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People Clamoring for Obamacare

Posted by demifloyd 8 (My Page) on
Sat, Nov 16, 13 at 15:26

All those people who were waiting for the ones we've been waiting for, in Barack Obama's words.

Couldn't wait for government health care to save them.

The numbers in these states:


"5. Alaska
The Kaiser Family Foundation estimated that the potential market size for individual health insurance in Alaska is around 78,000. During the first month of operation, a grand total of 53 Alaskans selected a health plan through the HealthCare.gov website. That's just 0.068% of the potential market.

4. North Dakota
North Dakota had only 42 intrepid individuals sign up on the Obamacare website . The potential market size for the state is 77,000. Those smaller numbers resulted in North Dakota's having only 0.055% of residents who could sign up for insurance actually doing so.

3. Iowa
The Hawkeye State's potential market size is considerably larger. Kaiser estimated that 262,000 residents would be in need of individual insurance. However, only 136 Iowa residents -- just 0.052% of the market -- actually enrolled in an Obamacare plan.

2. Mississippi
Mississippi's market size, according to Kaiser, is around 298,000. Only 148 residents in the state signed up on the federal Obamacare website. This reflects a paltry 0.050% of the potential market.

1. South Dakota
The worst state of all in terms of Obamacare enrollment, though, was South Dakota. Just 58 people in the state selected a health plan on HealthCare.gov. That's a minuscule 0.049% of the state's estimated market size of 118,000. There's no word on whether four of those 58 enrollees carried the last names of Washington, Jefferson, Roosevelt, and Lincoln."--from The Motley Fool November 16, 2013


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Fanatics...UNITE!


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

We are all quite aware of the fact that bright red states often would rather cut off their noses to spite their faces (my mother's favorite regionalism) than do something that could greatly benefit their health, and perhaps even be subsidized.

But who wants good healthcare when you can thumb your nose (what's left of it) at the President?

Kate


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

But who wants good healthcare when you can thumb your nose (what's left of it) at the President?

Kate

*

People that truly need it just like Obama said.
People who were sick and needed care and would get it as soon as they could through Obamacare.

Guess there weren't but a handful.
Did you read the numbers?

All this train wreck and ruin healthcare for people that already had it and were lied to about being able to keep their policies, for such small numbers of people to be covered?

To say we smell a rat is an understatement.

It's a chicken.

And it's roosting.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Pathetic. Both the skewoup and and handflapping. I remember the angst when Medicare started slowly with gaffe after gaffe showing up. Romneycare in Mass enrolled in the first month less than a third percentage wise as has Obama Care. Took more than a year for both programs to come on line fullly.

Of course there were a lot more sensible and reasonable people back then than now. What can we expect these days of dittoheads and Foxbobs.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Do any of those States have their own exchanges and websites, like California , or are they States that refused to participate and therefore their citizens must deal at a Federal level?

From what I have heard the States that are administrating the plan themselves are doing much better.....maybe because those States actually care more about their citizens than "getting" the President.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Demi....what a world of difference between a liberal and or a conservative/independent.
Liberals jump and make decisions without giving thought to the big picture.
Conservatives didn't have anything to do with this obamacare because they COULD see the big picture.
It had nothing to do with obama and everything to do with the fact it was an oxygen tank sitting beside an open fire.

This is what happens when a president is voted in not because of his intelligence but because of the color of his skin.
He is president not because of experience......not because he wanted to make America a better place to live...not because he was capable of doing the job.
Because he was going to be ..at last..............our first black president.
Why couldn't the democrats have waited for Colin Powell or Con Rice who either one would have been prepared for ruling the free world, if they had wanted to make a statement.
No.......they jumped on the band wagon and went full speed ahead.
What they gave us is a guy who is enamored of sports players. He is like a little boy........he would rather meet
and play basketball with a celeb than meet with a leader.
I have decided he knows he is out of his league and comes off looking like a novice so he would rather play with the celebs because with them he can be the top dog.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

"It had nothing to do with obama "

followed immediately by....

"This is what happens when a president is voted in not because of his intelligence but because of the color of his skin.
He is president not because of experience......not because he wanted to make America a better place to live...not because he was capable of doing the job.
Because he was going to be ..at last..............our first black president. "

I love it when I don't even have to make a comment to make a point....


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

This is what happens when a president is voted in not because of his intelligence but because of the color of his skin.

Well, that's new. Last time your argument was that Obama won because he stationed big thugs at the polling booths.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Organizing for America has been tweeting some cool ideas on making health care a part of your holiday celebration.

Parents are supposed to set aside time over the holidays to discuss health care with all of their kids.

I am posting this information for our liberal friends just in case they have not heard they need to get their OFA topic of conversation on their agendas. I expect our own family will be discussing "health care" too. Just for the fun of it, though. Not because a political group told us to.

How many liberals here will be doing what OFA asks of you, now that you know about it?


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

See how easy it is to identify a Conservative. Coincidence that Consistency starts with a C. So does Condescension. And Cockamamie as well as Conspiracy and Curlish


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Conservatives opposed Obamacare from the beginning because they were so far-sighted? Crack me up--that is hilarious!

Should we pull up all the older threads in which Conservatives/t-partiers/Republicans are QUOTED as saying "say NO to anything and everything Obama. We will make him a one-term president."

LOL LOL LOL. Talk about foresight! LOL

Kate


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

I love it when I don't even have to make a comment to make a point....

:)

They do all the work themselves.

Marshall, spot on yet again with your posts.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 16, 13 at 17:57

Clamoring? Nah, I can wait. Apparently our present over priced policy is good enough to stand for now, it better be for about $14K/year for 2 +Co-pays, Rx', and some tests balances. Once the new system is running smoothly, and it will eventually, I'll check to compare our present plan with the Platinum plan offered at the site. My financial sit changes next year and I can wait a while to look into it. I suspect there are several millions in our position who will give it some time. I feel for those who are on the short end of this stick, but it does sound like those cut rate policies can put one's life in the hands of insurance adjuster rather than a doctor....the one who takes the oath.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 16, 13 at 18:41

Fer cryin out loud, qui'tcher belly achin' and give it time.

In my lifetime Medicare had a very rocky start, and George Bush's Medicare Drug program stumbled badly too. Eventually, they were fixed and people wouldn't want to be without either program now.

I imagine SS did too, and there are politicians who are still whining about that.

And no one has died from the ACA, unlike.....oh... say.......the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan started by George Bush. And then there is Katrina.

This post was edited by momj47 on Sat, Nov 16, 13 at 19:46


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Here's the report from the Washington Post about the official data that was released from the U.S. Dept. of HHS. Lots more people signed up but only a fraction of those who completed the application completed the process. The insurance companies are probably the most alarmed, having planned on getting so much new business.

Here is a link that might be useful: wapo


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Marshall, I feel bad for you- perhaps we can get you a bumper sticker or a button that says:
"Today's Conservative:- not in my name."


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Thanks alexr


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

George Bush didn't cause Katrina.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Rather than start another futile thread on the ACA, I'm posting a link to "Access, Affordability, and Insurance Complexity Are Often Worse in the United States Compared to 10 Other Countries".

Then I am returning with another less technical analysis by Bruce Bartlett.

From the cited link of the study found in Commonwealth Fund report:


Synopsis

A 2013 survey conducted in 11 countries finds that U.S. adults are significantly more likely than their counterparts to forgo health care because of the cost, to have difficulty paying for care even when they have insurance, and to deal with time-consuming insurance issues"

The Bottom Line

Across the industrialized world, residents of the U.S. are the most likely to endorse major reforms to their health care system, perhaps signaling difficulty in affording care and dealing with insurance paperwork and complexity.

Citation

C. Schoen, R. Osborn, D. Squires, and M. M. Doty, "Access, Affordability, and Insurance Complexity Are Often Worse in the United States Compared to 10 Other Countries," Health Affairs Web First, published online Nov. 14, 2013.

