License to buy cigarettes? As an ex-smoker, I oppose that idea. Somebody obviously thinks it is a good idea, but I don't know why. I think some people actually just want to punish smokers rather than honestly helping them to stop smoking. Which is fine--if they would just be honest about it and skip all the goody-goody justifications.

Kate

Corporatist US has many inroads into the private lives of their workers!

"In Indiana, Janice Bone was fired because she smoked cigarettes in her own home. At least 6,000 American companies now attempt to regulate off duty smoking and other private behavior."

Working in hospitals, you are around the elderly, the very young, and those whose immune systems are compromised. For you, getting the flu is a few miserable days in bed. For them, it might be a death sentence. You'd be spreading it to them before you even realize you have it.

Amazes me to this day that they were willing to shell out for any heinous health side-effects of smoking but not for helping a person quit. I hope that's changed.

Don't you want to be assured that your healthcare professional isn't contagious?

After all, some folks here at HT worry about pizza delivery drivers not be immunized. Well...well....well....

License for cigarettes? That'll be the day. I bet corporate bigwigs are just salivating to add alcohol to that little plan on a train to nowhere. You license one gateway, you have to give equal time to both.

Anyone in health care should be required to get a flu shot. I agree with HG, the flu could be a death sentence for these people. Employers can set conditions for employment, and this is a legitimate condition.

A few exceptions will be approved, mostly for allergies, and those people must wear a mask, at all times, while at work, during flu season. And if you don't get a flu shot and have not been approved for an exception, you won't be allowed in to the facilities during flu season. Which means you are fired.

....wrong, already happened. Don't believe me, start a protest about this and see how quickly the militarized police state will beat you down in the street.

Never had a flu shot.

I have never had a reaction to the shot. In fact in Sept, I not only had the shot I had a tetanus one the same day. Not as single reaction with either. I also have had the pneumonia and shingle shots.

I had the flu 2 winters ago. Knocked me flat for 6 weeks.

Which, all things considered, is better than knocked flat for years.

I have never gotten one and won't until I am at the point where if I get the flu it's likely to kill me. Right now, I'll be unhappy but chances are I won't die. I've had the flu and it wasn't fun but I'm not willing to get shot. And, as Jodi said, it's not the conspiracy theories, I just don't like putting anything in my body that I don't have to. When I'm old and frail, I'll get the shot.

Gee, marquest, that's quite a testimony to the potency of the flu shot--good for 40 years!

LOL

Kate

More for the safety of their patients than for them.

As far as licencing smokers, wonder where that one got started.......never gonna happen.

Last month,, in a step tantamount to heresy in the public health world, scientists at the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota released a report saying that influenza vaccinations provide only modest protection for healthy young and middle-age adults, and little if any protection for those 65 and older, who are most likely to succumb to the illness or its complications. Moreover, the report�s authors concluded, federal vaccination recommendations, which have expanded in recent years, are based on inadequate evidence and poorly executed studies.

"We have overpromoted and overhyped this vaccine," said Michael T. Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, as well as its Center of Excellence for Influenza Research and Surveillance. "It does not protect as promoted. It�s all a sales job: it�s all public relations."

The article goes on to say:

The Cochrane Collaboration, an international network of experts that evaluates medical research, concluded in a 2010 review that the vaccines decrease symptoms in healthy adults under 65 and save people about a half-day of work on average, but that they do not affect the number of people hospitalized and have minimal impact in seasons when vaccines and viruses are mismatched. (When the vaccine matches the circulating viruses, 33 adults need to be vaccinated to avoid one set of influenza symptoms; when there is only a partial match, 100 people must be vaccinated for the same effect.) It was also concluded that the vaccines appear to have no effect on hospital admissions, transmission or rates of complications. A separate Cochrane review on vaccines for the elderly determined the evidence was so scant and of such poor quality that it could not provide guidance. Dr. Bresee of the C.D.C. pointed to only one randomized controlled trial of influenza vaccine in older people, and it looked at people age 60 and over in the Netherlands healthy enough to not be hospitalized or in a nursing home.

Another Cochrane review found no evidence that vaccinating health care workers who work with the elderly has any effect on influenza or pneumonia deaths.

By all means, get a flu shot if you want one, but people should know about the shortcomings, and actual evidence of their effectiveness.

It's not necessary to sterilize the world with anti-bacterial everything... that's what prevents our systems from creating their own antibodies.

I remember the "chase the patient" scene and my blood curling screams and mom saying "your scaring all the children in the waiting room". Yeah like I cared :) Anyway the "shot" did not take and they ended up doing it again and left a scar that still shows to this day.

Then we stood in line at a local school for our "sugar cube" polio vaccine.

I never had any childhood illnesses (measles, mumps, chickenpox) but all my siblings did, shrug.

