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Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 3, 10 at 2:05

From Andrew Sullivan's blogazanza following the returns, this excrutiating report:

"A very depressing result in Iowa as all three Justices who voted for marriage equality in the state constitution are removed after a brutal campaign against them by NOM. This has never happened before in Iowa's history of allowing such votes since 1962. NOM is also trying to remove marriage rights from gay couples in New Hampshire - and they may have secured a veto-proof majority to rip gay couples legally apart.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kicking out judges


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

  • Posted by jodik 5 Central IL (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 3, 10 at 6:21

And the regression begins... looks like only time will tell, but moving backward in the equal/civil rights arena is not what this country needs. If anything, we need more acceptance and a society willing to work together for the betterment of everyone. I hope an era of intolerance and division didn't just get ushered in...


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

My DH might be right. He said we should all start an email campaign to the party leaders, including the Tea Party. Get out of our bedrooms and private lives, and leave the law alone. If gays want to marry, how does that hurt you, choice is the law, not politics. These are not political platforms. The Supreme Court should step in on gay marriage, equality for all. These are not political issues and a pox on any politician that uses them as such.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Can Roe v. Wade be next?


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

  • Posted by jodik 5 Central IL (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 3, 10 at 7:19

Unfortunately, it's these types of personal issues that make people so reactionary. Honestly, does it really matter what the neighbors do behind closed doors? No. But politicians know what buttons to push to gain our reactions, and the more personal the issue, the more passionate our reaction.

It would be nice if they'd stick to the issues that affect us all, and stay out of our private lives. They need to devote more time and energy to the actual governing process.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

These are not political issues and a pox on any politician that uses them as such.

Coming from someone who just voted for anti Gay Marriage candidates.

Unbelievable.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

"My DH might be right. He said we should all start an email campaign to the party leaders, including the Tea Party. Get out of our bedrooms and private lives, and leave the law alone. If gays want to marry, how does that hurt you, choice is the law, not politics. These are not political platforms"


Too late! Don't try to make nice now.

You voted to deny equal rights to gays.
You voted for our politicians to be inside our bedrooms.
You voted against separation of church and state.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Coming from someone who just voted for anti Gay Marriage candidates.

Unbelievable.

Beat me to it, Maddie.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Trying to play nice us.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Oh gee thats too bad for them.
Brian Brown of NOM predicts the overturn of Marriage in New Hampshire & Iowa he was positively gleeful on his Tweet.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

There was a similar case in California yet Californians kicked their butts.

Here is a link that might be useful: Source.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

  • Posted by jodik 5 Central IL (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 3, 10 at 10:19

Here comes the hate and intolerance... justified by... what?


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Taking back America!


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Walking Backwards...

  • Posted by jodik 5 Central IL (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 3, 10 at 10:43

Taking it back to where? Or when?

Doesn't it make more sense to take it forward, into a better future?


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RE: ...Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Just what made them think it's "theirs"? Taking it away is closer to the truth.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Are there any same sex marriage cases due to come forward to the Supreme Court as a Constitutional issue?


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

I'm against gay marriage because I'm against marriage. It is a farce by which two people are legally joined until they divorce.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

I remain grateful that the other ideologuse lost. Tancredo, O'Donnell & Angle and that looney toons Paldino lost here.
Even his concession was stupid.
Anyway the bill for the feast will come pretty soon & the true battle for the remnants of the Republican party will commence. Like it or not a coalition party was elected last night all using the name Republican and the agendas from what I've been listening to.
A Massachusetts Judge Tauro challenged the defense of Marriage act as Unconstitutional.
Tauro said denial of benefits violates the Constitution's equality guarantee. Tauro also ruled that the U.S. law intrudes on state authority.(I've been told this is weak)
"He rejected the idea that the law advanced a federal interest in nurturing heterosexual marriage over homosexual relations. Tauro said he could see no way that denying benefits to same-sex spouses "might encourage homosexual people to marry members of the opposite sex."
Perry V Schwarzenneger (excuse the spelling if wrong) is also heading towards the Supreme Court and probably has a better chance of winning or so I'm told but I'm not that well acquainted with all it's details.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

These are not political issues and a pox on any politician that uses them as such.

Coming from someone who just voted for anti Gay Marriage candidates.

Unbelievable.

C,mon maddie, tell us what Obama and the dems have done to promote the rights of gays to marry. I'd be interested to know.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Coming from someone who just voted for anti Gay Marriage candidates, displaying the complete lack of credibility and decency, for all to see.

Don't bother.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

You can also forget the repeal of DADT by this wingnut Congress.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Right maddie..your silence other than your usual little quips speaks volumes.

And you think the dem congress didn't have time to repeal it kt?


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

C,mon maddie, tell us what Obama and the dems have done to promote the rights of gays to marry

Atty. Gen. Jerry Brown urges judge to allow same-sex marriages to resume while opponents wait on appeal

eMeg and iCarly are against same-sex marriage while Governor-elect Brown and Senator Boxer support gay marriage. AG-elect Kamala Harris has stated that she would not defend CA's Prop 8 - the same position Brown took as AG. Senator Boxer has also co-sponsored legislation to end DADT.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

According to the President, at this morning's news conference...DADT is pending, waiting for a survey of the Military to see what has to be done, in what order, etc. to put it into effect.

My question is.....what's the big deal? All they really have to to is announce it, and it's a done deal. Shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to sign a piece of paper - and tell the homophobes to like it or lump it.


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Republicans in Senate Block DADT

And you think the dem congress didn't have time to repeal it kt?

The Democrats were not the problem.
Senate Republicans Block Defense Bill, 'Don't Ask Don't Tell' Repeal

House Passes DADT Repeal Amendment


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

My question is.....what's the big deal? All they really have to to is announce it, and it's a done deal. Shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to sign a piece of paper - and tell the homophobes to like it or lump it.

That's pretty naive. It's never an easy process when you are dealing with the military.


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?????RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Senate Republicans, led by John McCain of Arizona, had objected to Congress acting on a repeal before the Pentagon has completed an ongoing review of the impacts of changing the policy. That report is due in December.

I also would like to know that if my son or daughter was gay, that I would have assurances to their safety in the military, wouldn't you?

Obama told MTV he believes marriage is "between a man and a woman" and that he is "not in favor of gay marriage."

And you voted for this man?


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Yet again...

