I always tried to be a good parent, tried to not make some of the mistakes my parents did (although there were very few) but if I could do it over again, I'd never raise my voice and I would set a better example by not worrying so much in front of my children about things that never happened. That worrying aloud caused them undue stress.

But some things I did get right; one I'd like to share with some of you because I've shared it with others and they have had excellent results.

About the time our older daughter turned eleven, she became interested in music, began to want CDs, friends asked her to go skating or to the movies, etc. Our children always had some responsibilities around the house but did not receive an allowance.

So when it came time to address this need for a little spending money, I thought about the fact that so many children in our neighborhood were getting whatever they wanted and didn't seem to have an appreciation of where that money came from. We had always talked to our children about working for what you have, appreciating what your parents do for you, the responsibilities of parents and children in a family, etc. My daughters were the only kids on the block without a Nintendo, we've never had a XBox (?), we never subscribed to HBO or Showtime, and although they had nice clothes, some of them came from resale shops. It just made sense to recycle, save money, recover some of the money spent on their Christmas dresses and coats, etc. So they already had a background in knowing the value of things, the difference in being frugal and cheap, and how to look for quality and get the most for your money.

With this in mind, I proposed that we give both children a monthly amount, with extra responsibilities around the house. The amount was considerably larger than what they would normally have received, but from that allowance they were required to first pay themselves at least 15% to a savings account and to donate 10% to charity of some sort.

From the amount left over, they were required to purchase their own shampoo, conditioner, soap, bathroom tissue, bathroom cleaner, toothpaste, toothbrushes, etc. What was left over, they could spend on CDs, movies, food, gifts, etc.

Once a month I took them to the bank to cash the checks their Dad wrote to them, they immediately deposited 15% in the savings account; I would take them to Target or Walmart and watched as one daughter splurged on Pantene shampoo and the other decided that Suave products would do. We went to the Dollar Tree and bought cotton balls, coloring books, etc. I watched as they learned that if you can afford it, there is a difference in bathroom tissue that is preferable. There were a few times they came close to running out of money, but they learned they would have to wait until the next cycle to get the CD they wanted or whatever.

The result is one daughter out on her own, paying herself savings every month first like we taught her, living just below her means, and is not in debt. She seldom has any expendable income and very little in her pantry and refrigerator at times, but understands as I've always taught her that for the most part (exceptions for people with physical or mental handicaps) that our lives are a product of our decisions, including career decisions.

The other daughter is attending college but when I visit her, I find that many items she buys are generic and she definitely knows how to order at a restaurant, split a meal with a friend, order just the appetizer, etc. because she has an appreciation for money and not being wasteful.

This "experiment" turned out to be a wonderful teaching tool for our children and we were not in the position of opening our wallets and hearing pleas of "just $20."

My hope is that maybe some of you with children approaching this age might consider this experience and it perhaps adapt it to your situation.

It would be nice to hear of other parenting success stories.

We did something similar with our boys. In addition, when they were ready to drive, our deal was that they had to contribute (had to have save up) at least half the cost of the car and then the insurance, gas and maintenance was their responsibility. We have always believed that what you have earned yourself, you appreciate and take care of so much more than what has been given to you.

Each obtained a newspaper route at the age of 12 (earliest allowable age), and at 14, part time jobs at McDonald's. From that point, neither received any allowance from us, although we continued to pay for activities we wanted them to participate in and basic clothing, etc. If they wanted something more expensive, they had to supplement the basic cost of an item.

My daughter has been self-supporting since the age of 18, put herself through college after stints in the army and the Guard, and now has a good job in the oil business. My son won a full ROTC scholarship, lost most of it due to health problems, but still funded most of his college through work-study and student loans. He now has a good job in the computer business.

They learn responsibility well if you start young. It is fun to just give and give and give children things, but it is a very selfish pleasure which robs them of self sufficiency later in life.

...

When my kids were still in diapers, I decided I did not know that much about parenting effectively, and I attended a "Parent Effectiveness Training" (PET) class. In that class, I learned about 'Active Listening', 'I Messages', and 'Logical Consequences'. It is gratifying to observe that now, as adults, my offspring naturally have these skills to bring to bear in their own lives...and from time to time, they even use them on me!

;o)

If our kids wanted to drive, they had to be on the honor roll and stay there, so we could get the good student discount. Worked like a charm.

In addition, the one with ADHD had to take his meds. We weren't about to let him get behind the wheel and "forget" what he was doing. This was especially important to us when he was newly licensed and inexperienced. (Kids often don't like to take their meds, and this was one way to guide him in making the right decision without a lot of discussion. It was his choice to be able to drive.) That, too, worked like a charm.

