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Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

Posted by jasonmi7 low-earth orbit (My Page) on
Wed, Dec 17, 08 at 9:25

Interesting how the economy is also affecting Honda, et. al., despite many peoples' assertations of how 'well' they're doing. I also found Fukui's remark that the Big Three should be given a loan to be intelligent. Both Fukui and Toyota's president have long said that the collapse of Big Three would have devestating consequences to all the auto companies.

Here is a link that might be useful: Honda slashes production.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

I just purchased a Honda, after I got the run around at my Chrysler dealer, after I had leased 3 vehicles from Chrysler......how much money did I hand over to them over 9 years?
3 times I went to my dealership and could not get a good deal
I finally had enough and went to Honda and purchased the car!
Good investment, good sales experience, good deal

Fukui said:
"It is best that they return to SOUND HEALTH"

Exactly, they have been losing money for years and any bailout will just delay the inevitable
throwing capital (tax dollars) at an industry that has made 0, zip, is not a SOUND investment, period
I'm obviously biased and angry at my experience with one of the Big 3


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RE: Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

Just heard that Toyota has reduced its production in the US due to the slump. Still not looking for a bailout as they can evidently weather a downturn whereas the Big 3 have too many legacy benefits to pay out that they never funded properly...


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RE: Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

A good New Years resolution for those thinking of purchasing a new auto in 2009 would be buy only from our US automakers.
Boycott the foreign brands, especially autos. That is the best way to express your patriotism in 2009 and support our middle class.

Personally, I am also swearing off any manufactured products that come from the Southern States. The Southern Senators gave us the finger when our auto industry begged for money to save our Northern manufacturing base, so if they think we will buy foreign products, even those slapped together in foreign owned assembly plants down in Dixie, forget it.


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RE: Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

Last I checked, Toyota USA, Honda USA, BMW USA etc etc were incorporated to do business in the USA and are US automakers. The legally established companies pay US income taxes, they hired US citizens to work for them, those US citizens are paid wages to build the vehicles, and they produced vehicles, which when sold, contributed to sales and other licensing tax collections in their municipalities. These are American subsidiaries of foreign owned companies. They are US automakers.

And when you hose those companies, workers and the municipalities they reside in, you are also saying tough bananas to the local hospitals, libraries and other public entities which are funded from the activity of those companies and workers.

Does anyone really understand what a global economy means?


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Heri cles I liked the first half of your post very much. But who do you want to hurt by your boycott of southern products? I thought the workers for the northern plants were the ones people most regretted seeing hurt. Southern workers are not southern senators and most don't own the factory. Even if they voted for those senators, they might not be 100% or even 51% aligned with their policies. People choose from who is available..they aren't in control of their politicians so much that anyone southern deserves to suffer. Anyway plenty of people in those plants are Democrats I'm sure if those are the only ones that might matter.


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RE: Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

patser......I hear you , I've been trying to make the same point for some time but was a dismal failure in articulating the issue. Thank you for expressing it in such a clear way.

In Canada one could say all the auto manufacturing was "foreign" including the Detroit Three. The fact is the auto industry is multinational and ownership is international, there is no such thing as an American auto industry.

I could care a less where head office is as long as the upshot is solid Canadian jobs.


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If I was going to suggest a New Years resolution, I'd suggest something like...Might potential car buyers honestly do their homework when comparing cars. Then, after having reviewed ALL available data, make the purchase decision. Do not just go on reputation.

To me, that makes more sense.

Chase, I've gotten your point all along and I agree with you about head office location. If one company in one industry in one country has problems, it has worldwide implications.


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RE: Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

The content of all cars be they foreign or domestic have parts from all over the world in them , hence the connection to the health of the japanese parts manufacturers and their vehicles assembled in this country . Parts for some U.S. vehicles are foreign made and foreign brands have U.S. parts in them , particularly the ones assembled in the U.S. It's a circle of interdependency that would be broken if the U.S. auto industry goes under .

Here is a link that might be useful: What makes a car american ?


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RE: Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

  • Posted by spewey I have the flu (My Page) on
    Wed, Dec 17, 08 at 22:43

A good New Years resolution for those thinking of purchasing a new auto in 2009 would be buy only from our US automakers. Boycott the foreign brands, especially autos. That is the best way to express your patriotism in 2009 and support our middle class.

Many "foreign" companies are U.S. automakers. I'd consider it quite patriotic to buy a car made in my own state of Tennessee by Tennessee workers, no matter where the company is headquartered.

The fact is the auto industry is multinational and ownership is international, there is no such thing as an American auto industry.

While the overwhelming majority of stock in the Big Three is held by Americans, it is true they have plants elsewhere and some stockholders abroad. They are multinational companies, as we all know down here.