Moving the goal posts after a challenging question has been answered.

How many times has this happened?


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Majority of troops indifferent to open service: reports

The study, which is due to Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Dec. 1, will include the results of surveys that were sent earlier this year to service members and their family members. These survey results will reportedly demonstrate a majority of troops are indifferent to having openly gay, lesbian and bisexual people in the military.

The troops may be indifferent, but not so Republicans in Congress.

McKeon wants defense budget free of 'social agenda' items

Washington (CNN) -- The top Republican on the House Armed Services Committee says he wants a bigger defense budget that's not "weighed down" by social agenda items, an apparent swipe at the president's efforts to end the ban on openly gay troops serving in the military and a warning to Democratic senators who might try to push it through before relinquishing power to Republicans next year.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

This was the question.....who answered it?

C,mon maddie, tell us what Obama and the dems have done to promote the rights of gays to marry. I'd be interested to know.

Oh wait...I think I did.
Obama told MTV he believes marriage is "between a man and a woman" and that he is "not in favor of gay marriage."


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Denial

When given evidence of Republican obstructionism to end DADT, time to tap dance around those facts. When given evidence of what the Democrats have done, time to ignore those facts.

I didn't vote for President Obama, but I know which political party makes a habit of demonizing gays to rally its base. One would have to be in deep denial not to recognize that tactic since it's been used so often.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Nancy--pay no attention to the ethically challenged.


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well RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

maddie, a sharp tongue is no indication of a keen mind.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

At the very least, we can expect Democrats not to move BACKWARDS on gay rights...sometimes they move forward but never back.

Exit polls indicated that upwards of 80% of tea party supporters are against gay marriage. Like many have said here, same people, different name.

Don't think that they will forget their petty and bigoted prejudices after the election.


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?????RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

krycek, that was the point of my original post. Unless we the people stand up for the rights of others, and let our politicians know that we expect the same of them. I wonder how many just play to what they think people want to hear?

In 1996 Obama said...
President-elect Obama's answer to a 1996 Outlines newspaper question on marriage was: "I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages."

But now he doesn't? Who is going backwards?


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ridiculous

You're being kind or ridiculous, trying to prove somehow that democrats are somehow anti-gay.

Republicans are the ones who are anti-gay.

They will remain anti-gay for at least a generation. They absolutely have to pander to the bigots, racists, and homophobes, because they depend on those people for votes. Just a simple fact.

As long as we have bigots, racists, and homophobes in any large number, they will naturally break 90/10 to the republican party and the republican party will have to indulge.


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RE:... Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Krycek--teabaggers and their supporters bigoted, that's no surprise, just the Regressives showing their true colours.


Given that California's vote on proposition 8 was most likely rigged, do they have paper ballots in Iowa?

Other than unseating sanity (which is bad enough), election night was not so good for them.

Tim Kincaid has the details:

Here is a link that might be useful: The Kiss Of Death.


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Quote

Someone is ignoring that President Obama is in favor of civil unions. Compare and contrast:

MARRIAGE NEWS: New GOP chair says civil unions weaken 'foundational institution'

WASHINGTON (BP)--Social conservatives concerned about the future direction of the Republican Party were heartened Feb. 24 [2009] when Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele made it clear he opposes not only "gay marriage" but also civil unions.

As reported by Politico.com, Steele made the comments to radio host Mike Gallagher, who asked, "Do you favor civil unions?" Civil unions grant all the legal benefits of marriage, minus the name.

"No, no no. What would we do that for?" Steele responded. "What are you crazy? No. Why would we backslide on a core, founding value of this country? ... I mean, this is a foundational principle of this country. It is a foundational principle of organized society. It isn't something that, you know, in America we decided, 'Let's make it between a man and a woman; oh well now, let's change our mind and make it between anyone and anyone.'"


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RE:Bigots Posing.

I'm having a Katrina moment.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

It's a simple point to me there is that element in this country which continually shows up to make my life miserable and their allies...they are my enemies as Mrs K stated in another post. They are given their mandate by their supporters, they even have supporters within the gay community in the guise of GOPROUD. They are few and far between in the democratic party and plentiful among the republicans. That a president does not believe that marriage is anything other than the union between a man and a woman is of little consequence to me that someone actively courts the voter values crowd is a major consequence to me as they are an umbrella of misery from where I sit. Bill Clinton was also of the same belief and now he works for gay causes and has changed his position I'd be less than cynical to believe that it's anythinh but political but I'll accept it where ever I get it. I watched very liberal leftits NY politician defend the staus quo in NYC for years it changed so what their retired or dead all that matters is it changed my hate was as palpable then as is now and my hate is white hot for so many members of the republican party.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

  • Posted by jodik 5 Central IL (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 3, 10 at 19:22

Why do some folks find it necessary to divide and conquer politically using outdated traditions steeped in religion?

I'm feeling the same thing, Maddie...


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

… we should all start an email campaign to the party leaders, including the Tea Party. These are not political issues and a pox on any politician that uses them as such.

Instead of sending emails after the fact a stronger statement would be to NOT vote for anyone who would deny the rights of others. You know, people like Vitter. Don’t be surprised that people are not buying your seemingly undying support for gay marriage when in the last 24 hours alone you bragged about voting a straight Republican ticket (not the issues) and you chose to vote for someone who is anti-gay marriage. No one forced you.

Did you even read the op? Who do you think was responsible for those 3 judges, who just happened to be the ones who supported gay marriage, being ousted?


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

I see nancy...he was for gay marriage, then he was against it, he is for civil unions.......is that as long as it is politically expedient?

No need for me to continue with this discussion. It has to be about republican versus democrat, and can't be about people doing what is right. Labrea votes on issues that mostly affect the gay community, and I understand that. I vote on issues that are fiscal. I don't want the government, either side, in peoples bedrooms or private lives. So maddie, continue on with your snide little remarks as if you have sometime in the past made a worthwhile statement that you are expounding on lol. Your inability to answer the simplest of questions as you wait for the me too's to show up to speak for you is really tiresome.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Tell that to the Gay people here.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

I didn't vote for the concentration camps I voted against the Communists. OHHHH thats so dramatic...yeah it was & yes I am.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Judicial activism my Irish arse.