Here is a link that might be useful: Access, Affordability, and Insurance Complexity Are Often Worse in the United States Compared to 10 Other Countries


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RE: How America’s Health System Stacks Up Against Other Develop

Bartlett's expanded discussion is issued by Fiscal Times, entitled:

How America’s Health System Stacks Up Against Other Developed Countries

Here is a link that might be useful: How America’s Health System Stacks Up Against Other Developed Countries


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 16, 13 at 21:51

George Bush didn't cause Katrina.

He didn't help much either, did he?

And how about those wars.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

George Bush did things a little differently mom...he went to congress. And there was a bipartisan resolution.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

he went to congress. . .

after an unprecedented number of trips by Cheney to the CIA. The Vice President was determined to receive the intelligence he wanted, no matter how many times he had to brow beat Tenet.

The resolution was obtained by the lies, maneuvers, and manipulations of Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Rice, and others. At least the British made the attempt to show what liars Blair and his friends were. I doubt that anything of that sort will ever take place here.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

As one of the leading Bush apologists, mrskjun is trying out some historical revisionism here about who wanted to invade Iraq and who decided to invade Iraq when it was not necessary or wise to do so.

The resolution was cleverly designed piece of legislation that in hindsight was nothing more that a predicate for a War Mr. Bush fully intended to wage regardless of what the facts were.

The Resolution "supported" and "encouraged " diplomatic efforts by Bush. However, it did not specify any requirement to use diplomacy, to wait for inspection results, or to adhere to any timelines or deadlines. So, even if Iraq complied with UN Resolutions with ongoing weapons inspections, Bush could order an invasion. As it turned out, that is exactly what the moron did.

The resolution also authorized Bush to use the Armed Forces of the United States "as he determines to be necessary and appropriate" in order to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq.
When was it that Bush proved that Iraq posed a threat to the national security of the United States ?

This resolution was never meant as a carte blance authorization for Bush to invade Iraq. Bush abused his authority by foisting a war propaganda campaign filled with lies, embellishments, plagiarism and false promises (like the oil we would get would pay for the Trillion dollar debt creating war) to get Saddam Hussein. Yes Saddam was the guy who threatened to kill Bush's father and Dubya sought personal revenge.
Saddam Hussein became a scapegoat for Bush who failed to kill Osama Bin Laden and provided a diversion from accusations about the egregious criminal negligence of Bush prior to 9/11.

Oh mkjun: I linked to a video below so you can disabuse yourself of the notion that Bush was truthful and genuinely wanted to avoid war when he sought this Resolution. Instead, he kicked out the weapons inspectors even as weapons were being destroyed and it became obvious that there was no evidence of a nuclear weapons program. Bush lied for a war that killed thousands of Americans after his negligence on 9/11 already killed over 3,000.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bush lied to Congress and the American people

This post was edited by heri_cles on Sat, Nov 16, 13 at 23:15


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Well, heri and nancy went after the chum thrown by mrskjun. Blood in the water, a stench of wretched history to deflect focus from ACA and the health care crisis in the US. The smell of partisanship is nearly as fetid.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

There is a health care crisis and the best legislation (said very warily) given the number of lobbyists that were teeming on the Hill -- seven for each elected official -- seems to be ACA. Certainly not the single-payer that many were working for, but better than the do-nothing proposals of the McCain campaign.

Time will tell how the reform will evolve. Given the recent under-handedness of the big insurers (at least in California), I wonder if any reform can be made while they're still in the game. Maybe their behaviour will finally disgust enough people so that single-payer becomes a reality.

As for taking the chum, I am at a loss as to how anyone can defend the worst U.S. blunder in a century or two -- lost lives, destroyed lives, trillions down the crapper, health crises in Iraq due to DU, and worsened destabilization of the Middle East.

I hope that I am never so partisan as to be blinded to the wrongs done in my name.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Marshall, petty partisanship is no big deal. It's the personal ugliness that's stinky, IMHO.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 16, 13 at 23:41

George Bush did things a little differently mom...he went to congress. And there was a bipartisan resolution.

ROTFL.......you must be kidding. Maybe in the GOP universe that works.

George Bush and Dick Cheney went to Congress, and the UN, with LIES, LIES and more LIES. And thousands and thousands of men and women, not only from the US, but from allies mislead by the LIES, died in two unnecessary and illegal wars. And then there are the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan who gave their lives for our LIES. And they are still dying. It's sickening.

Don't ever think you can pass off the dishonesty of Cheney/Bush as honorable or legitimate.

At least President Obama is trying to make things better for Americans - especially Americans who can't even afford to go to the doctor. And the GOP wants to keep them out of the doctor's office. Shame on them.

This post was edited by momj47 on Sat, Nov 16, 13 at 23:44


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

The dems are still using Bush as a fall guy for the bad eggs obama keeps laying.
Its become comical that anytime the truth gets too close for comfort...the liberals haul out Bush.
Anything Bush did or didn't do has no role in obamacare,
Benghazi, Secret Service hookers........unemployment,
etc.
It is what it is. It is the big laid egg of a Rooster.
You folks should have put the Hen in the WH.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Just who is going to gauge the degree of petty partisanship with cadres of chum-takers hot to support and reject specific issues based on supporting "our" side against the "others"? What you might consider petty, others might find offensive enough to be a impeachable crime or even a war crime.

Personalizing these issues is ugly and I try not to participate, but some posters are just unconscionably unjust, untruthful, or hateful.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Lies don't seem to bother some when they come from the mouths of the Republicans and Conservatives or even their fellow posters. It's part of the selective outrage we have pointed out on so many threads and so many topics. Same ole same ole carp as we see above.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

"Same ole same ole carp as we see above."

And you, epiphyticlvr, (and yes, I also am) are part of that problem.

"What you might consider petty, others might find offensive enough to be a impeachable crime or even a war crime."

You misunderstand what I said, marshall. I apologize for choosing the word "trivial;" you are not a mind reader. I use "trivial" as defined to mean "narrow minded," as opposed to "trivial." I don't consider anyone's opinion and/or beliefs petty (trivial). I consider the one-upmanship petty, and I consider the blatant personal insults, such as calling other posters "dumb" or "lacking comprehension", and so on ad nauseum, petty (narrow-minded).


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

understood and apologies returned in kind and manly weight.

:)


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

And you, epiphyticlvr, (and yes, I also am) are part of that problem

Elvis, perhaps but quite frankly of late I have participated less because I am tired of the same ole nonsense and being in the middle of it so I have chosen to SOB some posters and you are on that list. I have been ignoring your continued snipes directed at me and my posts the past several days if you haven't noticed and today here you are again with this one. You have the choice to do the same with me and mine. Now I will return to ignoring you.

This post was edited by epiphyticlvr on Sun, Nov 17, 13 at 10:43


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

marshallz said:

some posters are just unconscionably unjust, untruthful, or hateful.

That's quite an accusation to make ...about anyone.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

The stench caused by the worst inept President in our history will forever change this country in so many ways. Bush, Cheney(what a waste of a perfectly good heart to save this evil person), and all their cohorts destroyed two countries with their lies and killed thousands upon thousands. Bush with his stupidity didn't cause Katrina, but he and Atta boy Brownie were responsible for all the deaths from the inept way they handled the crisis. Nightline's Ted Koppel told them to turn on the TV when they professed ignorance about the tragedy unfolding.

Don't EVEN go there about ACA. The GOP wants it to fail, because if it doesn't then the man they hate will get credit in the history books. SS, Medicare had initial problems. This is a huge undertaking, but it will be resolved.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Thanks for thinking of me first marshall, but I wasn't the one that tossed the chum.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sun, Nov 17, 13 at 9:21

Bush might be a chum to some but not me.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

I guess what with the increase in her premiums and all, citywoman can't afford all those asterisks she used to throw around.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Posted by ninamarie 4Ont. (My Page) on
Sun, Nov 17, 13 at 9:57

I guess what with the increase in her premiums and all, citywoman can't afford all those asterisks she used to throw around.

*

This is your response to a widow whose insurance policy she liked and wanted and needed was raised in premiums by hundreds of dollars a month?

