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If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on
Tue, Nov 5, 13 at 21:32

National Geographic mag has an interactive web page with maps showing what the world shorelines would be with 216 feet of added melt water and an average 80F (versus current 58F average).

Here is a link that might be useful: If all the ice melted


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

Incredible.


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

Yeh, but, I thought there was more ice than ever now? Why are we supposed to worry about a melt?


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"Yeh, but, I thought there was more ice than ever now?"

Really? Are you being serious? Where'd ya hear that one?


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

Oops, no more Florida.

Not much left of Cuba, and the Yucatan Peninsula shrinks greatly.

The alternative location for a competitor to the Panama Canal is very apparent.

California's Central Valley will be the Central Bay, and the Imperial Valley will be the Imperial Bay. Not clear from the map, but I suspect my home will be underwater.

Europe loses a lot of land; the Lega Nord in Italy, with its quixotic notion of Padania and autonomy, will be lords of a flooded Po plain. No more worries about trying to save Venice either -- addio Venezia!


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

If you look at those maps from a population prospective they are much more striking!


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

Our former Oz Prime Minister just made a speech in London to a gathering of like-minded climate change sceptics...

"London: Former prime minister John Howard has poured scorn on the "alarmist" scientific consensus on global warming in a speech to a gathering of British climate sceptics, comparing those calling for action on climate change to religious zealots.

Mr Howard said he was an "agnostic" on climate science and he preferred to rely on his instinct, which told him that predictions of doom were exaggerated.

He also relied on a book written by a prominent climate sceptic, which scientists have attacked as ignorant and misleading."

Problem is, our newly elected Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, is a devout follower and sycophant of Howard...

Here is a link that might be useful: CC Agnostic


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

Ostriches will always bury their head in the ground. Maybe if it floods, they'll be the first to drown.


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No, they will first scamper to higher ground, bury their heads, and mutter: " what flooding".


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ROFL. Yep, you are correct!


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Tony Abbott has been getting himself into trouble for his ham fisted approach to international diplomacy too shax. Its so embarrassing to have a buffoon for a PM.

as far as global warming ...it is a sad fact.


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

It's a very sad fact.


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I saw that recently, Marshallz... low lying land will disappear first as sea levels rise. Physics in action.

An actual "agnostic" might be skeptical, but he'd still probably want to take some action anyway... just in case.


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

Elevations are well known - what we need to know is at what rate the ice is melting and will melt. Currently the time estimates are large enough that nobody is worried about anything tangible.

For example I own a house in FL, as do my parents, my sister, and a horde of other relatives, and not one of us thinks that Florida is going under in any timescale that matters.


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

Wish we had a mountain here for me to move to...


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It looks like my hillside, about 400 feet above Baltimore, will have a good view of the Atlantic. Finally, waterfront property.


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

My farm would be burnt toast; no, make that an offshore canyon at its present 110-160-foot elevation.

I can't image such thorough melting of existing ice caps. The more conservative judgment of scientist is sea-level rise in the range of 6-13 meters (about 20-40 feet) to match the likely highest interglacial sea levels. (The lowest level is estimated to have been 100 meters below current sea level.) But that highest level, coming about 400,000 years ago was likely not much warmer than today and will a lower level of atmospheric carbon dioxide (and related to great solar radiation cycle). We are in a cooler phase of radiation cycle. Not good news, still.

Current icecaps in Greenland and the Western Ice Sheet of Antarctica are relics of the ice age and are expected to melt away.

Here is a link that might be useful: Some bit of sea-level science


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 6, 13 at 8:59

# 74

Looks like Silicon Valley becomes Silicon Lake?
Bye-bye OBX, but that will go under long before all the ice melts.


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

I'd be under, so would children at present locations.

If it doesn't stop raining today I might be anyway--it's a pretty narrow peninsula here.

I'm not going to waste anytime worrying about this one, though.


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

My advice.

Build inland.


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The concensus seems to be about 2-meter rise in 100 years minimum and maximum closer to 7 meters. A meter of rise will be devastating because of storm surges pounding coastal cities and towns.


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High ground is recommended in all things... even moral. ;-)


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This is a bit troublesome and explains to some extent why there is less atmospheric heating than expected:

Here is a link that might be useful: Oceans heating up faster now than in the past 10,000 years, says new study


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

Marshall, the maps of India and China are really troubling.