Here is a link that might be useful: Disgusting


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

maddie, i am having a half keg of katrina about now

reading the tea leaves about financial and economic policies and staffing of appropriate agencies as seen through the eyes of the "winners" is amazing enough

I'm used to not having my candidates win, aside from some local offices. Now I have to watch my country get tea-bagged.

You know. dip, dip, dip, dip, dip and a big squirt of lemon.


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RE:Partner benefits

I remember President Obama signing a bill that would extend benefits I've got my eye on this set of incoming clowns as flying chimps from the Wizard of Oz want these steps rolled back. In the name of fiscal conservancy of course.

Here is a link that might be useful: President


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RE: I hate going on Like This

OH no look at that where else!

Here is a link that might be useful: Deep in the


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Obama told MTV he believes marriage is "between a man and a woman" and that he is "not in favor of gay marriage."

And you voted for this man?

*

ROTF!

It's hilarious that the Republicans haven't even taken over the House yet and the vitriol has cranked up more than ever, even to personal attacks against those of us who voted for some Republicans.

Really, it's a shame.

You were full of vitriol when Bush was president, you gloated when Obama was elected, you immediately starting making excuses for Obama, complained throughout the two years Obama and the Democrats have had the entire legislative and executive branches of governments in their control, complained throughout this election season and now you're complaining because more people disagreed with you than not.

If nothing else, this election proved that this board is NOT representative of this country--more people obviously agree with me, Nik, Cait, Mrskjun when it comes to policy than the liberals on this board.

Liberals just aren't a happy bunch, I've found.
Nothing makes them happy--not winning, not losing, nothing.

Unless of course, they get they way all the time.

Doesn't look like that's going to be happening much anymore, does it?


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Demi wrote for posterity:

"If nothing else, this election proved that this board is NOT representative of this country--more people obviously agree with me, Nik, Cait, Mrskjun when it comes to policy than the liberals on this board."

Yep, none of you were born or voted in 2008.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

It's really ashame your not very informed Demi and you always managed to stay out of the gay outrage posts before and now the most you can contribute is derision something that almost stinks of gloating...yeah thats what it smells like from here.


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2010, No Time Machine For You!

Geez, Marshall, now don't you know I've already been told by libs tonight that the past is the past and not relevant (Clinton bad behavior v. Vitter's bad behavior)and we're talking about the now!~


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Obama Let You Down

* Posted by labrea 7NYC (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 3, 10 at 23:20

It's really ashame your not very informed Demi and you always managed to stay out of the gay outrage posts before and now the most you can contribute is derision something that almost stinks of gloating...yeah thats what it smells like from here

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What am I not informed about, labrea?

I have indeed stayed out of gay outrage discussions because I support gay rights.

There is no derision I assure you, I repeated mrskjun's response to a poster castigating her for voting for a candidate that does not--and that response was that Barack Obama said that he does not support gay marriage.

Obama could have done much more for gays than he has.
Wonder why he hasn't?

I realize you have your perspective, but really, there are those of us that don't make our decisions based so much on one issue.


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RE: Please

I don't want this to turn into another one of those posts where it's about you being misunderstood.
I reject your happy thoughts about gay rights it's not support from where I sit.
The logic of voting for and supporting a party that has done so much to bring about gay misery and suffering while deriding another for not having done enough is what....fill in the blank.


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Your Vote, My Vote, Our Respective Business

"I don't want this to turn into another one of those posts where it's about you being misunderstood.
I reject your happy thoughts about gay rights it's not support from where I sit.
The logic of voting for and supporting a party that has done so much to bring about gay misery and suffering while deriding another for not having done enough is what....fill in the blank."

*

Oh, there's nothing to misunderstand.
I'll be even more clear.

I care more about this country's survival and fiscal future, the economy and jobs more than I care whether a gay couple can frame a piece of paper with "marriage certificate" on it. In other words, I'm not going to throw what's most important to me out the window to vote for what's most important to you. You see, gay marriage isn't at the top of my list, neither is abortion rights or right to life or a myriad of other issues.

I vote for who is more likely to reflect what is most important to ME. I don't have to agree with everything a candidate stands for, and seldom do.

To criticize citizens for voting for Republicans who you accuse of bringing "about gay misery and suffering" when a Democrat President has pretty much sat on the sidelines and not done what he could have in this regard is disingenuous in my view.

Your rejection of what you consider "my happy thoughts" comes across as bitter. They aren't happy thoughts--I said I support gay rights, and I do.


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RE: Iowans to destroy constitutional marriage equality.

Ohhh, that hurts, not for me but for Demi.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

The whole array of the Christian right courted by Republican candidates again and again. The Only rights or benefits achieved in this country did not come about by the generosity of right thinking republicans with happy thoughts.
Millions raised to thwart any and ever step forward year after year. Every cretin who crawled out of the closet in the past couple of years to offer up their weak apologies to the gay community for the bills and work that that have per-sued have been republicans.
Demi your out of your depth on this one I have been at this for over 40 years and I am beyond bitter.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

I am obviously out of depth as to your personal plight and lifetime of experiences as you are mine, but you should understand that my votes for Republicans because I feel they are more likely to represent MY interests are every bit as valid as your votes for your candidates that you feel represent your interests.

As an example, perhaps you have voted for candidates that support abortions on demand and that candidate offends me because I believe that abortions should be restricted after viability.

If that were true, or in fact has happened, I would never dismiss you and criticize you for voting for your candidate because of those differences.

Bitterness, while understandable, is no way to live.
I'm sorry you admit to being "beyond bitter."


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RE:Do I Get a COOKIE

In terms of the discussion at hand & the original topic it's of no interest to me how you vote or your happy thoughts.
To be beyond bitter is to be active and to be unflinching in pursuit of my rights.
"Bitterness, while understandable, is no way to live."
Yes that is the subject at hand the continued insistence of how I must live as a citizen of this nation so as to not upset the good folk.
If I play the happy f**t do I get a cookie!


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Know your place now, Joe?


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RE:... Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Hey if you're really good at the happy, you might get promoted, and get to become a house gay.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Please. Spare us.

Here's what Robert Byrd had to say on the issue in '96 right before the passage of the Defense of Marriage Act, "The drive for same-sex marriage is, in effect, an effort to make a sneak attack on society by encoding this aberrant behavior in legal form before society itself has decided it should be legal ... Let us defend the oldest institution, the institution of marriage between male and female as set forth in the Holy Bible.."