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RE: Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

With the jump in fuel prices this summer there was a big spike in foreign car sales.
Now all sales are nose-diving.


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RE: Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

There was also a big spike in smaller Big 3 cars.

"Personally, I am also swearing off any manufactured products that come from the Southern States."

I think this is an interesting statement, and one that brings up something I was thinking of the other day. In looking at the actual voting on these loan bills, it seems to be split North/South, as opposed to the usual Repub/Dem. I wonder if we're not setting up a new partinsanship where not only are there party-line votes, but also regional-line votes. I can see the next calamity where people say "Well, you didn't vote to save the auto comapnies, we're not going to vote to provide funds to rebuild XXXXX after XXXX storm."

Interesting world that's suddenly turning.


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RE: Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

I was thinking about posts here some time ago ...

Yes, it is true that the auto plants are in the south, and the southern senators have made it there mission to deplete the northern states (Michigan, Ohio etc) of manufacturing.

Remember the posts on 'drought' ?

Guess what we have... WATER! I see this area of the country recovering in the future as the west,southwest and southeast run out of water.

Just ramblin...


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If we northern states cannot get our collective acts together and figure out that, not only do we not have friendly weather climates, we also do not have friendly business climates, then we are doomed to further erosion of business and innovation.

All the water in the world won't change that. I'm not disagreeing with Ohiomom, but the reality is it's going to take more than transient droughts to make businesses turn tail and head (back) north.

We have dug our own graves by making it increasingly difficult for manufacturers, innovators, and transporters to prosper in our states.

It's costly to heat a physical plant during the winter, equip transport cars/trucks with snow tires for the season, pay for snow removal, have reliable employee attendence during snowstorms. Add on the higher maintenance costs to buildings and vehicles due to the wear and tear of winter.

We have lined our own caskets by having high taxes, hyper-regulation and a high cost of living. Here in NYS, one of the big issues that was to be discussed before the Spitzer self-inflicted debaucle was the "brain drain", wherein people were getting educated here and then leaving the state to go where the cost of living is lower and job opportunities are better.

All of these liabilities have made it very difficult to thrive in such an environment. And people are leaving in droves.

In NYS we tax business inventory -- those are goods that are produced and ordered but have not yet been sold to the customer. Then they're taxed again when purchased. Some states don't tax inventory, so why not go to one of them?

This morning I was just talking to another small business owner who is in the process of changing the residency of his business to a southern state, where he lives during the winter. The benefits of doing so far outweigh the costs.

For example, we make our businesses pay taxes on health care products for employees, then we tax (again) the health care services that are provided. On top of that, we also tax the copay. And there's talk that those fees (which is supposed to be a nicer word than "taxes") are going up again.

We pay one of the highest rates for electricity in the country. It takes a lot of electricity to manufacture, build, and provide a good environment for employees. Why pay it here when you can pay less elsewhere?

Seriously, most of the northern states are abusive to all their taxpayers, whether they are running businesses or simply employees. I still think that staying in a state that finds it so easy to choke down its own people is like staying in a relationship with an abusive spouse.

This is reflected in the population decline. Upstate NY has lost about a million people since the last census. Pretty soon, if not in 2010, Florida will have more people and more electoral votes. If that doesn't tell us something then I don't know what does.

Unfortunately, our legislators have not yet set aside any money to buy themselves a clue.


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I see Bush has decided to not approve part of the money in his breathless Wall Street bail-out for the auto companies. He prefers that they go bankrupt. Merry Christmas Michigan, from Bush. Don't worry though, Sarah and Todd still want to go down now there, especially since McCain isn't stopping them any longer.

Global economy? In the auto industry sense as it has been discussed here this means that we will no longer own our auto manufacturers but that we will allow foreign companies to operate in Southern States through subsidiary US corporations and employ Southerners for non-union labor jobs. That's not OK with a lot of people who believe that the US must maintain our US owned manufacturing base as the backbone of our economic system and as a mechanism of our national security. If we go to war and need parts for bombers, Jeeps, tanks, etc.,,which "Global" supplier do you want to count on? Didn't any of your parents or grandparents work making munitions, tanks, airplanes, Jeeps, etc during WWII? Do we really want to all but eliminate our manufacturing base and the opportunity for work and survival that they provide to a large segment of our society?

This is North vs. South on a variety of fronts,,, from the way the majority in the South view race, religion, social issues, and most recently, this war against organized labor.

I am going to try to put pressure on a few people around my neighborhood who insist on flying Confederate flags to take them down. Yes, I am beginning to really dislike the South and a lot of Southerners too. I'm even swearin' off country music for the New Year. I will still listen to some old country influenced rock that I grew up with, but other than that stuff, no more twang for me.


