Return to the Hot Topics Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Posted by hamiltongardener CAN 6a (My Page) on
Sat, Dec 1, 12 at 11:15

Following his contentious Christmas debate with Atheists for America President David Silverman on Wednesday night, Fox News' Bill O'Reilly confronted Rhode Island Governor Lincoln Chafee on Thursday over his decision to rename the state's Christmas Tree a "holiday tree" as a gesture of political correctness in "changing times."

While Chafee accused O'Reilly of trying to start a controversy where there wasn't one, the Fox News host said he was the one starting controversy by trying to "impose his will" on the residents of his state.

"I just want our traditions to be respected that's all," O'Reilly said.

Chafee also told O�Reilly that everyone on Fox News is "too angry" before wishing him a Merry Christmas.

Here is a link that might be useful: Holiday Tree


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Bill O'Reilly's bread and butter. Beat that dead horse, good for ratings.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Yes, O'Reilly's the four-star general in this annual battle against the "left loons" who negate our traditions. LOL!

Maybe there's a nascent book in there to stocking stuff along with Killing Kennedy and Killing Lincoln. Killing Christmas, perhaps?


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Any place but Faux News and it would be mildly interesting. Now that they lost the election, I guess they are casting about for outrage.

A tree, lighted or not lighted, has NOTHING to do with the birth of Jesus.

I'm annoyed at the War on Thanksgiving, Thanksgiving is lost in the cacophony of noise for that December holiday. Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday, and I wish we paid more attention to it. It's an American holiday and has ties to the founding of this country.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Mom, that is one of the reasons I am "thankful" that our Thanksgiving is early in the Fall. It allows enough time between both holidays so that they can be celebrated without clashing. More importantly I can reasonably serve Turkey at both feasts ;)

It seems to me that the American Thanksgiving is all about Christmas and that's too bad.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

I'm annoyed at the War on Thanksgiving, Thanksgiving is lost in the cacophony of noise for that December holiday. Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday, and I wish we paid more attention to it. It's an American holiday and has ties to the founding of this country.


This much, you and I can agree on. It bothers me to no end to see Christmas displays during the Labor Day sales, and this past Thanksgiving, it pissed me off to see stores demanding that their employees leave their families on a day that's meant for families to be together, just for the almighty dollar.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Maine didn't allow stores to be open on Thanksgiving day or evening, did we Bill? (I'm so out of it I never checked.)


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

O'Reilly will have to extend his Christmas stuff for another week or more. Surely he's gotten wind of Benedict XVI's "mythbuster" to the things we've come to know and love - some of us anyway. Most of us do know we got the date wrong, but are we ready for no Angelic choirs or animals at the stable/nativity scene?

O'Reilly and his Fox crew ( Warriors Judge Jeanine & Gretchen Carlson) could be on their way to the Vatican right now. His 15 years of Wars on Christmas can't be blown away by a mere Pope. This might get Gov. Chafee off the immediate hook.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Bill O'Reilly's bread and butter. Beat that dead horse, good for ratings.

He needs something to spew from Bulls##t mountain. The end of the election came and now...tis the season.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Maybe we should make manditory that anyone that wants to celebrate The Christ Child's Birth, would also have to swear to follow his teachings.

Or at least, the Old Testament teaching. "Honor the Sabbath and Keep it Holy." That should cut down on the Christmas Shopping.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

CP-- no, we stuck to the blue laws.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

But then, there's our town's Festival of Lights. At 33 seconds, You'll see me and Lukas coming up the middle of the street. :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Dat me


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Can't see it, Bill :O


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Don't know what's up-- I just clicked on the link and it works for me.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

The "war on Christmas" is all in their minds. Christmas is alive and well, especially when it comes to making money off it.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

I saw ya, Bill. :-)

No blinking LED lights on the leash and collar? Maybe thats just a Colorado Christmas parade dog thing.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

None of them are complaining bout the Pope debunking the mythic Christmas


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Festival of Lights is a Christmas celebration in Maine?

Local Hanukkah celebrations are called 'Festival of Lights' and feature public lighting of Menorahs - usually sponsored by Chabad.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

The link worked fine. I love the dog.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Bill - great pup! Looks like you're getting about the same snow over there as we are. Been steady all day today for the first time this year.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Nancy-- it's a Christmas celebration here in Bridgton, Maine.

