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Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on
Sat, Nov 23, 13 at 0:24

David Cain is a Winnepeg, Canada, blogger of rapititude.com, and essayist on things that make us human. The linked blog entry is engaging and in the spirit of our David52's search for the meaningless of life in our culture. :)

[[[snip]]]]
"We�ve been led into a culture that has been engineered to leave us tired, hungry for indulgence, willing to pay a lot for convenience and entertainment, and most importantly, vaguely dissatisfied with our lives so that we continue wanting things we don�t have. We buy so much because it always seems like something is still missing.

Western economies, particularly that of the United States, have been built in a very calculated manner on gratification, addiction, and unnecessary spending. We spend to cheer ourselves up, to reward ourselves, to celebrate, to fix problems, to elevate our status, and to alleviate boredom.

Can you imagine what would happen if all of America stopped buying so much unnecessary fluff that doesn�t add a lot of lasting value to our lives?

The economy would collapse and never recover.

All of America�s well-publicized problems, including obesity, depression, pollution and corruption are what it costs to create and sustain a trillion-dollar economy. For the economy to be "healthy", America has to remain unhealthy. Healthy, happy people don�t feel like they need much they don�t already have, and that means they don�t buy a lot of junk, don�t need to be entertained as much, and they don�t end up watching a lot of commercials.

The culture of the eight-hour workday is big business� most powerful tool for keeping people in this same dissatisfied state where the answer to every problem is to buy something."
[[[snip]]]

So, what do you all think about this thesis?

In the meantime, consider this recipe for curried cauliflower:

Ingredients:
•1 head of cauliflower
•2 Tbsp extra virgin olive oil
•1/2 tsp salt
•1 1/4 tsp curry powder

Instructions:

Preheat your oven to 375 degrees F. Wash the cauliflower and cut it up into smaller pieces. Place the cauliflower in a large plastic zip lock bag and add the rest of the ingredients. Now comes the fun part! Make sure the bag is sealed and shake it really well until all of the cauliflower is well coated! Spread out the cauliflower onto a cookie sheet and bake for 35-45 minutes! That’s it!

We are featuring white cauliflower from the farm this week on our availability list. Happy Thanksgiving, world.

Here is a link that might be useful: You lifestyle has already been designed


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

"So, what do you all think about this thesis?"

I think it seems true, but it's not. What is a "happy, healthy person?" It may be that the only truly happy people are homeless (but not necessarily poor, though they might be) or a little mad (but cognizant), or completely innocent. Healthy doesn't mean happy, but I think happy is healthy.


"Wash the cauliflower and cut it up into smaller pieces."

Question: Smaller than what?


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Smaller than an 6-pound head of cauliflower and small enough to fit into a zip-locked bag and perhaps conveniently sized to bite. Uniformity of pieces improves cooking qualities otherwise very small pieces shrivel to nuggets and large pieces may remain semi-cooked.

Gosh, if the cookbook authors had to give every detail in length...

I lifted this simple recipe from a cooking blog which showed pictures of the finished dish.

By the way, the state of your answer shows an apparent degree of discontent featuring argumentativeness.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

"Question: Smaller than what?"

I would guess smaller than the original head of cauliflower.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

"Smaller than what". Too funny!!!!

Marshall , you would think that the instructions to cut a head of cauliflower into smaller pieces would be obvious.
But there are some people that really need simple, step, by step instructions when it comes to recipes. Apparently Elvis is one of them.

~Ann


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 23, 13 at 6:28

Love roasted cauliflower ... as well as other veggies. Do not like or use curry though :)

As far as the article I would agree ...


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

wow ann t...meow


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

I totally agree with the thesis. However, that recipe caused me to crave coconut curry cauliflower (substitute coconut oil for olive oil), and I can only think of how soon I can get to the store to buy some cauliflower and maybe have some for lunch. I'm sure this purchase will add lasting value to my life. :)


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

I concur, as well, Ohiomom... regarding the article and the curry.

From a certain angle, I would be for a big change in how the overall economy operates... but from another angle, it's too obvious that more people would not be able to deal without the current structure, so... what to do?

Well, it's a good reason to prepare one's offspring, at least, to get along without such structures...


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Marshall, it's spot on. The problem with our modern culture (and it is very far from being only a problem for US-ians) is consumption: what we consume, how much, and what we have to do to afford it.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

A toast to the thousands of "consumers" who purchased home improvements from my company for 35 years.

My favorite recipe.

1 head of cauliflower,( cut into uniform florets)
A generous splash of olive oil
4 tablespoons of curry powder
Kosher salt to taste
Lemon pepper to taste
2 tbs cilantro leaves

(I blend the curry powder, salt, pepper and cilantro leaves in a magic bullet to blend well. )

Toss it all together.

Roasted at 425 until soft and brown.

Serve with cold Magic Hat almost pale ale.

If you don't like curry powder, substitute Adobo.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 23, 13 at 8:22

Cooking tip: When roasting vegetables you should try to cut them in uniform sizes or, as Marshall pointed out, the small pieces will overcook and shrivel.

I also love roasted brussel sprouts, and am on my way to the grocer to pick some up.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

I also love roasted brussel sprouts, and am on my way to the grocer to pick some up.

*

My contribution to Thanksgiving, too!

Roasted with shaved parmesan and a tiny sprinkling of toasted walnuts.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 23, 13 at 8:32

Demi try roasted butternut squash. Cut in pieces (uniform), drizzled with olive oil, a bit of parmesan and parsley (dried or fresh) and salt and pepper to taste. It is soooooo gooooood!

I have to admit that I prefer winter squashes :)


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Oooh! Brussels sprouts! One of my very favorite vegetables, Ohiomom... along with green beans grown and picked fresh from my garden!

Along with all the consumption today comes the disposable nature of everything... creating another facet to the issue of pollution.

Ah, yes... ain't Western civilization just grand, I ask with an exponential amount of sarcasm?


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Since I started to advertise and refinish counter tops with Spreadstone, I have spared the dump thousands of sf of pressed wood.

If you enjoy gift giving at Christmas, don't wrap the gifts. It adds to the landfill.

My granddaughter eats brussels sprouts like candy. Along with red bell peppers.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Speaking of non necessary spending, many if not most are willing to pay high margins for speed, convenience, instant gratification etc - hence why convenience stores, fast food joints, restaurants with drive-thrus, restaurants that deliver, prepared food sections and freezer sections of supermarkets do so well.

Demand for speed, convenience, instant gratification, excesses etc is somewhat inelastic. Many consumers will cut back on necessities, less desirable/addictive non necessities, or beg/borrow/steal to afford these non necessities.

Necessities are highly subjective. What many call necessities are nice-to-haves and/or gross excesses.

When we hire new workers with zero savings, one of the first things they do when they get some money in their pockets is they start ordering expensive take-out and delivery, they buy new smart phones/minutes etc.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
Sat, Nov 23, 13 at 8:32

Demi try roasted butternut squash. Cut in pieces (uniform), drizzled with olive oil, a bit of parmesan and parsley (dried or fresh) and salt and pepper to taste. It is soooooo gooooood!

I have to admit that I prefer winter squashes

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Oh, I have for years! Love it.

However, I prefer to roast it as you do and save the parmesan for after I puree it and make soup with chicken broth and half and half and bay leaves. Into the bowl of soup Idrop a dollop of sour cream and make a swirl with a toothpick, shave a tiny bit of parmesan, and sprinkle with toasted hazelnuts. Butternut squash soup is the best, and they last a long time. I've had one here for six weeks.