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RE: Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

  • Posted by spewey I have the flu (My Page) on
    Thu, Dec 18, 08 at 15:51

f we go to war and need parts for bombers, Jeeps, tanks, etc.,,which "Global" supplier do you want to count on?

I've had enough of us "going to war" to last a lifetime. There hasn't been a single war in the last four decades or so I supported. What a lame reason to support our failed auto industry.

Didn't any of your parents or grandparents work making munitions, tanks, airplanes, Jeeps, etc during WWII?

No. They didn't. They served in other ways.

Do we really want to all but eliminate our manufacturing base and the opportunity for work and survival that they provide to a large segment of our society?

We've managed to land quite a few new manufacturing plants lately, including a $1.2 billion solar industry company expansion last week. It's a relatively healthy part of our state's economy, though we know not to let manufacturing dominate our economy.


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RE: Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

  • Posted by bboy z8 WA USA (My Page) on
    Thu, Dec 18, 08 at 23:52

As far as the domestic auto industry in concerned the dye was cast when our fearless leaders in government and industry decided massive exporting of jobs was a good move.

Guess it's time for everyone to ride the bus. Hopefully one that takes them to a job that will pay all of their bills.


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RE: Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

"This is North vs. South on a variety of fronts,,, from the way the majority in the South view race, religion, social issues, and most recently, this war against organized labor."

Statements that you make about the south utterly amaze me. Here in Louisiana we have an unemployment rate at about 5%, we are among the lowest foreclosure rates in the country. Unions are alive and well in this state. New Orleans alone has had a black mayor since 1970. You will find many southern cities have black mayors, councilmen, and representatives. Any "racial problems" are the same as anywhere in the entire country. I promise you, there are as many ignorant people living in the north as there are living in the south. I have no clue what you are referring to as far as social and religion.

No one wants to see the auto industry fail. But it's hard to find two people who can agree on how to save it. Chapter 11 or bailout? I admit that I don't have a clue. And it doesn't seem like anyone else can say with any surety. Wouldn't it be better to know the answer to this question before going forward?


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Hericles, The last time the US had a purely domestic auto industry was about 1920, right around the time that the US big 3 expanded into Europe. And since you can also get a mortgage, student loans, credit card from the domestic big 3 auto companies, I'd say they also happen to make autos while running finance businesses.

And, god forbid, if this country ever goes into a huge war again, components for all defense related materials are made overseas, too, no matter where the head office is located.

And mrskjun, the only certainty will come in hindsight.


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"No one wants to see the auto industry fail. But it's hard to find two people who can agree on how to save it. "

I must admit that I'm a little perplexed at the vehemence with which people both here and across the country seem to be fighting this. The US auto industry is asking for a 15 billion dollar loan; not a bailout or a handout. It will cost, far, far, far more than that should they go belly up.


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No suprise there

*snicker*

Just saw the latest numbers for car sales. The number one and two best selling vehicles in the U.S. this year? The Ford F150 and Chevy Silverado. #6 is the Civic, followed by the Ford Focus.


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RE: Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

No way, Jason!!!! Americans are buying gas guzzlers??? I guess the pocketbook speaks differently than the big old trap on the front of the face (she says very cynically).


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Funny, isn't it.

Well, the reality is that there is a huge, huge pent-up demand for trucks in this country; people are buying the vehicles they need for business and work, even if they aren't buying them for themselves. When I was in business, we bought a new truck every year, but with the economy what it has been, I know many busineses have put off those purchases for two-three years, so they are past due.

Generally, most businesses buy American-made light trucks and vans.


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RE: Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

Is it true that Honda had trouble on the last quarter of 2010? I just read that they're not doing well and most of their consumers had a lot of complaints about recalls etc.


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I have my 3 month old Honda fit. And I'm having a lot of trouble with it lately. It already had several car repair considering that it's a brand new car when I got it. It seems like Honda is really affected by the economy. I've read a lot of complaints about them lately.


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RE: Big Three Foreign Automakers in trouble

he Big Three automakers are taking a page out of their unions' playbooks as they deploy grassroots tactics to drum up public support for the proposed $25 billion auto industry bailout, which is on precarious ground in Washington, D.C.All vehicles and light trucks may have met a 56.2 m.p.g. requirement by 2025. The Obama administration met with the large three car manufacturers a week ago to talk about an opportunity. While the strategy would boost the price of cars, supports say it will be made up by consumers in reduced gas expenses. But some say the plan is too ambitious.I think the Obama administration has good reasons why they came up with this new policy.For sure, there's still a lot to talk about this policy. You may want a payday loan for a new car soon to avoid the extra high prices that may start.

Here is a link that might be useful: payday loan


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