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Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Posted by demifloyd 8 (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 6, 13 at 21:56

The State of Louisiana has decided to cut food stamp benefits for some of the people who intentionally overspent and cheated to take advantage of the fact that the computer systems in Walmart stores were not working back in October.

I'm thanking David Vitter for pursuing this.

People should realize there are consequences to theft.

Louisiana to cut food stamp benefits for those who deliberately overspent


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Wouldn't it be more sensible to charge the person with fraud or what ever and make them responsible rather than denying food to their dependent children? By simply taking away food stamp benefits you hurt the innocent as well as the guilty. It doesn't help to say the parent ought to know better. The children aren't responsible. They will be going hungry.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Too bad the store couldn't follow contractual requirements for such an emergency:

It happened at retail stores in 17 states, but most followed contractual requirements to set a $50 limit and call for authorization of charges during a system outage.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

There was something on the radio this evening about Walmart having a computer glitch on their website, with absurdly low prices on some items. Like a treadmill for $32.

/computer glitches - its not just food stamps and the ACA anymore.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Patricia, of course it would be more sensible. And not heartless. I can't believe anyone would think that the right way to punish those that cheated is to take food out of their children's mouths.

~Ann


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

I can't believe anyone would think that the right way to punish those that cheated is to take food out of their children's mouths.

*

No one is taking food out of anyone's mouths.

These people already got way more to which they were entitled.

From what I can see, no one is being eliminated from the program.

They got more than they deserved and will have to have cuts to make up for the extra food they got.

Food stamps aren't meant to be the sole means of food for people.

THAT is why the word "supplement" is used.

Sort of like---social SECURITY.


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IMO it is not appropriate for a society to provide an ecological niche for the socially undesirable, who then tend to reproduce at a faster rate than would otherwise be possible for them. Especially food, which definitely increases reproduction rates.

I oppose conjugal prison visits for the same reason.

Really, all they seem to want to do in this case is recoup what was lost--softies that they are.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

So poverty is a sign of social undesirability. Well Eibren you'd best hope you don't by some chance turn of fortunes wheel end up needing some sort of assistance because surely Karma would get you back.

It is and has been a popular notion that allowing the surplus population to starve would solve problems like theft but it never has. Frankly when you look at who is doing the real and serious stealing, they are not only well fed, they are eating turtle soup. We wont even get into the spread of disease from this starving population of inferior people.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Jonathan Swift had a solution for getting rid of "socially undesirable" folks in A Modest Proposal. At least his satire was funny--eibren's, on the other hand, makes me cringe.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Not everyone on food stamps falls into the socially undesirable category. Just the ones plopping out the gang bangers. They definitely are undesirable around here.

A six-year-old shot last night here. Bullet through his lung. On a ventilator. Pretty undesirable, if you ask me.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

A six-year-old shot last night here. Bullet through his lung. On a ventilator. Pretty undesirable, if you ask me.

Another violent night in Chicago involving black on black crime. Seven shot, three dead.

But tell me more about the crazy white boy who shot up mall property in NJ. That makes headlines, not some poor black child in Chicago.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Nov 7, 13 at 8:40

This is how it works (and should) for public programs ... the amount of money that was spent will be deducted from the benefits they would have received over the next several weeks/months.

OTOH Walmart who decided to allow this to happen knowing they had no way to check balances is being forced to bite the bullet. Perhaps they thought they would be paid, but from what I understand they will not.

David I read that, the computer glitch allowed people (obviously using their credit cards) to order expensive electronics online and only pay $8.85 (computers etc) ... now whether or not Walmart will actually ship the merchandise at that price is yet to be seen.

I recently read about a woman who was overpaid by her pension fund, and she was quite well aware that they were sending her too much money. Well, like with most things, it caught up to her and the pension is demanding their money back and has cut the amount she receives. I think she owes them something like 67K? This is not the only case either.

When my father applied for social security they sent him over 4X the amount he was supposed to receive, he did not spend it but instead notified them of their error.

Their are all types of ways people cheat and steal ... and some even justify it.

1/2 cent


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

"Javer lives"


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

When one of our employees was busted for welfare fraud, I believe they suspended her benefits, but not the benefits of her 4 kids.

I believe she had "some" benefits suspended for 1 year, received 1 year of probation and was ordered to pay restitution.

Many local media stories cover the charges of welfare fraud, however don't follow up on sentencing and penalties.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

"OTOH Walmart who decided to allow this to happen knowing they had no way to check balances is being forced to bite the bullet. Perhaps they thought they would be paid, but from what I understand they will not."

This was Walmart's blunder, and they can certainly afford to eat the cost as the mega-wealthy corporation they are. Call it an oops, and move on. Next time, shut down the system if an expensive error occurs.

Elsewhere...

Some people have very strange ideas about society and its many forms of members...

I just keep thinking about something I learned when little, and even though I no longer believe in the concepts behind it all, some of the messages are strong ones... "Whatsoever you do unto the least of your brothers, that you do unto Me."