On my countertop large bowl of peppers of all sorts and green tomatoes I had to save from my garden before a recent freeze. I have a little device that takes out the seeds on the green chiles after I roast them and freeze for chile rellenos. Today is slicing those tiny green tomatoes and breading for fried green tomatoes and remoulade sauce at Christmas.

What was that about lifestyle? ;)

Marshall, I agree there are good points to your article.

There are some people that do get on a merry go round--I tend to see them every once in awhile on some HGTV show where some 30 something scoffs at home because it does not have stainless steel appliances (which I think may or not be going out of "style" who knows who cares) and because the granite isn't the right color and it doesn't have a man cave.

Then there are people like most of us on this forum who enjoy and appreciate material things in the world but not to impress anyone, not to feel good about ourselves, or by which to define ourselves.

We are the ones that are happy with warm feet in the winter and an old sweater and a bowl of butternut squash soup, and it's better if someone you love is there to share it with you, or you have memories of someone you love.

Those of us who think beyond what's on the top of our heads are cognizant that we are under no obligation to buy what they're selling--literally or figuratively--and I think many people our age do not buy it because we've seen the Depression through the eyes of grandparents and parents and we've seen Vietnam, and some have seen more closely our wars in the Middle East.

I will add one comment that I know many bright, talented and educated young people who are choosing to do what makes them happy--a young man with a degree in engineering from one of the finest universities in this country, a master's in finance from another prestigious university, and he is a personal trainer. He loves it. One of my daughters is off an on exciting job adventure with a most satisfying life and it is most certainly not a corporate type job.

Who knows, it may be they need to be engineers and scientists one day after satisfying their passions.

But--they're concentrating on a fulfilling job that pays the bills, family and home and realizing working their entire lives for someone else may not be the best plan. It is not like anyone can depend on working for one or two companies their entire life anymore, anyway.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

When asked, "paper or plastic?", my normal response is, "neither". I like to bring my own reusable totes, saving a tree or shrub somewhere the embarrassment of having to fly the flag of some corporation via an empty plastic bag caught on a branch, whipping in the wind.

Every time I see the above described situation, I think of how tacky and ruinous our materialistic, disposable consumerism really is... and the bigger picture of how we are all caught in the cycles that a few created with a singular purpose in mind... and how that grew out of proportion and into the giant mess of today's socioeconomic civilization and all its problems that stem from the act of creating... money and the concepts therein.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 23, 13 at 10:00

We continue to Eat, Drink, and yet still not be so Merry eh' Marshall?

Have you tried to grow the "Cheddar" variety? I've grown it twice and it looks good out there. Haven't tried the purple type, but the Cheddar one pops out on veggie dip trays and makes the carrots a wee bit jealous.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 23, 13 at 10:05

Demi I have found my children's generation is taking the turn you describe ... and are more content for it.

When the children were young and "wanted" things, I always said do you "need it" or "want it". Seems my advice actually stuck :)


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

You can shop 24/7/365 on line but they still have to be open on Thanksgiving to handle the demand!
Ok Demand is to have a demand are we to accept something other a passive aggressive admonishment from Mr Cain that we are greedy, petulant,spiritually, bankrupt or worse.
Worse? Yes worse, that unspoken (that corrosive faux moralizing that sews anxiety right out of the nursery, that your sins can never be forgiven because your just so culturally defective)
That other great Canadian Moralist Mike Myers said it best in Waynes World "we're not worthy, we're not worthy"
I'm sure I don't disagree with him but couldn't he find something more productive to do with his life (pick up trash along an interstate)
Does the world need one more bland observation of what we already might fear most about ourselves? Well at well least during commercials.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

We've enjoyed Terry O'Reilly's 30-minute NPR series "Under the Influence". It's about marketing, specifically advertising. This morning the theme was about creating the perception of a need -- to sell a product.

Years ago nobody thought twice about perspiration, body odor, bad breath, or 'ring around the collar'. Ladies wore dress shields, both genders wore perfume and perhaps sucked herbs. I imagine there were dirty rings around more than collars. It was what it was.

You know the rest. Advertising told people they needed Mum and Listerine, and the wife who didn't use Wisk on her DH's shirts was a lazy slob. None of this was geared to health; it was geared to *social acceptance* in a new society that was less agricultural. .

It's encouraging to see young people disregard the whoppers about what Advertising tells them they *need*. Now we need Seniors to stop believing they need every pharmaceutical advertised.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Have you tried to grow the "Cheddar" variety? I've grown it twice and it looks good out there. Haven't tried the purple type, but the Cheddar one pops out on veggie dip trays and makes the carrots a wee bit jealous.

We grow both the orange and purple in our garden upstate and besides roasting which I agree is delicious, we use it along with some other veggies (including multi-colored carrots) to dip in bagna cauda. Beautiful and delicious.


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Re roasted squash - yesterday we did a perfectly cured kabocha - no need to peel it, by the time its roasted the skin just falls apart.

Toss with olive oil, hot pepper flakes, ground cumin, dash of salt, 325 for an hourish. Go until its starting to caramelize - then take out of the oven, drizzle on fresh lime juice, and eat with sour cream on the side.

I see no reason why this concept couldn't be extended to cauliflower.

For brussels sprouts, I just do olive oil and salt and roast that. For some reason, last year my grocery store had bins full of very inexpensive, wonderful quality brussels sprouts, and I did indulge.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Labrea: "Does the world need one more bland observation of what we already might fear most about ourselves? Well at well least during commercials."

Perfect. Thank you, Joe. I was running out of energy when I posted last night (near the top). "Bland" is just the word for Mr. Cain's ruminations in that particular blog post, IMO. No offense to marshall; he didn't write it.

"Happy & healthy (society)": What would that be? The Eloi (without Morlocks)? There will always be Morlocks.
Find me any fantasy about the future where the "happy & healthy" really do inherit the earth without any bad guys.

My argument with Mr. Cain is that I sense he is arguing for sameness as the panacea for humankind's thirst for more. Admittedly, the line between greed and need can be fuzzy. I don't know that there is, or if there even should be, a cure for that. That need for more can be ugly, but it can also be wonderful; i.e., new discoveries result from that need. Those can be very bad (nasty weapons) or good (pencillan). Human nature is what it is.

I guess I think that Cain's "thesis" is a nice little reminder to not get too carried away, nothing more (or less).

So the cauliflower should be what, 1 1/2" X 1 1/2" or so?


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

I planted brussel sprouts in my garden but did so late.

It remains to be seen what happens.

Also kale--I like to roast that with olive oil and sea salt.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Demi, add some lemon juice and garlic to the olive oil & salt for your kale. Marinate it for 1/2 hour before roasting. It's unbelievably good.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Bland and redundant... ergo, let's just forget about it all and push forward, consuming and disposing and ruining in an ever growing global cycle that eventually does not sustain the planet or any life on it...

But anyhoo...

Need or want... that's a question I know well, Ohiomom, and have asked it and been asked it... it's generational in some families, I think. Needs are taken care of on an "as needed" basis, while wants are reserved for gifts in our family. At Christmas, the grandchildren get gifts they want, but might not necessarily need. We only have this one chance to see those little faces light up, and I wouldn't miss that for anything.

Are they wants that are overly commercial and disposable? Not if we can help it... we try to find quality items that will last and be serviceable.

Am I a perfect, shining example of ecological soundness? No... I am typing on a computer that is not really very environmentally friendly, but at least we fix and repair and upgrade instead of trashing and buying new every time a gadget is introduced... so there is that.