The funny thing is that both of them are better drivers than my son without ADD.

I won't even go into child rearing methods... mainly because I already know we're the exception rather than the norm when it comes to many of those methods. The important thing is that my children are all grown, happy and successful, each doing what they want, and each attaining their own level of success... and I have three wonderful grandchildren.

I think the one thing we all need to keep in mind is that we can point our offspring in the right direction, but we can't make them go where we want... all we can do is arm them with the ammunition to be successful and happy, but they are the ones who must make the trip.

Bad parenting is when things are made too easy for the children. There is NO lesson learned.

Currently we use stickers. She doesn't really know the value of a dollar, but she knows the value of a sticker. She wants to buy herself a Barbie movie, and knows that it will cost her 30 stickers. She hasn't decided yet if the movie is worth a month of stickers. I'm glad that at 6 she is thinking about the value of something, and if her hard earned sitckers are worth it. Recently I told her I didn't want her buying anymore stuff, as her room and playroom were messy. I told her if she can't keep her current things picked up, it was not ok to buy more. Suddenly she started cleaning her room without being told! I was amazed!

Recently a church that we sponsor in India experienced a terrible flood. My husband and I donated some money to help them rebuild (lives were lost, including a pastor, so it was a very devastating flood). We talked to her about how the families will have to start over buying plates, beds, everything, and that a lot of food had washed away. She said "I want to help them, but I'd like to think about it." I explained that $5.00 would probably buy a big bag of rice. I think that made it more concrete for her. So she quickly ran to her bank, got $5. I had her put it in the envelope and write on the envelope, so she'd be more involved and "remember" better.

Thanks. I thought it was just me.

I think one of the biggest problems that I see with many parents today is that they aren't arming their children with the tools and knowledge to be successful in life. There's so many parents giving everything and doing everything for their children that kids just aren't learning to be self-sufficient.

Example: I have a sister who works at admissions for a college, and has been their for decades. She has noticed a major shift in recent years of the number of parents being the ones filling out applications, checking in with the registration office, and doing all the work for their kids in regard to their college future. These are kids that are going to be on their own, trying to make their own life decisions in very short order, and yet their parents are the ones doing it all for them.

Example 2: I have a friend that is part of HR for a large company. Similar to my other example, over the years he has seen a ton of parents being the ones filling out applications, calling him about job info, and even accompanying their children to interviews!! These "children" have already gotten a college degree, and one would expect them to be able to handle such matters themselves -- it's helicopter parenting at its worst.

Parents are supposed to help their kids learn to deal with the realities of life, by slowly introducing the ideas of responsibility, work ethics, time schedules, etc., to the child. There have been several excellent examples in this thread of parents doing just that, but on the whole, it seems like many parents of the recent generation or two feel that they are somehow depriving or hurting their child if they expect certain responsibilities out of them. I really feel that parents who try to do everything for their kids are NOT helping them, and it's a detriment to the child and to society as a whole.

I have a cousin who is an admissions counselor, and she also dittos what you said.

I think some parents are so busy, and I've been guilty of this myself, it's easier to do it for them, then teach them how to do it.

Not every kid is like that. Certainly not my son, who is now applying for scholarships and schools, and needs, shall we say, considerably more coercion.

It just slips his mind - as sometimes happens with teenage boys.

We'll help him over the next 6 weeks because the school he choses and the scholarships he gets are just too important. Not that we fill stuff out or contact the schools or any of that, but that we'll make sure that he does so himself, and does a good job. And hopefully, we'll still be speaking to each other at Christmas.

Reminding, pushing, and helping do not make you a helicopter parent. Sitting down and doing all the work for your kid? That's where the issue is.

At 18, my GS isn't as smart as I wish he were, but his mother didn't help him w/homework cause she 'didn't like it'. She and DS divorced and she had custody since DS lived out of state. I took it upon myself when he was still in grade school to ask how he was doing in school, as did DS. Of course, not well, and when DS would come home to visit several times a year, DS would talk to his teachers/help with homework, every single day. He would even have the teacher email him to inform him how his son was doing and what he needed to do. After he would leave, all went back to normal~DS was totally frustrated. We have all agreed GS wouldn't do well in Junior College(lack of motivation will bring failing grades),so we have been talking about the military, where he *could* get an education once he got motivated, which is his BIGGEST problem. Other than this, he's a great kid who loves being with his family(choose to live w/his Father after he graduated HS this year),and doesn't do drugs or drink,

The young man needs structure, something he has never had, and also something to give him motivation. Has anyone else ever had this sort of situation w/a child? TIA

Sometime talking about the future as a what if situation or discussing jobs that a person may only be qualified for can help. Some times the light bulb never comes on.