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Posted by jodik 5 (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 7, 13 at 10:31

"OTOH Walmart who decided to allow this to happen knowing they had no way to check balances is being forced to bite the bullet. Perhaps they thought they would be paid, but from what I understand they will not."

This was Walmart's blunder, and they can certainly afford to eat the cost as the mega-wealthy corporation they are. Call it an oops, and move on. Next time, shut down the system if an expensive error occurs.

Elsewhere...

Some people have very strange ideas about society and its many forms of members...

I just keep thinking about something I learned when little, and even though I no longer believe in the concepts behind it all, some of the messages are strong ones... "Whatsoever you do unto the least of your brothers, that you do unto Me."

*

For someone that has consistently mocked and disparaged religion and a belief in God, you sure do quote the Bible and Jesus' teachings a lot.

Why?

Yep--applying it to the thieves--they STOLE from God.

Taxpayers were providing to thieves--I think they're good on this conscience thing.

So is Walmart--they tried to do the right thing and are eating most if not all of this.

It's the thieving food stamp recipients (and not all of them were, as noted by my SECOND thread on this topic) that did wrong, not taxpayers helping and Walmart helping.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

I miss your input in the Billion Dollar thievery posts so Ho Hum!


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  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Nov 7, 13 at 11:03

Demi not sure why you quoted only part of what I wrote, maybe you missed the fact that I agreed with their loss of benefits? Walmart had to assume they would get paid, I cannot imagine they would have allowed it if they did not expect to be reimbursed.

I am done ...


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

The 2 recent Walmart glitches ( EBT and The Pricing Mistake) serve as a good test of the nature of many shoppers/thieves.


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Ohiomom--I was actually quoting Jodik's post, which quoted part of your post.

I understood your POV.


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Posted by labrea 7NYC (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 7, 13 at 11:02

I miss your input in the Billion Dollar thievery posts so Ho Hum!

*

There are so many that do such a great job in that regard, my efforts would pale in comparison.

On the other hand, we only have a handful of posters that are upset about what prolific dependency will do to this country.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

"These people already got way more to which they were entitled."

Obviously, that thinking is much too complex for the Democrat base.

"So poverty is a sign of social undesirability."

No. Poverty is a state. Theft is a behavior.

"But tell me more about the crazy white boy who shot up mall property in NJ. That makes headlines, not some poor black child in Chicago."

Young black sons falling in Chicago's streets are like trees falling in the forest. If the MSM doesn't take you there, you never hear the sound.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

I'm glad you're back Eibren.
You just stated, very succinctly, what others really think and I admire your unapologetic frankness in stating exactly how you think about the issue.
I dont agree with you at all, but I admire your complete frankness regarding your opinion about how the needy should be dealt with.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Since the people did not steal from the Snap program and instead stole from Walmart why aren't they being treated like common criminals as in if they have no history of previous thieving they would normally get some minimal sentence and community service and if they do in fact have a criminal history they would suffer more severe consequences? This leaves the benefit program in place which as we know is primarily there to assist children.

Mylab- I don't often disagree with you but in this case I do not respect eibren for stating such a draconian approach to societal issues. It was exactly that sort of thinking and the convincing statement of it that led to the death of so many Irish people during the potato famines. Many European countries had the same exact crop failures but did not have the deaths since they supported the starving because they didn't think of their poor as either inferior or excess.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

I understand Patricia. A lot of members will feel as you do if they dont yet. Including conservatives, because its hard to pin Eibren down on where she falls politically.

In this case though, we have a poster who is willing to say exactly what she thinks, she words it as plainly as she can, she doesnt play word games and never words anything in a way where, when called out publicly, becomes outraged and denies that she said what it is she just stated.
Though I do abhor many statements Eibren has made in the past (though not all, by any means) she DOES state how she feels and thinks, why she does and that's that.
She doesnt want a cheerleading squad, once turned on a few who showed signs of forming one on her behalf and doesnt care a fig what anyone at all thinks of her position. Often doesnt even respond to those who get upset with her posts. I never had the feeling that she was trying to change anyone's point of view, just adding her own to the thread.
With Eibren, I discovered when she was here last time that it is what it is, one can take it or leave it, she doesnt care. I can never recall Eibren whining that people were personally out to get her in here or people being mean to her, not ever.

She and I went round and round about two issues in particular, we arent bosom buddies, in case anyone has a notion about that. She probably has no idea who I am and if she remembers, it is probably not in a very complimentary way. That's ok with me.


However, I once saw her turn her position around when she felt someone made a better argument than she and said so. Only once (which is 100% more than most in here!) but she did, and I gained a lot of admiration for her because she did.
So I will read her positions here with interest, maybe appalled interest and though I hope with ALL my might that some of them are never put into force while at the same time, hoping a few I remember she held actually do.

There are a lot who had a lot of problems with her and got into heated debates about her positions, and I understand that. Her post in this thread, if written by anyone else in this forum would have made me want to make a cleverly worded insult, something which so many of us have gotten so good at.
But with Eibren, Ive always had the feeling that some shockingly worded opinions she has posted has never been for effect , for fun, to irritate or to pot stir out of boredom or stress release. She isnt part of a pack and doesnt care about such things.