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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 23, 13 at 11:53

Elvis 2" would be good IMO ... I don't like them too large or too small ... and not everyone is obsessed with cooking like some of us :) As long as you try to get them about the same size is fine.

My oldest daughter hates cooking and sees it as a chore, her hubby loves her mama to cook.

I tried ... I mean I really tried to like Kale, cannot eat it. Shrug

Advertising is nothing but propoganda convincing us that just the right shampoo will give us that lustrous shine and body .. or the cream that will stop aging. Really??? LOL


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I really enjoy baked kale chips but if not done exactly right, they are *nasty*

I have never been able to learn to like cauliflower any way but raw and dipped - I am partial to spicy brown mustard but any dip will do. I cant stand cauliflower's consistency in any form but raw.
I will bake it for Mr. Mylab though because he loves it. I must try your recipe on him, Marshall.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Posted by althea z4 MN (My Page) on
Sat, Nov 23, 13 at 11:47

Demi, add some lemon juice and garlic to the olive oil & salt for your kale. Marinate it for 1/2 hour before roasting. It's unbelievably good.

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Thanks, Althea, I will try it!

My favorite use of kale is homemade fresh vegetable juice that I stumbled upon just throwing veggie s(most from the garden) into the juicer:

Kale
Tomato
Bell Pepper
Carrots
Celery
Yellow Squash
1/2 Lemon
Clove Garlic
Sea Salt

It is my favorite drink to juice.
I would bet a Bloody Mary made with this would be fabulous.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Wow! the secret to posting a successful thread is to include a recipe. Who knew? :)

I have a friend who makes horrendous kale chips. On time I split up a large batch of Tuscan kale, both of us planning to make chips. I ended up sharing my kale with neighbors while she made chips: bitter, tough, smelly. I didn't have the heart to tell her how bad those were.

Back to the OP...
Cain came upon his epiphany when wandering unemployed or mostly unemployed around the Pacific rim and New Zealand with much of his stuff on his back. Less is better when the scale and pace of life is human-sized. Been there, having lived in South America at a standard of living and with expectations closer to those of locals. The culture shock I was warned about did not appear going to South America but was most evident when I returned to Wisconsin.

I can't take seriously the comments on this board that Cain is advocating bland lifestyles or institutions or governing. No one is really focusing on his condemnation of a society promoting dissatisfaction to drive the economy or to govern a country.

Reminds of the adage of the news room: "If it bleeds, it leads.)

Read NaomI Klein's CRISIS CAPITALISM.


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I had the same sort of 'culture shock' when returning after three years in the Peace Corps - spent three years living (relatively speaking) an upper-middle class existence with a truck and a whole house to myself (courtesy of the Peace Corps) and electricity and a cook, gardener, and housekeeper, all paid for with my stipend of $55 a month. and then showed up back in the US…

Which is why I sometimes mumble on about being able to live a very happy and satisfying life using about 1/10th the energy we do here….

I was listening to some hippy on the radio last weekend talking about the American idea that Freedom = Choice, and lots of Freedom = lots of Choice. Who pointed out that aside from the waste of resources this brings on - 233 kinds of shampoo in one store - we really need this? - that more choice is actually paralyzing, and can stop people from getting ahead. Used as an example some study done with employees at a large brokerage house and mutual funds - once they got past a certain number of funds, the participation of the employees dropped - they couldn't make up their minds.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 23, 13 at 13:55

Wow! the secret to posting a successful thread is to include a recipe. Who knew? :)

.....that is what happens when you hang out with "gardeners" and mention veggies :)

David have you seen a cereal aisle? How can anyone, let alone a kid, make up their minds with so many options? :)


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At the link is how the cereal boxes are organized in the store -

“Bull’s-Eye Zone” (Second and Third Shelves from the Top)

What’s there: Best sellers and other leading brands.

Why: “Brands that sell best are always in what’s called the ‘bull’s-eye zone,’ front and center, right in your sight line. It is the best placement, and the manufacturers have to pay for it,” says Childress. Tesler adds: “There’s no advantage for the supermarket to show you the lowest-priced item in the most effective spot. So here you tend to see higher-priced items or items with the highest markup.” Secondary brands hoping to benefit from being shelved next to the leaders also pay for placement in the bull’s-eye.

Shopping tip: Look below the bull’s-eye to find similar products for a lot less, says Childress.

Kids’ Eye-Level Shelf

What’s there: Products with kid appeal.

Why: “Kids can react and reach out to a product,” says Tesler.

Shopping tip: Leave the children at home, if possible. Otherwise “you are bound to spend more money,” Liebmann says - 10 to 40 percent more, according to industry studies. “If kids are with you, give them something right up front - a balloon, a lollipop, juice, some fruit, a kid-size shopping cart - to help keep them happy and calm and to prevent them from putting things in your basket.” "

Whats kinda discouraging to me is the amount of societies' resources - intellectual effort, scientific study, chemistry, engineering, and what not to create a box of Lucky Charms and sell it to a 4 year old kid.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

The line between greed and need is not fuzzy. You need food. You need water. If you live in a harsh climate, you need shelter and clothing. If you are ill, you may need medical care or drugs. Without these, humans die.
You don't need a big screen tv. You don't need a new (or old) sofa, though they are very nice to have.
However, we have been sold a bill of goods by the 1% that greed is a virtue. And because most of us don't evaluate what we need to live, we are easily convinced that we will die without a new suede jacket or telephone.
I suspect that in North America alone, if we built employment strategies around what people really need - food, shelter, etc.- there would be enough work to keep all of us occupied for the next 20 years or so.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 23, 13 at 14:15

"Here, here, buy this!"

"No!! Over here, buy mine!"

"No! No! This one!!"

Farmers markets here have been getting a lot of vendors coming with non-agricultural items; at least one near here got its name changed to "Saturday Market". The big annual garden show here has now for years had an extensive area of stalls full of "brick-a-brack", as one participating vendor called it. And for probably quite a long time many garden centers have offered flimsy tools and other accessories that don't hold up under regular usage or really don't work well in the first place.

I figure it is all about cashing in on impulses, and not about people getting good value for their money. You can get 5 bucks out them for a piece of junk that will be fiddled with once or twice and then put on a shelf but you won't necessarily be able to sell so many 50 or 100 dollar items that are actually useful and worthwhile - to somebody that is really going to use them in a serious way for many years.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

It's also all about the fact that anything well-made is more than a north-american service-industry worker will spend.


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For those of you frowning on what is being sold to the public as something they need but don't really need and state that we can do with much less--what do you think about a government handing out free cell phones and cell time to people?

Looks like liberalism has bought into the designer lifestyle lock stock and barrel.


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Oh that is useful.


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Marshall, great thread - good article.
It made me hearken back to backpacking through Central America last February. Great time, only saw a TV 3 times that month. At home, it is constantly on even as background, afraid I'll miss some earthshaking event - it wasn't important there.
What was important was the sidewalk vendor that had hot tomales and fresh fruits, sharing a watermelon with a family nice enough to put up with me for a night, laying my cigarettes and lighter down on the bar and sharing freely while learning about another culture.
I love my family and home, but immediately after returning to the States, I started slipping back into a pre-ordained existence.
I reminisce about a simpler time and wonder if my children (who are building the American dream) would let me introduce my grandchildren to that culture or whether they are so involved with "getting ahead" that they would consider that as a dangerous thought/behaviour.
I'm thinking now about setting aside money to take 3 teenagers down to a foreign country and introduce them to a slightly different lifestyle. They may hate it - they are inured in this one.


