Elvis..what a load of crap, they don't feel pain. Every living organism feels pain. Each koi I have has a different personality. I have some goldfish too, and one was sick last year and another one didn't leave it's side pushing it along. I watched the six miniscule babies grow from a speck to five inches long this summer and predicted the one with the bright yellow head was the ring leader. He watched the big koi eat out of my hand, and then would swim up between the big ones and grab some.

Yes, come forward lurkers - we won't bite.

Kate

That said, reading here is a sure fire way of curing any low blood pressure I might have!

What great looking fish!

How would you like to be caught with a large hook through your jaw and lip, then struggle to get away while another species made a game of the fight, which to you was a fight for your life? Catch the damn thing, reel it in, and put it out of its misery if you're going to eat it. Or let it go.

Yes, I hunt and fish... but it's not a sport or a game. It's a way of putting food on my table. It's not the hunt I enjoy... it's the meat... taken with respect and gratitude.

No offense to any anglers out there. We have to eat, after all... and humankind was meant to consume plant and animal matter. I, personally, just don't care to make a game out of it.

That IS a nice fish, though, David... and it would make a nice meal.

Back to the OP... I don't think of the word "lurker" in a negative context when it comes to message boards. A lot of people read, are interested in the opinions of others, but simply don't wish to become involved in the conversation. There's nothing wrong with that. If they didn't post every once in a while, you wouldn't even know they were there, lurking in cyberspace, reading, perhaps enjoying the banter or learning from the information.

Judging by some of the conversation here at HT, do you really blame people for lurking instead of involving themselves? I surely don't. On the other hand, it's nice to have people join in an offer a new or different perspective.

After realizing I was losing sleep over things, it wasn't worth it! I also didn't like the fact that nearly every post descended into name calling and insults, with very little opportunity to learn and debate, which is what I am more interested in.

Now my life is busy with a very busy job, and I mostly lurk. I imagine I'll come back in time, maybe after election results are in things will cool off. I'll have to find myself a "sponsor" who can keep me sane when I do ;)

fusa, I hope you decide to rejoin the fray after the election; your insights into social services are always welcomed by me.

Thanks for posting Mragle and fusa.

~Ann

;)

I know you didn't mean to leave her out, I just know her and she's a special kinda person.

Thanks for posting Mragle and Fusa, maybe after today we can talk about other things before the 2016 brawls start :)

Just got back from voting. Go Ohio!

~Ann

Kate

campanula, I enjoy your comments since they reassure me that my leftist views are shared by someone else.

I have to laugh , one regular stated on this thread, 'we don't bite'. Yet already in this post someone calls another's opinion a load of crap. That would be a big part of why I'm a lurker. I don't enjoy name-calling & it's popular here. I've gotten enough flak on other forums here. I also strongly believe that when one resorts to name-calling/personal insults, their argument is generally weak & that's all they have is nasty words. Back up your stance with facts not crude rhetoric. There are some pretty crude folks here, on both sides.

Now if someone wants to star a thread on pitt bulls/ bully breed dogs, I'm all in.

I'm not going to call out obnoxious posters, as I don't want to join in the snippiness. But I will admit that I have a big crush on David from Colorado - he is a voice of intelligent reason and he seems to find the best news sources.

Kate

Get in line with the rest of his admirers, of which I'm one.

I'm such an easily distracted female.

But c'mon y'all! David, Don, Joe, Bill... they're all just like my brothers. A crush?! I'm teasing. I do respect them as I do my brothers, but I'm teasing about y'all.

Welcome all new posters! I'm fairly new myself.

I also did not take 'lurker' as a negative comment at all.

Ditto. :)

(Can't resist a man in manties)

of this I'm quite sure: the invitation to speak up in this thread was pure, with no spite whatsoever. I'm glad that so many have thus far and hope many more will - I'd love THIS thread to be one which reaches 150 responses, with most coming from those who have rarely if ever responded in this forum.