Pick on the victims, will you.

You've got yours, eh?


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

•Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Sun, Nov 17, 13 at 1:19

"understood and apologies returned in kind and manly weight.
:) "

Fair enough ;-)

•Posted by heri_cles 10 (My Page) on Sun, Nov 17, 13 at 2:54

"marshallz said:
some posters are just unconscionably unjust, untruthful, or hateful.

That's quite an accusation to make ...about anyone."

"Assertion" might be more accurate, IMO. "Accusation" has negative connotations. FWIW, I honestly don't think many would disagree with marshall's statement in that regard. Any difference might be that some might want to attach qualifiers to the statement. I digress.

Back to the OP: "All those people who were waiting for the ones we've been waiting for, in Barack Obama's words."

Is that an actual quote from the president? If so, any ideas about what he meant?


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Is that an actual quote from the president?
--

Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EWLeKGI0ro

*

If so, any ideas about what he meant?

--No, and I'm not sure he did either.
But it sounded good at the time.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Yikes. He did say that...wonder what he meant.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Speaking of hearts, Lily, I recently read a short piece... though I can't recall which news source... in which Cheney was asked about his heart transplant, and about the donor and how it made him feel, to paraphrase the author... and his basic response was something to the tune of... he didn't even think about the donor or have any kind of consideration for all those involved in saving his life.

I was actually kind of stunned to read that a recipient in such an important and life saving event wouldn't even care enough to comment positively on the donor, the family of the donor, or anyone else involved in the procedure that literally saved their life, giving them a new lease on it.

But that's off-topic and just an aside... so... here's something we hope you'll really like! Link below...

Here is a link that might be useful: Deliberate Sabotage...


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

elvis asserted:
I honestly don't think many would disagree with marshall's statement (that some posters are just unconscionably unjust, untruthful, or hateful.)

First off the statement was way over the top and it is untrue.
No one here is hateful and the term unconscionable should be reserved for far more egregious conduct or outrageous positions then any posters take on this forum. (mainly just Republican or Democratic with the exception of those who have been banned) For someone who prides themselves on semi-clever use of language, I am kind of shocked that marshallz went that far.

Perhaps his was just throwing out as a proverbial grenade in the hope that it would some intended target. (like me or Nancy). If so, that was a cowardly exercise meant to circumvent the rules of the forum.
If anyone truly believes that our posters here are that hateful they probably need to step back from this forum for a while in order to get a broader perspective on public opinion and everyday political discourse in this country.

This post was edited by heri_cles on Sun, Nov 17, 13 at 13:07


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Wow, my little popoverthemoon became a grenade. And to read that my remarks were directed at Nancy, a great heart and mind and far-neighbor, is unconscionable. Why should my remarks be directed at the most liberal posters and be criticized by one of the most liberal member of this board?

I have been visiting this board for more than a decade and have read many ugly, hateful, untruthful and/or unjust statements thrown out (I always hope) in the heat of the moment (and I hope regretted in quieter times.)

Blame my advancing years on lapses of tolerance toward such statements and threads. Otherwise I have nothing to apologize for.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Let the moderators police the forum and try to remain tolerable of those who throw out chum as well as those with an appetite for it.

And if you any question about this, look who gobbled down the chum you threw out.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Jodi..I did read about Cheney's callous remark about his new heart...that he gives no thought to the person who had the heart, because it's MY heart now.

He got the best coverage all those many years when he's had a gazillion heart attacks starting at a young age, the machine implanted in his heart, all the by passes, and now a new heart. How many of us would have been dead after the first health crisis?

A terrible shame that this heart would be used to keep alive a slimy miserable old man who is the evilest person ever to hold the VP office.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

jodi: "... I recently read a short piece... though I can't recall which news source... in which Cheney was asked about his heart transplant, and about the donor and how it made him feel, to paraphrase the author... and his basic response was something to the tune of... he didn't even think about the donor or have any kind of consideration for all those involved in saving his life.
I was actually kind of stunned to read that a recipient in such an important and life saving event wouldn't even care enough to comment positively on the donor, the family of the donor, or anyone else involved in the procedure that literally saved their life, giving them a new lease on it.

But that's off-topic and just an aside... so..."

It certainly is off topic, but since you brought it up:

"Cheney does not know who donated the heart he received, since medical protocols keep that information confidential. There are, however, intermediaries who can reach out to a donor's family to see if they would be willing to meet recipients, and Cheney said he was "amenable" to making contact. If he does, he wants to express his gratitude for the generous gift he received.

“I can’t think of a more magnificent gift than to be given additional years of life," he said.""

If you find that source of yours, jodi, please do post it.

-------

BTW, and IMO, marshall was on the money, at least from my prospective and I daresay there are others. Nothing to apologize for. Trivializing those poison darts doesn't diminish their capacity to wound. If causing harm is the intent, the behavior is indeed inconscionable. I'm not talking about bickering and snarking; I'm referring to pointed personal remarks meant to impugn the intelligence/integrity of another poster or group of posters, i.e., "You lack reading comprehension." "You are a liar." "Liberals are mindless."

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that is the sort of forum the moderators/owners have in mind?

Here is a link that might be useful: Cheney Says Grateful


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

The incredible irony would be if the donor had no health care insurance......but then again maybe that's the end game. Rich people with great coverage living on organs donated by those who haven't the means to access the same care.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sun, Nov 17, 13 at 18:01

Cheney is 0 for 2 when it comes to having a heart.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

That's it in a nutshell, Chase, as unfortunate as it is.

Lily, in my opinion... and by all that's logical and right... Cheney should be sharing a prison cell right now with his good buddy, George... but aside from excellent health care coverage and new hearts, money also buys some people the influence it takes to remain free from any kind of legal hassles, like conviction and imprisonment, when they commit such crimes against humanity.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Wow, Chase. Not only did you manage to insult Cheny, you managed to dismiss the tragedy of the death of the donor, the generosity of the donor and the donors family in making a donation to someone unknown to them, for no monetary reward, simply because it is a good thing to do as a last gift. I don't think I have read anything in years that manages to insult innocents in so many ways.

Are you aware that it takes a special effort to contact the family of the donor or conversely the recipient of the organ. In most cases it is not done because one or the other does not wish to be known. In such a case it is against the law.

I'll run right down to the DMV tomorrow and get my drivers license changed to forbid any use of any of my body parts that may help someone else. You have certainly convinced me without even addressing the image of body parts stolen from unwilling victims of the state to supply an unending line of available transplants to the rich and politically connected.

Jodi, Transplant recipients are not chosen for their political positions no matter what you might think about it. Frankly, your comment makes me very happy that you won't ever be on a transplant committee. That kind of thinking is just about what caused Cheney to be concerned about attempts on his life through the pacemaker.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

"
"Posted by sleeplessinftwayne z4-5 IND (My Page) on Mon, Nov 18, 13 at 3:00

Wow, Chase. Not only did you manage to insult Cheny, you managed to dismiss the tragedy of the death of the donor, the generosity of the donor and the donors family in making a donation to someone unknown to them, for no monetary reward, simply because it is a good thing to do as a last gift. I don't think I have read anything in years that manages to insult innocents in so many ways."

Sleepless, I agree with you.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

"marshallz said:
some posters are just unconscionably unjust, untruthful, or hateful.

I agree with him, Heri,

check out the above posts by Chase, Jodik, and Lily.

It's good to be back in the states. I couldn't instigate a good argument in Canada. :)


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

I'm truly apologize if my post came across that way. I have nothing but respect for those who donate their organs and the families who make those decisions.

My sister was part of the Ontario Organ Transplant Emergency Response Team for several years and then went on to head up clinical trials for heart transplant drugs. My Aunt received a kidney.

I have no respect for Cheney so will make no apology there.

My point was only related to lack of affordable health care for the poor. I recently heard on the news that paying for transplants, ie buying organs , is being considered in the States. I hope that is not so.

