirtsleeves or long pants, and people are completely unaware that the person in front of them even has a tattoo.

No one HAS to like them, but to choose a representative based upon something so superficial kind of makes me wonder. It's something I'd expect of some people... but not Marquest or yourself, which is why it's so surprising.

For myself, I don't care if my ink shows in public or not. It's part of who I am, and I'm not a bit ashamed or embarrassed that my body tells my story through permanent artwork. I display it with pride. But then, I don't work in a field that requires me to dress up every day, or sport any particular 'look'. Could I cover them? Sure. But why would I want or need to? It's just not who I am as a person.

Anyway... I think the most important aspects of a good representative are that person's policies, their character, how they comport themselves, whether or not they can identify and empathize with their constituents, how well they deal with their counterparts, how intelligent and capable of the job they are... all of which are inner characteristics, except how they comport themselves. Whether or not they're handsome or nice to look at doesn't really matter a whole lot to me. It's who they are as human beings and how they treat others that matters a lot more.

I don't happen to think Ryan OR Romney are in any way physically attractive, and their character makes them look all the more UN-attractive, as far as I'm concerned! Anyone that can lie so easily, act like they're in a class above everyone else, be so patronizing, and show other such earmarks of poor character is not anyone I ever would find attractive.

Who a person is and how they treat others, or their character, is so much more important to me than what they look like or what they wear. Those are superficial and meaningless in the grander scheme.

Jerzee, that was well stated. We don't need a boss... we need a President. The United States is not a corporation, a business, and cannot be run like one. It's a nation filled with people of all colors and stripes... and it requires a leader with a little finesse, someone who has the best interests of ALL citizens at heart, and will help to lead us in a positive direction.


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I agree with jodik. Tattoos are mainstream, in fact, so mainstream they have become passe and yawn...boring. The only people getting tattoos now are the young kids and ex housemouses covering up their 'Property of Killa' tattoo with something else.

I'd have no problem voting for someone with a tattoo or two in an area that could be covered if necessary.


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Liking or not liking tattoos is probably more about personal biases than anything else. I happen to think that tattoos on women are not feminine and that nothing is as beautiful as bare skin. I especially dislike sleeve tattoos, which look as though someone has a dirty arm. Some small tattoos on men don't bother me as much since I define tattoos as being "masculine". But, that's just me. On the other hand, if the president visits a foreign country covered with tattoos I can imagine that could be a problem. If they can't be seen in the ordinary course of events then it's really no one else's business. Seeing the First Lady in a gorgeous evening gown with tattoos would not please me, and again might offend someone like the English Queen or a host in an Arab country. Like everything else, it's a matter of common sense. If you want to work in construction, I doubt anyone will care what you put on your body, including me.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

jodik, it has nothing to do with whether I think someone is less intelligent, not capable. I am totally for your personal freedom as long as it does not hurt anyone. I just think if it is art as you say it should be on canvas and hung on my wall.

It is fair for me to not understand and not personally like the idea. There should not be a problem as long as I am not saying "I do not like it and I am trying to stop you."

Before I would consider someone for a position I have expectations. That include appearance. I think everybody has a picture in their mind of society acceptable appearance for certain positions.

Nobody is going to hire you to represent their firm with a tiger running up your arm and a bear head on your neck.(I am not saying that is what you have) One woman came in with finger nails so long they had curled under and she had trouble picking up the pen to fill out the application. I am saying what I have seen and companies I have worked for I heard what HR said when the applicant walked out the door.

Depending on the position you apply for and what city you are seeking employment; you will not get a call back. It is not mainstream in our society.

First impression appearance is all people have to judge a person if they are not family. When I worked in Education we could not stress enough "Employability" Appearance is key.


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I need a man of grace, dignity and restraint when dealing and represent us as he deals with the world outside of our own country. Luckily we have one right now
=======================================================
Yes we have a president who bows to sheeks and does PR to apologize to the Taliban who killed 4 of our citizens. He's apologized to the world for our "behavior" and you see where we are? 4 DEAD AMERICANS!!! Americans who told the WH they needed more security just 2 days before they were killed. Give me a break. I'm sick of Obama apologizing for us, we don't need to apologize for anything. We are giving these people billions of dollars and on top of that we need to apologize? I don't think so. Obama is weak and thinks the Muslims should be treated with respect, while they are trying to kill us every day. He needs to go!!


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When did ignorance become a virtue in this country?


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The rants are getting worse.


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It's pure desperation now. What's a sheek?


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Still spewing the apology-lie are we.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

Since we're revisiting the attack in Libya again and blaming President Obama I wanted to present this article for your consideration.