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Thanks, Steve, I used to feel the same way until I moved my pre-teen kids to Peru for a few months. The two older ones hated it (as did their mother) so off they went back to the States. Younger kids tend not to like moving; my kids had had enough moving and changing schools and regional cultures/subcultures. Kids are acculturated to fit in, to belong, to learn the limits of their lives. Taking them away briefly to experience other cultures in safe or secure ways is much better; perhaps that is what you meant.

One of my former farm workers has taken her children to northern and eastern Europe every year to be with their father. The father is a drama director and runs programs in local languages (Norse, Finn, Hungarian, Greek, Bulgarian) staging Shakespearean plays. As the kids got older into their teens, they have resisted going off for 3-5 weeks. The older teen misses his electronics and his friends and finds no glee in living in old stone farm houses built in the 14th century.


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It's almost sad that a recipe is the catalyst for thread participation... but I fully grasp the concept, Marshallz, of the intended idea. Good thread. :-)

I think I like Nina's response the best so far, and I do think there's a lot of merit to her idea...

As I grow older and more cynical and pessimistic about the national "condition", I really want to drop out of society and go off grid... not in a "prepper/omg the zombie apocalypse is coming" kind of way... but in a more self-sustaining, self-reliant, more ecologically and environmentally friendly, off the grid sort of way.


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I have to remind myself that the world of work has changed in radical ways since my youth and hayday. Then we understood that if we worked hard, were productive and loyal, we earned enough to live decently and provide for family and plan for retirement. That was the reality of then when manufacturing and building infrastructure required many skilled hands and minds.

Today, that reality has been replaced by automation, robotics, AI, and globalized finances and economics for most Americans, leaving them with declining choice in lower paying service jobs lacking in short and long-term security. Economic recovery from the recent Great Recession has been jobless recovery unable to add much manufacturing or other decent paying jobs.

Government cannot create jobs, especially skilled manufacturing jobs of a generation ago. We are supposed to train and retrain and retrain again for a moving target of employment opportunities, all the while underemployed or unemployed. Working 2 and 3 part-time minimum-wage jobs leaves a lot of time for retraining.

If workers cannot find meaningful and decent paying jobs, how will this society sustain a decent standard of living and not the one cited as a median income when the upper 10% get most of the money?


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 23, 13 at 18:42

Marshall that is what I see, and you said it much better than I could.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

I think you meant average income, right? When Bill Gates walks into the room the average shoots up absurdly, but the median stays the same?


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No, the average is much higher than the medium, the latter figure represents the halfway point in the range of wages earned. Americans would be shocked if the Federal government started to use average income data. The inequality would be glaring.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Here we go in one concise graph - So yes, putting a Bill Gates or two into the calculation tacks on 38% more income…..

/income inequality? What income inequality? Boot straps, baby.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Ah yes, mean vs median.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Marshall, will you please post your recipe for kale chips?


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

The way of life that we've been conditioned to believe is the way and measure of success and happiness is not a sustainable one for the majority of citizens. We play the game, but the goalposts keep being moved further apart... not by the players, but by coaches disguised as players. It's a game most can't win, by design.

We still work hard, and we're still productive in many ways, but loyalty has all but been removed from the equation. What we've become through design and conditioning is not maintainable.

We might be better off if we realized that success and happiness are not tied to "what", but to "whom".

"He who dies with least toys wins, because the more you know, the less you need." - Yvon Chouinard


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Noam Chomsky, our unrepentant leftist intellectual, has a long interview reported on Alternet, part of which applies to this discussion. Why do we act against our own interests?

"Actually, there’s a famous sort of paradox posed by David Hume centuries ago. Hume is one of the founders of classical liberalism. He’s an important philosopher and a political philoso- pher. He said that if you take a look at societies around the world�"any of them�"power is in the hands of the governed, those who are being ruled. Hume asked, why don’t they use that power and overthrow the masters and take control? He says, the answer has to be that, in all societies, the most brutal, the most free, the governed can be controlled by control of opinion. If you can con trol their attitudes and beliefs and separate them from one another and so on, then they won’t rise up and overthrow you.

That does require a qualification. In the more brutal and repressive societies, controlling opinion is less important, because you can beat people with a stick. But as societies become more free, it becomes more of a problem, and we see that historically. The societies that develop the most expansive propaganda systems are also the most free societies.

The most extensive propaganda system in the world is the public relations industry, which developed in Britain and the United States. A century ago, dominant sectors recognized that enough freedom had been won by the population. They reasoned that it’s hard to control people by force, so they had to do it by turning the attitudes and opinions of the population with propaganda and other devices of separation and marginalization, and so on. Western powers have become highly skilled in this.

In the United States, the advertising and public relations industry is huge. Back in the more honest days, they called it propaganda. Now the term doesn’t sound nice, so it’s not used anymore, but it’s basically a huge propaganda system which is designed very extensively for quite specific purposes.

First of all, it has to undermine markets by trying to create irrational, uninformed consumers who will make irrational choices. That’s what advertising is about, the opposite of what a market is supposed to be, and anybody who turns on a television set can see that for themselves. It has to do with monopolization and product differentiation, all sorts of things, but the point is that you have to drive the population to irrational consumption, which does separate them from one another.

As I said, consumption is individual, so it’s not done as an act of solidarity�"so you don’t have ads on television saying, “Let’s get together and build a mass transportation system.” Who’s going to fund that? The other thing they need to do is undermine democracy the same way, so they run campaigns, political campaigns mostly run by PR agents. It’s very clear what they have to do. They have to create uninformed voters who will make irrational decisions, and that’s what the campaigns are about. Billions of dollars go into it, and the idea is to shred democracy, restrict markets to service the rich, and make sure the power gets concentrated, that capital gets concentrated and the people are driven to irrational and self-destructive behavior. And it is self-destructive, often dramatically so. "

Here is a link that might be useful: Business elites are wage class warfare


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Indeed, though they don't even need voters to make irrational decisions when both of the two parties are totally controlled by the puppet-masters.

There was a French philosopher whose name I forget who took the study of propaganda to an extreme degree. I believe his position was that all modern societies rule entirely by propaganda. Therefor to imagine that the elites themselves are not influenced by propaganda would be an error.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

As an empty nester, currently going through stuff leftover from the kids and trying go prepare for the rest of my life, I'm over all the stuff.

My morning smoothie looks like this:

1 stalk organic celery
1 cucumber
A thumb size piece of Ginger
A few Parsley leaves with stalks
A good size hand full of Baby Spinach
A smaller hand full of Kale
A squeeze of Lime
Ice and water

Throw in a good blender. Mix and share with mate and a vitamin B complex.
It's yummy!


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

It's very liberating, yet a bit frightening at the same time, to see beyond the created veil, Marshallz... to view the bigger picture, if you will... and to realize that as an individual you are powerless to stop the inevitable collision of it all.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

There is no one here who is capable of looking beyond a created veil because one doesn't know all the pieces to look for.

I have physically been outside of my regular physical environment for 4 days on this trip. I have learned much new info because of physically being here and speaking with locals, info that would Always be on the other side of the veil i normally am within. I would never have learned what i have just by reading the internet.

I have also had reinforced that I hold much power to affect the course of my life.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

When putting together a puzzle, it's often not necessary to have all the pieces in place to realize what the picture consists of.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

I'm not seeing a clear 'grand design' here. You still have to 'buy' the 'sell' -- or not.