Here is a link that might be useful: Buying organs


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Chase, I saw a clip of the Fox talking heads cheerfully supporting the rights of people to sell their own body parts. The irony was that they defended their position by saying that the government should not have any control over another person’s body. My mouth dropped in light of the number of laws and speeches aimed at limiting women’s rights to their own bodies. Do these buffoons hear themselves?


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

I can't imagine such a law would ever pass but if it did I think it would likely be the rich buying organs from the poor....maybe I'm mistaken


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

This is the most disgusting thread I have ever read in over 7 years on this forum--and not for what I started it for, but for the posts about Dick Cheney's heart transplant.

When you tell us who you are we believe you.
And did you.

This post was edited by demifloyd on Mon, Nov 18, 13 at 9:32


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

I am fully aware of the transplant system within this nation, the health care system within this nation (that some people are trying to change for the better)... and I'm also fully aware of what wealth and influence can buy.

With the umpteen other threads on the Affordable Care Act and the obvious reasons behind them, why would it be such a surprise that strict "subject material" would not be adhered to, or that it would devolve or derail like so many others?

Exactly how many threads does it take to keep the GOP's ACA agenda front and center and on top of search engines everywhere?

When I first mentioned Cheney's transplant, I also said it was an aside... a footnote... something I had read... and then, if you'll go back and look, I posted a link to bring the thread back to topic.

I'm terribly sorry we can't have a conversation that involves anything other than how awfully the ACA is moving along, or one in which peoples' opinions can't be laid out, even if they are sometimes derogatory in regard to our very corrupt political system and the politicians who make it that way.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Cheney might be grateful, but based on what he said in his interview with Larry King, he really doesn't have any desire to know anything about his donor. He considers his heart his new heart, not someone's old heart.

He "generically" thanks donors.

He comes across as heartless to me.

~Ann

Here is a link that might be useful: Cheney


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

That reminds me of a story I saw on television last year, a family who had lost their teenage daughter in a car wreck, and her organs were donated. The recipients have a tradition to come together with the family once a year to thank them.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

What does Cheney have to do with people clamoring for Obamacare?


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

he really doesn't have any desire to know anything about his donor. He considers his heart his new heart, not someone's old heart.

As much as it grates me to defend Cheney, this is not as heartless or unusual as you say.

I did see in a documentary where the parents of children who have received transplants do not think about the donor, it is their child's new organ, not someone's old one. I would assume this might be the same for adult recipients.

The problem is that parents of recipients don't want to think about someone else's loss, only their own gain. The doctor being interviewed said they don't want to think that in order for their own child to live, someone else's child had to die. So most recipients choose not to meet the donor's family after the specified time period is up or meet them once out of a sense of obligation then never get together with them again.

I think I can understand that. If in that situation, I think I would prefer to block out the idea that in order for me to live, or my son to live, someone else's son had to have his skull smashed against a windshield or fall off a roof or take his last motorcycle ride. While "generically" grateful to the donor and the family, I would choose see it as a new organ and try not to think about who it came from or why.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

"He comes across as heartless to me."

That was my point, Ann. Were I given an opportunity such as that, I could never be thankful enough! I mean, someone else cared enough about his or her fellow humans to offer their organs in donation, to help others, should something happen to them prematurely... another of those ultimate gifts that humans should be eternally grateful for!

And here we have Cheney shrugging it off as though it were nothing, expected, something he's somehow entitled to... that's how he came off in the piece I read.

It was actually sad... sad to see that so little compassion or selflessness exists in some...


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

sad to see that so little compassion or selflessness exists in some...

That's a pretty nasty little shot.

I thought I had laid out a fairly decent reasoning behind why I would feel that same way... and it has nothing to do with having no compassion or selflessness.

If I can understand and even feel the same way as Cheney on the matter, why would that make him heartless and not me?


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

We donated my sons organs. I received letters from the donor bank telling me in only a generic way of who received his donation. I have never had any desire to meet these people, and certainly would never expect any "gratitude" from them. My prayer has always been that they would use that second chance to have a good and fulfilling life. And I hope they never spend a moment thinking about my sons death.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

I can't imagine any mother, or father for that matter, not giving more than just a passing thought to a donor and the family of the donor that saved the life of their child or family member. Nor can I imagine that the recipient of a heart or other organ wouldn't give more than just a "generic" thank you for donors in general.

~Ann


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

ann, you want gratitude? Then pass it on. Sign your donor card. The next time it might be your child or grandchild. That is gratitude enough.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

I can't imagine any mother, or father for that matter, not giving more than just a passing thought to a donor and the family of the donor that saved the life of their child or family member.

I think to be more accurate, you cannot imagine you as a mother, not wanting to think about the donor or their family.

But just because that's the way you would handle it does not mean that's how everyone would.

It does not make them heartless or cruel or lacking compassion. You are mixing up Cheney the man with Cheney the organ recipient.

What makes Cheney heartless and cruel is not how he deals with having an organ transplant. What makes him heartless and cruel is how he could create a war responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths on what he knew was a lie.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

That's fine, we are both entitled to our opinions.

~Ann


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

I'm not particularly a Dick Cheney fan. I know many of you hate him, but some of you are not being fair. Here is a video of his interview with Larry King talking about his viewpoint on receiving the heart, his gratitude to the donor and to donors in general,

Here is a link that might be useful: Larry King/Dick Cheney interview


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

•Posted by ann_t 8a (My Page) on
Mon, Nov 18, 13 at 12:27

I can't imagine any mother, or father for that matter, not giving more than just a passing thought to a donor and the family of the donor that saved the life of their child or family member. Nor can I imagine that the recipient of a heart or other organ wouldn't give more than just a "generic" thank you for donors in general.
~Ann "

I can't imagine anyone cricitisizing any donor or any recipient. But, there it is.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

"I can't imagine anyone cricitisizing any donor or any recipient. But, there it is."

There it is; sadly. Maybe we're misinterpreting the attitude.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Back on the track of the OP...

Andrew Sullivan, a conservative of the UK type transplanted to the US, has been a supporter of the ACA process for rational, good conservative reasons, laid out in this blog piece:

-------------------------------------------
"I want to revisit the posts on Ponnuru’s and Levin’s critique of the Affordable Care Act �" including my citing the obvious comparisons with other Western countries. Why is socialism so damn more efficient than capitalism when it comes to healthcare? I think the answer is a relatively simple one, and it was elegantly made by a commenter on Yuval’s piece at NRO. Money quote:

'The root of “conservative” thinking on healthcare, at least as it is articulated in this space, appears not to have anything to do with centralization versus decentralization of decision making, but with dedication to the proposition that the healthcare market is just like all other markets; that a decision about healthcare follows the same logic and has the same degrees of freedom as do decisions such as whether to buy a new TV, or broccoli. Unless that catastrophically mistaken idea is abandoned, I don’t see how the local variety of “conservative” thinking can address reality and thereby improve.

The reason that the breadth of options that insurers can offer must be constrained is that if it is not constrained, then that variable, and not efficiency, is the lever that will preferentially be used as the profit generating mechanism. What that means in the real world is that the poor will be poorly insured and the rich richly insured, with the same problems of free ridership and poor long term outcomes due to avoidance of preventive care that we have now … In other words, healthcare really is a different beast in that it cannot be effectively treated as though it were a completely free market at the policy level because it can never, in fact, behave like one. That is not an ideological framing but a hard, cold fact. Healthcare is not a market like other markets and it is not even remotely anti free-market to point that out.'

That‘s what I’m grappling with. The reason for my support for the ACA is that the crisis of costs and accessibility is urgent and only Obama had the balls to propose a possible solution. The ACA, it seems to me, is a good faith attempt at integrating the existing structures of American healthcare into a better system that can expand coverage and also control costs. In that sense, once again, I think Obama is the conservative in this �" and many ideological liberals will not disagree. It may be that this conservative compromise won’t work; but a more bare bones insurance regime which does not have to include the basic needs of most lives, and skimps on preventative care, is a false economy.