And since the Caspian Sea really, really expands (along with the Black Sea), I wonder if any of the current oil fields will be underwater.


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mmm, we'll be swimming......


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One thing that I noticed on the maps was that they do not show what the rivers would look like if the melting happened. If you would look at a topo map for your area many areas surrounding rivers should also be gone. My elevation is around 500 feet. The river and creeks should also cover more area.


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

But we should still be safe for mountain top removal coal mining and burning.


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Meanwhile, back at the ranch….

Super typhoon Haiyan, likely the strongest storm to form on the planet this year, is heading toward a Friday morning landfall in the Philippines, posing an extremely serious threat to the central part of the archipelago.

The storm is near its theoretical maximum strength, with sustained winds of 290 kph, and is not expected to weaken significantly, due to very warm water temperatures along its path, reports the Washington Post.

Haiyan, known as Yolanda in the Philippines, is likely to push a storm surge of at least two or three meters along the eastern coast of southern Luzon and Samar islands, and will impact the area that was ravaged by the 7.1 magnitude earthquake in mid-October.

Here is a link that might be useful: link with cool and very scary pic


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mmm, we'll be swimming......

Mmmmmmm..no, we'll be compost.


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That is a stunning typhoon. Poor Filipinos. I have a friend retired to an island in the center of this path, their property is on the shoreline. God help them.


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Writing for Quartz, meteorologist Eric Holthaus says that the super typhoon Haiyan about to hit the Philippines is the worst storm he has ever seen. With sustained winds of 190mph (305km/h) and staggering gusts of 230mph (370km/h), its "intensity has actually ticked slightly above the maximum to 8.1 on an 8.0 scale." Update: It broke 235mph.

Holthaus says that Yolanda - its Filipino name - beats "Wilma (2005) in intensity by 5mph - that was the strongest storm ever in the Atlantic," which makes it a member of the select club of Worst Storms Ever in the Planet. Only three other storms since 1969 have reached this intensity.

That's certainly foreboding enough, but the humanitarian disaster that may unfold could be immense. The latest forecast track by the JTWC shows Haiyan passing very near Tacloban, a city of a quarter million people, and Cebu, a city of nearly one million people.

Meh. Burn mo' coal.


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I've been watching this beast of a storm bear down on the Philippines...

Some fundamental or other recently announced that abortion is causing Global Warming and it's problems... if that's at all helpful in solving the mess, David.

Maybe we're just not cutting down enough rain forest or burning enough fossil fuels...


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Abortion causes global warming and storms?! This country is jus' too freakin' stupid for words.


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Makes God angry, so He is punishing abortionists in the Phillipines to make examples (and perhaps to reduce population of a country with one of the highest birthrates in the world.) Lot more poor people than better off middle-class sinners.


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

It makes me feel ill.

I was in that storm of 1969 - called Camille, my parent's home was built were a mile from the beach front.
I was in high school, I went outside at daybreak to see the damage - incredible, really can't be described.

I will never forget the morning sound of the screaming squirrels.

May those people be safe.


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"Scientists will say that it's impossible to link a single weather event to climate change, and so we can't be certain if without the warming of our planet's atmosphere and oceans super typhoon Haiyan would've been weaker. But we do know that warm water is hurricane and typhoon fuel, so it's not such a stretch to ask the question, especially after the series of record-breaking storms that we've seen in the past decade.
CNN writes: "With sustained winds of 315 kph (195 mph) and gusts as strong as 380 kph (235 mph), Haiyan may be the strongest tropical cyclone to hit land anywhere in recorded history. It will take further analysis after the storm passes to establish whether it is a record."

315 kph/195 mph sustained! It only takes 252 kph to be declared a category 5 storm, so this is a super-strong 5.

When hurricane Katrina made its landfall in the Gulf Coast, it had sustained winds of 205 kph/125 mph, and Super Storm Sandy's highest sustained winds were of 185 kph/115 mph. This doesn't take away from the destruction caused by these storms, but it does put in perspective just how strong Super Typhoon Haiyan is!"

end quote

And now on its way to Viet Nam, gaining strength over the warm water.