David-- No, no lites on the dog. :-)

CP-- same here. light, but steady.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Love your pup, Bill.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

I've discovered that the war on Christmas is great. One of those things that proves God uses all things for His purpose. Seems that it has made more people reflect on the meaning of Christmas and more and more are celebrating the birth of Christ.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

There you go, mrskjun. Every thing has a reason.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

God speaks to everyone--agnostics and atheists as well.

It is our choice to listen or not.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

"I've discovered that the war on Christmas is great. One of those things that proves God uses all things for His purpose. Seems that it has made more people reflect on the meaning of Christmas and more and more are celebrating the birth of Christ."

"There you go, mrskjun. Every thing has a reason."

"God speaks to everyone--agnostics and atheists as well.
It is our choice to listen or not."

--------------

Amen to that. :)


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

I'm going to copy and paste something that I shared here several years ago, and just posted to my FB page yesterday. Those of you who ARE believers, should really take heed:

Dear Children,
It has come to my attention that many of you are upset that folks are taking My name out of the season.
How I personally feel about this celebration can probably be most easily understood by those of you who have been blessed with children of your own. I don't care what you call the day.
If you want to celebrate My birth, just GET ALONG AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER.
Now, having said that let Me go on. If it bothers you that the town in which you live doesn't allow a scene depicting My birth, then just get rid of a couple of Santas and snowmen and put in a small Nativity scene on your own front lawn. If all My followers did that there wouldn't be any need for such a scene on the town square because there would be many of them all around town.
Stop worrying about the fact that people are calling the tree a holiday tree, instead of a Christmas tree. It was I who made all trees. You can remember Me anytime you see any tree. Decorate a grape vine if you wish: I actually spoke of that one in a teaching, explaining who I am in relation to you and what each of our tasks were. If you have forgotten that one, look up John 15:1 - 8.
If you want to give Me a present in remembrance of My birth here is my wish list. Choose something from it:
1. Instead of writing protest letters objecting to the way My birthday is being celebrated, write letters of love and hope to soldiers away from home. They are terribly afraid and lonely this time of year. I know; they tell Me all the time.
2. Visit someone in a nursing home. You don't have to know them personally. They just need to know that someone cares about them.
3. Instead of writing George complaining about the wording on the cards his staff sent out this year, why don't you write and tell him that you'll be praying for him and his family this year. Then follow up. It will be nice hearing from you again.
4. Instead of giving your children a lot of gifts you can't afford and they don't need, spend time with them. Tell them the story of My birth, and why I came to live with you down here. Hold them in your arms and remind them that I love them.
>
5. Pick someone that has hurt you in the past and forgive him or her.
6. Did you know that someone in your town will attempt to take their own life this season because they feel so alone and hopeless? Since you don't know who that person is, try giving everyone you meet a warm smile; it could make the difference.
7. Instead of nit picking about what the retailer in your town calls the holiday, be patient with the people who work there. Give them a warm smile and a kind word. Even if they aren't allowed to wish you a 'Merry Christmas' that doesn't keep you from wishing them one. Then stop shopping there on Sunday. If the store didn't make so much money on that day they'd close and let their employees spend the day at home with their families.
8. If you really want to make a difference, support a missionary--especially one who takes My love and Good News to those who have never heard My
name.
9. Here's a good one There are individuals and whole families in your town who not only will have no 'Christmas' tree, but neither will they have any presents to give or receive. If you don't know them, buy some food and a few gifts and give them to the Salvation Army or some other charity which believes in Me and they will make the delivery for you.
10. Finally, if you want to make a statement about your belief in and l
oyalty to Me, then behave like a Christian. Don't do things in secret that you wouldn't do in My presence.

Let people know by your actions (rather than your words) that you are one of mine.
Don't forget; I am God and can take care of Myself.
Just love Me and do what I have told you to do. I'll take care of all the rest.
Check out the list above and get to work; time is short. I'll help you, but the ball is now in your court. And do have a most blessed Christmas with all those whom you love and remember:
I LOVE YOU,
JESUS


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Let people know by your actions (rather than your words) that you are one of Mine.

More than any other line in that whole disertation, I wish more Christians would take this one to heart.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

if you want to make a statement about your belief in and loyalty to Me, then behave like a Christian. Don't do things in secret that you wouldn't do in My presence.

I like this one.