At least this has always been my impression.

A lot of us, when piled on after making a response for just those stated purposes ( fun, effect, irritate etc) will SAY they dont care what anyone here thinks - but Ive always had the gut feeling that Eibren really and truly doesnt.
I admire that ability.
As long as she never has the power to enforce *some* of the changes she would like to see ( like the above) - hey - Im good with Eibren.
I do get it that you dont understand my reaction, Patricia. I must confess, I hope she will stay, at least for awhile.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

For someone that has consistently mocked and disparaged religion and a belief in God, you sure do quote the Bible and Jesus' teachings a lot.

What a thing to say....what's it to you if jodi quotes the Bible? You don't have to believe the stories to believe the underlying philosophy you know.

Again, there was a protocol that the store was supposed to follow in the event something like this happened. The store chose not to following the procedure (17 other stores in different states DID follow the procedure and this did not happen). It was entirely Walmart's fault and they should have to swallow the loss.

I heard a similar thing happened with one of the airlines (was it United?). There was a glitch and people were able to buy tickets for free. Instead of making them pay for the tickets after the fact, the airline honored the free fare.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Posted by jerzeegirl 9 (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 7, 13 at 16:54

For someone that has consistently mocked and disparaged religion and a belief in God, you sure do quote the Bible and Jesus' teachings a lot.

What a thing to say....what's it to you if jodi quotes the Bible? You don't have to believe the stories to believe the underlying philosophy you know.

*

What's it to you what I observe?

You don't mind making our own observations--and way more than observations--personal JUDGMENTS about people--and posting them, and you don't get in anyone else's face other than a conservative.

Guess you think Jodik needs defending?

Jodik frequently quotes scripture and the Bible and uses religion to whack conservatives, yet consistently mocks and belittles the intelligence of those who believe in God for believing in God--in her descriptions of those who do so believing in "fairy tales" and the concept of Jesus Christ dying for our sins and is our Savior, and consistently disparages organized religion.

I find an obvious disconnect there and noted it.

Sue me Jerzeegirl or get over it.


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So we can respect Eibrem for having the courage of her convictions but not for her convictions? My issue is with the so called reasoned argument part. If you convince people that your point of view is valid and there are serious impacts because of that(people die) do we still respect courage of the convictions? Do we respect the purveyors of Nazi race hate? 12 million people died. The Nazi's made some very impassioned arguments that convinced a lot of people that their point of view was valid and all those 12 million were a threat to the rest of the population of Europe and the world. Victorian were likewise convinced that if they bailed out the feckless poor of Ireland they would never learn personal responsibility and would just continue to breed and starve. That idea tragically delayed the sort of intervention that Belgium started right away when their own crops failed. Ideas can kill.


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Why DOESN'T eibren get attacked and insulted? Hmmmmmm. She says some of the same things that we say.

Hey! Wait a minute. Maybe eibren IS mylab.


•Posted by brushworks Zone5-Ohio (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 7, 13 at 7:34
Another violent night in Chicago involving black on black crime."

AKA, gang violence.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

  • Posted by pesky1 7, Pacific NW (My Page) on
    Thu, Nov 7, 13 at 19:51

Years ago I worked for DHS-the welfare & food stamp division. If someone was found to be frauding food stamps-for whatever reason-the person doing the fraud had their portion of benefits cut until the overage or fraud amount was accounted for.

The same happened if they were convicted of welfare fraud. This was back when they issued actual paper food stamps, so the fraud was a bit more difficult to track, with the electronic EBT, it may be easier.

Regardless who is ultimately going to hold the bag for the open ended benefits-it's still the responsibility of the person who was issued the benefits to know their limit, and if there is to be restitution-it's got to come from that person.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

That was before Democrats started infantilizing adults. Especially women.


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Good point Mylab. I agree with your opinion of Eibren's posts 100%. Welcome back Eibren. I agree the conjugal visits should not be allowed either, but then I have a lot of issues with the prison system.

I too quote the Bible and I believe religion is opium for the masses; however, the Bible is a historical document and those who profess to be "Christians" and don't follow the basic tenets of Christ are phony followers, IMO.


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"Jodik frequently quotes scripture and the Bible and uses religion to whack conservatives, yet consistently mocks and belittles the intelligence of those who believe in God for believing in God--in her descriptions of those who do so believing in "fairy tales" and the concept of Jesus Christ dying for our sins and is our Savior, and consistently disparages organized religion.

I find an obvious disconnect there and noted it"

As a Christian I find your question a "obvious disconnect"

To love money more than the need/want to follow my the teaching is a "obvious disconnect".

To question another about their faith or lack there of is above your pay grade and a obvious disconnect of the teachings of Christianity.

When a pretend Christian profess to follow the teachings and preach from the other side of Christianity the non-believer will naturally question.

If my actions are questioned as to what I have said maybe it is time to take a step back question if I really do love money more than Christ and my teachings.