Herd immunity is just as important as getting vaccinated, even the unvaccinated are protected from the flu, and in a hospital, that's really important, since so many patients can't or don't get the flu vaccine. So while it may not be 100% effective, it still protects from the flu, and it's the best we've got right now. And being part of the group that seems to have been protected from the flu for many years now, all I can say is Thank You for the flu vaccine.

Smallpox vaccination? I still have the scar.

The military still gives it, as protection against bio-warfare.

It's not a shot, but a series of pricks to the skin.

"The current formulation of smallpox vaccine is a live virus preparation of infectious vaccinia virus. The vaccine is given using a bifurcated (two-pronged) needle that is dipped into the vaccine solution. The needle is used to prick the skin (usually the upper arm) a number of times in a few seconds. If successful, a red and itchy bump develops at the vaccine site in three or four days. In the first week, the bump becomes a large blister (called a "Jennerian vesicle") which fills with pus, and begins to drain. During the second week, the blister begins to dry up and a scab forms. The scab falls off in the third week, leaving a small scar.[35]"

I take that back... last shot I had was Tequila... about 3 years ago...

No I had the same vaccine "twice", that much I remember, it was probably because I did not react in a normal way to that either.

I have been blessed by rarely being ill, but have broken just about every bone in my body except my ribs (knock on wood) :)

I guess I would have to take a pass on a job that forced me into medical procedures I was not comfortable with.

Broken, fractured, cracked ribs are incredibly painful, Ohiomom... I'll knock on wood for you!

One thing to make that choice for yourself...another to make it for someone else.

Health care workers , especially those working with the very young, the elderly or those with immune deficiencies risk the lives of their patients if they don't get the shot.

Me! Me! Me!

Retire at 65 and let Obama take care of me for the rest of my life!!!

Issac Asimov once calculated that, if we didn't die of "natural causes", then our life expectancy, because of accidents and the like, would be on the order of about 450 years.

I've been seeing a lot of recent headlines about "new ways to make a vaccine", "new approach to making vaccines", that sort of thing. I hate being a guinea pig. So, although I have always lined up to get a Flu shot, I will certainly reconsider if and when they suddenly introduce a newfangled way. It'll be a tough call for me.

Hay

The Medical Center I work for just sent out their "final warning". If you don't get your flu shot by Saturday, you will be on a one week suspension. If you don't get a flu shot during that week, you will have resigned.

They said only 70% of Medical School faculty and staff have gotten the flu shot, while 87% of Health System employees have gotten their flu shot.

-Ron-

I think the person most likely to sue would be the patient who got the flu from an unvaccinated staff member.

People are always saying they would stay home if they got sick, but they never do. We've sent sick staff home, only to have them come back the next day, even sicker, and we send them home again, and again. People don't want to use sick leave, and if you get the flu, you'll be out for at least two weeks, and maybe many more.

Even giving a cold to someone with a compromised immune system can be catastrophic, but people come to work anyway, and I work in a clinic that cares for people with HIV/AIDS.

Plus, you are usually contagious before you develop symptoms.

People spend millions of dollars on so called "immune boosting" supplements, yet are skeptical of the flu vaccine, which really does boost your immune system, by causing antibodies to develop in the body against the flu. I think that they need to change the name of the shot from a vaccination to an immune booster.

What a country...

If I had the flu just as a member of the public, I would not go and hang around a hospital where there are vulnerable people. If I had a job where it was necessary to be around them, I would take any steps, including vaccinations, to minimize being the cause of their harm.

Ditto

It should be the choice of the individual, IMO, as long as they don't come to work sick.

If you want to work at certain medical centers, you have to get a flu shot every year. That's the condition set for employment.

Most places now require drug testing and criminal background checks, which I find much more intrusive than a flu shot.

It's my impression that immunizations are safe for the immune-compromised as long as they are made with a killed virus. The live virus ones are the ones to avoid. Additionally, the immune compromised, notably those with HIV, are often advised to obtain killed virus vaccinations to boost what immunity they still have.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who circulate freely in society that nevertheless do not contribute to herd immunity, which is the only thing that makes immunizations effective. Most vaccines vary in effectiveness among different individuals, and it is only if all are immunized that there is much protection for most. Those who lead a totally isolated existence are a different issue--if they are not around others, they will neither catch nor transmit infections irregardless. How many are really able to live in total isolation?

Vaccines made with live viruses are a separate issue, as they are more risky for some, but despite that, few would have wanted to be around those not immunized against polio during polio epidemics experienced in the last century.

Despite having a flu shot this year, for a couple of weeks I experienced body aches and debility a month or so after the shot. I suspect if I had not had the immunization, I would have experienced a severe case of the flu this fall. I'm glad I obtained the shot.