Of course, some have become so bold that they are willing to propose and approve things that go against their teachings in public, like the Ryan budget.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Bill, thanks for the post!


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Yes, Bill; wonderful post---thanks from me, too. :)


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Mon, Dec 3, 12 at 10:00


...I tried to resist the temptation but as long as the imaginary war on Xmas is pushed every year by Fox and associates I'll continue to expose it's classic origins. Shame on O'Reilly for not doing the investigative journalism. Yes Bill, let's take our country back!


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Sing it, Bing!!

"Happy holiday, happy holiday
May the calendar keep bringing
Happy holidays to you

chorus:

Happy Holiday
Happy holiday, happy holiday
While the merry bells keep ringing
May your ev'ry wish come true

Come To Holiday Inn
If you're burdened down with trouble
If your nerves are wearing thin
Park your load down the road
And come to Holiday Inn

If the traffic noise affects you
Like a squeaky violin
Kick your cares down the stairs
And come to Holiday Inn

If you can't find someone who
Would set your heart a-whirl
Take your car and motor to
The home of boy meets girl

If you're laid-up with a breakdown
Throw away your vitamin
Don't get worse, grab your nurse
And come to Holiday Inn "

/whats this with the Holiday Inn?


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

When atheists and agnostics celebrate Christmas, what are they celebrating?


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Togetherness, selfless giving, and mercy towards goodness for all mankind are what they celebrate. Isn't it?


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

I would guess they're celebrating not having to celebrate Christmas by attaching any special meaning to it beyond maybe spending time with family and friends - if that.

It is torture - even to believers - listening to anyone's and everyone's version of Little Drummer Boy (second only to Jingle Bell Rock).


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

That stuff is great. Do you need a designated day or season to behave that way?

...so folks appropriate and exploit the appealing celebratory trappings of a religious event, reject the original meaning, and then become upset when those observing the true meaning remind them of that meaning?

If folks want a secular holiday, they should invent one.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

They have. See link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: We already air our grievances


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

It is torture - even to believers - listening to anyone's and everyone's version of Little Drummer Boy

Dogs barking out Jingle Bells is the perfect antidote.

Factoid that I just learned:

The Singing Dogs, however, hit # 22 on the Billboard chart in 1955 (it reached an even higher position upon re-release in 1971). How 'Jingle Bells' by the Singing Dogs Changed Music Forever

I'm fickle and have jettisoned the seasonal barkathon for gobbling on cue -- Jukebox: A Choir of Turkeys


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Do you need a designated day or season to behave that way?

Do Christians? Face it, the day and the prep leading up to it are huge. For example, my son's birthday is Dec 23 ... Christmas time provides the greatest selection of toys and the best prices. My daughter's birthday is Jan 5. We bought all of their presents then and got great selection and prices.

Then there's peer pressure ... between Christmas and Hannukah, there's a whole lotta present giving going on, businesses give you the day off, charities are begging for money, year end charitable giving is in the air ... just a good time to play along if you feel so inclined rather than invent a holiday at some other time that doesn't have all those perks (good sales, day off, etc.). Not that I don't give money to charities at other times, I do, but this just revs it up.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Question: Since Jesus was born in the fall or late summer (most likely, anyway, as He obviously didn't think it was important enough to spell out the exact date in the Bible and thought we'd be intelligent enough to discern that shepherds wouldn't be out sleeping with their flock in the dead of winter, nor would there be a census taken at that time of year) what are Christians doing celebrating his birth on a documented pagan holiday and encouraging their children to worship a guy in a fat suit (with no mention of his evil Black helper Peter) slinging excess while pretending it has nothing to do with pagan tradition of the god Odin and his eight legged high leaping horse Sleipnir?

Celebrate as you like, I'm all for a good holiday celebration. And I say Merry Christmas back to anyone who says it to me first. But please, do not make a mockery of Christ by pretending it's about His Birthday when really it's about getting converts over from paganism by stealing the yule log, misappropriating the tree, shoving poor Isis' son out of the way (sorry boy, there's a new kid in town) and lying to children. And it's not "American" either, the founders of this country considered Christmas to be pagan and inappropriate for Christians. Constantine simply didn't want to miss out on his winter party, so he changed the name of Mithra to Jesus and kept on celebrating. It doesn't matter, right? If you have made a big party for your mother, and she can't make it... just change it to your mother-in-law's name. Nobody cares ;)

I'd like to know how many are celebrating the Last Supper with bread and wine this year? How about Passover? Anyone? Because Christ COMMANDED us to commemorate these significant days and blatantly says not to pay attention to the celebrations of others.