He knew, it, too, which is why he wanted that job. Such kids naturally gravitate toward the military, but do you realy want to take that risk right now, while we are in a dangerous war? In the end, of course, it will be his choice, but this is a perfect example of a need for skilled active listening by the more currently concerned parent. A brief volunteer stint in a local "Contact" organization, or a PET class (there are many books on this as well) give a good basic grounding in active listening. If you feel unable to do this yourself, any good counselor will be able to do it for you.

As a former caseworker, I observed many examples of the effect of divorce on a child, and your grandson's problem is a typical result. It is difficult for a single parent to do it all, and some make matters worse by overindulging a child in order to make up for a divorce.

Hopefully he does not already have a car--I have seen giving such a youth a car for nothing destroy the best motivation to achieve that many of that age group have. Working in order to be able to afford to purchase a car is an excellent motivational starting point, until the other secondary benefits of self application start to kick in. If he already has one, at least make him work to purchase his own fuel, dating money, etc. A person of that age should at least have a part time job to handle such things.
You might also consider using one of the ability testing services to see where his aptitudes lie.

The young man has sent out signals that he needs help, so it is good that you are willing to give some.

My dh had done well in high school and he was accepted to the Naval Academy. He lasted for one term and that was it. He was in no way prepared for for the environment there. He then served 4 years in the Marine Corps, we began dating 6 months before his enlistment was up.

After being married about 2 years he went back to school. He found a field that he truly enjoys which he never even knew existed prior to that. The GI Bill benefits were a godsend, he graduated with no student debt. His life experience helped him to excel at school. He now excels in his work. Sure, he started his life job when he was 31 but he should still be able to retire at 56 with a pension (state government) which is still very young.

Our oldest is 11, and very interested in the military. Would I encourage him to go that direction? I cannot really say at this point, who knows what the world will look like 7 years from now.

Once they start making money, we buy all the basics and buy most of the expensive toys, but our daughters pay for gas, entertainment, designer clothes, cell phones etc. As long as they maintain high grades and show outstanding work ethic, we reward them with luxuries like season amusement park/ski/golf/fitness passes, snowmobiles, waverunners, horses etc since we encourage fitness and outdoor activities.

The social networking at golf courses, country clubs, the horse track, ski areas etc is also good for current future business connections. It's not what you know, but who you know.

I buy, maintain and repair newer vehicles vehicles for our teenage daughters since I don't want them driving the deathtraps that I see many teenagers driving, plus they use their vehicles to help with our businesses, their sisters and household duties.

Since most of our jobs moved to the suburbs, many urban teens lack reliable transportation necessary to commute to 1/2/3 part-time, temporary or seasonal jobs many miles away/apart. Since there are so many overqualified, unemployed, under-employed urban residents competing for very few jobs, the urban teens often can't make the money necessary to afford vehicle payments, maintenance, repairs, gas, insurance, registration, inspection etc.

In addition, many urban teens lack on-street parking, off-street parking, or they can't afford parking tickets, towing or impound fees, so owning a vehicle isn't even a possibility due to parking issues.

Working teens without transportation often put a huge burden on parents, or relatives that drive double the mileage dropping them off, then picking them up from part time jobs with few hours. The cost of gas, lost time, plus vehicle wear and tear often isn't worth it, especially when teens are only working 2/3/4 hours. Since many households have single, or working parents, they don't have time to haul teens back and forth from work.

Many of the vehicles that the teens can afford are older vehicles with high miles and bad or borderline tires, brake rotors/drums, calipers/wheel cylinders, brake lines, brake hoses, gas lines, gas tanks, steering and suspension components.

I've seen dozens of teens driving vehicles with illegal compression fittings on brakelines, rusted/rotted brakelines, bald mis-matched tires, trashed rotors, thin brake pads, tires with bulges, slashes, exposed steel belts, rotted/leaking gas tanks/lines...too much to list.

Due to the NYS emissions inspection, it also costs a small fortune to troubleshoot, repair or replace electronic/sensor/vacuum/exhaust related emissions equipment on 1996 and newer vehicles. Many teens can't afford this, so they end up junking the vehicle, they buy a pre-1996 junker, or buy a cheap deathtrap junker with a current inspection sticker.