This sentiment was supported by democrats for over the last 50 years and was cleansed by death, not choice.

I'm not going to delude myslf into believing that anyone that calls themself a democrat doesn't harbor these same feelings like some here. Talk about ethically challenged. Want some more names?


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RE: oh yeah

The democrats allowed Byrd to take the reins from Kennedy, putting him in charge of gathering support and votes on major issues...

Very, VERY scary.


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RE: Iowans to repeal sanity

Or you could be a capo.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

mrskjun has a point. As many others, she votes, on balance, for the candidate who best represents her point of view - but does not agree 100%. So she says she will write the congressman and tell him/her that fine, she voted for them, but not at all because of their stance on gay marriage, and she will be furious if he/she wastes time on the issue.

Sort of like writing your congressman that you strongly disapprove of their stance on the war in Iraq/Afghanistan.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Labrea, YOU are the one that characterized my statement "I support gay rights" as being "Happy thoughts" and said you rejected my support of gay rights.

All my posts on this topic have been to explain and be conciliatory, and I thought of your posts, and you, during the night, about the prejudices and fight for equality, and those of my friends, too--here in parts of the South being openly gay is not as accepted by society as it is in larger cities.

So I see here this morning that you assume, when I said being bitter is no way to live, as me telling you how to live your life. It is obvious you need to strike out at someone and apparently I'm a target.

Maddie's interjections into this discussion, as usual, offer no attempts at understanding, conciliation, or generosity of spirit and fail to offer any cogent thought or ideas. The comments are only acrimonious, sarcastic, designed to stir the pot and encourage perturbation.

You won't get it from me, life it too short to be bitter or to encourage acrimony.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

MrsK gets my support & gratitude for this she always joins in the posts and has never been defensive about her position for that I appreciate her willingness to engage.
Pauline please as I wrote above very liberal leftists NYC politicians "Democrats" maintained the status quo for years their either dead or out of office. We made their lives miserable by not being happy little cut out sit com fairies.
Today NYC City Council President is a Lesbian whoop de freaking doo sometimes I agree with her votes on mundane matters.
As an organized party the Demogods do not make my life miserable it is not part of their Contract with America or whatever those clowns are calling it this time.
They do not go kiss the arse of The Voter Values Summit and
play I'm more right wing than you & to prove it I'll pillory our favorite targets.
The Umbrella organizations that fund their ads are not out to make my life (as a gay person) miserable. They may certainly be the scum of the earth in many other respects and make my life miserable that way.

I don't have running living candidates telling me over and over it's a choice. I don't conform with healthy US Values that I'm a sodomite pervert. They hardly cringe in saying these things the very words aren't spoken quite often from passion but as the red meat to be thrown to a voter base they are interested in reaching with these words.
I'm including an old link on Montana you can see who the usual participants are and as far as I know the 2 thirds of the Rethuglican delegates to that states convention have not changed their position on this, matter nor has Texas.
Paulines I could probably name many Democrats here and Nationally who do not have my best interest at heart mendacity is often a necessary element in being a politician
I don't know any who have gotten together to create platforms such as they have in Montana & Texas which if they are to be believed reflect the local values of the people these politicians Represent.
There were 2 posts this year on organized Republican State platforms in Texas and Montana not a peep except from Mrs K & Brush works from the right leaning tea crowd on the hatefulness of them.
Not a peep about I'm going to write my senator now about this outrage
good for you if you did if you didn't my original statement stands your silence equals complicity.

Here is a link that might be useful: Monatana


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Yes, but there is still the problem that when you vote for fiscally conservative, anti-gay politicians, your priorities are politically cancelling out Labrea's priorities and, in fact, creating more of a problem for him. That may be why he doesn't find your support very supportive. It's not just a question of what your personal position is, but the power you are giving to anti-gay politicians whose decisions reach out and impact all gays in our country.

Kate


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Not Going to Lose Any More Sleep

* Posted by dublinbay z6 KS (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 4, 10 at 10:37

"Yes, but there is still the problem that when you vote for fiscally conservative, anti-gay politicians, your priorities are politically cancelling out Labrea's priorities and, in fact, creating more of a problem for him. That may be why he doesn't find your support very supportive."

*

Too bad.

I find Labreas support of free spending Democrats just as non-supportive of me.

I'm not going to support someone else's issue at the expense of my issues.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

The continued criminalizing of gay behavior is what is bothers me the most. There is not constitutional basis for this; the problem is religious-based and has no place in our system of rule of law.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

  • Posted by jodik 5 Central IL (My Page) on
    Thu, Nov 4, 10 at 10:55

I object. I find Maddie's comments extremely concise, succinct, and always right on target. She's not afraid to "go there".


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

so cut taxes - its my money - trumps human rights.


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Still not going to lose sleep

BTW, Labrea, silence does not equal complicity.

There are many, many threads about many topics I don't even read much bother to post.

I don't recall getting into any heated discussions about gay rights, you're right. That does not mean I don't support gay rights.

I also support limited abortion and have in fact voted for candidates that oppose all abortion, because I don't vote for one or two issues. I make what I feel is the best decision--and it matters not to me what anyone else thinks about it anymore than I care how you vote.

There are plenty of issues to write to our representatives.
Gay rights is only one of very many.


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Contributory Nonsense

* Posted by jodik 5 Central IL (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 4, 10 at 10:55

I object. I find Maddie's comments extremely concise, succinct, and always right on target. She's not afraid to "go there".

*

I find them concise, too. Jodik.

"Yeah right."
"Projection, it ain't pretty."

I agree she's not afraid to "go there."
Where that is, I'm not sure, other than stirring the pot.

If that melts your butter, good for you.

I require more substance, myself.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

I support maddie on going the succinct route. (Maybe because I usually practice the same principle?) Some folks just run on and on and come back again and again with the same materials. Others lift text from other sources and post as their own thoughts. But, whatever lifts your keel...


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

There is nothing wrong with succinct, Marshall, if it is substantive. ;)


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RE: Iowans to repeal haiku

:) I bet you don't like haiku...too succinct and indirect.


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Poetry by any other name

Subtlety has its' allure.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Hmmm--I also find Maddie's comments succinct and on point. Don't see a substance problem.