I can recall, long ago when internet chat forums were gaining momentum, that "lurker" actually did come with bad connotations - I think it was much like the term "troll" is used today. I am not sure that applies at all anymore.
However, I visit to chat in only two sites total on the entire internet, so what do I know? :)

Campanula, when I first began to participate in Hot Topics it seems to me that you were a fairly frequent poster, I really did enjoy your input although you tended a bit more to the left than I myself can lean. This was almost four years ago, so my memory might not be correct, but your name is so familiar that you must have had a big impression on me at that time, as a newbie.
I wish you (and all lurkers who read quietly) would reconsider and participate, no matter how you believe. The more people who participate, the greater the input and the better the ideas that are generated. More people make for a far healthier forum, I really believe this to be true.

I especially value the few who participate who are not citizens of the United States, I wish we had FAR more than we do, despite the poor behavior to them from some Americans in this forum, when those of other countries do speak up - I think those outside this country provide a very good mirror for us to look into -and perhaps acknowledge - to see ourselves as others see is.

In this world, that is incredibly important.

This is a forum open to the entire world of peoople, it is not a United States Hot Topics forum.

Thanks to all those who chose to speak up.

A few decades ago it was still totally accepted by medical personnel who should have known better that newborns didn't feel pain when circumcised. Why? Because circumcision was so prevalent, it only took a minute and it was preferable to simply decide that the infant's nerve endings were still so undeveloped and therefore couldn't feel pain (no way of filing a complaint, either) so really, since they didn't feel pain, there was no reason to go to the time, trouble and expense of numbing the area. And, it also made the new mothers feel better. Why the screaming from the infant? I was told that babies cried when something cold touched them, like the instrument, or because they were uncovered etc.etc. It was their way of complaining that they were cold.

We all know that old story isn't true any longer. I think that so often, humans will believe what is easier to believe than coping with what is true based upon scientific or provable facts.

I know that all animals, fish, etc. feel pain. I don't necessarily go along with the idea that plants feel pain but then there is no scientifically legit. way that I know of to know or measure such a thing in a plant. Someday there might be and someday we might find that to also be true.

I eat meat and fish, I understand and accept that, as I eat that meat and fish, some animal has suffered and died in order for me to eat that meat and fish. I don't like it at all, but it's part of my life as I live it and the life of a vast majority of human beings.

Perhaps there will come a time when it will no longer be felt necessary for us to eat meat and fish - or it will be possible to do so without causing pain.

I would second ohiomom's opinion of our Marshall. I could go on and on about the other male forum members, by FAR most of whom I honestly like - but enough is enough! :)

Again, thanks for all those lurkers for answering this thread, especially a big thanks for all those who were uncomfortable in doing so. You added real value to the forum with your contribution.

That is true, carol. Welcome!

Lisa

Hi Lisa.

There seems to be a common thread amongst the lurkers. Forum infighting is not appreciated and keeps them away.

HI!

Please keep coming on and posting. It's midnight here and we want to stay up late to see the action, but it looks like we'll have to go to sleep and wake up to results. Pins and needles, but we're 8 hours different from Chicago. Big big news coverage here, looks like an all-nighter.
Thanks for posting this don. Very interesting.........

Think of it as finding and relying only on those sources, etc. that bolster one's ideological bent. Or the bent borrowed from somewhere else because coming up with one's own is just too difficult. We've become artful in our "yes, I understand your point; I value your input; you've spun something beyond Whirling Dervishland, but it's got me thinking..." All the while thinking what a maroon. Human nature.

I enjoy the more standing off than not and am often willing to let the dominant forum personalities have at it; I learn things until the squabbling starts. I have opinions, lots of them. But sometimes they would only serve to add to the redundancy as someone mentioned upthread.

I've posted here a few times, but I mostly lurk, only because the vast majority of the time, my post (and my opinion) would be redundant.

I have learned quite a bit from reading the posts, and while I am still liberal, I enjoy reading what my conservative brethern have to say. I think there are some very thoughtful, intelligent posters here.

(And Marshall, David and Bill always have my attention , and now Campanula :))

I applaud the lurkers for sticking with HT and picking up the good and rejecting the not-so-good contributions. I'm very glad to read their comments, often well-reasoned based on prior knowledge of threads and active posters. Thanks, Don, for starting the thread. And thanks for the kind words from my fan club. The feelings are mutual and I would include in my pantheon of HT'ers labrea, demi, mrskjun, mylab, kate, nancy/Venice, esh, ohiomom (when these folks are not bickering.) There are others I also respect and admire from time to time. So no hurt feelings if I've left on your name. David, vgkg, Don and I go back a long way.