The older I get, the more I respect Jehovah's Witnesses. Sure, they REALLY think homosexuals should be stoned to death. That's pretty archaic and brutal for me to wrap my head around and is disturbing and horrifying and just plain wrong. But at least they're doing their best to follow their book of their God. These dime store, sanctimonious, absurdly and patently false exhibitions of "Christianity" that are displayed like so many painted store windows at this time of year are bizarre and even more frightening because of the absolute refusal to see the truth.

You can't put the "Christ" back in Christmas because he wasn't there to begin with, except by Catholic Church who made a "deal with the devil" to get more converts by letting them keep their holiday and convert too. Don't bicker over who was here first or who has more of a right to celebrate or who can tell whom what salutation. It's trivial and it makes a person look ignorant.

I agree with Bill's post. If you're really gonna celebrate that Jesus was born, try reading a bit about the guy and then trying to do as he would have done. Go feed someone, go help someone, put yourself publicly as an equal to the lowest in your community and encourage others to commune and help the less fortunate.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

It is torture - even to believers - listening to anyone's and everyone's version of Little Drummer Boy

I beg to differ. I like the Bing Crosby/David Bowie version

Here is a link that might be useful: Bing and Bowie Drummer Boy


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Paaaaa Ruuuuummmmmp pa pa pum,
Ruuuuummmmmp pa pa pum,
Ruuuuummmmm pa pa pum

Nah, Jingle Bell Rock is worse.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

"Dogs barking out Jingle Bells is the perfect antidote"

Are these the same dogs who play poker and sit for paintings?


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

If folks want a secular holiday, they should invent one.

Really? So now "non-believers" aren't allowed to celebrate the holidays at all? Sounds like you skipped over Bill's post all together....

My kids believe in Santa Claus. That's good enough for me.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

"...so folks appropriate and exploit the appealing celebratory trappings of a religious event, reject the original meaning, and then become upset when those observing the true meaning remind them of that meaning?"

Yeah, I've noticed Christians doing that too Purple!!!


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

When atheists and agnostics celebrate Christmas, what are they celebrating?

A day off work.

I'll celebrate ANYONE'S holiday if it will get me a day off work and a nice dinner.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

It is torture - even to believers - listening to anyone's and everyone's version of Little Drummer Boy
I beg to differ. I like the Bing Crosby/David Bowie version

So do I. In fact, I haven't heard too many versions I DIDN'T like. Might have something to do with my playing drums for my church's band when I was a kid.

Below is a youtube video of a flash mob at a mall singing the Hallelujah Chorus. I get goose bumps every time I watch it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Flash Mob


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

That was so wonderful bill. Thank you!


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Song from '58

Here is a link that might be useful: Ol' Fatso by Augie Rios


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

On the first day of Christmas, my true love gave to me:

Photobucket


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

What a nice image to honor the Prince of Peace.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Oh, give it a rest, Nancy. Freakin humbug.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Not funny, Bill. We are supposed to be celebrating the birth of the Prince of Peace. Perhaps you don't take that title seriously, but others do.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Our Holiday Tree has been regifted this year as it started last year with our new governor who will probably not be regifted for a second term...


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Tue, Dec 4, 12 at 9:21

Hey Bill, that tree's bite is worse than it's bark!...groan...


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Bill, I loved your cartridge in a bare tree!~ :)


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Same kind of "love" as for the Dear Children... seasonal chain?


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

What a great thread! SO many interesting replies!

IMO these are priceless:

"Bill O'Reilly's bread and butter. Beat that dead horse, good for ratings."~David52

"Yes, O'Reilly's the four-star general in this annual battle...Maybe there's a nascent book in there to stocking stuff along with Killing Kennedy and Killing Lincoln. Killing Christmas, perhaps?"~Duluthinbloom

"Any place but Faux News and it would be mildly interesting.... a tree, lighted or not lighted, has NOTHING to do with the birth of Jesus. I'm annoyed at the War on Thanksgiving...I wish we paid more attention to it."~Momj47

Indeed, decorating with trees, & lights & such is a secular tradition. Decking the halls- fun, festive & fabulous as that may be, is not a religious practice. In fact, the religious spirit of the season for many Christians (ostensibly, including O'Reilly, btw, who was raised Catholic) is expressed through the observation of the season of Advent, which began this past Sunday. It is a somewhat penitential time (not as much so as Lent, but still, somewhat).