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Since you quoted me marquest I assume your post is directed to me.

Your post reads like babble.

If my Christianity is questioned by an atheist I tend not to give a flying fig.

Sort of like your post.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Considering the numbers of people attempting to bypass the system I would have been concerned about a violent reaction. By the time the Government's computer glitch was corrected there were plenty of cops and security people there to take action if hostility resulted.

We were not there. We don't know the attitude of the participants. If I had been that store manager I would have acted with the safety of customers and employees in mind as well.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

In the spirit of debate Demi if you actions confirms an atheist in atheistic belief because they see your actions as a confirmation of why they don't believe in God-then you have a problem because the bible is specific on that point. I recall a mill stone and a lake of fire. Luke? I am a bit fuzzy on the details after all these years.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Posted by patriciae Z7PNW (My Page) on
Sat, Nov 9, 13 at 19:01

In the spirit of debate Demi if you actions confirms an atheist in atheistic belief because they see your actions as a confirmation of why they don't believe in God-then you have a problem because the bible is specific on that point. I recall a mill stone and a lake of fire. Luke? I am a bit fuzzy on the details after all these years.

*

I don't have the power to stop anyone from believing in God.

As God knows, and we know, no one is perfect.

Jesus was perfect and yet people still refuse to believe in God.

You're going to hold me to a higher standard than Christ? ROTF

Only their own resistance to the truth prevents people from believing in God, not little old Demi.


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"Only their own resistance to the truth prevents people from believing in God, not little old Demi."

It is not "the" truth simply "your " truth.

IMO your statement is arrogant.

this is a problem I see a lot with some god believers

This post was edited by youngquinn on Sat, Nov 9, 13 at 20:00


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Only their own resistance to the truth

Exactly Own up to the truth. If someone worship at the feet of the dollar...... OWN IT. It is impossible to serve two gods. Money or God and his word we have the choice. Own the truth to which we serve.

"Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless."

The Love of money will make someone worry non-stop of someone taking their money. They will never have enough. Happiness never comes because of the worry that someone will take away what they think will make them happy.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

marquest: "To love money more than the need/want to follow my the teaching is a "obvious disconnect".

To question another about their faith or lack there of is above your pay grade and a obvious disconnect of the teachings of Christianity.

When a pretend Christian profess to follow the teachings and preach from the other side of Christianity the non-believer will naturally question.

If my actions are questioned as to what I have said maybe it is time to take a step back question if I really do love money more than Christ and my teachings."

Yes; I do question what you have said; this is babbling.

As to the OP: "The State of Louisiana has decided to cut food stamp benefits for some of the people who intentionally overspent and cheated to take advantage of the fact that the computer systems in Walmart stores were not working back in October."

Good. It's truly a shame the children will pay part of the price for the transgressions of their parents, but there should be punitive consequences for those parents.


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Good. It's truly a shame the children will pay part of the price for the transgressions of their parents, but there should be punitive consequences for those parents.

smh


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How quickly things change.

•Posted by elvis 4 (My Page) on
Tue, Nov 5, 13 at 11:31

I'm game, too. This site has, believe it or not, taught me a lot about self expression, but more importantly, listening. I am thankful to have found HT and said "what's this?". ...

It's difficult for me to bite my tongue sometimes, but I'm doing it. A lot.

Mylab's post is certainly not the first of its kind, and I hope it's not the last. I think it's important that we keep posting more like it from a variety of posters so that no one poster comes off sounding like a lecturer

Guess you gave up biting your tongue since today you tell another poster they are "babbling" which I believe is against the rules of posting. Too bad your actions don't match your words. Still ankle biting.

JZ, considering from whece it comes it isn't surprising at all.


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It was not Walmart's computers that were at fault. It was the fault of the government's faulty software update.


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Of course it's all Walmart's and the government's fault. Why just choose one of them, when, this time, you can blame both.


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If someone overdraws their personal checking account making a POS transaction, the bank is prohibited from charging a bounce fee (reoccurring charges and business accounts exempt). There is also regulation prohibiting credit card companies from charging an over-limit fee. If a transaction is approved, then there can be no detriment to the customer. But, that doesn't mean the customer is relieved of the charge itself.

I suppose it's a stretch, but a somewhat similar situation in Walmart's case. So best case scenario, these "thieves" were irresponsible, or took advantage, or were financially stupid. I don't understand why anyone would take issue with having them 'pay back' the overages without penalty...that's just common sense.


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Ok, I understand that the children shouldn't be able to suffer for the parents' misdeeds.

So if someone files a tax return using self preparation software and there is an error due to the data entered in the software and the IRS finds the error. As a result the taxpayers owe large amount to the IRS, should they be able to get out of paying because their children might go hungry while they are paying back the IRS? The IRS and tax court won't accept the "turbo tax" excuse which basically the same as the "WalMart let me do it so I can't be held accountable" excuse. The "turbo tax" excuse is basically the software let me do it so I can't be held responsible.

