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Speaking of Grapes. "progressive" logic.

Posted by haydayhayday none (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 21, 12 at 10:21

Thank a "progressive".

"The Supreme Court agreed Tuesday to hear an appeal from Fresno raisin growers Marvin and Laura Horne, who contend that the federal marketing program that can take nearly half of their crop is unconstitutional.

Their case poses a significant challenge to the New Deal-era farm program that seeks to prop up prices by keeping part of the crop off the market.

...

Under the federal program, the USDA's raisin board seeks to maintain stable prices by setting aside some portion of the crop and keeping it off the market. Those raisins can be used in the federal school lunch program, but the growers are paid little or nothing for them.

....

The federal marketing order for raisins "extracts a hefty portion of a farmer's annual raisin crop as a condition" for selling the rest of it on the market, said the growers' appellate lawyer, Michael McConnell, a Stanford University law professor and former federal appeals court judge.

In 2003, when the case began, raisin handlers were required to set aside 47% of the crop, he said. The next year, the percentage dropped to 30%.

In those two years, the raisin board "determined that the compensation for the reserve-tonnage raisins should be set at precisely zero dollars," he said. The Hornes "received no compensation for the USDA's appropriation of almost one-third of their crop," he said."

Another article. Same subject

Hay


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Speaking of Grapes. "progressive" logic.

What is your point?

From the cited link:

In defense of the USDA, Solicitor Gen. Donald Verrilli Jr. had urged the court to steer clear of the case. The marketing orders apply to "handlers" of raisins, not to producers, he said.
The new case arises from independent farmers who admitted that they spoke for only a "small part of the large raisin industry" in California.

In 2003, when the case began, raisin handlers were required to set aside 47% of the crop, he said. The next year, the percentage dropped to 30%.

In those two years, the raisin board "determined that the compensation for the reserve-tonnage raisins should be set at precisely zero dollars," he said. The Hornes "received no compensation for the USDA's appropriation of almost one-third of their crop," he said.

The Hornes tried to play both roles by producing raisins and then marketing them, he said. They "cannot flout the raisin marketing order and then challenge the resulting monetary assessment on the ground that compensation might hypothetically be owed if they had complied," he said.

This is a dog whistle for the free market ideologues who are against any market regulation by government. However, it is being made by those who apparently do not understand the history pf the regulation or the facts of this case which involve an attempted abuse of an existing regulation where they were set to receive nothing as just compensation from the government.


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RE: Speaking of Grapes. "progressive" logic.

"What is your point?"

Just trying to understand "progressive" "logic".

" an existing regulation where they were set to receive nothing as just compensation from the government."

You could start here.

Hay


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RE: Speaking of Grapes. "progressive" logic.

Another New Deal agriculture program that goes on and on and on. Like the commodity distribution, ag extension agents in every county, including urban ones, etc.

As an aside, a lot of those 'surplus' raisins are shipped to Haiti as food aid - its sort of a joke among Haitians....

Here is a link that might be useful: link to some graph of raisins in Haiti


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RE: Speaking of Grapes. "progressive" logic.

The raisin marketing order requires "handlers" who process and pack raisins to place part of their product in reserve, with the industry-run Raisin Administrative Committee deciding how much they�re to be paid for this set-aside tonnage. Raisin handlers set aside 47 percent of their crop during the 2002-03 season and 30 percent for 2003-04, but they were paid for only part of what they surrendered.

The set-aside raisins may be sold for purposes such as the federal school-lunch program.

Oh no, more of your money paying to feed hungry little school children in urban areas..
That's it, this is double bad. Gubmint regs and feeding hungry black and brown kids in the City.


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RE: Speaking of Grapes. "progressive" logic.

"Oh no, more of your money paying to feed hungry little school children in urban areas..
That's it, this is double bad. Gubmint regs and feeding hungry black and brown kids in the City."

That didn't take long.

I'm not asking for more examples of "progressive" "logic". Just trying to understand one case at a time.

Hay


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RE: Speaking of Grapes. "progressive" logic.

"As an aside, a lot of those 'surplus' raisins are shipped to Haiti as food aid - its sort of a joke among Haitians...."

How so, David?


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RE: Speaking of Grapes. "progressive" logic.

NIk, my information is dated, and I can't find any sources right now. Years ago, I worked with some Haitians who were telling me that the per-capita raisin consumption in Haiti is something astounding - 200x anywhere else - and a lot of it is used to make hooch.

The Haitians I've known have all had a sense of humor re the dregs of modern food processing - like tons of frozen turkey tails and surplus food like 20 lb boxes of raisins - sent to them as food aid. "Haitian steak and salad" kind of stuff.


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RE: Speaking of Grapes. "progressive" logic.

Thanks, David. I know that sometimes we've donated foods abroad that turned out not to be all that popular with the recipients. Glad to know raisins are winding up in a place where they'll be enjoyed.


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RE: Speaking of Grapes. "progressive" logic.

*hic*

Yes, Ma'am! Sort of like Ouzo. Probably a tidy profit in that. Not for the raisin growers.


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RE: Speaking of Grapes. "progressive" logic.

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RE: Speaking of Grapes. "progressive" logic.

Well, we have now resolved the thorny, if hickup-y, problems of excess raisin production. Hayman seems to be satisfied by the allocation of raisins to making hooch.


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RE: Speaking of Grapes. "progressive" logic.

"excess raisin production. Hayman seems to be satisfied by the allocation of raisins to making hooch."

The production is only excess because they confiscate and ship off a big portion of it to unsuspecting Haitians.

One of the nice things about free markets is that you don't have "shortages" and "excesses".

I was listening to the radio around Halloween and they were listing the top items that kids hate to get from Trick or Treating. Those little boxes of raisins were right up there at the top of the list.

Hay


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RE: Speaking of Grapes. "progressive" logic.

I tried to foist off boxes of raisins as well. Our cheaper raisins are often years old, kept in cold storage, of course, in very large containers complete with trash and other debris. Next time I'll date my cheap raisins by testing via carbon dating. The dastardly government also limits imports of even cheaper raisins from a world floating in excess raisin production.

Anytime you see a breakfast cereal boasting of extra raisins, pass by that shelf.

As a Californian and one who used to inspect grape/raisin producers and handlers, I commiserate with the small grape growers who often cannot sell all their fresh grapes and must make raisins instead.


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