There are cost control ideas embedded in the ACA. But I’d add some more conservative ingredients to the mix. I’d make co-pays a fixed percentage of the actual costs, not a flat fee, so that patients are brought closer to the actual price of what they want, and can adjust. I’d insist that all those about to get Medicare or care on the ACA exchanges also make a choice: whether to seek unlimited care at the very end of their lives or give someone else a power of attorney if they are incapacitated. Personally, I’d gladly make the choice not to survive for another few days if it would make it much more fiscally feasible for a child to get vaccinated. I consider that personally a moral imperative. But I’d still insist this remain a choice. And I’d face down the moronic denialism of “death panels”. Sane cost-controls in the most expensive time of our lives is not totalitarianism. It’s fiscal sanity and moral prudence. I’m used to facing down Sarah Palin and she knows it. I’d also be more stringent about tort reform than the ACA, though I have no illusions this is a panacea for the cost problem.

If you want a free market in healthcare, you have to let people die on the streets or in agony at home rather than seeking mandatory help in an emergency room, if they have not been able to buy insurance. Anything else is socialized medicine, which we’ve had in America since 1986. The question is simply whether we want to have the most f......-up, inefficient and inhumane socialized system on the planet or whether we have the political courage to tackle this. Decry Obama all you like, but he has tackled this. And the pile-on is a form of denial that we have a problem. But boy, do we have a problem."

Here is a link that might be useful: conservative in favor of the ACA approach


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

People in California are clamoring for health insurance.

WASHINGTON -- Despite the disastrous rollout of the federal government's healthcare website, enrollment is surging in many states as tens of thousands of consumers sign up for insurance plans made available by President Obama's health law.

A number of states that use their own systems, including California, are on track to hit enrollment targets for 2014 because of a sharp increase in November, according to state officials.

"What we are seeing is incredible momentum," said Peter Lee, director of Covered California, the nation's largest state insurance marketplace, which accounted for a third of all enrollments nationally in October. California -- which enrolled about 31,000 people in health plans last month -- nearly doubled that in the first two weeks of this month.

Several other states, including Connecticut and Kentucky, are outpacing their enrollment estimates, even as states that depend on the federal website lag far behind. In Minnesota, enrollment in the second half of October ran at triple the rate of the first half, officials said. Washington state is also on track to easily exceed its October enrollment figure, officials said.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

"...See how easy it is to identify a Conservative. Coincidence that Consistency starts with a C. So does Condescension. And Cockamamie as well as Conspiracy and Curlish..."
***************************************
Another word that starts with "C" is that pesky CONSTITUTION!


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

That is so strange. There was a poll today that said of the uninsured, only 21% had any interest in Obamacare, and of that 21% only a small percentage had even tried. Now, Medicaid is a different ballgame. Thousands of people are signing up for Medicaid. When, according to CBS only 31% of people even approve of Obamacare and the numbers seem to be dropping like a rock.

Even more...when the experts testified today that the payment portion has not even been built yet, these people can not be enrolled in a plan they can't even pay a premium for.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

So you will be delighted, mrsk, when the tide turns in the next month or so and the AHCA becomes a very popular program. Just remember, a rocky rollout doesn't mean it's a bad program - just think of Bush's Medicare Part D, which had the same bad beginnings.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Next month jz? You, Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and a few diehard liberals on this forum believe that.

Even democrats approval of Obamacare has dropped 16 pts. in the month of October.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Doesn't matter. As soon as it gains a foothold, it will be very successful (I know that will disappoint you).


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

"Doesn't matter. As soon as it gains a foothold, it will be very successful (I know that will disappoint you)."

Can you expand on what you mean that the AHCA will be "successful?"


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Figure it out, elvis.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Sounds like the hope part of Hope and Change.

What do you think will happen to the almost 100 million people who have insurance through their employment that might not meet the AHC standards by 100% next year jz?


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Mrs, only the Individual exchanges are required to meet the AHCA standards. So , unless Congress passes a law saying they too must comply, nothing will happen as regards standard compliance.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Tell that to the 5 million people who lost their health insurance this past month chase. Bet they didn't know they didn't really lose it because they were not on an exchange.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Posted by mrskjun 9 (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 21, 13 at 8:06

Sounds like the hope part of Hope and Change.

What do you think will happen to the almost 100 million people who have insurance through their employment that might not meet the AHC standards by 100% next year jz?

*

It is curious that I have not noticed any liberal even mention about the millions and millions more who are going to lose their policies next year.

Ah, Miss Scarlett, no need to furrow your brow, tomorrow is another day!~

*

I had dinner with a business associate last night.
He said, "If you haven't met anyone adversely affected by Obamacare yet (I have) you're looking at him. His deductible on his health insurance policy is $7,500.

That has stayed the same.

His premium was twenty dollars short of doubling.

Gotta pay for those video buying 400 pound people, and he had better stay on the road working 12 hour days to do that!

I received my notice I could keep mine for now (one of the few GF'd) but then a week later got the increase.

Can't wait to see what next year brings!

As the little children were taught to sing to their leader:

"Barrack Hussein Obama MMMM MMMMM MMMMM"


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Mrs, the people that lost their insurance as a result of the standards were all on the Individual Exchanges.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

I misspoke the correct term is Individual Market....not Individual Exchange. However the fact remains it is not employer plans.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

chase, it doesn't matter if it's employer or private. All insurance has to meet the requirements of the ACA. Many don't. Example..fast food franchises offer a bare minimum policy, cancelled. Maybe the policy doesn't offer pediatric dental care, cancelled. Why in the world do you think Obama delayed the employer mandate for a year. He already knew what was going to happen to the private market. It's a train wreck. If employer mandates had kicked in at the same time, it would be a nuclear disaster, and probably still will be.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Demi, that's a heck of a way to describe the folks whose rights not to buy insurance, or only catastrophic insurance, you've so vehemently defended in other threads. Are they "400 pound video-buying people" (whatever those are), or are they FREE Americans whose insurance decisions (I quote) are NONE OF OUR BUSINESS?

People like my cousin, who purchased an affordable policy for $300 or so a month from Aetna, a reputable nationwide insurer. Her husband is now declaring bankruptcy after her death from breast cancer, because Aetna used slippery loopholes to refuse to cover a vast portion of her radiation and chemotherapy. (Apparently when breast cancer metastasizes to a brain tumor, it's not the same illness and won't be covered. Cancer spreads: who knew?)

Your buddy is now paying for that bankruptcy, as have the rest of us taxpayers and consumers with "normal expensive" policies been doing for years.

[PS: Some kind of song -- is that where you get the strange "MM MM MMMM" you're always saying after writing out the President's full name? Source? I could never figure out whether it was an unhumorous parody of black English or a Campbell's soup commercial, or just some inexplicable Southern thing.]


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Posted by circuspeanut coastal 5 (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 21, 13 at 8:57

Demi, that's a heck of a way to describe the folks whose rights not to buy insurance, or only catastrophic insurance, you've so vehemently defended in other threads. Are they "400 pound video-buying people" (whatever those are), or are they FREE Americans whose insurance decisions (I quote) are NONE OF OUR BUSINESS?

*

It is now MY BUSINESS because I am having to supplement them, in addiction to Medicaid recipients.

It is NONE of my business if they want to weigh 400 pounds.
I should not have to subsidize that.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Posted by circuspeanut coastal 5 (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 21, 13 at 8:57

[PS: Some kind of song -- is that where you get the strange "MM MM MMMM" you're always saying after writing out the President's full name? Source? I could never figure out whether it was an unhumorous parody of black English or a Campbell's soup commercial, or just some inexplicable Southern thing.]

NO, it is not a parody of black ENGLISH.

IT IS NOT A Campbell's soup commercial.

It is not "just some inexplicable SOUTHERN THING."

Did you not read my post?

"As the little children were taught to sing to their leader"

I suggest you visit YouTube and type in Barack Hussein Obama MMm Mmm Mmm schoolchildren and watch the video.

It is school children singing a song to their "leader" that their teacher taught them.

It was all over the news when Obama was elected.

Shades of Soviet Union.