Brightly shining lights on trees & elsewhere are theoretically a no-no right now. Flashy stuff is simply not in keeping with the somber, reflective mood of Advent.

There is Gaudete Sunday (third week) when we light the rose colored candle & let our hair down a bit, but generally, we are supposed to quietly, intentionally, thoughtfully build toward the arrival of the light of the world on Christmas day during the weeks of Advent.

Doesn't O'Reilly realize that? What must the nuns be thinking? He should be demanding silence & reflection right now, LOL!


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Have you ever thought, what if this is the last Christmas I will celebrate on this earth. So, how do I want to celebrate it? I know how it will be for me and mine and hope the rest of you celebrate it in the way that will make you most happy.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

I loved Jon Stewart's take on the War on Christmas this year. Paraphrasing: "Christmas has become so big that it has taken over Thanksgiving! Watch your back Halloween, you're next."

How can there be a war on Christmas when it lasts from Thanksgiving Day (now) until January 6th? There is no bigger holiday. Decorations abound - every store is decorated!

Here is a link that might be useful: Jon Stewart


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Love Jon Stewart!
Agnespuffin, your first paragraph on Dec 1st at 1600 - couldn't agree more.

If the Bible was accurate in the details about the life and teachings about the man who was known as Jesus of Nazareth and if Jesus was the Son of God as he proclaimed to be, I would imagine he would also completely agree with your first paragraph, too.

On that idea - I'd bet Santa isn't the ONLY all-knowing one who is making a list and checking it twice! ;)


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Flashy stuff is simply not in keeping with the somber, reflective mood of Advent.

Thank you, stinky!


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Nice thought mylab, but the problems could be coming in when someone says they're "following the bible", but they're really only following what they're told what it says. Why? That can be a big difference, especially when so much of the bible is allegorical (Jesus predicting the fall of the Israelites when walking past the fig tree cursing it in Mark or answering the Sanhedrin at almost any point, but Mark has several examples). I have been reading for a lot of years and heard many interpretations often on the same thing, but rarely do interpretations match, except when there is a clearcut truth, like turn your cheek 70 times 7 (instead of one cheek and then the other, only one time each. Peter thought he was being generous in saying seven times, ha! "Matthew 18:22-23 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22: Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.") Or taking things out of context. That's another thread for another day. At any rate, even getting them to pratice what is preached wouldn't solve the problem! Might help, couldn't hurt, but solve it, nope.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Advent is the beginning of the ecclesiastical year in Western churches. Like Lent, it is a penitential season; the faithful make themselves worthy for the Lord's coming.

Thinking back to childhood... the Advent calendars we always had with a window to open each day up until Christmas.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

We are supposed to be celebrating the birth of the Prince of Peace.

Since when do you celebrate ANYTHING Christian?!? You sure know how to turn it on and off depending on your agenda.

My reverence concerning the Reason for the season is without question. However, I DO have a sense of humor, too. I'm sure if some liberal had posted that, you'd have found it hilarious. Let me ask you-- am I supposed to completely suspend my sense of humor until Dec 26th?

This post was edited by bill_vincent on Tue, Dec 4, 12 at 17:16


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Since when do you celebrate ANYTHING Christian?!?

Boy, have you not been paying attention.

Liberation theology, social justice, pacifism -- these are Catholic themes which you have apparently failed to see in my comments.

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist." ~ Dom Helder Pessoa Camara, Archbishop of Olinda and Recife, Brazil


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

I have failed to see ANYTHING pro Catholic or pro ANY kind of Christian from you in the 8 years I've been here..... till now.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

As I said, you haven't been paying attention.

I can't believe that you've never noticed my strong anti-war stance, nor my advocacy for social and economic justice.



 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

I have failed to see ANYTHING pro Catholic or pro ANY kind of Christian from you in the 8 years I've been here

Are you making the mistake that only those who think as you do are legitimate Christians?