I truly believe the people who overspent their SNAP cards should be held responsible. While paying the money back over a month or so is unreasonable, they should have their benefits reduced so the amount overcharged plus a modest of interest is paid back over six months or a year at most.

I'm curious what happened to the extra food they purchased. Did they consume it over the following week or so or did they save it knowing they might see a reduction in benefits?


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I'm curious what happened to the extra food they purchased. Did they consume it over the following week or so or did they save it knowing they might see a reduction in benefits?

*

I don't know jlhug, but from the behavior I don't think delayed gratification has produced these people who qualify for food stamps and who are thieves.

With all those ribs and meat they probably had big barbeque parties and laughed their behinds off at the stupid working people that footed the bill and congratulated themselves at being so smart to pull it off.

I hope as many as possible aren't laughing now.

This post was edited by demifloyd on Sun, Nov 10, 13 at 8:47


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The bottom line is that the store did not follow the protocol they were supposed to follow and so no one should be surprised that this happened. Had they followed protocol they would have saved everyone a lot of grief.


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Of course.

This thread was about what happened not what should have happened.

What happened revealed the fact that food stamp fraud is not isolated, and in fact, a mob behavior.


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These ARE isolated incidents and you can extrapolate absolutely NOTHING from them.


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  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sun, Nov 10, 13 at 20:51

.......with the large number of people on snap, two stores in one state had fraud. I would definitely call this an "isolated incident".


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I'm curious what happened to the extra food they purchased. Did they consume it over the following week or so or did they save it knowing they might see a reduction in benefits?

I suspect much of the food purchased was food that required refrigeration, so it was consumed, given away etc due to lack of refrigerator/freezer space.

The minimum suspension of benefits is one year, so they'd have to stock up on a lot of dry and canned goods to offset the loss of benefits.

As a result of the outage, DCFS' Fraud and Recovery Unit received details of approximately 12,000 non-sufficient funds transactions conducted while the system was down. Many of these transactions were made by people who were no longer eligible for the program or who had much lower balances available to them than what was spent through the transaction. The Fraud and Recovery Unit continues to investigate the transactions and compile a list of recipients who performed transactions in excess of the available balance on their EBT cards or misrepresented their eligibility for benefits. The Unit will initially target the most egregious violators through the following administrative process:

Suspected violators will be mailed a letter stating DCFS' intent to pursue disqualification of the recipient. The letter will include a brief summary of the issue, the recipient's SNAP balance prior to the transaction(s), the actual transaction(s) that exceeded the available balance and a list of the retailer(s) where the transactions took place. The policies violated will also be identified in the letter.

The recipient will be informed that they can appeal this action within 90 days through an Administrative Disqualification Hearing. If a hearing is requested during that time, DCFS' Fraud and Recovery Unit will request that a hearing be scheduled through the Louisiana Division of Administrative Law. All hearings administered by the Division of Administrative Law are conducted by independent and impartial Administrative Law Judges.

Recipients also can waive their right to appeal by signing and returning a Waiver of Administrative Disqualification Hearing Form that will be included in the letter sent by DCFS. The Fraud and Recovery Unit will impose disqualification upon receipt of the waiver.

If the recipient fails to return the form waiving their right to an administrative hearing, DCFS will schedule an Administrative Disqualification Hearing for the recipient.

Recipients who waive their right to hearing or have their case upheld during an Administrative Disqualification Hearing will be disqualified. Federal guidelines state that first time offenses will result in a 12-month disqualification from the SNAP program. A second offense will result in a 24-month disqualification from the SNAP program. Third offenses will result in a permanent disqualification from the SNAP program.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

"12,000 non-sufficient funds transactions"

In two stores in just a few hours.

That we know about.

I wonder how many "isolated incidents" we would have had if food stamp recipients across the country had received texts or phone calls that their local grocery story computers weren't showing correct SNAP benefits and that they were still allowing people to buy groceries on good faith.

Oh, it's just those people in those two towns in Louisiana, that's all.

Where's that bridge.

Isolated my foot.

This post was edited by demifloyd on Mon, Nov 11, 13 at 8:44


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  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Nov 11, 13 at 8:52

12,000 out of 47 million ... what exactly is that percentage?

Yes it was two stores in two towns in Louisiana .. otherwise there would be reports pouring in from elsewhere around the country.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Nov 11, 13 at 9:04

....a story emerges with everyone’s favorite punching bag, food stamps (or, as they’re known today, SNAP). Earlier this year, Senator John Thune of South Dakota and Rep. Marlin Stutzman of Indiana, both Republicans, introduced legislation to save $30 billion over 10 years from SNAP, purportedly by “eliminating loopholes, waste, fraud, and abuse.” Once you dig into their fact sheet, however, none of the savings actually come from fraud, but rather from cutting funding and tightening benefits. That’s probably because fraud levels in SNAP appear to be as low as with the other “pure welfare” programs we just touched on: “Payment error” rates -- money sent in incorrect amounts and/or to the wrong people -- have declined from near 10 percent a decade ago to 3 to 4 percent today, most of it due, again, to government error, not active fraud. The majority of food-stamp fraud appears to be generated by supermarkets “trafficking” in the food stamps. Beneficiaries intentionally ripping off the taxpayers account for perhaps 1 percent of payments.