Kate


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

The original topic was not about taxes or Demi. It was about Iowa Judges and it has devolved and digressed into another tax whine.
Silence Equals Death was the Logo of ACT UP Silence equals complicity is not a new concept google the expression you'll find numerous sites and causes attached to it...it's not new under the sun.
Every year several Hundred thousand March in NY Pride Parade & at least a million turn out to watch & cheer.
Every year I post the pictures curiously most of the guys grinding in speedos are missing. I march with the Quakers who have beeen at every event including Stonewall it'self. The Quaker contingent shows up every year and they are 90% heterosexual.
Wherever gay rights were achieved in this country they were fought for not asked for, grudgingly the Dems usually came along for the ride.
The first Pride I marched in about 7,000 people had half of 7th AVenue to walk down and a lot of jeering pedestrians & dirty looks by the third it was up to 20,000 thousand and Bette Middler Sang at it's End You Got to Have Friends, she was right. Nothing was gotten without people getting off their collective asses and doing something.
Thank you Iowa Judges for the chink in the machinery thank you Demi for your happy thoughts even everything contributes to the vibe even that. What doesn't contribute is the presumption that chuckles in the whitehouse is'nt a thousand times better than the Tan Man. So don't roll on the floor laughing over it.
Concise hmm were Shakespear concise we would have had Laverne & Shirley a lot sooner.
If Chruchill or Roosevelt were concise we would have had Louie Gohmert .

Here is a link that might be useful: Parade


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

(((labrea)))

You're an inspiration to me - more power to ya!


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RE: Join US

If the 2 Drag Queens on the left had just gotten in the Van quietly that night after the police raided the bar that had'nt paid off who ever they paid off in those days back in gay old Greenwhich Liberal Leftist Village none of this might have come to be. Marsha Johnson & Sylvia Rivera kicked fought and did'nt go quietly this time, their example forced the police to baracade themselves in the bar enough was enough and so they inspired many who won't ever even know they existed but what they did mattered.

What they did can produce this and I don't even know where this is but I know what it is. It's mostly gay people marching with their allies many politicians saying I'm here now get over it already.

If those folks who parade just for that day do it just for that day it was worth leaving home & school to live in a 4 by 8 shaft space above the Gay Activists headquarters for $75 a week. It was worth getting our pictures taken over and over again by the police and the nice men in the sunglasses. It was worth every nasty comment hurled at us by passersby in the most liberal leftists neighborhood in the US. Simple message come out, come out, come out, out of your closets and into the streets. Worth every fight I ever had with anyone I ever had it with. Worth ever ally gained along the way. Worth the change in attitudes of so many countries where gay rights have been enshrined as part of what is natural and good and worth while.
As a teenager I'm happy I was more homicidal than suicidal as the campaign slogan goes "It Get Better"


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Labrea, my heart breaks for you and the entire LGBT community.

I can't understand how a country that stands for liberty, justice and equality can continue to discriminate against gays. It's just so very wrong.

As a result of a Supreme Court ruling, same sex marriage is the law of the land across Canada but it took the Supreme Court to settle it. Many folk still can't accept it as part of their personal value system but they accept it as the law.

Must admit I still do a bit of a double take when I see a same sex wedding coming out of City Hall.....but it makes me smile.

As you say, it gets better, but I'm afraid same sex marriage is still a long way away unless the Supreme Court makes a positive ruling.

Keep up the good fight.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Thank you folks, and mucho likewise!

The mask was bound to come off, I was waiting for this, and predictably so, they couldn't resist.

They can bend over backwards with their pathetic attempts at damage control, too late.


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RE: ,,,,Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

How can voting anything else ever trump voting for civil rights? It's not about what's important to "me" that matters. It's what's right that matters....or at least it should be.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Seriously, you do not know why we would care that the fabric of society stay STRONG? Look to History. Find ONE society where the acceptance of homosexuality resulted in a stronger society? You can't. What you can find is how fast the society collapsed. I do not care what anyone does in their bedroom, but do not bring it to the classroom, in our schools, force it down my throat at work through "diversity training", and keep it out of my face. We are keeping it green, back to nature,and all that all over America; homosexuality is not NATURAL. It really is simple.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

arcy, you make a wonderful point...it's none of your business, it's none of the politicians business. No one forces it down your throat. It is simply a matter of equality for all. If gays marry, how in the world does that affect you? And please, put gays in the classroom. 98.25% of child molestations are done by heterosexuals. Give my child a wonderful talented gay teacher any day over a lousy heterosexual teacher.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Yup ! You should see the utter chaos and depravity in the streets of Canada. The entire social fabric is falling apart!

Arcy, you know not of what you speak......and that's the facts. Canada is an example of a society that has accepted homosexuality.... and we are doin' just fine!


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

homosexuality is not NATURAL. It really is simple.

Then why is there homosexual activity in other species?

Same Sex Couples Common in the Wild

force it down my throat at work through "diversity training", and keep it out of my face.

Been said before about other groups suffering discrimination, and we know how prejudiced and backwards those same words sound now.


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RE: )))))))))Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Mrskjun.......thank you for your balanced thought.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Wow a blast from the past Natural now get your dictionary out Arcy and look that one up. You'll find me there in every mamalian species that exists. Which usually moves us to the next level man is above the animals (insert joke about bestiality here)joke never works irate objector has no sense humor or feels they are being made the butt of a joke. I've been listening to all these arguments for years.
The fabric of your society is rotten it's weft & weave corrupt it makes a garment that is one of shame that warms not. It's need for the homosexual is essential to it own wicked need to scold & admonish and those are indeed wicked needs that it has maintained in it's present state for for 2000 years. I am a citizen & I will have the full rights of a citizen before I die and your corruption of decency will have been swept away. keep it in the darkness of your sects & private clubs but not in a nation that says I am equal to you.


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RE: There. Fixed.

Chase--you have been played.


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RE:... Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Of course, religionists always have it completely backwards:

RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society, contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide, according to research published today.
“In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies.

You keep disease and crime. We'll keep the sex and the fun.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fabric Of Society? You?