I can't believe you missed that.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

I don't have a tv, Demi, and don't watch any network news coverage online, either -- I miss out on all those special partisan reports, I guess. Never seen Saul Alinksy's literary oeuvre or Obama's gay secrets covered, either. :)


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Chase, Employer plans are next. Prepare yourself.

"[PS: Some kind of song -- is that where you get the strange "MM MM MMMM" you're always saying after writing out the President's full name? Source? I could never figure out whether it was an unhumorous parody of black English or a Campbell's soup commercial, or just some inexplicable Southern thing.]"

It is none of those, CP. It is propaganda that badly misfired. Had you googled it for yourself before you commented, you would have known that.

Here is a link that might be useful: mmmm mmmmm mmmm!


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

"As lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are endorsing legislation to allow Americans purchasing health care coverage in the individual market to stay in their existing insurance plans, they’re ignoring a far more pressing coverage problem in the 26 states that have yet to expand their Medicaid programs. There, five million working poor Americans could be denied access to affordable insurance altogether.

The stories of private market enrollees being forced to purchase more substantive insurance have animated politics for the last three weeks. But the failure of 25 states to expand Medicaid coverage to 133 percent of the federal poverty line, as envisioned by reform, is actually far more disastrous and undermines the promise of health care for the millions who earn “too much to qualify for Medicaid but not enough to qualify for Marketplace premium tax credits.”

Relying on analysis form the Kaiser Family Foundation, ThinkProgress compared the numbers of lower-income Americans who are denied coverage by GOP-controlled legislatures or governors to the public estimates of residents receiving cancellation notices in those states’ individual markets. Though the public debate has focused on the loss of individual private plans, the working poor are far more likely to go without insurance:

(Check link below for pictures and graphs that go here.)

"The problem plaguing recipients of cancellation notices is even less severe than the graphic above would suggest. Nationally, approximately 15 million people are purchasing individual plans, but just 5 million remain in those plans for a year or more -- the majority switch to more comprehensive insurance.

Some percentage of these five million enrollees will be able to stay in their cancelled policies for longer, as state insurance commissioners and insurers adopt the Obama administration’s new flexibility rule, allowing existing plans to continue offering coverage for at least a year. But even the millions who do have to enroll in new policies in 2014 will do so with the aid of a tax credit and will pay less or a comparable price for more comprehensive coverage. Approximately 48 percent “of people now buying their own insurance would be eligible for a tax credit that would offset their premium,” Kaiser estimates. More than one million “will be eligible for Medicaid starting in 2014.” That leaves 2.1 million to 2.4 million Americans who are too wealthy to qualify for assistance and will have to pay more for insurance under the new system.

Compare that to the 5 million Americans who fall into the coverage gap. They are the working poor cashiers, cooks, nurses’ aides, waiters and waitresses who were intended to benefit the most under reform, yet will continue to struggle to afford coverage as a result of the GOP’s political calculations. “Blacks are disproportionately affected,” the New York Times recently reported, “largely because more of them are poor and living in Southern states. In all, 6 out of 10 blacks live in the states not expanding Medicaid.”

Yet the very same Republican lawmakers and conservative advocacy groups who have seized on the cancellation notices to argue that the law has failed are actively campaigning to prevent states from expanding public health insurance to these people. They claim that expansion would cost states millions, even though the federal government will pick up nearly all of the costs of coverage (100 percent for the first three years, phasing down to 90 percent in 2020 and all subsequent years), paying nearly 93 percent the cost over the next nine years, according to the Congressional Budget Office."

Here is a link that might be useful: The Real Victims


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

AT the link is an article about how the GOP will try and spend the next year or so attacking Obamcare - all the talking points lined up, the stratergy to use, etc.

it seems to me that all the Democrats have to do is point out the millions of working poor that were denied health coverage by the refusal of Republicans to expand Medicaid. Or ask, once again, just what the Republicans propose to replace Obamacare?

From the comments section:

"There is something incredibly unseemly about an entire political party spending such an enormous number of their waking hours working assiduously to overturn 3 year old legislation that was passed by a majority, affirmed by the Supreme Court and reaffirmed by a majority of Americans who re-elected the man behind it. What's that war expression about burning everything down so that nothing can live? Same thing.

There's also something incredibly unseemly about our elected officials trawling for horror stories, a sense of immense schadenfreud, almost unrestrained glee that people are experiencing frustration or increased premiums or cancellation, the more the better. I have never seen such an uncaring lot. Where is the temperance, a sense of judiciousness, restraint? Where is the positive counter-proposal, what are they doing to make things better?"

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

david, is this supposed to be something new? Republicans have been against Obamacare from day one. Remember the government shutdown to try to force Obama to delay the individual mandate for one year? hmmm think the Republicans were on to something? Remember when Enzi put forth a bill in 2010 that said people could keep their insurance if they liked it and every democrat voted against the bill? Remember when Nancy Pelosi said , you need to pass the bill to find out what is in it? Well, they did, now we have, and the republicans have been right all along.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Well, having the actual documentation on how the orchestrated campaign is supposed to unroll over the next year is whats news.

Which kinda puts a hole in the idea that this is some spontaneous, grass-roots opposition to citizens getting health insurance.

But hey, you keep repeating all these orchestrated talking points pretending they're your original ideas, and we'll pretend not to notice.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

What is the orchestrated campaign david? That Obamacare is an utter failure? Did republicans write the bill? Did they vote for it? Did they design the website? Did they throw people off of their health care policies? Did they try to pass a bill that would allow people to keep their policies, their drs. their hospitals? Did they try to extend the individual mandate for a year? The only orchestration that I see has been done by democrats and it's biting them in the butt.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

~snort~ . Time to start up another 4 threads, no? You can just copy and paste your talking points again and again and again.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

And why shouldn't I speak the truth. You act as if this isn't what we have been saying for the last three years. Ever since Nancy Pelosi spoke those infamous words.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Well, as I said earlier, openly prohibiting millions of low-wage working poor the chance to get health insurance via refusal to expand Medicaid is just a wonderful way to win elections. With the bonus side effect of further straining public hospitals and shifting more and more of the burden of treating the uninsured onto those paying the premiums.

All the while, the continuous loop of the same lame talking points again and again.

Hey, go for it.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Nope, Nik - what comes up when googling 'mmm mmm' is either Homer Simpson and his donuts or Crash Test Dummy lyrics. I'm not privy to the subtext, wink-wink discourse of the far right, so thanks for explaining!

it seems to me that all the Democrats have to do is point out the millions of working poor that were denied health coverage by the refusal of Republicans to expand Medicaid. Or ask, once again, just what the Republicans propose to replace Obamacare?

And the answers on this forum appear to be 1) who cares about "400-pound video buyers", and 2) nothing. It will drive you to distraction.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

The only orchestration that I see has been done by democrats and it's biting them in the butt.

*

Oh and every note is off!~

Scramble scramble I'll proclaim by executive order the insurance companies can sell the old policies already canceled but only for a year--oops, now some states have amended their laws and that would be illegal--oops, insurance companies have already adjusted their businesses to the tune of millions of dollars based on the LAW of Obamacare and now the premiums won't be accurate and they may go under.

Oops, the President does not have the constitutional right to just change laws willy nilly when he doesn't like parts of them.

STill don't have my question as to "by what authority" but hey he's Barack Hussein Obama he can do whatever he wants to do MMM MMM MMM.

All those people just clamoring to sign up for Obamacare vs. the people adversely affected.

Do the math, Barry.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Well, that was coherent.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

"Well, that was coherent."

I think that's the point.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Seeming a tad frenetic.....

I answered this question earlier., twice actually but apparently I was not very clear.

The Executive Branch is accountable for the actual implementation of laws and as such has the authority to alter implementation dates based on details that come to light during the implementation process.

They do not have the authority to change anything related to the specific policy of any legislation.

That is why he only extended the date for standards compliance by one year and that is why Mary Landrieu is looking to eliminate the compliance clause for Individual policies altogether

The Executive Branch can changes dates but only Congress can change policy.