Here is a link that might be useful: Isolated


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Culture of corruption.

On video.

Thankfully, many if not most of these thieves will be held accountable for their theft.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Nov 11, 13 at 9:49

wonder how many "isolated incidents" we would have had if food stamp recipients across the country had received texts or phone calls that their local grocery story computers weren't showing correct SNAP benefits and that they were still allowing people to buy groceries on good faith.

Now you are just contradicting your own post about those who "
knew" and chose not to steal.

I am really done now ... :)

Here is a link that might be useful: source of course


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
Mon, Nov 11, 13 at 9:49

wonder how many "isolated incidents" we would have had if food stamp recipients across the country had received texts or phone calls that their local grocery story computers weren't showing correct SNAP benefits and that they were still allowing people to buy groceries on good faith.

Now you are just contradicting your own post about those who "
knew" and chose not to steal.

I am really done now ... :)

*

THERE IS NO CONTRADITION, Ohiomom.

If calls were made to every food stamp recipient on that day that the system was down and the local grocery story was letting people get groceries on the "honor system" of having enough of their cards, don't you think many more instances of theft and fraud would have occurred?

Don't you think some people that have food stamp benefits, like some in Louisiana I posted about, would also do the right thing and NOT participate in the fraud?

So explain to me how my statement contradicts anything I said.

We would have a lot more of those instances of fraud if that information was applicable in every state in every town to all food stamp recipients.

Of course not everyone with the benefits would participate--for God's sake I posted a THREAD pointing that out.

There is nothing I have said that is incongruent.
What is your thinking about this and why do you say you are done?


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

I suspect many will get off easy. They'll have their benefits suspended, however they won't face criminal charges, or have to pay restitution as the stores will just eat the loss.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Nov 11, 13 at 9:59

My thinking on this was in my first post to this thread, they committed fraud ... they were caught ... they are being punished. Isn't that enough?

Or perhaps we should flog them in public and/or have a public execution like in North Korea?

99% of SNAP recipients do not commit fraud .. for a government run program that is pretty good IMO.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

In just two days, the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program (SNAP) - better known as food stamps - will experience a drop in benefits as the boost provided as a result of the 2009 stimulus bill expires.
Clearly, this comes as good news to the many Americans who believe that the food assistance program has grown out of control, allowing many low-income Americans to ‘scam” the taxpayers by using our tax dollars to feed their children at government expense.

One wonders, however, if the millions of Americans who are so pleased to see food stamp benefits lowered - with more cuts likely to come - understand the impact this will have on a segment of society that one would be loathe to call ‘freeloaders’ seeking to live on the largesse of their country?

That would be the 900,000 veterans who offered up their lives for their country only to return home to find employment exceedingly difficult to come by - thereby creating the need for food stamps to provide for their families.

Because the overall unemployment numbers for veterans (6.5 percent) is lower than the national unemployment number that includes everyone in the job market, there is a presumption that veterans are not a significant part of the population in need of government assistance in the guise of food stamps.

However, what these numbers fail to reveal is that veterans who served their country subsequent to 2001 suffer an unemployment rate of close to 10 percent, placing this group well above the national average. These are the warriors who find themselves so badly in need of SNAP benefits in order to help feed their children and these are the defenders of their country who are now to be denied a significant portion of that assistance.

In fact, accordingly to a report out this week from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, approximately 900,000 veterans are currently dependent, in whole or part, on food stamp benefits to care for their themselves and their families. While the amount they receive is small - currently at an average of about $135.00 a month - that number will now drop by $36 a month for a family of four.

While that may seem like small change to many of those who think that we overspend on the SNAP program, imagine if your own monthly food budget were to be cut by more than 20 percent, particularly when you only have slightly over a dollar a day to feed each member of your family.

This from Bryce Covert over at ThinkProgress -

“Veterans can face a lot of challenges finding work when they return from service. While overall the unemployment rate for veterans is 6.5 percent, those who have served since 2001 to the present have an unemployment rate of 9.7 percent. Nearly one in 10 veterans with disabilities were without employment in 2010. They are also disproportionately likely to live in poverty and to be homeless. In 2010, nearly a million veterans ages 18 to 64 had experienced poverty over the past year. As of 2011, nearly one in seven homeless adults was a veteran and more than four in ten homeless veterans were without shelter. They are therefore heavily impacted by cuts to the social safety net.”

While the defense budget continues to take roughly 20 percent of every dollar spent by the federal government, how can it be that we are willing to spend so much of the nation’s treasury for the preparation and execution of war and then deny those who fought the wars the assistance they need once they have completed their service to their country?

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

•Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
Mon, Nov 11, 13 at 9:59

My thinking on this was in my first post to this thread, they committed fraud ... they were caught ... they are being punished. Isn't that enough?"