/burn more coal. It has nothing to do with it. Its da gays.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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The map is mind-boggling: bye-bye Washington, Norfolk, Virginia Beach, Charleston, New Orleans, and so many other large urban areas. Of course, one could argue that there is time to plan, but given the lazy intelligence of most of our population, one tends to move into the camp of cynics and despair.


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" one could argue that there is time to plan,"

One or two could, but massive urban areas really can't, can they? What are they supposed to do, plan themselves out of existence by a particular year? The rate of rise can't be predicted on a time scale that matters for urban planning. What year is the final year that it will be viable to maintain services for the city of Norfolk, for example? Or, if they want to make a ten year plan stating now, regarding specific measures to take, will sea-level rise a centimeter or ten centimeters during that decade? It makes a big difference, and probably they are both equally likely based on what can be deduced now.

Far Rockaway is going to demolish some buildings, not because they planned it, but because they were wrecked and it now seems likely they'll get wrecked again sooner than later, so why rebuild? That's how the coastal cities will die, one non-rebuild decision after another until it is not viable for most people to live there, and a few die-hards will continue to live in what will be an interesting sort of dystopian frontier for probably quite a long time.


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I think you're right on the money, brown. No plans to invest in a retirement home near the ocean in my future. One less thing, I guess.


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Of course, one could argue that there is time to plan, but given the lazy intelligence of most of our population, one tends to move into the camp of cynics and despair.

And they'll all be shocked........SHOCKED....when the water is lapping at their front door.

Why didn't anyone tell us?


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Until there is a one-time dose cure for greed, given at birth, nothing will change.

The end of the world is coming!!!


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Nov 11, 13 at 13:05

The end of the world is coming!!!

......not fast enough for some folk.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

Ice in the North Pole melting does NOT cause any rise in ocean levels.

It's sixth grade science. Take a class of water and put some ice in it. Then fill the class to the very top to a point where the cohesion forms a crown in the water.

Let it sit and let the ice melt. Notice the amount of water does NOT rise over the glass. because ice is thicker than water and displaces more volume.

The North Pole is one big ice cube in the ocean.

And the earth has not warmed in the last 19 years anyway, so there's nothing to worry about.


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Hoooooot!

BTW, the Arctic ice is comparable to a dusting of talcum powder not floating ice cubes that displace their volume of water. Where are the the major water storage ice volumes?


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If 99% of doctors thought you had cancer, and one or two didn't ,I wonder which one you'd chose to believe.

I will have almost have ocean front property, not that I'll be around to enjoy it

My head cannot wrap around the tragedy playing out in the Philippines now. It's heartbreaking watching the suffering of the people who survived. Many of then will die from lack of food and water. The 10,000 and more are rotting corpses now and no infrastructure remains.

So all you flat earth society members, it'll eventually come here just like Sandy did last year, but it will strike like this typhoon and 10,000's of Americans will die too. Will that get your tiny minds attention?


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"And the earth has not warmed in the last 19 years anyway...."

Are you serious???


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•Posted by christopherh SoVT (My Page) on
Mon, Nov 11, 13 at 13:05

The North Pole is one big ice cube in the ocean."

I tend to believe the following:

Best AnswerAsker's Choice
dougger

First, melting the north pole ice cap (and nothing else) will not raise the sea level. When floating ice melts the water level stays the same. (Prove it to yourself. Fill a glass 1/2 full of water and float an ice cube in it. Let it melt. However, in the same glass, put in enough ice cubes so that the ice touches the bottom and some ice is above the water, that is the ice is supported, then when it melts the water level will go up.)
The world will have a quick run of increasing temperatures. The ice cap reflects a lot of light. Dark sea water absorbs it.
The circulation will change. The polar air masses will be warmer for longer, affecting the weather, and encouraging glacial ice to melt. The melting of this supported ice will raise the sea levels. It is thought that this effect once started is self feeding.
Some scientists believe the full melting of the ice cap will be the point of no return.The earth will keep heating until a new and unpredictable equilibrium is established. Many others think the change will cause dislocation but eventually stabilize without too much real damage. These complacent jerks are wrong.
As more than 1/2 the planets population will be displaced in just a few years you can expect violence at every level, tribal to continental. Even the U.S. intelligence putzes are starting to recognize this.
It will be a mess for a long time.


