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"This is a Catholic country."

Posted by jon_in_wessex z8/9 UK (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 14, 12 at 14:16

Can't even trust myself to comment.

"This is a situation we were told would never arise. An unviable foetus - the woman was having a miscarriage - was given priority over the woman's life, who unfortunately and predictably developed septicaemia and died."

Here is a link that might be useful: Ignorance is bliss


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 14, 12 at 14:34

I just read about that on the BBC News site, what a senseless tragedy.

Here's an interesting article about a study of women who have or who are denied abortion.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

That's sad. And maddening too.

That actually brings to mind a situation that now I have to ask about. Many years ago, an aquaintance of mine was told they could not find the fetus' heartbeat during a visit. Further tests showed that the fetus had indeed died in utero.

The hospital gave her an option of having the fetus removed or letting it pass naturally, which they told her was better for her body's healing process. She opted to have her body pass it naturally and apparently did with no problems.

Was the natural process better or was she being set up for the same kind of problem as this woman?

I suppose it depends on whether she was having complications in the miscarriage... many women have miscarriages without problems...


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

I mourn her! That is so horrible. I will tell you, the US doesn't view it the same way. If your body is already miscarrying, they'll do a DC and call it a DC, not an abortion. Actually, they do call it a "spontaneous abortion?", but it's surely viewed differently. I think the difference is that the conception has to have a real possbility of living, which there wasn't any possibility for her conception. They should've seen that. Why they didn't is beyond me.


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

Joe Higgins is right with all the problems the Church had in that nation it still exerts political control over the lives of people who are no believers or down right hostile to it's dogma!


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

HG,

I can answer that. I have had five miscarriages (and one contentious pregnancy that turned out with a fantastic kid! He's a miracle and worth it all). The last two, I let my body do it all naturally. I finally figured out, older and wiser, nature knew best and it was far less invasive. It can happen just fine without intervention. Such was obviously not the case of this beautiful dentist's case. It's so horrible!


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

The last two, I let my body do it all naturally. I finally figured out, older and wiser, nature knew best and it was far less invasive.

This was basically what the doctor had told her... the body will start relieveing the swelling faster on it's own if it miscarries naturally, healing time, etc.

I suppose the woman in the story had a complication OF a miscarriage... the miscarriage itself was not the dangerous part.


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

I'm thinking that the woman in the story is a victim of having someone else's religious beliefs forced upon her.


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

all the problems the Church had in that nation it still exerts political control over the lives of people who are no believers or down right hostile to it's dogma!

or are Catholics who believe in saving the life of the woman instead of adhering to the cult of the fetus.


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

This is an unbelievable story. Another reason the far Right in this country can never get in control.


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

Jesus will you know he had a plan for her hopefully Kali was comforting when she came. We can let Krishna & the Holy Ghost duke it out in the courts!


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

I agree HG, thrust upon her. Not unlike the teen boy who died of appendicitis because of his parents' belief, what, a couple of months ago? I just don't understand how ANY religious ideal can be more precious than a life. Why are the courts letting them get away with it? Regardless of the country?


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

Doesn't seem like a simple situation. Termination never is. If there was a heartbeat then the fetus was not dead, so it's a difficult call for the supervising physician.


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

pn,
Truly spoken like a man who would never have to suffer the possibility of losing their life. Play God with your own life, not someone else's. All right then. Appealing to your somewhat shifting logic: If they were to save the life of the baby, they'd have to have kept the mother alive. Don't you think it's neglectful not to have helped both of them?


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

Tragic.


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

True, I cannot be pregnant. The closest I can get to such a situation is to imagine one of my daughters in that predicament and that it was my decision. Probably I would say terminate because I care more about the person I know than the fetus I don't know. Thank goodness I'll never have make such a decision, and I don't presume to judge those that have to make it.

But I don't necessarily consider that to be the most ethical decision. That's the thing about the whole abortion issue, IMO, it's lose-lose. There is no right attitude toward it.


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

My understanding was that the fetus was dying. It was not a question of whether to save the fetus or save the mother. The fetus was going to die no matter what they did. The issue was, why did the mother have to die just because the fetus was dying. All they got out of that was TWO deaths instead of ONE.

Such a tragic story--and such a horrible hospital policy and an inhumane religion that requires a woman must die to save a fetus OR because a fetus is dying. That is just downright sick!

Kate


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

Whole different take on this subject if men bore the babies.


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

Is it possible that hindsight is 20-20? Perhaps a doctor cannot always, or more likely, can never know with certainty who is going to die and when?

This kind of situation could and no doubt does happen in non-Catholic hospitals and countries.


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

Barbaric and medieval. We have the technology, the modern medicine, but not the logic or compassion. How very typical of religious idealism.

And people wonder why I don't have good things to say about this subject.

I mourn the loss of this woman, who wasn't even of the same faith, and did not have to die. The possibility of full recovery, and of carrying another pregnancy to full term might have been very good. But her husband will never know, because religion allowed... no, forced... the death of his wife.

There's no "sacred plan" in that. It's abominable, reprehensible, vile, and repugnant.


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

Why is a potential life more valuable than the life being lived?
Because that's what it always boils down to.


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

Hindsight 20-20? Sounds like they knew what was going on.

He went on: "A doctor said it was the law - that this is a Catholic country. Savita said, `I am neither Irish not Catholic' but they said there was nothing they could do."

He said the doctor said that the baby would not survive, but that as long as there was a foetal heartbeat "there was nothing they could do." Three days followed, he added, in which the heartbeak was checked several times a day.


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

If and when and where women have control over their own bodies you dont have to guess. The woman wanted an abortion.


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

As much as I love Ireland they do some stupid things like passing a Blasphemy law in 2009


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RE: "This is a Catholic country."

This is unspeakably shameful in the 21st century. How can any rational person let "religion" trump the value of saving the mother's life?

Oh, and WWJD?


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