The President changed the implementation date of the "standards clause"....well within his authority. The law being proposed in the Senate would eliminate the requirement from the legislation entirely.

Two different things. and an example of each Branch doing what is in their realm to do.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

No, it's not and constitutional scholars are asking the same question I am, Chase.

Are you a constitutional scholar?

Barack Obama has claimed to "teach" the Constitution for years and yet he steps on it, figuratively.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

"...what comes up when googling 'mmm mmm' is either Homer Simpson and his donuts or Crash Test Dummy lyrics."

Poor choice of key words If you want to know how the mmm mmm mmm relates to "his full name" you need to mention it. . "Obama mmm" will do it. Lyrics below, just for you.

"it seems to me that all the Democrats have to do is point out the millions of working poor that were denied health coverage by the refusal of Republicans to expand Medicaid."

Brilliant! Democrats wrote the law and Republicans are complying with it. Republican governors don't work for the president. They work for their constituents.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lyrics


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

An insurance guy is down stairs right now helping wife with her supplemental. He has some stories to tell, they sure aren't pro Obama plans!!


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

One just needs to do some homework to get answers. ....I did and there was the answer..

I'm not a constitutional scholar, I'm just curious and able to sift through all sorts of material to come up with a informed position.

Even without doing homework....one basic question and the answer is so obvious.

If the President does not have the authority to change the implementation dates then why is no one (except some internet based constitutional scholars) in Congress challenging him?

.I don't mean complaining, I mean challenging him? Same goes for the delay of the employee mandate date...no challenge.

This is not a Republican House that gives the President a pass...but no challenge...guess they are just being nice guys. Maybe someone should put them in touch with those constitutional scholars.....


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

chase, do you really not know why?


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Yes Mrs..I do know why they aren't challenging the Executive Branch decision in the change of implementations dates......it's because the Executive Branch has the authority to do so.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

This is pretty sad state of affairs when a Canadian is more knowledgeable about the ACA and respective roles of Executive and Legislative Branches than American-born commentators here on HT. The blogosphere is filled with hacks spinning and spinning and deflecting and inflating on these subjects. We are sure to read the contents of such crap here on HT soon enough. More SOB materials.

I am getting royally pee-peeeddddd!


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Yes Mrs..I do know why they aren't challenging the Executive Branch decision in the change of implementations dates......it's because the Executive Branch has the authority to do so.

I think time will tell a different story chase.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Barack Obama's "fix" is not just delay of a law--it requires insurance companies to take certain actions in order to effect the delay.

Therefore the delay is not just a delay--it is a different mandate, and therefore a different law.

Indeed, the fix goes far beyond “non-enforcement” because it requires insurers to certain new action to enjoy the delay. This is thus not simply a delay, but a new law.

This means Obama's fix is new legislation, which he cannot enact without Congress.

*

But Marshall, I know Chase gets here information from the internet so it must be true.

My point is there is a very good argument that Barack Obama's actions or "fix" is unconstitutional and will not hold in up court.

Not that anyone will question The Chosen One.

This post was edited by demifloyd on Fri, Nov 22, 13 at 9:52


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

There's also something incredibly unseemly about our elected officials trawling for horror stories, a sense of immense schadenfreud, almost unrestrained glee that people are experiencing frustration or increased premiums or cancellation, the more the better

And we see that here too. The unrestrained glee of conservatives here is sickening. Nik and Demi are leading that charge and as all can see from the posts after David's on this thread they continue to get more and more hysterical.

You know if you've pissed off Marshall you've probably gone too far. Or you should know.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrowl


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

I'm still trying to figure out the president's quote from the OP:

"All those people who were waiting for the ones we've been waiting for."

It sounds for all the world like something Pelosi would say!


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Raise your hand if you are against insurance companies denying coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

Now tell me how you are going to convince the insurance companies to go along with that.

Answer = Obamacare


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

  • Posted by rosie NE Georgia 7A/B (My Page) on
    Fri, Nov 22, 13 at 6:56

Y (hand raised, victory sign).

You know, if I immersed myself in sources that told me my country was on the point of destroyed anew every month or so, I'd be sucking my thumb in a corner. If not much else can be said for the behavior of those who are hoping to be proved right at any cost, at least our disloyal opposition is...resilient?


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Obsessive-compulsive, perhaps, with flavorings of paranoia and persecution complex


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Insulting posters, taunting posters, speculating about poster's lives and mindsets is always a sure sign you got nuthin.

It should be beneath the dignity of many of you but these days I guess since Obama's crown is falling off his head everyday someone scrambles to shove it back on all bets are off on keeping the conversations to the topic.

Name calling and suggesting thumb sucking and paranoia
are childish things to say and a nasty practice for anyone, much less senior citizens.

Maybe it's true what they say about reverting back to infancy.

And terriks, if "Obamacare" was only a few fixes to regulate costs and prevent companies from taking advantage of people by denying them coverage they should have, and in insuring no presexisting conditions would prevent one from being covered, I'd be all for it.

But Obamacare is 2500 pages and a takeover of 1/6 of our economy.

It is unmitigated, colossal train wreck of incompetence which has inconvenienced and hurt many people--many more than it has helped.

This legislation was not about eliminating preexisting conditions.

This legislation as about taking over our lives and choices, and most of all, redistributing wealth and making people dependent on the government. All of us.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

I suggest that it is imprudent to deliberately taunt me.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Mrs, if it is unconstitutional for the President to change implementation dates for legislation the Administration is mandated to implement, then why is the House so strong in it's continued request of the President to delay the personal mandate?

Would they knowingly ask the President to do something they thought was unconstitutional?


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

I wouldn't be surprised. Bear baiting (or Barack baiting in this case).

But what do I know? I am too childish to attend this forum.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Ditto to above posts.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

chase, really? They aren't challenging it because they already know what is going to happen. Dems were determined not to pass Enzi's bill to put off the individual mandate right? Obama knew what was going to happen, so he lied. The same thing is going to happen when the employer mandate goes into place. Millions will be losing their health insurance...anywhere from 43 million to 90 million. It was the dems plan all along. Force people with private plans or employer plans into the exchanges. Make sure the middle class and young people foot the bill. Republicans tried to stop this train wreck. Not much they can do but watch it to the end. Don't fight the constitutionality of what he's doing. Allow the American people to judge. According to the latest CBS poll, approval of Obamacare is now at 31% and disapproval is 61%. And Obama's approval is 37%.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Now demi is a dittohead? or was that meant to admitting to being childish (as I did and am at times at times.) I earned the right!

Otherwise....

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

  • Posted by rosie NE Georgia 7A/B (My Page) on
    Fri, Nov 22, 13 at 10:13

Well, I disagree Demifloyd. To put it mildly. You know, we're not exactly breaking new ground here. All other wealthy and advanced nations, and many not so wealthy, have had national health insurance for decades. Ours is currently a very modest, limited version, but, for all the unseemly noise, it will be a blessing for this country.

As a presumably educated person, Demifloyd, you must know that the Medical Revolution is as profound a change in the course of human events as the Iron Age or the Agricultural Revolution. I simply don't understand how an educated person could fail to understand that trying to hold it at bay isn't even an option, any more than those who refused to till land could stop the move from hunting and gathering to farming.

Those who foolishly resisted securing the benefits of the Medical Revolution for all people of our country have managed to delay it -- and are responsible for the unnecessary ruin, misery and early deaths of many -- but healthcare reform has finally happened simply because it was always going to. The ability to heal provided the need to bring it to the patient. There will be more reform in future.

After all, what greater freedom can a people give itself than life itself?

As for silly arguments about a WHOLE 2600 pages! (I probably read that much just for enjoyment each month), vague threats of freedom destroyed by securing the blessings of healthy vigorous bodies to a free people, and that the GOP had nothing to do with the deficiencies of the ACA, those are meant for people who might as well be illiterate.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Rosie, perhaps you have not read my many posts in the past about wanting everyone to have affordable health care insurance, and that taxpayers should supplement those that are unable to care for themselves.

Obamacare is far too reaching, complicated, and burdensome in my opinion.