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

  • Posted by jodik 5 Central IL (My Page) on
    Thu, Nov 4, 10 at 18:55

Homosexuality is completely natural within many species... humankind being only one of the many. What isn't natural is homophobia.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Thank you and if it was Natural only to humans that is it exists in every cuture throught every period human kind has lived.
I think Arcy is trying to say it's undesireable for the "we" arcy speaks from.... which can only be an "us" be causE it does'nt include me and all the other gay people in the US or those people of varying degrees of hetrosexuality or homosexuality or those transgendred people or those Heterosexuals who say come on in join our society thE waters warm and so are we. Folks like MrsK or my good rOSE forum buddy CarolFM we are politcally as unalike as day and night and love eachother dearly or folks like Demi...(I give you a hard time but gladly truly do accept your position)


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

but...but...but Labrea, although mrskjun speaks for me with what she said above, is she allowed to vote for someone who believes that you shouldn't exist? If you are going to vote for a pig for fiscal reasons, then that is probably okay. You have a right to protect your pocketbook. But if your pig is a racist or homophobe, I'm not so sure. Human rights trumps every other concern in my opinion.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Don't get me wrong, Joe. I can see your point. There must be a way to explain, and you keep trying to reason with them and your kind heart gets in the way but you keep trying...

I'm with Jerzee on this:

There are two kinds of people, the non-compromised, and the compromised.

No matter how much one panders to the latter they couldn't give a rat's arse. Unless they can gain something, that is...


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Hmm there were a lot of rats arses in the merry Old Greenwich Liberal Leftists Village way back when. Theres revolution & evolution & I have been privileged to witness both and then theres revisionism and I've seen some of that too but not so often.
"Wisdom brings self-advancement, and Compassion brings others' advancement...." yeah well it's a nice idea so I keep trying.
Even a rats arse is useful as a teaching tool particularly to teach me not to be one in so many other areas of my life.
I'm waiting for an investigation of NOM and money laundering


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RE:.. Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Bless you and your kind heart!


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

While I support gay marriage, I have to admit that - from a legal point of view - I don't see a constitutional right to marry a member of the same sex.

I don't see it because I don't see that there's a legal right to change the definition of marriage to a contract between two people who love each other. It's always been a contract between two members of the opposite sex - no love necessary. :)

I think it may be a mistake to take this to the Supreme Court. It would be far better if Congress could change the law, and once enough precedence is set around the country, iit would clear any remaining legal hurdles.

As far as animals go, many are opportunistic. I raise birds, and they will happily couple with whomever is available. However, as soon as an opposite sex member is introduced, it is almost certain that one of the members of the first couple is going to ditch the other for a new love. :)

Right now, I appear to have four "gay" birds, and they are quite happy, but if I introduced a few hens, all hell would probably break loose. :(


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

I don't see an explicit Constitutional right to marry in the first place, whether it's two men or a woman and a man.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Yes, do quote me a passage from the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Marriage is not even a right, is it? Through much of our history, most marriages were not even licensed by government. Registry in church records were commonplace.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

“Our decisions have declined to distinguish between status and conduct in this context.”
these simple words in Ruth Bader Ginsburg's decision are a gift to the gay community.
It steps away from the term homosexual defined by sexual act as speaks to being gay as a social status.
The discussion has come up here before and I had to shut it down with there are numerous celibate homosexuals in the world but who still define themselves by status in society rather than behavior. My friend Father Mychal Judge identified himself as gay and kept his vows of celibacy till he was killed in the WTC
If granted the right to marry EDD and I would probably not avail ourselves of it but by being granted the right to marry all other civil rights currently denied in localities or states must fall in line. (simple example if Edd dies my landlord can drag me to court to try to evict me even though I have lived in the apt for 17 years) he currently is under no legal obligation to add me to the lease. A 3rd cousin in Kentucky has more rights in Kentucky to challenge a will making me EDD's beneficiary...he had some property there and a cousin did make this assertion. We evicted the cousin and sold the property so much for being charitable and letting her live there rent free.
It's why the provision in The Republican Texas State platform is so obnoxious it anticipate the eventual decisions by the Supreme Court and seeks to nullify them in advance by suggesting that Texas need not abide by Supreme Court decisions that States Rights trump Supreme Court interpretations or ruling.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rights


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Thanks for the interesting content and perspective. I wasn't aware that the Supreme Court, in session or in chambers, have legally redefined Homosexuality.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Well that could be the Christian Legal Society v. Martinez came off well 5 to 4 and that little bob just dropped in there by Ruth.
It curiously is the same approach the Iowa Judges originally took I will preface with these judges were appointed by a Conservative Republican.
In their decision they stated "This class of people asks a simple and direct question: How can a state premised on the constitutional principle of equal protection justify exclusion of a class of Iowans from civil marriage?" Justice Mark S. Cady asked.
The answer? It can't.
They also stated “We are firmly convinced the exclusion of gay and lesbian people from the institution of civil marriage does not substantially further any important governmental objective,” “We have a constitutional duty to ensure equal protection of the law.” simple straight forward. From this perspective well within the constitution.
Scalia will approach it from a presumptive behavioral position it is presumptuous because it assumes the purpose of marriage is for sexual relations which is not always the case. Scalia's derision is an impartiality exceeds the law and crosses into extreme prejudice.
He cited
Williams v. Pryor, which upheld Alabama's prohibition on the sale of sex toys; (unreal)
Owens v. State, 352 Md. 663, which held that "a person has no constitutional right to engage in sexual intercourse, at least outside of marriage." (oops half my apartment building would be under arrest)
as part of his dessent in Lawrence vs Texas which effectively got the govt out of all of our bedrooms (for now)


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

messy business; thanks again. What is it with sex and republicans? So many have been caught in sexually embarrassing situations that I guess they have to demonize some class of citizens to redirect attention from their own peccadilloes.


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RE: Dominance

Yes they keep seeing sex rather than the principal of law.
Some of us are so ill that sex is a pleasant memory...so maybe their afraid of affection.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Titillation as a substitute for the thrum of human love of family and friends.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

That has been my line of thinking for a long time.

Thir idea of "love" is a thought up twisted ideal, with so many strings attached it's beyond recognition. They don't really mean it anyways...putting their personal profit over human rights.

They are incapable of grasping the concept of love.

Saved this thread for further reference.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Reminder. For all to see.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

  • Posted by batya Israel north 8-9-10 (My Page) on
    Thu, Nov 18, 10 at 10:37

"I am a citizen & I will have the full rights of a citizen before I die"

Amen, brother mine, and blessings on our house.
Batya


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Well the standard applied in Iowa will eventually have to be the standard applied by the Supreme Court or at least that part of the court that doesn't attend Republican fund raisers or Koch Industry parties.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

On December 6 the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals will hear the appeal of Judge Walker's decision striking down CA's Proposition 8 banning same-gender marriage . C-SPAN will broadcast the hearing - 10 AM PST.