All sales is public relations. A political campaign is selling some individual. Isn't everyone who is making a persuasive argument 'doing PR'? Your minister? Your teacher? The mother of a four-year-old? ("Just try the delicious spinach, dear.") Hay? ("Come dance with me!")

We are all constantly being 'sold to' -- even the non-conformist-weighted block on this forum. Are we so sure we don't also 'buy in'? Can you 'mold public opinion' without convincing individual peeps?


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

I think any of us who have lived in another culture for any length of time, then returning to the wealth of America can identify with the culture shock syndrome. I spent a year in Europe, mostly in France. Despite what romantics would have you believe, life there was still pretty austere, the nation was still in recovery from WW II. We heard true stories from seniors of having to resort to eating dogs and cats, during the occupation and siege years.

Just take fashion contrasts: coming from girls' societies who cherished a wardrobe of Pappagallo shoes and Lanz dresses and the cool Camel's Hair coats, to be plunged into a society where young women had very limited wardrobes, maybe 3 or 4 or 5 outfits that they wore over and over again. No pastels, mostly navy, black, brown. School kids wore the same uniforms, which saved them money and were practical. Meals were prepared from scratch: stews, soups, etc. No take-out places! You could linger for hours over a cup of tea in a cafe, just enjoying the street life. (Simple pleasures!).

People had fewer expectations. There was more gratitude for the small unexpected gifts of the moment.

Hot water was still a luxury. Only one bath a week was allowed in my French family.

But life in France was luxurious in contrast to what I saw in my travels to Russia, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, and Romania.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

We heard true stories from seniors of having to resort to eating dogs and cats, during the occupation and siege years.

*

If they'd shown more courage as a united nation they might not have had to.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

demifloyd -- Rationing continued *in England* for years after the end of WWII. My mother sent 'care packages' to my aunt and uncle in Yorkshire,, which they shared with the owners of the woolen mill where he had been hired to modernize operations. (Mom and I were given the royal treatment -- in the company Rolls -- when we visited in 1955.)


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Yes, I know.

I was referring to the taking of France by the Nazis.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

  • Posted by rosie NE Georgia 7A/B (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 27, 13 at 7:00

Well, you're both right, in your different arguments of course. As for Demi's perceived lack of courage in the French, when is the last time we in the United States met a big challenge as it has to in order to to win out -- as a mostly united people?

From Marshallz's post, "...power is in the hands of the governed, those who are being ruled. Hume asked, why don’t they use that power and overthrow the masters and take control? He says, the answer has to be that, in all societies, the most brutal, the most free, the governed can be controlled by control of opinion. If you can control their attitudes and beliefs and SEPARATE THEM FROM ONE ANOTHER and so on, then they won’t rise up and overthrow you.

Our own enemies of power to the people, who realized they would have to neutralize us to get what they want, have used our faults to turn us on ourselves. Divided, some of us are so busy trying to defeat the "other side" that they are totally unwilling to instead consider what our real problems are and who's behind them. IMO, this incredibly foolish indulgence of our worst traits is why we should have great, appalled empathy for the French of the 1930s.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Well said, Rosie.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Posted by rosie NE Georgia 7A/B (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 27, 13 at 7:00

Well, you're both right, in your different arguments of course. As for Demi's perceived lack of courage in the French, when is the last time we in the United States met a big challenge as it has to in order to to win out -- as a mostly united people?

*

World War II and actually immediately after 9-11.

I can tell you this though about the people of this country--if we were invaded like France was--physically, we would as a nation be more brave and fight harder than they did, in my opinion.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Rosie, thank you for pounding that point home, the most important political point of our generations.

Demi, prior to WWII, fascist parties were strong in many Western European countries. During the war Norway, Finland, Sweden, France and Catholic parts of the Balkans were ruled in part for a time by fascists and collaborators. Sweden remained "neutral" but got rich supplying the Third Reich with raw materials and volunteers for the military. Norway's resistant movement got to be so troublesome that Germany ended up occupying the country. France surrendered and was allowed to set up a Vichy (fascist) government in the southern part of the country, until the resistant movements there became too troublesome and the Germans took over security with troops and the Gestapo. Finland was in a war with the Soviet Union in 1939 and battled the Soviets until the end of the war in part allied with the Germans.

I think you are presenting simplistic sloganeering in place of sound historical analysis.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

And then again, look what happened during the "Vietnam era"... the draft was impressed for a reason... there was a lot of anti-war sentiment and protest against that "police action", and a lot of draftees hightailed it for the Canadian border, not seeing any sense in losing life or limb for something they didn't believe in.

There will always be those who cry patriotism and can't wait to put on a uniform and go shoot an enemy, regardless of the underlying reason... but uniting against an invading force may go a little differently than some envision... not everyone is willing to put their life on the line in the moment.

Just because a country western song says we will all unite against a common enemy doesn't mean we will.

We certainly haven't yet.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

"if they had shown more courage as a united nation, they might not have had to...."

What a simplistic, biased, ignorant statement!

Thank you, rosie and marshall.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

I think, Woodnymph, that statement might be an example of the "American exceptionalism" that is mentioned from time to time within the forum.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

I tried the curried cauliflower recipe with coconut oil and my own curry blend Sunday. It is really good. I can't wait to make it again.

One of the things that stood out in the op essay was this paragraph:

"I suppose I do it because I feel I’ve regained a certain stature, now that I am again an amply-paid professional, which seems to entitle me to a certain level of wastefulness. There is a curious feeling of power you get when you drop a couple of twenties without a trace of critical thinking. It feels good to exercise that power of the dollar when you know it will “grow back” pretty quickly anyway.

I think he is saying that buying luxury goods, symbols of wealth even on a small scale as in a cup of "designer" coffee, is mostly an expression of power. He's probably right.

Pope Francis made some shockingly good observations on the economy of power. I agree with the Pope. He is certainly a good model for those who want to disentangle their lives from an economic system based on power by living more simply even with vast wealth at his disposal.

Here is just a section on economics from his recent exhortation.
"I. SOME CHALLENGES OF TODAY’S WORLD

52. In our time humanity is experiencing a turning-point in its history, as we can see from the advances being made in so many fields. We can only praise the steps being taken to improve people’s welfare in areas such as health care, education and communications. At the same time we have to remember that the majority of our contemporaries are barely living from day to day, with dire consequences. A number of diseases are spreading. The hearts of many people are gripped by fear and desperation, even in the so-called rich countries. The joy of living frequently fades, lack of respect for others and violence are on the rise, and inequality is increasingly evident. It is a struggle to live and, often, to live with precious little dignity. This epochal change has been set in motion by the enormous qualitative, quantitative, rapid and cumulative advances occuring in the sciences and in technology, and by their instant application in different areas of nature and of life. We are in an age of knowledge and information, which has led to new and often anonymous kinds of power.

No to an economy of exclusion

53. Just as the commandment “Thou shalt not kill” sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say “thou shalt not” to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills. How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points? This is a case of exclusion. Can we continue to stand by when food is thrown away while people are starving? This is a case of inequality. Today everything comes under the laws of competition and the survival of the fittest, where the powerful feed upon the powerless. As a consequence, masses of people find themselves excluded and marginalized: without work, without possibilities, without any means of escape.