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

It's kind of amazing, Bill, that you never noticed. (Seriously, not trying to be snarky.) Nancy often shares her gentle and I've always presumed -- from her references -- Catholic point of view. She's just not an in-your-face protestant fundamentalist, if that's what you mean by "Christian"?


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

No, it's not what I mean. The values that she just happens to share with Christians, she never attributes to her faith, but rather her aversion to whatever rightwing wind happens to be blowing. ANY time anything spiritual comes up, either she's silent, or she's negative. If she's got ANY real belief in Jesus Christ as her Saviour, I'd be shocked, and would have to see it to believe it.

I won't hold my breath.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

"A day off work." Thanks for the chuckle, and good point.

"So now "non-believers" aren't allowed to celebrate the holidays at all?" Obviously this discussion will not result in the creation of any rules to allow or disallow anything. So of course not. But if you're asking me if that's what I meant by the phrase of mine you copied:

"If folks want a secular holiday, they should invent one." Then of course not again. If by "the holidays" you are still referring to Christmas, all I'm saying is that I take umbrage when someone wants to, IMO, steal something, then change the names of the whole thing or its' components. For example, from Christmas tree to holiday tree. If folks want to invent the holiday tree, great! Why do they need to steal the Christmas tree to do that?

Excellent collective point about most of the trappings being secular. Which brings us back to the Christmas tree. As a recent trapping glommed on to Christmas in recent past, perhaps folks, myself included, could/should be more accepting of such practice as changing the name to holiday tree. For those inspired to proselytize about "true meanings or such," it grants them the perfect opportunity...

As a member of a democratic society, I fully support people's prerogative to call it a holiday tree. My umbrage is not their responsibility. The right to not be offended, thankfully does not exist. So at times like these, I just relish the sensation and lively discussion, only available through the right to speak freely, and because next week, it's likely to be me causing umbrage right back.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Dec 4, 12 at 18:09

If she's got ANY real belief in Jesus Christ as her Saviour, I'd be shocked, and would have to see it to believe it.

You are way off base Bill.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

If she's got ANY real belief in Jesus Christ as her Saviour, I'd be shocked, and would have to see it to believe it.

People who treat religion like it's a competitive sport baffle me. 'nuff said.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

she never attributes to her faith, but rather her aversion to whatever rightwing wind happens to be blowing. ANY time anything spiritual comes up, either she's silent, or she's negative.

You have the reason backwards; the aversion to right-wing politics stems from its disdain for social and economic justice... and the predominance of war mongers among its ranks.

I don't think I've ever seen a serious discussion of spirituality on HT. I've seen Hallmark-type facile sentiments expressed, snippets from maudlin e-mails, and abundant cliches, but other than that, nothing that I'd care to delve into... and also for fear of insulting others. I acknowledge that it is a difficult subject to address without resorting to cliches, but unless the ideas are expressed somewhat uniquely, and particular to the person, I already have enough exposure to the easy-faith happy talk (like the easy patriotism) that's awash in the U.S.

Personally, I'm a little suspicious of someone who has to constantly tell me about his/her faith. Rather like the saying regarding the dinner guest - the more he spoke of his honesty, the closer we kept an eye on the silver.

As far as being silent, opinions expressed here as just that - opinions. I'm not particularly thin skinned, and am not threatened by others having different views than mine. Most people don't believe as I do.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Nancy, I am glad you enjoyed my remark.

This is the first year in nearly a decade that I have had a Christmas (or holiday!) tree. I have wrestled, in years past, with how to integrate the spirit of Advent, which I do care about & want to observe, with secular traditions & trimmings that dominate the season.

I have taken a leap & decided to just "try on" being part of this particular kind of beauty & experience. I will also practice and observe the spirit of Advent in the midst of my (softly) glowing decor.

My hope is that I will feel stretched in the process, & will grow & gain insight as I learn to embrace & include this tradition back into my life.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Dec 4, 12 at 18:42

I'm not particularly thin skinned, and am not threatened by others having different views than mine.

Amen sistah!


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Why do they need to steal the Christmas tree to do that?

Well, Christians stole the tree from ancient solstice rituals, so...


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Nancy, I just read your last post. I guess I was typing, so I missed it. (I enjoyed reading your thoughts!). Bravo!


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

David: "/whats this with the Holiday Inn?"