Place your bets now! I say they uphold Walker's decision.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

  • Posted by jodik 5 Central IL (My Page) on
    Fri, Nov 19, 10 at 11:49

I still don't understand what the big deal is... how does anyone elses' marriage affect mine? It doesn't.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

OOPs new laws go into effect any hospital getting Federal funds has to let the gay partner visit.
Poor Baptist & Catholic Hospitals will now have to condone homosezzzzituallidddy by acknowledging that the visitor is'nt just a firend.
Family Research Council is all upset!


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

labrea, I'm not clear on what your saying. Is this a new law? Are you saying that hospitals can, and do, prevent gay partners from visiting their loved ones in hospital?

I've heard of limiting numbers, makes sense, but specific individuals, especially loved ones......what am I not understanding.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

No hospitals can no longer prevent a partner from visting a partner.
The AFA associations position is these are special rules that a patient always had the right to have who ever they wanted visit them vistit them and that medical proxies etc. ect. ect.
Problem was though not as common as it was before the AIDS crisis hospitals did have the right to stipulate visitng policies for non family members and there had been numerous incidents following accidents wher a patient could not express their wishes where partners were kept from their loved ones bedisdes by hostile families or hospital staff.
The AFA position is now a Catholic or Baptist hospital by officially having such a rule they are condoning "the sin"

Here is a link that might be useful: Rule goes into effect.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

chase, to me this is at the top of the list for legalizing gay marriage. Can you imagine what it would be like to have your wife or husband ill in the hospital and be prevented from being by their side because you aren't considered a relative? Or that even family members who might even be estranged can deny you access. You would be the one who would know the wishes of your loved one, but no one is required to listen to you?

Two Social Science professors just wrote a book called American Grace, in their research, they found that although young people were more pro life than their parents, they were also more pro gay marriage. So who knows, maybe in our lifetime.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Coming from someone who just voted for anti Gay Marriage candidates.

Unbelievable.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

maddie, believe it honey...there happen to be a lot of us republicans who believe in gay marriage. Some of us believe we can effect a change working from the inside rather than sitting back in our little glass houses casting little stones. Have you ever looked up the definition of stalker? I think it says maddie.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Speak for yourself.

And I'm not one of your "honeys".


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

come on girls, play nice. Your differences are only ideological, theological and comical.

:)


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Plus every other basic virtue. Not worlds, galaxies apart.

Marshall, dear Pal. Your inner harmony addict needs a spanking.
:)


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

sorry marshall, but everytime I post, maddie has to show up with some snide little remark or personal jab directed at me. It's sort of like having an infestation of fruit flies, no stings, but irritating nonetheless.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

I can appreciate Maddie's anger it's nothing less than I have launched on my own family when they decry how unfair some things are. At the same time I appreciate anyone who is a Republican working for change so once again thank you Mrs Kjun.
The vitrol launched against the log cabin by folks like me and members of their own party is nothing short of a blitz. Yet I am reminded that his has been that same group who's lawsuit of DODT is the one that made the courts take action.
For the most part the new crew elected does not have my best interest at heart. People vote their values some values win out over others it's just the bad facts..


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Mrskjun did speak for herself.
She spoke for me, as well.

And Marshall, our differences are more than ideological, theological and comical. There are differences in how we conduct ourselves.

Comedy is one thing; hate and judgment dressed in smarmy one liners is not.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

  • Posted by jodik 5 Central IL (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 20, 10 at 10:47

It's especially true of Intensive Care Units in hospitals... the norm is that you must be an immediate family member in order to be able to visit the patient.

I don't know where or when laws went into effect changing this to reflect partners, but the norm has always been that only family members are allowed in the ICU rooms. It's a ridiculous rule, and I'm glad to hear it's changing.

I couldn't imagine being kept out of the room my beloved partner or spouse lay in, either injured or ill. It would be devastating! Yes, the laws need to change.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Well, it is true that feuding is not very comical. The comical part is how we conduct ourselves as experienced by others looking on while we whiplash each other.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Comedy is one thing; hate and judgment dressed in smarmy one liners is not.
and Defensiveness is?


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

a Godsend to the clueless?


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

There are people suffering, and dying, because of people like that. They don't get to lecture others on anything, whatsoever.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

* Posted by maddie_athome (My Page) on
Sat, Nov 20, 10 at 11:54

There are people suffering, and dying, because of people like that. They don't get to lecture others on anything, whatsoever.

*

See?

Not defensiveness, just tired of being the better person and ignoring.

Maddie has no basis for making false allegations about my character, Mrskjun's character, or anyone else's character based on the fact that some of us have said we have voted for Republican candidates.

Now we're apparently responsible for people suffering and dying "because of people liked that."

*

"They don't get to lecture others on anything, whatsoever"
or a form thereof appears after my posts and Mrskjuns. It's quite obvious and we've ignored it before.

I don't recall either of us lecturing anyone--just posting is lecturing in Maddiworld, a world obviously based on harrasment, stalking, denigration of posters' character on a forum supposedly for discussing "Hot Topics."

Apparently my life and Mrskjun's life and a few others are paramount Hot Topics in Maddie's life and it is, quite frankly, pathetic.

Maddie--posters here are quite capable of responding to other posters and developing their own opinions without your attempts at being the Pied Piper at every turn.

I would think that you would assume other posters are capable of coming to conclusions about what to think about me or Mrskjun or anyone else. But quite frankly, if they are like me, they don't spend their time thinking about people here on this forum, or imagining what kind of people we are "in real life" or making judgments about posters here. If they're like me, they post, they read other comments, give it a little thought and move on to life's business at hand. Some of us hang out here long enough to actually read one another's posts, glean a little about them and their lives, decide maybe a person is not all black or white in their stances, that there is some grey area and that very few people are all "good" or "bad."

Some of us learn to appreciate the humor of one another, the talents of one another, and the accomplishments of one another, even if we do not agree with their politics or our opinions. Because some of us have developed those appreciations, we treat one another with respect , even if sometimes misunderstandings and emotions take center stage.


I do wonder why you feel the need to get more people to join your inexplicable and untenable personal character assault crusade, however.