Human beings are themselves considered consumer goods to be used and then discarded. We have created a “disposable” culture which is now spreading. It is no longer simply about exploitation and oppression, but something new. Exclusion ultimately has to do with what it means to be a part of the society in which we live; those excluded are no longer society’s underside or its fringes or its disenfranchised �" they are no longer even a part of it. The excluded are not the “exploited” but the outcast, the “leftovers”.

54. In this context, some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting. To sustain a lifestyle which excludes others, or to sustain enthusiasm for that selfish ideal, a globalization of indifference has developed. Almost without being aware of it, we end up being incapable of feeling compassion at the outcry of the poor, weeping for other people’s pain, and feeling a need to help them, as though all this were someone else’s responsibility and not our own. The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase; and in the meantime all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us.

No to the new idolatry of money

55. One cause of this situation is found in our relationship with money, since we calmly accept its dominion over ourselves and our societies. The current financial crisis can make us overlook the fact that it originated in a profound human crisis: the denial of the primacy of the human person! We have created new idols. The worship of the ancient golden calf (cf. Ex 32:1-35) has returned in a new and ruthless guise in the idolatry of money and the dictatorship of an impersonal economy lacking a truly human purpose. The worldwide crisis affecting finance and the economy lays bare their imbalances and, above all, their lack of real concern for human beings; man is reduced to one of his needs alone: consumption.

56. While the earnings of a minority are growing exponentially, so too is the gap separating the majority from the prosperity enjoyed by those happy few. This imbalance is the result of ideologies which defend the absolute autonomy of the marketplace and financial speculation. Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control. A new tyranny is thus born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules. Debt and the accumulation of interest also make it difficult for countries to realize the potential of their own economies and keep citizens from enjoying their real purchasing power. To all this we can add widespread corruption and self-serving tax evasion, which have taken on worldwide dimensions. The thirst for power and possessions knows no limits. In this system, which tends to devour everything which stands in the way of increased profits, whatever is fragile, like the environment, is defenseless before the interests of a deified market, which become the only rule.

No to a financial system which rules rather than serves

57. Behind this attitude lurks a rejection of ethics and a rejection of God. Ethics has come to be viewed with a certain scornful derision. It is seen as counterproductive, too human, because it makes money and power relative. It is felt to be a threat, since it condemns the manipulation and debasement of the person. In effect, ethics leads to a God who calls for a committed response which is outside of the categories of the marketplace. When these latter are absolutized, God can only be seen as uncontrollable, unmanageable, even dangerous, since he calls human beings to their full realization and to freedom from all forms of enslavement. Ethics �" a non-ideological ethics �" would make it possible to bring about balance and a more humane social order. With this in mind, I encourage financial experts and political leaders to ponder the words of one of the sages of antiquity: “Not to share one’s wealth with the poor is to steal from them and to take away their livelihood. It is not our own goods which we hold, but theirs”.[55]

58. A financial reform open to such ethical considerations would require a vigorous change of approach on the part of political leaders. I urge them to face this challenge with determination and an eye to the future, while not ignoring, of course, the specifics of each case. Money must serve, not rule! The Pope loves everyone, rich and poor alike, but he is obliged in the name of Christ to remind all that the rich must help, respect and promote the poor. I exhort you to generous solidarity and a return of economics and finance to an ethical approach which favours human beings.

No to the inequality which spawns violence

59. Today in many places we hear a call for greater security. But until exclusion and inequality in society and between peoples is reversed, it will be impossible to eliminate violence. The poor and the poorer peoples are accused of violence, yet without equal opportunities the different forms of aggression and conflict will find a fertile terrain for growth and eventually explode. When a society �" whether local, national or global �" is willing to leave a part of itself on the fringes, no political programmes or resources spent on law enforcement or surveillance systems can indefinitely guarantee tranquility. This is not the case simply because inequality provokes a violent reaction from those excluded from the system, but because the socioeconomic system is unjust at its root. Just as goodness tends to spread, the toleration of evil, which is injustice, tends to expand its baneful influence and quietly to undermine any political and social system, no matter how solid it may appear. If every action has its consequences, an evil embedded in the structures of a society has a constant potential for disintegration and death. It is evil crystallized in unjust social structures, which cannot be the basis of hope for a better future. We are far from the so-called “end of history”, since the conditions for a sustainable and peaceful development have not yet been adequately articulated and realized.

60. Today’s economic mechanisms promote inordinate consumption, yet it is evident that unbridled consumerism combined with inequality proves doubly damaging to the social fabric. Inequality eventually engenders a violence which recourse to arms cannot and never will be able to resolve. This serves only to offer false hopes to those clamouring for heightened security, even though nowadays we know that weapons and violence, rather than providing solutions, create new and more serious conflicts. Some simply content themselves with blaming the poor and the poorer countries themselves for their troubles; indulging in unwarranted generalizations, they claim that the solution is an “education” that would tranquilize them, making them tame and harmless. All this becomes even more exasperating for the marginalized in the light of the widespread and deeply rooted corruption found in many countries �" in their governments, businesses and institutions �" whatever the political ideology of their leaders.

Some cultural challenges

61. We also evangelize when we attempt to confront the various challenges which can arise.[56] On occasion these may take the form of veritable attacks on religious freedom or new persecutions directed against Christians; in some countries these have reached alarming levels of hatred and violence. In many places, the problem is more that of widespread indifference and relativism, linked to disillusionment and the crisis of ideologies which has come about as a reaction to anything which might appear totalitarian. This not only harms the Church but the fabric of society as a whole. We should recognize how in a culture where each person wants to be bearer of his or her own subjective truth, it becomes difficult for citizens to devise a common plan which transcends individual gain and personal ambitions.

62. In the prevailing culture, priority is given to the outward, the immediate, the visible, the quick, the superficial and the provisional. What is real gives way to appearances. In many countries globalization has meant a hastened deterioration of their own cultural roots and the invasion of ways of thinking and acting proper to other cultures which are economically advanced but ethically debilitated. This fact has been brought up by bishops from various continents in different Synods. The African bishops, for example, taking up the Encyclical Sollicitudo Rei Socialis, pointed out years ago that there have been frequent attempts to make the African countries “parts of a machine, cogs on a gigantic wheel. This is often true also in the field of social communications which, being run by centres mostly in the northern hemisphere, do not always give due consideration to the priorities and problems of such countries or respect their cultural make-up”.[57] By the same token, the bishops of Asia “underlined the external influences being brought to bear on Asian cultures. New patterns of behaviour are emerging as a result of over-exposure to the mass media… As a result, the negative aspects of the media and entertainment industries are threatening traditional values, and in particular the sacredness of marriage and the stability of the family”.[58]"

Here is a link that might be useful: exhortation - no to an economy of exclusion


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

If everybody would settle for simplicity there would be no strife.

IOW, without human nature there would be no human problems.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

It's funny how greatly my outlook has changed since I've gotten older and a little less able, and perhaps a little more wise about a lot of things... simplicity is something to strive for, and complication and "conditioned socioeconomic design" are something to move far away from, as I see it. I much prefer living a simple life closer to the earth. I find it of greater benefit in so many ways.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Looks like it's a "bash demi by insulting her intelligence day."

We don't get too many of those. I'm curious to see if demi responds to any of these, will the subject then change to "it's all about demi" mode? Those all-to-common mini pile-ons are amusing and could add a holiday touch.

Let's summarize:

Demi says: "Yes, I know.
I was referring to the taking of France by the Nazis." and "World War II and actually immediately after 9-11.

I can tell you this though about the people of this country--if we were invaded like France was--physically, we would as a nation be more brave and fight harder than they did, in my opinion."