I am a "presumably educated person" that feels this way.

I am not failing to understand anything.

It seems to me perhaps you are failing to understand that there are those of us who think that the health care problem can be solved or at least addressed in a less obtrusive and more efficient and competent manner than Obamacare.

Disagreeing with Obamacare as it is is my prerogative and in no shape, form, or fashion a rejection of health care reform.

I think it will be the nail in the coffin in more ways than one for not only some citizens, but this country.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Our mistakes include setting up systems to insure business profits before human health and wellness; the insured businesses being protected from risk and other unforeseen inroads on profits.

A Single Payer System must be in our future


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Mrs, prior to the bill that recently passed the House, the GOP were clamoring to have the President delay the individual mandate.

Why were they asking the President to do something they believed to be unconstitutional?


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

"Obsessive-compulsive, perhaps, with flavorings of paranoia and persecution complex"

Indeed, that nicely encapsulates the desperation of trying to somehow preserve a putrefying corpse.

FTA: "The Obama administration plans to delay the start of next year's ObamaCare enrollment period, a move pitched as a way to give consumers and insurance companies more time to study their options -- but which also conveniently pushes the second round of enrollment past the 2014 midterm elections."

Works for me. The problem is the stench. One whiff of obamacare set the private market gagging from coast to coast.

The middle class, especially those losing employer insurance next year, won't be distracted from obamacare's ever ripening stench with rhetoric. Nobody in their right mind believes "repackaging" or "rebranding" a rotting corpse can contain gag-inducing fumes. You can have the IQ of a doorknob, and still know instinctively to stay away.

Here is a link that might be useful: White House dictates new law


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Mrs, prior to the bill that recently passed the House, the GOP were clamoring to have the President delay the individual mandate.

Why were they asking the President to do something they believed to be unconstitutional?


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

chase, do you just not get it? I don't care whether it is constitutional or not. I don't think most republicans care except to consider it as far as the legality. Which it may or may not be. Why take any attention away from this disaster that's rolling down the pike with ancillary criticisms regarding Obama's dipping and dodging and flailing for a life ring. Let er roll.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Let er roll indeed.

Obama and the Democrats OWN what is happening.

Totally 100%.

Deflections are akin to hand flapping at this juncture.

The Obamacare Train has left the station and is already off the tracks.

As a former poster used to say, "It ain't pretty."

This post was edited by demifloyd on Fri, Nov 22, 13 at 11:00


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

•Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Fri, Nov 22, 13 at 10:43

"Our mistakes include setting up systems to insure business profits before human health and wellness; the insured businesses being protected from risk and other unforeseen inroads on profits.
A Single Payer System must be in our future"

May be, marshall. But the AHCA isn't it. Is it?


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

The AJCA is not yet a single payer system, but it is the one of the steps toward achieving single payer: medicare for all.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

  • Posted by rosie NE Georgia 7A/B (My Page) on
    Fri, Nov 22, 13 at 11:44

Demifloyd, I have missed your past posts. But how could I know you support healthcare reform from your present ones? "2600 pages"? After all. :)

TWENTY YEARS AGO now the GOP offered its own plan as an alternative to Clintoncare, and the very day it was known they'd eroded critical support for the Democratic bill and it was dead, their plan disappeared. Literally taken down from the website that very day. I looked.

OVER 17 YEARS. That's how long it took for the healthcare cycle to advance to where Democrats had a second chance to pass healthcare reform -- against everything the GOP had done for 17 years to stop it.

So, here we are now, 20 YEARS LATER, finally about to implement the main body of the ACA, which is modeled on a plan developed by the conservative Heritage Foundation AND which contains over 200 GOP amendments -- most not intended to make it work better, BTW.

Given those realities, as you do wish affordable healthcare for all, are you sure you support repealing or "delaying" (THAT's a good one) the ACA instead of working out its problems over time?


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

"Why were they asking the President to do something they believed to be unconstitutional?"

Chase, What do you think they were asking him to do?

Let me give you a hint. They were NOT asking him to dictate how the law will read. They had something else in mind. You'll need to do some homework on our three branches of government, why they are so important to our Constitution, and the role of each branch under our system. Only when you understand the separation of powers will you be prepared to understand they were NOT asking him to act outside the law, as your question assumes.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

•Posted by pidge z6PA (My Page) on Fri, Nov 22, 13 at 11:34

"The AJCA is not yet a single payer system, but it is the one of the steps toward achieving single payer: medicare for all."

Who's buying? You?

Your treat?


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Posted by rosie NE Georgia 7A/B (My Page) on
Fri, Nov 22, 13 at 11:44

Demifloyd, I have missed your past posts. But how could I know you support healthcare reform from your present ones? "2600 pages"? After all. :)

*

Rosie, if you think about it, supporting healthcare reform and supporting Obamacare are two different things.

Because I vehemently oppose most of Obamacare for many reasons does not equate to my not supporting health care reform.

Obama supporters sometimes seem to be quick to assume nefarious motives to those that do not blindly follow him and his ideas.

Back up and think about it--it's a difference of an opinion.

Not supporting Obamacare does not equate to not supporting health care reform.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

And someone will come back with that perennial and tiresome question about a Republican alternative health care plan for all eligible citizens and other legal residents.

And let the hand flapping and finger pointing begin anew.

I remind some here that Federal health care programs have been proposed by the Truman administration, the Nixon Administration, the Clinton Administration, the Bush Administration (Medicare part D/pharmaceuticals), and now Obama Administration.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Just caught this question at the end of your post, Rosie, and I will address it:

"Given those realities, as you do wish affordable healthcare for all, are you sure you support repealing or "delaying" (THAT's a good one) the ACA instead of working out its problems over time?"

I don't have to be asked if I support repealing or "delaying" or working out Obamacare.

It is too complicated and I think the entire thing should be scrapped, the best of it saved like preventing insurance companies from denying coverage for preexisting conditions (although I think people should be charged more in some instances), denying coverage over clerical mistakes, making basic health care insurance affordable to all and available to those that cannot work because of physical or mental limitations, and none of it put into play until something is done to rein in costs.

That's above my pay grade to totally solve that problem, but more competition and less regulation in some areas may address that.

In any event, yes I think Obamacare should be scrapped and as mrskjun suggested, tackle the issues that require our attention first, most likely one at a time, while preserving freedom for those that neither want nor need government interference in their health care matters.


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Obamacare is more than just the exchanges. It requires real improvements to all insurance for all Americans ... not just those without insurance.

Whether you need health coverage or have it already, the health care law offers new rights and protections that make coverage fairer and easier to understand.

Some rights and protections apply to plans in the Health Insurance Marketplace or other individual insurance, some apply to job-based plans, and some apply to all health coverage.

These rights and protections provide even more choice and control over your health coverage when key parts of the law take effect in 2014.

Use this guide to learn about your rights and protections today and in 2014.

But then you knew that, I hope.

Here is a link that might be useful: Read the specifics here


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Tackling one issue at a time...hmmm...what could go wrong with that, given the House's current record of legislative "progress" and the tedium of ever unending subcommittee hearings and special special subcommittees called to study on issues. And unending and growing campaign coffers in support of sound government planning in the health insurance field. Yeah!


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

  • Posted by rosie NE Georgia 7A/B (My Page) on
    Fri, Nov 22, 13 at 13:07

LOL. What on earth could go wrong with that? Aside from delay for another generation of course while we get it "right." Well, happily, that's no more than wishful thinking on the part of some.

Demi, I just can't agree that the ACA is not healthcare reform, to the point that I can't understand how anyone could arrive at that thought.

Next year the very large numbers of Americans who would have lost their homes, would have lost their ability to work and take care of themselves, and would even have lost their lives for lack of insurance drops precipitously. It's happening. Finally.

The rest? The next step. And just try to stop it when the voters left out realize just what everyone else has that they don't.

This post was edited by rosie on Fri, Nov 22, 13 at 14:31


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RE: People Clamoring for Obamacare

Good thread, demi; thank you.


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