Here you go, David, from Wikipedia:

"Holiday Inn is a 1942 American musical film directed by Mark Sandrich and starring Bing Crosby and Fred Astaire.[1] With music by Irving Berlin, the film has twelve songs written expressly for the film, the most notable being "White Christmas". The film features the complete reuse of "Easter Parade", written by Berlin for the 1933 Broadway revue As Thousands Cheer. The film's choreography was by Danny Dare. In 1943, the film received an Academy Award for Best Original Song (Irving Berlin for "White Christmas"), as well as Academy Award nominations for Best Score (Robert Emmett Dolan) and Best Original Story (Irving Berlin)."

It is said that the motel chain was named for this movie. The song "White Christmas" debuted in this movie; the story was a failing ski lodge which needed snow for the holiday season.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Wikipedia to the rescue :-)

Speaking of failing ski lodges, if Colorado doesn't get some more snow pretty quickly, things aren't looking good for the ski industry.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

You are way off base Bill.

OM, you have your opinion, I have mine.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

I simply do not understand how anyone can sit in judgment of another persons faith or spirituality. That is not our call.....to do so places one self on a plane neither deserved nor earned. If one truly believes in the Lord then one understands that call is His and His alone.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Haven't seen any war in Sin City one of the hottest tickets in town every year is Midnight Mass at St Patrick's Cathedralor St John The Divine!
Walking home tonight I snapped this in the coming few weeks many tourists will stop & snap this!

It will be OH Come all YE Faithful as well as it hsould be for the faithful let them be filled with their faith & leave the rest of us to party on with chic gift wrapped George Foreman Grills because nothing says The Word was Made Flesh like a gift card to AMAZON or WALMARTS or Bill O" Reilly being a jerk on TV or some appliance or cute wrapped sex toy that looks like candy cane!

This post was edited by labrea on Tue, Dec 4, 12 at 22:27


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

I read perfection:

It will be OH Come all YE Faithful as well as it hsould be for the faithful let them be filled with their faith & leave the rest of us to party on with chic gift wrapped George Foreman Grills because nothing says The Word was Made Flesh like a gift card to AMAZON or WALMARTS or Bill O" Reilly being a jerk on TV or some appliance or cute wrapped sex toy that looks like candy cane!

and then spy this footnote: This post was edited by labrea on Tue, Dec 4, 12 at 22:27

Please tell me the edit was for the photographs! I want to believe that you write genius-grade stream-of-consciousness on the first try.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Nancy, lol! I long ago realized that the best way to read Labrea's posts is to say them aloud to oneself, like a brilliant piece of performance poetry. (And thank you, by the way, for your most inspirational example of equanimity.)


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Stinky: "Brightly shining lights on trees & elsewhere are theoretically a no-no right now. Flashy stuff is simply not in keeping with the somber, reflective mood of Advent."

Theoretically; I see theories as somewhat subjective.

The Catholic Encyclopedia explains Advent nicely:

"During this time the faithful are admonished

�to prepare themselves worthily to celebrate the anniversary of the Lord's coming into the world as the incarnate God of love,
�thus to make their souls fitting abodes for the Redeemer coming in Holy Communion and through grace, and
�thereby to make themselves ready for His final coming as judge, at death and at the end of the world."

This could be a somber time, or a joyful one; depends on you.

"The popular idea that the four weeks of Advent symbolize the four thousand years of darkness in which the world was enveloped before the coming of Christ finds no confirmation in the Liturgy."

So if your celebration includes festive lights, music, etc. it's all good.

IMO.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Purpleinopp, you should read up on the history of what has now evolved into the rather recent idea of a "Christmas Tree" we all know and some love, myself included. You would be amazed at how pagan an evolution it actually sprang from and how very recent in history it's common use actually is, all things being relative.

The History channel usually covers this subject every Christmas season but as I have hardly had the television on much less even been in the area much lately, I could not tell you if this channel continues with the tradition of the offering of the education on all things concerning the Christian Christmas and the secular trappings which surround the holiday.

I did watch the whole series about five years ago and it was very interesting and informative, so I would recommend the series if you are interested and the History channel still offers it.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

I watched Jon Stewart's video on the war on Christmas earlier tonight. It was hilarious. Cracked me up when he said watch out Halloween , Christmas will swallow you up too. How does a person actually watch these dimwits on Faux without laughing out loud. Or is it a comedy cable channel now?