Here in the North Country, the underside of vehicles is trashed due to sand and salt, plus driving is dangerous due to hills, snow, ice, black ice, narrow roads, scraper banks blocking visibility, deer, large trucks, large SUVs etc.

Also imo, the outdated vehicle situation is a direct result of the underpayment of workers during the last twenty years or so. The market is there for new vehicles, but most can't really afford them. The overpriced housing market prompted many to take out home equity loans to purchase high-priced vehicles, and many lost their homes as a result.The decision by the auto industry to make extremely expensive SUVs to maximize profits on individual vehicle sales, with little consideration for what the workers at the bottom of the tier needed, was also, of course, a large factor for which they are now, and justifiably, paying dearly. I personally drove a Chevette and then an Omni during most of my casework career, switching to a sedan-sized vehicle when my DH finally replaced his first car and gave his old one to me. You can't afford a costly vehicle on a caseworker's salary unless your Daddy gave it to you. I was required to use my own vehicle on the job, and there was little way to avoid rough back roads or high mileage...I generally refused to do transports, as the county would not provide the proper insurance for that.

Your basic point is accurate, though--in our present, unfair economy, it is difficult to use vehicle ownership as a motivational device if you have maximum safety in mind. The same inner city kids may still be safer driving a junker than walking to work, though...and there is no better motivation for a vehicle purchase than using ineffective public transportation.

The bottom line is that, as you go down the economic scale, you must take more risks to survive. The poorer our economy, for whatever reason, the more risks that must be taken.

I wonder if he'd be a candidate for a very short term certificate type program (like 6 or 9 months)? Check in your town or if it's a small town in your county, for a Workforce office. They will know about "Hot Jobs" in the area and what type of training is required. Or a Vo-Tech. Or, maybe full time work would be a better option. I kind of disagree with another poster on the car issue. If he's a realtively trust worthy kid, I'd be tempted to say "Here's a car as long as you keep your job and pay for gas and insurance and have a good driving record."

Yes, often adult households, or parents of the unemployed teens are unemployed themselves, can't afford reliable vehicles, or have no parking. Vandalism, theft and parked vehicle hit and runs are also greater concerns in low income urban areas.

Many lower income residents also lack a driver's license, clean driver's license and/or have prior fines/penalties to deal with in order to get their license, or to register a vehicle. Insurance, or motor vehicle related legal representation is unfordable to many due to DUIs, tickets etc.

Since many jobs require driving, clean driving records and/or the use of a personal vehicle, this really limits their job opportunities.

Due to the economy, many lower income people let their insurance, registration or inspections lapse. They suspend their license, suspend their registration (until they pay the per-day no registration fine) and/or tow and impound their vehicles.

In the past, people driving without current insurance, registration and inspection could sneak by, but city wide sweeps, roadblocks and the license plate readers in police vehicles make it nearly impossible.

Due to the lack of city parking and/or apartments/landlords prohibiting vehicle repairs on the property, many people also have nowhere to perform their own maintenance and repairs, so they're at the mercy of garages that charge well north of $100 per hour including labor and parts mark-up. Since these customers often lack vehicle repair knowledge, many garages will pad their bills with additional labor, ultra-high parts mark-up or charge for unnecessary parts and services.

Many of the low income city residents also lack the tools, equipment, knowledge and skills to perform their own vehicle maintenance and repairs. When they can't afford to repair their vehicles, they'll often sell them for pennies on the dollar, or junk them.

Since many of the low income residents have poor credit, poor work history and insufficient income, they often buy older used high mileage vehicles from buy-here-pay-her car dealers. They'll pay 3/4/5 thousand dollars in down-payment and weekly payments for an older high mileage vehicle that's worth less than a thousand bucks. Many of these vehicles are repossessed due to non payment, then sold to the next income/credit challenged victim. Once they very short warranty expires, the cost of repair often exceeds the cost of the remaining payments and value of the vehicle, so the owners will stop making payments, or junk the vehicle.

Due to the lack of public transportation and lack of urban jobs, we see many people that spend more than half of their paycheck taking expensive taxis back and forth to work. These people often quit working due to the expense of transportation.

Many of these people will never get back on their feet since rents and other major expenses have skyrocketed, while unskilled/semi-skilled jobs, hours and wages have stagnated or decreased.

When did you first notice your GS was struggling in school, and what seemed to give him the most trouble? Do you know if he was ever screened or tested for any learning differences? If so, what was the result? Was testing brought up but not pursued? Did his parents have any school or work difficulties themselves?