But not enough to post anymore about this!~

*

On the subject matter, I am glad that hospitals can no longer prevent a partner from visiting another in a hospital, and hopefully one day all partners bound by law will be able to make medical decisions for one another as married couples.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

  • Posted by jodik 5 Central IL (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 20, 10 at 14:05

Pots are always calling kettles black... it's been the way of it since I first began posting. It's perfectly ok for certain posters to bring acid and smarm against another poster... but as soon as the shoe is on the other foot... lookout!

In essence, what's good for the goose is not good for the gander...


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Pay no attention to the ethically challenged, Jodi.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

jodik, you have never seen me make a personal character assassination remark to a single poster on HT as long as I have been coming here. I graduated from kindergarten years ago.
You see the last remark that maddie made? There was a liberal here not so long ago who, if a conservative poster had made that remark would have seen them sent off to the teacups. I've heard from several who are no longer here. Insults and personal attacks are not allowed, it's in the rules. That said, maddie gets a pass from the liberal side, which in some ways eggs her on. It's not doing her any favors. Just because I'm not a rat, doesn't mean she isn't going to do this to someone who is.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Speak for yourself.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Jodik, how me where I started something with someone because of the opinion they held--show me where I said anyone was ethically challenged and had no compassion and everything they did was for profit. Show me, Jodik.

All this "pot kettle black" is just talk until you show where I have personally insulted posters for holding an opinion just because it differs from mine.

What I've seen is some posters who can't make their points and then turn to personal insults instead of the topic being addressed. Depending on the insult, I may let it go and I may challenge it. If someone makes a false statement about me or my position, you'd better believe I'm going to rectify it.

What still astounds me is the extrapolation--posters attributing positions you do not hold based on their own assumptions, then chastising you for statements you did not make and beliefs you do not hold, then arguing with you about it. I won't let those stand.

I've never seen Mrskjun make personal disparaging remarks about a poster just for having a different opinion than hers, either.

Geese, gander, pots black and all, you can have it.

My last houseguest just left and I have three hours until the next arrives.

The gumbo needs more shrimp so I don't have the time or inclination to fend off anymore mudpies thrown from the junior high playground!


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

MrsK I almost always appreciate your posts not always but almost always & that is just in the nature of being different people.
That I am even writing about you rather than the topic tells me it's not a hot topic rather than personality conflict.
I just wish this post would die already as it produces nothing new.


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!!!!!!RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

LOL demi...my gumbo is on the stove as well. We finally got something under 50 degrees and the gumbo pots come out!!


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????RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

labrea, you are right, we don't agree 100%, but I certainly have great respect for you, and understand your positions and why you have them. I believe away from HT and in "real" life, we could be friends. We would probably talk roses and never mention politics. That's the way "real" life is.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Yeah, pretty sure you have gay "friends".


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

I'm pretty sure she does Maddie I read here posts and remeber her 2 friends who changed her way of thinking.
My good friend CAROLFM from the Rose Forum I am absolutely certain is different from me in poltics. I missed her visit terribly this year when we are together it's about friendship which so often transcends religion & politics.


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RE:.... Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

And now, to stay on the subject: Exposing bigots, and their various disguises.

Having spent over $1,000,000 alone in this case, it's time to look into their financers, donors,staff, and exactly which gets to profit from it. NOM first:

The financers:

* The Mormon Church
* The Catholic Church, including their fascist
* Opus Dei
* Evangelical Christians

Those organisations also sit on the board:

Here is a link that might be useful: The Faces Behind The Bigotry.


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RE:.... Iowans repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Joe I hear you! And I do see your point. Still, that doesn't make up for it. Stalling tactics: If it weren't for them, equal rights for all would be here.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

If only I believed that I'm a much more cynical person.
I know who my enemies are elected and almost every one of them has an R following their name.
People who wish me well I have to take at their word I can hope for more but I don't demand it thats the road to tyranny.
I can't engage in the very thing I decry...what good is an ally who is a hypocrite.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

labrea, don't give a lot of credit to this administration either. Obama said in 96 he was for gay marriage, now he's against it. He has a bully pulpit. I'm afraid hypocrites abound on both sides of the aisle.

The section of DOMA that prevents the federal government from recognizing states' same-sex marriages already was struck down as unconstitutional earlier this year in two cases from Massachusetts, but the Obama administration has appealed the rulings.

The section, which the federal District Court in Boston found unconstitutional in three ways, states: "In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the word 'marriage' means only a legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife, and the word 'spouse' refers only to a person of the opposite sex who is a husband or a wife."

The language overrides any state's determination that a couple is married and says that they are not married for purposes of all federal laws and programs, even though the federal government otherwise has always deferred to state determinations of marital status.

Whatever happened to states rights?

Here is a link that might be useful: Gays sue feds over marriage again


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Ah Mrs K can we let it go already


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

I don't want to wade into the current debate but just in case anybody is still wondering why we gay couples are fighting to have our marriages recognized by the states we live in and by the federal government, the link below will show you just how little some of the top organizations fighting against us think of our rights. These groups believe that we shouldn't even have the right to have our same-sex spouse or partner at our side if we are sick or dying in a hospital. If the words and actions of these groups offend or outrage you--and I hope they do--please help to do something about it. And those of you who are still opposed to same-sex marriage, take a good hard look at your allies and a good hard look into your own hearts.

Here is a link that might be useful: American Family Association And Liberty Counsel Object To Hospital Rights For Gays


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

The day after I voted in the last elections, I had to have some extensive surgery and the recovery has been such that I have ignored all things politics. I can't tell you how freshening it is to concentrate on local events, neighborhood friends, immediate family and friends and the very basic, simple little events of every day, simple life.

Ignoring all things politics 'cleansed the palate', somehow. It's been incredibly refreshing.

However, in poking around my e-mail, I decided to pop into this forum after this short break and was about to back out again, not ready for the barking over every political crumb of a topic that can be imagined.

Then I read this thread and was reminded of the real value of Hot Topics in my eyes. It is a great thread, with thoughtful contributions from wonderful, decent and honorable people. I'm awfully glad I stayed here long enough to read this thread.


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RE: Iowans to repeal constitutional marriage equality.

Hi Johnnie!

Yep, Joe summed them up nicely. And you did too.

No one gets to decide who should have equal rights, and who shouldn't. No one should have to beg for them either.

Equal rights are not negotiable.

[now quit going AWOL all the time will ya?!]


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