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the green mountain boys

Posted by pnbrown z6.5 MA (My Page) on
Fri, Nov 15, 13 at 8:56

Isn't it kind of delicious that little Vermont, smack in blue-state territory, and now dominated by liberal politicos, allows both open and concealed carry without a permit?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: the green mountain boys

Delicious isn't a word I'd choose to describe that particular notion.


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RE: the green mountain boys

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Fri, Nov 15, 13 at 9:44

Perhaps they are the so-called good guys with a gun?


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RE: the green mountain boys

I'm all in favor of permitting any sort of carry, with strict guidelines and background checks of some depth.


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RE: the green mountain boys

VT is wonderful for freedom; one can drive without having to buy insurance and walk around town with a pistol on one's hip.


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RE: the green mountain boys

It's not so good if you're a minority in a liberal state such as VT.

According to the United States Census Bureau in 2011, 95.5% of the 626,592 people living in Vermont are white. The problem is not Vermont’s demographics but the tyranny of the majority. The majority white population is swaying policy and influencing the Vermont Criminal Justice System which has a negative impact on the remaining 4.5% of Vermont’s population.

A revealing statistic showed that black stop rates per 1000 residents 18 and over is double that of whites in South Burlington and Burlington. As well that investigatory stops, when police use high levels of discretion and there is no clear violation of the law, black people are 85% more likely than white people to be pulled over for investigatory stops in Burlington and South Burlington. Lastly the most invasive form of a motor vehicle stop, the search and seizure. In Burlington blacks are twice as likely to be searched when stopped compared to whites and are six times more likely to be searched in South Burlington. Appel puts these statistics into context claiming that “officer’s exercise discretion when pulling someone over” and that these statistics show that at least one factor for an officer’s degree of intrusion is based on the race of the driver. This issue of race is further perpetuated in Vermont because blacks stand out and are more likely to be bothered by police. Appel’s most revealing statistic was based on incarcerations in Vermont. Even though black people make up less than 2% of the Vermont population, people of color make up over 10% of Vermont’s prison population. Eileen Blackwood the Burlington City Attorney added that the Vermont incarceration rate of African Americans is proportionally the 3rd highest in the country.


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RE: the green mountain boys

Freedom is a wonderful thing... but it comes with a price. That price is respecting that everyone else has the same freedoms, and we can't allow our sense of freedom to harm others.


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RE: the green mountain boys

I am 100% for the instant background check. That's about all I am for re: gun regs. there is simply no need for any more harassment.

Burlington, who is committing the bulk of the crimes there?


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RE: the green mountain boys

No restriction whatsoever on concealed or open carry, and yet gun-crime in VT is very low.


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RE: the green mountain boys

well pn, just take a look around. Cities and states with the tightest restrictions also have the highest crime rates. gee, anti gun laws work so well!
Even tho the number of gun owners has dramaticly increased and there are 30 million more guns in citizens hands in the last few years, gun crimes decrease! Gun control is just another liberal, bankrupt cause. You see how the Bloomburg effort has tanked even after he spent millions to quash rights of citizens.


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RE: the green mountain boys

The problem is... the agenda focuses on the inanimate object... but does not address the many underlying social and economic reasons why people commit crimes in the first place.

And yet again, a law only works if everyone follows it. Otherwise, it's only a few words on paper.


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RE: the green mountain boys

Well said, jodi ;-)


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RE: the green mountain boys

VT is like Iceland in this regard. What do they have in common? Relatively homogeneous populations and relatively low wealth inequity.


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RE: the green mountain boys

We might deduce that gun restriction laws follow social inequity and discord, as legislatures try to chase the symptoms, since they cannot fix the underlying problems. Were VT or Iceland to acquire large socio-economically diverse populations and considerable inequity, assuredly crime would shoot up and the cool unconcern about gun possession would vanish.


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RE: the green mountain boys

I can't take credit for finding this article of significance, linked below... the credit goes to Marshallz, I believe... he posted it in another thread, though I can't recall where, exactly... but it fits here...

Here is a link that might be useful: Up in Arms


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RE: the green mountain boys

Yes, I read throughout this nine-or-eleven "nation" theory before. His historical descriptions seem accurate, but the conclusions for present influences are rather exaggerated. There is scholarly criticism of this theory that seems to be well-founded.

Nevertheless, let's just say that he is correct, and levels of violence depend on which of the eleven nations one measures. IOW, as I said above, levels of gun violence are results of deep societal differences, and passing gun laws is merely chasing symptoms. It won't change anything. If a cracker feels that his honor has been assaulted, lack of a gun will not prevent action.


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