Additionally, despite being in several environments over the past several months where numerous people were coughing, I have as yet not come down with anything else.

I also use the Zicam formulations that are still on the market whenever I experience early cold symptoms.

I used to be sick all the time when cigarette smokers were able to pollute any public environment, amd I tend to resent the non-immunized as much as I used to resent the cigarette smokers (I had to have two nasal polyp operations specifically because of others' selfish smoking behaviors. My exact opinions of such selfish behaviors are not printable in this forum--I would be banned).

IMO, the selfish parents who refuse to immunize their children against whooping cough etc., that cause severe outbreaks of disease should be liable for damages. In the case of measles, this could lead to paying for a lifetime of misery for an unborn child that is born with birth defects.

IMO the unvaccinated today are the cultural equivalent of the uncovered sewers and throwing of "night soil" from windows experienced by society in the Dark Ages.

JMO.

It's absolutely no different and I find them both disgusting. Obviously most lost the intent of my comment. Thank you George Orwell.

-Ron-

I find it all intrusive. Why should drug screening or background checks be run? How about credit checks? Since when has it become "common practice" to have these things done? It's getting ridiculous how much information is out there now. Information that is no one's business. These are things that shouldn't be addressed until there is a problem. It's like stopping everyone on the street all the time everywhere they go, to ensure they're not up to criminal behavior. How can it be seen any other way? I thought we lived in a more private society than this is becoming. I've only worked 27 years, but this has all been becoming more and more invasive for the past ten years. It's off the chart ridiculous! Not only is not my employer's business, it's not the public's business. Why are they trying to stop something before it happens? I mean, really, I understand anyone working with children being checked for drugs and or a criminal background. But when one works in, let's say, a real estate office, why is it necesary?

It contains a whole lot of not your business, is what it contains... no wonder more and more people are becoming expats or living off the grid... what I do within the confines of my private life, my bedroom, and on my own personal time is my business. End of story.

I choose not to share my bodily fluids to get a factory job, and my credit rating has not a thing to do with job performance. When I'm sick, I remain home... it's the courteous, and wise, thing to do.

Some jobs should require background checks and whatnot... but I think intrusion into personal life, in general, has gotten to be a little much.

And even that I find spurious to a large extent. Say I shoplifted once as a teenager, does that mean I'm a worse teacher? A few of the most gifted childcare workers I know have a troubled history with the law, and its taught them a lot that they are able to pass on in the form of maturity and life wisdom. I also don't really care if my health worker smokes pot on the weekends as long as they are not doing it at work. Lord knows I've had enough healthcare workers that are dangerously obese -- it's a case of 'do as I say, not as I do', and in this context I'm actually OK with that. Nobody's a saint.

Both of my grandmothers were schoolteachers in the 1920's, and both left their job when they married. It was felt unseemly for a married woman to teach, the presumption being that they would now be serving their own man's and children's needs -- and there was definitely an undertone of 'moral' concern about having someone now possessing carnal knowledge teaching tender young minds. Times change.

I got sick much more often every winter when I was teaching. Kids are hot little breeding grounds for everything from sniffles to ebola. The healthcare worker argument strikes me as valid, but in terms of teaching, a flu shot (presuming it's at all effective) would seem to protect the teacher more than the children. ;-)

I know many people that would see someone as a bit "lazy" or "soft" if they did not go to work sick. They would question that person's work ethic. I know that I have went to work sick. I am not saying that it is right, but I am saying that I am guilty of it. I believe that it is part of the older generation's work ethic that has been passed down.

So you can go to work. Makes sense to me. Same reason I do it. If I get the flu with or without the vaccine, then I stay home. Knock on wood, I haven't gotten the flu since 1988, and back then I didn't get flu shots (mostly because I did get the Swine Flu shot in 1976, and got very, very sick).

Posted by frank_il z5Illinois (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 28, 12 at 20:18

"No, everybody doesn't do it. I don't go to work sick."

I know many people that would see someone as a bit "lazy" or "soft" if they did not go to work sick. They would question that person's work ethic. I know that I have went to work sick. I am not saying that it is right, but I am saying that I am guilty of it. I believe that it is part of the older generation's work ethic that has been passed down.

*

Yes, I know people with that work ethic.

Other than being hospitalized for minor surgery, my husband only missed two days of work due to illness in a twenty-eight year career.

Of course he went to work sick.

We're the buck up family.

I'm considering the flu shot this year--three years ago I had the flu, bronchitis, and was close to pneumonia after thinking I could shake off what I thought was a little upper respiratory problem. I'd never been that sick before.

Now I've had three rounds of bronchitis since then and my lungs hurt and I cough a lot. It's difficult to recover and I wish I hadn't been stubborn and refused to go to the doctor until after a month had passed of being so tired and sick I could barely take care of business.