I don't see the punishment. Oh, you mean paying back the money they owe for overspending?


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

As I mentioned above, the law may not permit any 'punishment', even if the overspending was purposeful. Electronic transactions are strictly regulated and again, if a transaction was approved, there can be no detriment or penalties to the customer or consumer (other than paying back the overage).

Banks and credit card companies have lost a bundle as they no longer can charge bounce or overlimit fees on certain types of transactions.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

"While that may seem like small change to many of those who think that we overspend on the SNAP program, imagine if your own monthly food budget were to be cut by more than 20 percent, particularly when you only have slightly over a dollar a day to feed each member of your family."

Wait a minute. When 69 year old widow Citywoman lost her insurance and said she would have to come up with an extra $400 a month to pay for a replacement policy, obamacare fans suggested that she should suck it up. She had gotten the benefit of an inexpensive policy for several years, so what was she complaining about.

But I haven't heard any lefties suggest food stamp recipients should suck it up and be glad they got extra help while it lasted.

Not one word from the left about why able bodied adults capable (and fond) of giving birth on a regular basis should never, ever have to get in the "give something back" line, but disciplined Americans in the middle class can never get out of it.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Wait a minute. When 69 year old widow Citywoman lost her insurance and said she would have to come up with an extra $400 a month to pay for a replacement policy, obamacare fans suggested that she should suck it up. She had gotten the benefit of an inexpensive policy for several years, so what was she complaining about.

I KNEW there was a fly in the ointment and here it is coming out of nik's mouth! Citywoman is 69 years old and is complaining about losing her insurance policy because of Obamacare, This is a virtual impossibility. All her lost sleep and crocodile tears for nothing. At 69 she would be on Medicare and I know for a fact that she can get a Medicare Advantage plan that includes drugs for $0. All she has to pay is the $104 monthly Part B premium. Obviously if she tries to get regular insurance the cost would be astronomical since she is 69! That's why Medicare exists.

So the question remains - why do you have to invent false stories and well I guess lies to make your point? Is it because there is no point to be made unless you just make it up?


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Whoopsie! Wrong thread.

This post was edited by october17 on Wed, Nov 13, 13 at 5:34


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Well, don't anyboy whine the next time the food stamp system goes down and every store in the country turns them away.

Because then, no one can run around and point the finger at the store that tried to help.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Then we get the usual fixation on recipients popping out babies as per Nik's statement above.
There are approximately 45.8 million snap recipients in around 15 million households. Of that 45.8 million 49% are children(22.44 million) the average benefit(varies by state) is $133 with the average household receiving $289. No where in these numbers is there much room for households of 6,8,15 children. In fact the average household has about 3 people.
Or from other sources approximately 76% of the household have either children, disabled or elderly persons-I didn't find it broken out by just kids-still that makes 11.4 households potentially having children and the average household has 3 people and so on and so on and so on. The the baby mama with her hordes of insufficient looking children is in fact a rarity. They are the people you remember-the ones that stand out for you but they do not represent the norm.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

patriciae: "The the baby mama with her hordes of insufficient looking children is in fact a rarity."

Absolutely not a rarity in Chicago. May be where you live.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Because then, no one can run around and point the finger at the store that tried to help.

What???? So now Walmart did not follow its own protocol for this kind of occurrence for charitable reasons? Oh good grief...that's incredibly naive.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

"Then we get the usual fixation on recipients popping out babies as per Nik's statement above."

Hey, you said it. "Of that 45.8 million 49% are children(22.44 million)"

Where do you think those 22.44 million children came from? The stork doesn't bring them, and it takes more than a few women having "birth control failures" to produce 22.44 million children they can't afford to feed.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

I simply cannot imagine what it must be like to spend so much of every day so angry and so bitter about so much.........


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

and it takes more than a few women having "birth control failures" to produce 22.44 million children they can't afford to feed.

Oh, good grief!

We're in the tail end of the Great Recession which had record high unemployment since the Great Depression. Many of these women, if not most, gave birth when they could afford to feed and clothe their children.

This ahistorical mind set could drive a sane person crazy.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

"Many of these women, if not most, gave birth when they could afford to feed and clothe their children."

Disagree, nancy. I worked in DSS in the 80's as a AFDC/MA/Food Stamps caseworker. Most my caseload, which was heavy, was single mothers with mulltiple children, and these mothers were jobless; before, during, and after their children were dependant. I had 2 success stories that I can recall (and believe me, these stand out).

One now works for the same employer that I work for, and the other got married, then managed to get through nursing school. I still know them both.

"This ahistorical mind set could drive a sane person crazy."

Nancy, you actually have no idea, so don't take this personally. You are the one with an ahistorical memory.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Just because you had an experience 30 years ago, elvis, doesn't mean that that's how it is today. It would be ridiculous to draw conclusions from the ancient history of your work experience.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Meow; nasty little claws.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

I calls them as I sees them. Your 30 years old work experience is irrelevant to the conversation.