Outrageous! Demi needs to be taken down a peg or two.

Marshall's analysis: "I think you are presenting simplistic sloganeering in place of sound historical analysis."

Jodi's wisdom: "Just because a country western song says we will all unite against a common enemy doesn't mean we will.

We certainly haven't yet."

Huh? Jodi didn't hear about either World War, apparently. Okay. BTW yes I know that aside from Pearl Harbor we weren't actually attacked, but we did present a united front.

Woodnymph2:

***if they had shown more courage as a united nation, they might not have had to....**

What a simplistic, biased, ignorant statement!

Thank you, rosie and marshall."

More sage observations from jodi:

"I think, Woodnymph, that statement might be an example of the "American exceptionalism" that is mentioned from time to time within the forum."

I think what demi said was not of great import; nor was it particularly controversial. I'm pretty sure none of you were in the French Resistance. So what's the big deal with believing that Americans would a better job of resisting invasion from outside than the French did during WWII. Disagree with that opinion if you will, but no need to disparage same.

Do you people wake up crabby?





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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Pat are you saying human nature is antithetical to cooperative engagement?


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

If he is then he is speaking in contradictions. Clannism/tribalism runs deep in many cultures, expressed in modern social systems as collective responses to disasters. These responses are perhaps private (eg Red Cross relief) or governmental (eg FEMA).

On Demi...

I was not piling on but calling thoughtless criticism for what it was. The French were not alone in pandering to the power of the Nazis and the "ideals" of fascism.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

"I think what demi said was not of great import; nor was it particularly controversial. I'm pretty sure none of you were in the French Resistance. So what's the big deal with believing that Americans would a better job of resisting invasion from outside than the French did during WWII. Disagree with that opinion if you will, but no need to disparage same."

Were people not offended by Mark Wahlberg's comments after 9/11? I would put them on the same level.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

American's complete disregard for WHY 9/11 happened is a mystery to me -- as is our support for applying 'more of the same' in 'retribution'.

I came much closer to understanding what it was like to be a German opposed to the Nazi's when the Bush administration began sweeping up 'suspects' for imprisonment without a charge and 'rendition'. (Even the words are Orwellian.)


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

French resistance movement was slow to develop and poorly organized except for the Communists with lots of apparent ratting out one another. For lots of Europeans, the struggle was against the Bolsheviks and indigenous Marxists in labor unions and very well developed political movements. Germany was seen by many as the natural leader against Marxism.

Americans and propaganda have worked to change history.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Dave:

"I was listening to some hippy on the radio last weekend talking about the American idea that Freedom = Choice, and lots of Freedom = lots of Choice. Who pointed out that aside from the waste of resources this brings on - 233 kinds of shampoo in one store - we really need this? - that more choice is actually paralyzing, and can stop people from getting ahead. "

And then Ohiomom chimes in:

"David have you seen a cereal aisle? How can anyone, let alone a kid, make up their minds with so many options?"

I know I'm the one that's always talking about the Soviet Commies and I'm the one that always gets snark for living in the "past" like it was ancient history.

I'm just a wee bit older than you two and a lot older than most of the other youngin's on this forum.

I have such distinct memories as a wee lad, in the 1950's, when it wasn't clear who was going to win out. Would it be the Pinko Commie or the Capitalist Pig.

And one of the very distinct memories I had about the debates at the time was EXACTLY, and I mean EXACTLY this kind of talk. Very clearly it was stated what a waste it was for us to have, at the time, so many choices of toothpaste. The EXACT same argument.

Somehow, and you can tell me how, it looks like having all those choices turns out to be the winning formula.

And what did you learn from the Commie experiment?

Those who fail to learn from history... and all that....

Hay


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

I'm very grateful for Woodnympth's contribution to this thread as well as Marshall's and Rosie's.
Thanks to you all for keeping it real.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Wonderful opportunity to continue Hayoff's "logic": Capitalism beat communism because we produced more kinds of toothpaste.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Are we better off to have lost community based health systems ("socialism") to hospital conglomerates?

The private-practice MD is disappearing, absorbed into a hospital 'network' that runs for-profit health services from the maternity wards to hospices.

"I'm the CEO of X-Hosptial. I'm here to help you through every stage of your life (as long as there is a profit in it for me)."

And this is better than having an elected government control care and costs of health care for all the citizens?

I admit it, Senator McCarthy, I have been a member of the board of a local VNA -- until hospitals saw the profit in controlling the loop of hospital, to home care, to nursing care, and back to the hospital routine. Yea! Capitalism! Costs soar. Care is rationed.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

"Wonderful opportunity to continue Hayoff's "logic": Capitalism beat communism because we produced more kinds of toothpaste."

Not because we produced more kinds of toothpaste.

Because we let people decide how many kinds of toothpaste to produce.

Hay


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Fri, Nov 29, 13 at 13:56

>What a simplistic, biased, ignorant statement!<

Save that one for future use, there are always numerous occasions here where it is apt.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

I have not been on this thread at all. I agree with the essay at the beginning completely, but I wanted to get back to veggie recipe

I made for Thanksgiving yesterday roasted veggies, and they were spectacular. Butternut squash, onions ,parsnips, turnips ,cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, sweet potato,carrots. Mixed them by hand with olive oil balsamic vinegar, salt ,pepper, and added my fresh herbs, rosemary, oregano and basil . Roasted at 450 for 30 minutes spread out on cookie sheets till caramelized. YUM!!


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Well, now when I walk down the toothpaste aisle, I'll stop, whip out a miniature, parade-waver US Flag, and carry it past the Colgate and Crest racks in homage to all that freedom.

And when I get to the breakfast cereal aisle? Set down my boom box with the loop tape of the National Anthem sung by Christina Aguilera, and get down on my knees in thanks, tears running down my face, to be free from the iron fist of tyranny.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Okay. Just not Lee Greenwood even though he's proud and knows he's free.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Hoot! I can hear the patriotic "snap crackle and pop" from here!


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Hey, I'm listening to Christine's 2011 super bowl rendition.

And if this doesn't bring tears to your eyes……

Here is a link that might be useful: link, in case you've forgotten


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Hey Marshall - I made your cauliflower recipe for dinner this evening and it was delicious! DH and I agreed that it is by far the best cauliflower we've eaten and that we shall cook it this way from now on. I added a bit more olive oil - 2 1/2 Tbs - and a smidge less curry. Didn't add anything else, although I usually change recipes a bit. With it we had mashed sweet potatoes and spinach-corn casserole, from yesterday, and DH George Foreman-ed some basil pesto sausage franks. A very tasty meal.

I've often made roast potatoes with a few other veggies this way, but using lots of herbs instead of curry. So this was new.

Thank you!
Sable & Mr. Sable, all full and comfy


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Sable, love the review! We had grapeleaf-wrapped lamb and rice with unknown but delicious spices prepared by a caterer who buys produce from our farm and her ginger-rich cranberry chutney to go along with our baked yams and assorted vegetables. Yummy!


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

"Well, now when I walk down the toothpaste aisle, I'll stop, whip out a miniature, parade-waver US Flag, and carry it past the Colgate and Crest racks in homage to all that freedom.
And when I get to the breakfast cereal aisle? Set down my boom box with the loop tape of the National Anthem sung by Christina Aguilera, and get down on my knees in thanks, tears running down my face, to be free from the iron fist of tyranny."

A nice gesture, but not really necessary.