I do enjoy hearing different points of view, and sometimes I've found myself swayed by strong arguments, but I don't see a lot of evidence that most active posters are able to do the same.

On the rare occasions that I have posted, I found myself getting too worked up by the process (and from what I can tell, very few contributors REALLY listens to anyone else anyway, unless they're already in agreement).

It's not just HT; I've actually stopped posting much to any of the other forums at GW as well. I've had folks try to pick fights with me in other forums. A "few" years back some guy on the Tree forum just wouldn't believe that I could grow Western Redbuds from seed. He basically called me a liar... Another poster on the Orchid forum told me that my Western Ladies-tresses couldn't possibly be producing seed and spreading unchecked throughout my garden. He had been trying to propagate the species for years and hadn't had any success. When I posted pictures of the various locations that the orchids were popping up on our property, he insisted that there must be roots somehow connecting the various plants (even though some of the plants were many yards from the parent plant)...

I'm not going to divulge the names of any posters that I may or may not care for as Don has requested; let's just say that I often skip the posts of a half a dozen or so contributors (and they're not all from the same side of the aisle)...

Pretty much sums up my experience, except that I don't get worked up about what strangers say. All the vituperation just isn't my cup of tea. I stop by from time to time because some of you do provide interesting links.

Lloyd

Best wishes
Jon

When I first began posting here, I felt like the resident "conspiracy theorist", but to my surprise, found I'm not the most left leaning person there is.

If I knew more about the local types of politics involved in other countries, such as Great Britain, I'd probably be delighted by the forums you describe... perhaps as a lurker, even. ;-)

But all in all, I find that lurkers are a normal part of the internet, whether in social website arenas, message boards, or anywhere, for that matter. It's simply up to each of us whether we want to share in such things... and how much of ourselves we want to share.

There are too many people here that I like or admire in different ways to name them all, and I wouldn't want to forget any... I think most know who they are. There's a faction that I simply can't understand, and a few that I wouldn't care to have a discussion with that I couldn't walk away from or ignore, as one can do here. Whether known or unknown, intentional or not, everyone who posts leaves at least a little bit of their truth showing, rather like a slip peeking out from under a hem.

Personally, it's never bothered me what others think of me; I simply am who I am... brutally honest and abrasive, sarcastic and real, opinionated but not above learning, human and flawed, not always right, etc.

It's good to have some of the unknowns make themselves known... if only for a brief moment. Welcome, lurkers... don't be such strangers. :-)

Jumped in at Home Dec in 2008. Found the forum when googling about a vexing decor problem, & have been posting & getting to know people there ever since.

How did I know about this forum? Let's just say HT's reputation precedes it. (I'm delighted to report that many of the nasty rumors are simply false!).

Do feel free to jump into the thick of things occasionally. Would love to hear your perspectives.

If HT posters want to see some gorgeous roses, do look up pics by Jon of Wessex and Campanula on the Rose Gallery!

Kate

Hey, can I show you some nice pictures?

Hay

Kate

Thanks for posting, Some have been here on and off but great o have in the mix.
Some of you may know me through my better half or at least know her. Here is a picture
that might be familiar of one of our cecile brunner rose bowers and a link to her other
pictures.

Don--socal-----I recognized Missy's picture right away--I remember when she described the building of the frame----please tell her Zeffyrose was asking about her ---I miss her posts on gardenweb---

Florence

Things seem to be in a bit of a relaxed stage around here for a change, so why not?

I happened to have some bird pictures at Photobucket and was tidying up over there. They're very nice I thought and I've wanted to share them with anybody that would tolerate it before I delete them from the site.

A few more Cardinals for you.

I have about a hundred more if you're interested....

I took them a couple years ago. I don't really know much about lenses and all that. I have a Nikon D200 and the lenses says something like AF-S Nikkor 18-200mm 1:3.5-5.6 GII ED. Without my glasses. I don't know what any of that means. I told a friend pretty much what I wanted and that's what he suggested. Easy.