I miss the way Christmas was years ago. It's lost it's magic to me. I will go to the Xmas Eve candlelight service , my one trip to church a year, reminding me of the days when I was an acolyte. I love the old carols but detest the pop culture ones. One radio station here plays non stop Xmas music from before Thanksgiving till after New years day. 24/7!!


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

You have the reason backwards; the aversion to right-wing politics stems from its disdain for social and economic justice...

I saw where Bill was coming from (and even agreed, but reserved my judgement inside and out), and then you said that. I see that now. I do think that the older I get the closer I am to the same position. Makes a lot of sense. It seems to me that the deeper into relationship I get, the more I realize how right He was. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, give your money away, and unto God that which is God's, give your life to God. It's all so temporary. It's really difficult living without money, but it's still temporary. I know it. I live it. If I had to choose Him or money, the money would be completely gone. I'd sooner live in a box on the streets! It's taken me a long time to realize that the more I have [money]-the less I have [God]. But the converse is also true--the more I have [God] the less I need [money]. Because, if I have money, I find myself dependent on, well, myself.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Elvis~ "...it's all good." Sums it up well.

My comments about lights & such being a "no-no" were slightly tongue in cheek, & made in response to O'Reilly's convictions about the sanctity of holiday decor. I felt it was important to note that there is a stance, an approach, steeped in tradition, (& a tradition that O'Reilly is presumably steeped in!) that runs quite counter to his assertions.

While I have had my own internal conflicts & have struggled to find a balance, I don't engage in finger pointing & criticism of others' choices. (Chase said it well!).

Labrea, great pics. Wow.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Labrea, that is beautiful. Thank you.


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

Now Christmas in Japan is all about getting the best cake according to a a co worker FUMI (she's not christian but she told me the Japanese just love a good Christmas Cake.
It Has to have Strawberry's on it according to her!
Oh Ok that makes as much sense as fish on Christmas eve ( no one in my family does it and my mother was the last in her family that followed it.
The superintendent of the building will have 7 kinds of fish representing the seas!
it's the feast of the fishes La Vigilia (hmmn) the church where that nativity scene has also been in the tha background of other scenes. The Godfather, The Pope of Greenwhich Village, Moonstruck.
In the Old days when they were real Catholics Christmas Eve was a day of abstinence no goodies or meat till after midnight but pig out as much as you want on FISH!


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

You tell Fumi, what the Japanese find to be good, so do I. 'sides, at least strawberries are red, a Christmas color. The Chinese stuff not so much on being "good" to me. Their stuff is so lacking in sugar, one could hardly call them sweet! I love the rice snacks Hiroshi brings us when he comes back to visit. The sweet ones with huge sugar crystals and the slightly sweet with nori on them. But I don't pretend the nori ones are supposed to be "sweets". Ugh on the Chinese New Year cakes. Just my personal preference. Takes all kinds to make the world go 'round!


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

I keep hearing my mother ranting (rest her soul) not that I believe she had one it's just something she would have said herself when quoting or thinking of a dead character. Anyway, that American were crazy with this Christmas (expletive)
"Have a cup of tea & a piece of cake & go to MASS & stop being stupid! She dearly loved the word stupid so many US traditions that (she grudgingly practiced ...to blend in of course) were stupid.
The insanity of Christmas was one of the stupidest things second only to the drunks on St Patrick's Day! (another religious holiday run amuck)
On January 6 th she used to force us as kids to go visit other churches in other neighborhoods (often it had pious intent) but usually ended with how much money they could have given to the poor rather than buy all those stupid poinsettia's. Churches & their floral expenditures were also often the targets of her holiday ire!
My poor father usually was over looked he was born Dec 23 his middle name was NOEL which is not an uncommon European name but rarely heard in the US with all it's unusual & trendy names!
Yep there is a war on Christmas and pretty much anything that some faction or corporation can exploit for a dime, a point or a news item!
The Jewel is in The Lotus & The babe was in the manger let that suffice & be enough for all the gripers who complain we aren't getting it right!


 o
RE: 2012 War on Christmas has begun!

From a friend...

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit our best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral, celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all.....

AND

A fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year of 2013, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great, (not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country or is the only 'AMERICA' in the western hemisphere,) and without regard to the race,creed, color, a
ge, physical ability, religious faith, or sexual preference of the wishee.

By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms. This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original reading. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher.

this wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Hot Topics Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here