How about, as you walk by the toilet paper aisle, you just thank your lucky stars that you have a choice at all.

Venezuela elections: Empty shelves...

"It is quite common these days to see queues outside shops where there has been a fresh delivery of milk or toilet paper - basic goods that many Venezuelans no longer take for granted."

pnbrown, you paying attention?

They look like happy shoppers, don't they?

Hay


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Milk and toilet paper... just two more items that have been added to the overall "design" of Western civilization...

We consume so much because we're conditioned to... not because we have to.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Marshall - I wonder if your grapeleaf dish was flavored with za'atar, which is wild thyme, often with some ground sesame seeds and sumac added. Very traditional in Levantine cooking, it gives that delicious "what is that?" scent and flavor to food from the eastern Mediterranean.

I use it a lot on chicken (I rarely cook red meat and never lamb), and sometimes in rice. It's also wonderful as a large dab in a small saucer of olive oil, for a pita or bread dip.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Sable, I shall ask the caterer Kim when I deliver her Wed. order of veggies and herbs. I do grow za'atar as a kind of marjoram, having much the leaf and aroma of that herb. I get seed from a Virginia herb company and start seed during the spring for setting out in later summer. She spoke of the dish as Turkish in origin but I also recognize the dish as having some Armenian links.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

I forgot to mention that during last Sunday's garden tour for an organic gardening club, I was offered a similar menu item by a Japanese woman. She apologized because she was unable to find a suitable ginger leaf to wrap the beef/rice/herb mixture. The leaf apparently adds a lot of aromatics to the inner ingredients during steaming in bamboo baskets. I did eat the grape leaf-wrapped dish but found the flavor pretty bland. I'll have to try gingerleaf wrapping.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Hay, the usual binary thinking from you: as if our only two choices are a pretend free market where a nominally republican government is controlled by moneyed elites or a soviet-style failed communism where the machinery of power is controlled by bosses large and small who line their own nests. Yes, of those two choices the peasant is better off with our brand of capitalism - just don't be a peasant in a foreign target of the system.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Maybe Sweden would be a better comparative country than Venezuela re the pitfalls of the socialist life style.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

"....our only two choices are a pretend free market where a nominally republican government is controlled by moneyed elites or a soviet-style failed communism where the machinery of power is controlled by bosses large and small who line their own nests."

It's not so clear to me that anyone would ever "choose" a "soviet-style failed communism".

Early on, simply by "choosing" to entrust your life to a socialist/"progressive"/communist movement, you've set yourself on a path that will lead to the cliff. There's no turning back.

It's a system that people will always be trying to find a means of getting around and that, in itself, will necessitate more and more government control to "fix" the problems that are created.

FDR wanted to control wage prices in WWII. Fine. Companies, to get around it gave "free" healthcare to compete.....Today we have to have a law that forces everyone to carry insurance to take care of the problems
we find in having our healthcare tied to our employment.....

Hay


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

"Maybe Sweden would be a better comparative country than Venezuela re the pitfalls of the socialist life style."

Maybe Greece would be a better example than Sweden re the pitfalls of Socialism.

Hay


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Hay, you have to be kidding. National tax avoidance is not socialism. You are embarrassing yourself.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

As recently as 2012, 8.55% of the Greek Parliament were Commies

"Founded in 1918, the Communist Party of Greece (Greek: Κομμουνιστικό Κόμμα Ελλάδας, Kommounistikó Kómma Elládas), better known by its initials, ΚΚΕ (usually pronounced by Greeks as "koo-koo-eh" or "kappa-kappa-epsilon"), is the oldest party on the Greek political scene. KKE was founded on 4 November 1918 as the Socialist Labour Party of Greece."

The name changes, but the philosophy stays the same.

Hay


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Avanti o popolo, alla riscossa,
Bandiera rossa, Bandiera rossa.
Avanti o popolo, alla riscossa,
Bandiera rossa trionferà.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Para bailar la bamba
Para bailar la bamba se necesita una poca de gracia
Una poca de gracia para m para t y arriba y arriba
Y arriba y arriba por t ser, por t ser, por t ser

Yo no soy marinero
Yo no soy marinero
Soy capitan, soy capitan, soy capitan

Bamba bamba
Bamba bamba
Bamba bamba

Para bailar la bamba
Para bailar la bamba se necesita una poca de gracia
Una poca de gracia para m para t y arriba y arriba

Para bailar la bamba
Para bailar la bamba se necesita una poca de gracia
Una poca de gracia para m para t y arriba y arriba
Y arriba y arriba por t ser, por t ser, por t ser

Bamba bamba
Bamba bamba
Bamba bamba
Bamba bamba

____
Songwriters
Ritchie Valens

Published by
EMI LONGITUDE MUSIC


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

When Hayroll is drumming his obsessions, I have the urge to break out singing the Internationale followed by Marseilles, both in French of course. I don't know enough Greek.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

I feel sure the wittiest replies in these threads are those I don't have the skills to interpret. I guess they would lose something if they had an English translation? :)


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Steve, I posted mine because nancy made it look like so much fun ;-)

Here's the translation, for those of you who are not Spanish-literate:

La Bamba

In order to dance La Bamba
In order to dance La Bamba a little bit of grace is needed
A little bit of grace and something else
Ah! Up and up
And up and up and up I'll go

I'm not a sailor
I'm not a sailor but I'll become one for you
I'll become one for you, I'll become one for you

Bamba, bamba, bamba, bamba
Bamba, bamba
Bamba

In order to dance La Bamba
In order to dance La Bamba one needs a little bit of grace
A little bit of grace and something else
Ah! Up and up
And up and up and up I'll go

I'm not a sailor
I'm not a sailor, I'm a captain
I'm a captain, I'm a captain

Bamba, bamba
Bamba, bamba
Bamba, bamba
Bamba, bamba

I'm not a sailor
I'm not a sailor
I'm a captain, I'm a captain, I'm a captain

Bamba, bamba,
Bamba, bamba
Bamba, bamba
Bamba


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Avanti o popolo...Forward people, to the rescue
Red flag, red flag
Forward people, to the rescue
Red flag will triumph.

Isn't the internet just the most awsomest thing?

And for Hay with his fascination of all things Venezuelan...

Gloria al bravo pueblo
que el yugo lanzó
la Ley respetandola
virtud y honor.
Abajo cadenas!
Gritaba el Señor
y el pobre en su chozalibertad pidió.
A este santo nombre
tembló de pavor
el vil egoism
que otra vez triunfó.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

SMH


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Elvis,
It probably does lose something in the translation, but thanks.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Forward people, to the rescue

I think in this context, revolution (in the sense of a revolt) is a more apt translation. Onward is also an alternative translation for avanti. Popolo also has the connotation of the working masses.

The song was sung by Italian partisans.

There's a scene towards the end of Bertolucci's 1900 (if you're still awake after two hours), after the arrival of triumphant partigiani announcing the defeat of the fascisti, where the popolo bring out their long-hidden symbol of socialism, a giant red flag, while whistling Bandiera Rossa. (Bandera Roja, for elvis).

Those evil socialists, fighting against the fascists, same as the U.S. soldiers.

Bandiera Rossa


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Duluth,fyi my smh was not directed at you. :)


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

That's why I love this forum - introduced to many things that would normally be outside of my scope of existence.
Thanks for all the info and the links.


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

Thanks, epi, but it would have been okay of it was. :-)


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RE: Your lifestyle has already been designed...

I haven't enjoyed a smh in ages (or is that any ages?).


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