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The aftermath of super-damaging storms in the tropics is much worse than in temperate latitudes because of the heat. Bodies and food spoil with shocking speed and pathogens in surface waters build to toxic levels in no time.


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

The ground zero for the "global warming" hoax is East Anglia University. A Prof Phillips started the hoax in order go get money. Then the emails were exposed saying the temp indicators that disproved his "facts" were not included in the results, proving he was a fraud.

Satellite readings do not show any warming of the earth in the last 16 years, not 19 years as I previous said.

That's why the warming nuts changed the term to "climate change" as now there studies saying we're in for 50 years of global cooling.

We can't stop it. We can't tax the rich to prevent it.

But Algore made $100, 000,000 playing Chicken Little. ALWAYS follow the money!


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

Chris, your posts are pretty rich, can we tax you?


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Always follow the money.

Annual amount of coal burned: 7,831 million tons at $10 - $50 a ton

Amount of petroleum consumed: 80 million barrels at $40 - $100 a barrel, per day.

And they want you to believe that burning all that stuff and pouring the garbage into the sky has no effect at all.


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

I burn wood. It's a renewable resource and I use less oil.

Vermont has the most amount of woodstoves per capita and we have the cleanest air in all of New England. .

PN BROWN, it's not tax the OTHER guy, you should be willing to pay more taxes yourself. Would YOU be willing to give the Government 30% of YOUR income to fight global warm...er.. climate change?


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The EPA is going to ban most form of wood-burning heating owing to contributions to carbon dioxide and monoxide overload to the planet's atmosphere and biosphere. The EPA wishes to ban wildfires but cannot get Nature to conform; something about excessive droughts and global warming interfering.

This post was edited by marshallz10 on Tue, Nov 12, 13 at 11:47


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

As an aside, I finally bought a new, EPA-certified wood stove this year, replacing a 40+ year old Earth Stove whose emissions could be seen from outer space.

They're pretty neat - way more efficient, and engineered so that super-heated air combusts the smoke before it leaves the stove chamber. Ones its up to proper operating temperature, there's no visible smoke at all.


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

As proof of the global cooling, it's blizzarding here and there is a half-inch on the ground. Earliest snowfall by a big margin in the 32 years I've been living in this county. So there you go. Get ready for long cold winters and short summers, that would obviously be the smart strategy. Do not plan for longer hotter summers or more frequent storm events, nor very heavy but isolated rain/snowfalls nor extended periods of drought (like the one that just ended here and ruined all my kale plants).

The EPA will pry my wood stoves from my frozen dead clutches...


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How can people think that dumping tons of CO2 and other greenhouse gases into the environment is NOT going to affect the earth's climate?? We've gone from about 280 ppm CO2 in the pre-industrial era to over 400 ppm now. I am not an expert, wonder when in the pre-industrial times would levels ever have changed that rapidly? Most of that carbon is from man-made source - there are natural sources of CO2, but those are generally offset by natural carbon sinks.

Anyway, a contractor who wanted to buy some of my leftover wood on Craigslist heated his entire 6000 SF home and workshop with radiant heat using hot water from an outdoor wood burning stove with some sort of scrubber that had less emissions. He also installed all LED lighting, saving him thousands of watts of electricity .

This post was edited by terrene on Wed, Nov 13, 13 at 12:15


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

We have switched a lot of bulbs to led here as well. They are quite superior.

The outdoor wood-burning boilers have some serious pollution problems, so bad in fact that my town has banned them. This is because a boiler must stop heating once the water-store hits its high temp; the only way to do that is to stope all air to the fire, which "chokes" it, and when air and flue are re-opened there is a huge burp of smog. This is unavoidable.


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

At the link are the results of a survey conducted by Stanford University Professor Jon Krosnick on new state level data on Americans’ views on climate change.

Its somewhat encouraging. Click on each question to view the percentage in each state that agree with the question.

And now if only Congress paid attention…

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: If all the ice melted -- shorelines mapped anew

Dave, that's remarkable how close the numbers are between blue/red states. Another example of how a lot of the supposed conservative/liberal polarization is malarkey - fabricated by extremists.


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