Richard Clarke: Romney�s Libya Questions Reveal Someone with No Experience in Terrorism

Richard Clarke Calls Romney Out for Asking Novice Questions about Libya

Richard Clark weighed in on Mitt Romney�s attacks on Obama over Libya. Clarke, whose resume gives him far more credence on the issue than most people�s� including by far Mitt Romney�s, wrote for the New York Daily News, "Mitt Romney seems fixated on why Washington did not know with better clarity and sooner what went on during a terrorist attack. It is the kind of question that comes from someone who has no experience dealing with terrorism crisis management or, indeed, combat."

You might recall Richard Clarke as the guy who issued the August 6, 2001 Daily Briefing Memo, entitled "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US" that George W Bush ignored, which warned that Al-Qaeda was going to strike the US. (The Bush administration tried to argue that the memo didn�t actually discuss being attacked in the U.S. in order to redact it, but it did.) Clarke is a national security expert who worked under Reagan and Bush � he�s no partisan hack. After Clarke objected to invading Iraq, his character was assassinated by the Bush regime, but he was proven correct with time.

Clark continued, "I dealt with scores of incidents and military operations over 30 years in the Pentagon, State Department and White House. I never saw a case where there was initial and accurate clarity about what happened."

Boom goes Mitt Romney�s wishful talking point about Libya.

Clark indicts Romney, "If there were not a presidential campaign going on, a campaign in which the incumbent (Obama) has a stellar record of fighting terrorism, I doubt Romney would care about the details of what happened in Benghazi. In 20 years of running for office, he has never demonstrated any expertise or even real interest in the details of national security.

But it is politics to rush out with a press release critical of the President�s handling of a crisis while the crisis is still going on, while American diplomats are still under fire. The Romney campaign did just that and got many details wrong in so doing."

Romney�s foreign policy team is made up of former Bush Cheney neocons. They are desperate to clear their names from the WMD lie and the failure to read intel.
Unlike Romney�s rush to judgment, the 9/11 Commission and subsequent investigations and outings have proven that Bush ignored the intel and that we were led into war on a false premise. It took so long for us to learn these facts that Bush won a second term before the public knew what had happened.

Yet Romney and Republicans expect that this administration would know the second something happened in Libya exactly who, what, why, and how. And not only know, or suspect, but deem it safe for all (including the CIA base the Republicans outed in their "investigation") to disclose this information to the public.

What happened in Libya is a tragedy, but there is no evidence that the administration withheld any information. In 30 years, Clarke never saw a situation where the intital intel was correct. Maybe, just maybe, this is why there was conflicting information in the beginning and new info trickling in still.

This line of attack by Romney is clearly a Rovian political strategy by a man who couldn�t even manage to show up at the Summer Olympics without insulting our greatest ally by suggesting that their security wasn�t ready for the games, because that�s what all terrorist experts recommend � get on international TV and tell the entire world that you are not prepared and cannot defend yourselves now, at this particular time and place (not). This is also not so good for tourism (read: economy). That�s our Mitt.

It has yet to occur to Mitt Romney that perhaps caution is warranted when making public statements about acts of terror or the possibility thereof. His own behavior demonstrates that he sees no need for caution � he just rushes to the nearest microphone to blurt out whatever info he thinks he has about a situation he doesn�t understand.

Romney wasn�t done stumbling through national security and foreign policy like an eager, panting puppy. He later broke protocol and security by revealing his secret meeting with M16, Britain�s Secret Intelligence Service. Romney sounded like a hyper active kid who got to sit at the grown ups� table. Once was probably enough for M16.

Romney has no experience with terrorism or combat, whereas Obama�s record on getting the bad guys is a devastating rebuke to Republicans. This won�t stop Romney from trying to smear Obama with Bush�s failures at the next debate, which will be centered around foreign policy. Romney promised his wealthy friends that he would take advantage of any hostage-like situation, and he is doing just that.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

Ditto Jerzee, Epi, Lily, and Maddie.

Shocking that ignorance is so accepted, so mainstream, and so seemingly prevalent, isn't it?


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

So GGM, you think that the US was right to invade Iraq , kill hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, destroy the country and in the process loose thousands of brave American soldiers.... all for NO good reason, all for a lie?

Well you darn well should say sorry and you darn well should spend billions to build back what you destroyed and thankfully a huge percent of Americans feel exactly the same way!


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

Shocking that ignorance is so accepted, so mainstream, and so seemingly prevalent, isn't it?

I don't think it's ignorance. It's intent.

And ditto on what Chase said.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

Well said Sharon.

I'm just wondering when apologizing became a sign a weakness?

A person, or a nation that can't or won't apologize when they are wrong is weak.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

LOL lily. "What is a sheek?"

I agree ann t. Some wounds can only be healed by a sincere apology. Sincere apologies only come from mature individuals. IMHO.


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

I know what it was when I was 15......well I really didn't know, know ..I just heard...blush!


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RE: Is This the Way It's Going to Be?

LOL Chase! - believe back then in those vintage days it (they) was (were) spelled "Sheik".

Or are we talking an incorrect spelling of "chic"? One could conceiveably bow to chic.


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