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A major problem of our times starkly revealed

'I calls them as I sees them. Your 30 years old work experience is irrelevant to the conversation. '

Your mindlessly ageist comment reveals you to be less politically correct than you think you are.

Of course Elvis's input is still relevent. Not only does human nature rarely change, but the welfare problem has become generational in this country, due largely to nonthinking policies supported by people like you, who would rather respond in self righteous, nonthinking fashion and delude yourself in feeling morally superior than to get it right. Not to mention, downright rude.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Of course Elvis's input is still relevent.

Her input is anecdotal, out of date, and likely has little to do with national trends.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

So we are going to rely on elvis' anecdotes from 30 years ago to draw a conclusion about food stamp fraud today. You go right ahead. I prefer more scientific methods myself.

As far as rude goes, it's okay for elvis to refer to "my nasty little claws" and then you call me rude?


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

Posted by elvis 4b WI (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 13, 13 at 22:53

"Many of these women, if not most, gave birth when they could afford to feed and clothe their children."

Disagree, nancy. I worked in DSS in the 80's as a AFDC/MA/Food Stamps caseworker.

*

Good Luck, Elvis, I too haven been informed by many that so much has changed since I worked for the government and that I have no idea what I am talking about--by people that never worked in my job or even for the branch of government that I did, or that you did, in the first place. Actually, by some people that haven't worked in years at much of anything, and by some that will always be drones.

Strange to be attacked for having been there done that instead of doing it right now--as though what you said is a lie or totally irrelevant.

Actually it's not strange when people are grasping at straws to discredit you and distract from the truth of the matter.

Thanks Eibren for your post:

" Posted by eibren z6PA (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 13, 13 at 23:36

'I calls them as I sees them. Your 30 years old work experience is irrelevant to the conversation. '

Your mindlessly ageist comment reveals you to be less politically correct than you think you are.

Of course Elvis's input is still relevent. Not only does human nature rarely change, but the welfare problem has become generational in this country, due largely to nonthinking policies supported by people like you, who would rather respond in self righteous, nonthinking fashion and delude yourself in feeling morally superior than to get it right. Not to mention, downright rude."

By the way Elvis, thanks for your service to the government trying to solve the ills of our society--lack of personal responsibility, brought to you and perpetuated by the Democrat Party.

*

Wednesday, Governor Bobby Jindal moved to STRIP some of the thieving

food stamp recipients of their cards:

"Violators can expect to get a letter about disqualification along with an offer to appeal through an administrative hearing.

Anyone who waives or loses an appeal will lose food stamp benefits for as little as a year and as much as permanently depending on the number of prior offenses."--The Advocate Nov 7, 2013

This post was edited by demifloyd on Thu, Nov 14, 13 at 0:03


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

By the way Elvis, thanks for your service to the government trying to solve the ills or our society--lack of personal responsibility, brought to you and perpetuated by the Democrat Party.

Now I am going to puke.

Your mindlessly ageist comment reveals you to be less politically correct than you think you are.

That's really rich especially coming from possibly the most politically incorrect person here.

This post was edited by jerzeegirl on Thu, Nov 14, 13 at 0:15


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

I worked in DSS in the 80's as a AFDC/MA/Food Stamps caseworker. Most my caseload, which was heavy, was single mothers with mulltiple children, and these mothers were jobless; before, during, and after their children were dependant

It used to be that way when some of our relatives worked for DSS in 3 local counties.

When they made cash welfare recipients participate in workfare, most took part-time jobs to avoid the job search, job training and work requirements.

We currently employ well over a dozen poor single mothers with kids (varies substantially week-to-week) - 100% of which work very low part-time flex hours.


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I didn't make up my numbers. I went to several website that give statistics on welfare programs.
The average American household with children has 2 and the average family on assistance has 2
This is not to say that there aren't families with 7 but they average out. You remember the ones with all the kids and the feckless folk who don't ever seem to do better but governments keep records and other organizations keep statistics and you can look this stuff up for yourself if you don't believe me. I dare you.

No one but a total idiot has a baby to score $133 a month and if they are that impaired then they need all the help they can get.


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"I simply cannot imagine what it must be like to spend so much of every day so angry and so bitter about so much........"

You are wrongly imputing emotion to factual response. There is no way birth control failures resulted in the 22.44 million children in need of food the government must provide for them. Stay with me, and don't get distracted by your own emotions.

22.44 million children exceed the population of New York State, the third most populous state in our nation. That none of these children have an adult in their lives capable of meeting even their most basic need for three meals a day tells me we have a massive population of dysfunctional adults driving the problem and reproducing at an alarming rate.

As Eibren points out, human nature explains what she observed, and human nature hasn't changed. As my Citadel grad likes to say, keep doing what you're doing, keep getting what you're getting.


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Believe me Nik my observation is not based on that one post, this one thread, or even the last ten.


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RE: Thieves' food stamp benefits to be cut

demi - The only thing that has changed since the 80s is the outrageous sense of entitlement. Oh, and the gaming of the whole system. It's probably 100 times worse now.

You can see that entitlement mentality in lots of folks right here.


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