But I do know my grandmother got very, very ill after taking the flu shot and would never take it again.

When is the latest you should take the flu shot?

Kate, I was so sick my daughter called my mother and I did not remember her taking care of me for 24 hours. I swore the company tried to kill me. They said I probably had the flu when they gave me the shot. I was not sick before they gave me the shot.

I drink herb tea, take vitamin B and C. I have not had any shots since and I have not had a cold or flu since that incident 40 years ago. It probably scared my body so much it is afraid of the flu. LOL

For those of you who haven't had the flu in years, neither did I--and I always went to work when I was sick. But in my 50s, flu symptoms starting appearing nearly every winter and I'd be sick for 2-3 weeks! A couple times the symptoms were bad enough that they kinda scared me. It was during that time period when I started getting the annual flu shot, and I haven't had the flu since (though I'm fighting a bad cold/upper-respiratory thing right now--but hey, 3-4 days isn't bad.)

Kate

Posted by frank_il z5Illinois (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 28, 12 at 20:18

"No, everybody doesn't do it. I don't go to work sick."

I know many people that would see someone as a bit "lazy" or "soft" if they did not go to work sick. They would question that person's work ethic. I know that I have went to work sick. I am not saying that it is right, but I am saying that I am guilty of it. I believe that it is part of the older generation's work ethic that has been passed down.

*

Yes, I know people with that work ethic.

Other than being hospitalized for minor surgery, my husband only missed two days of work due to illness in a twenty-eight year career.

Of course he went to work sick.

We're the buck up family.

I'm considering the flu shot this year--three years ago I had the flu, bronchitis, and was close to pneumonia after thinking I could shake off what I thought was a little upper respiratory problem. I'd never been that sick before.

Now I've had three rounds of bronchitis since then and my lungs hurt and I cough a lot. It's difficult to recover and I wish I hadn't been stubborn and refused to go to the doctor until after a month had passed of being so tired and sick I could barely take care of business.

But I do know my grandmother got very, very ill after taking the flu shot and would never take it again.

When is the latest you should take the flu shot?

Thanks, Kate. Next time I go to town I'll get a flu shot I guess.

I if I have sniffles and/or congestion, I go to work. I don't touch anything without my sleeve touching it instead and stay put. At the end of the day, I wipe it all down and at the beginning of the next day, wipe it all down. I also don't shake hands or join in at lunch. I stay put. But I go. If I have a fever of any sort, I know to stay at home even if I feel ok after taking fever reducer and feeling "reasonable". I won't go in with a fever regardless. I just don't get those stomach bugs except every other year for 24 hours. If I did feel like my mom does when she gets her twice a year pneumonia, I wouldn't go in. There are limits. I had 6 years of "perfect attendance" (their name for it) through junior high and high school. Would've been longer, but we went on a trip in 5th grade and mom took us out of school for a week. I could afford to miss a few days.

I don't have to go to work, but I do unless I am so dizzy I shouldn't drive (twice in the past year. Fixed now that we know what causes it and I just do the very light steroid thing when I feel it coming on) or feverish. If I got that seasonal flu thing described above, I think I'd start risking the ER. Until then, I won't.

I think I've had the flu once in my life. I'm in the group that can't believe anyone could do anything other than lie in bed if they get a real case of the flu. Go to work? I don't think you had the flu.

I'm always amazed, too, how few times I get colds and the like from my dancing. On Friday and Saturday nights, I'm in the middle of a crowd of maybe 500 or more people who are shoulder to shoulder on a dance floor. I don't get many colds.

And, when I go contra dancing, the nature of the dance is that, all night long, you're constantly going from one person's hands to the next person's hands. I am SUPER careful about washing my hands and not touching my hands to my face at contra dances.

Still, when I go to the BIG Contra dance festivals, where 1000's of people from all parts of the country will gather, I will inevitably come back with a new version of the cold.

I'm also a believer in, "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger", so I don't mind exposing myself to all these germs out there. I'll be stronger going into my old age.

Hay

You are right. If they went to work they did not have the flu. If they did manage to get there the company would send them home because you would do something that would make them send you home.

I've never bought into the idea of sterilizing everything, and don't buy anti-bacterial products to wipe down the world with.

When we were kids, my Dad used to say, "a little dirt never hurt anybody."

The one time I had the flu there was no way I could have gone to work. I was pretty much useless for almost 2 weeks. Good news was I just happened to have taken those 2 weeks off work (end of year and was using up vacation days). Bad news was I was sick my entire vacation.

I have the advantage of being able to work from home. When I'm not feeling well and don't want to subject myself to the long commute and subject others to whatever I have, I just work from home. I still get my work done and nobody has to be around my sneezing, coughing, etc.