The pics were taken from inside this room where I spend most of my time. I set up the camera in a window, had a curtain I could hide behind, set up the focus in a general area that I had baited with bird seed, knew the flight patterns that I had observed....

Jacked up the ISO to super, super high so that I could also jack up the shutter speed super, super high. I have a little extension thingee that means I can press it and the camera has the ability to take some number of pictures in very quick sucession. Like three or four or something per second.

Waited til they were about to fly in and "click, click, click, click, click......"

The actual pictures I took are much larger than just the tiny piece that you're seeing. I'd take a big picture, thousands of them, I bet, and then be lucky to get a very nice picture off in one small corner, say. I'd crop it and here you are.

I enjoy photography.

Hay

Lovely pictures, Hay... a welcome respite from politics!

And, Don_socal, those are wonderful rose and garden photos! Simply spectacular! The Cecile Brunner bower is amazing! I, myself, have a large hoop arbor with two young Cecile Brunners climbing. I hope they look half that good in coming years! We grow so many rose and companion perennials that I couldn't begin to name them all... but I recognize several roses as ones we have growing, too! A garden like that must take a lot of work to maintain... but the results are breathtaking, stunning! Thank you for sharing!

And if I haven't yet said so, welcome to those new to posting... HT isn't always a horrible forum, so please don't be such strangers! The more, the merrier? ;-)

Best wishes
Jon

They make me miss my perennial beds now that we are living at the lake. However birds I have!!! For the first time in 18 years we have two Cardinals coming to the feeder. They look so gorgeous perched with the Jays on the bows of the evergreens. Now I'm inspired to take pictures of them!!

I think that's me and Hydrangeas. I've got pictures that people have taken of me sitting in the midst of some of my Hydrangeas and I'm almost camouflaged with my clothing and the colors of Hydrangeas. They're my colors. Roses not so much. (I had a friend who once paid for me to go to a "color consultant" group class. (I highly recommend it!! I'm a Winter.))

Lavenderlver, I love red and purple together. One of my favorite dressing combinations. I always wear a tee shirt and an unbuttoned long sleeve shirt over it when I go out. The layered look and I can shed the long sleeve shirt when things get hot. I like red tees and purple long sleeves.

But, it's gotta be Crimson Red with the tinge of purple, not Scarlet Red with the tinge of orange. Just like my Hydrangeas.

I'm not a bad photographer as they go, but my "technique" is to take thousands and thousands of pictures and hope that I get one or two good ones out of that.

I'm feeling better today, so I won't start in on the Hydrangea pictures. Thanks. You can all go back to fawning over Dave now.

Hay

I mean, did Zane Grey wear a hot pink boa, have a purple paisley saddle blanket?

I think you see my point.

jon and Campanula, I really enjoy your posts at HT. I agree that it is always refreshing to hear from Aussies, Canadians, and Brits -- any posters from overseas.

Welcome, lurkers.

Check traffic before you cross the street.

I hope you don't mind.

Hay

Hay

Fin.

Hay

Hay

Don't even know where to start, here. Darwin awards?

Two years later still making money off the same act!

I think the idea is that they want good traction. I was flabbergasted by the sight, too, but apparently that's the typical footwear.

The announcer joked that the competitors didn't like the idea of using steel toed shoes because, if they were to miss, they didn't want to ruin a good axe.

Hay

I have learned a lot about people. People of all sorts of personalities and thoughts that I would have never met otherwise.

But I confess, I don't like some of the "discussions." Too often it seems as if it's just a matter that everyone wants to have The Last Word. The issue is unimportant.

And so, I lurk. Today, I sit here in my Gardenweb.com tee shirt, dated Summer 1999. That's 13 years. And I was here long before there was a Hot Topic forum. Things have changed a lot!!!

Labrea--I love that first pic of the blue heron! But I enjoy so many of your pics.

Hay, I like how you focus in on a significant detail--like the young blond boy observing the axe-wielder.

Kate

Paulines 'eh?

Love the Heron photos, Joe! We have some that stop in at the creek running through the property. Of course, I never have a camera handy when I could really use one!

I don't know... sharp axes and tennis shoes don't exactly inspire the thought of common sense... but I suppose they know what they're doing?