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Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Posted by nikoleta (My Page) on
Thu, Dec 20, 12 at 17:41

Who has heard about the US Marine chained to a bed in a Mexican, drug cartel controlled prison? If you have heard about him, where did your information come from? I ask, because the MSM has done little to report this situation to the American people. I think our veterans deserve better from the networks and from our own government. He has been in prison since August. Looks like it will be up to Fox News and the "new media" to get the story out.

FTA: "His crime: declaring to Mexican authorities that he was transporting an antique shotgun after registering the gun with U.S. Customs agents on his way to a surfing trip with buddies in Costa Rica.

We can understand the silence of mainstream media and Hollywood liberals who hold candlelight vigils every time a cop-killer is sent to death row. But ignoring a Marine vet suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome..."

Read the entire article at the link below.


Here is a link that might be useful: IBD: Mexico still mistreating US citizen


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

I read the article and was amazed that he or anyone else would think it was OK to transport any weapon across national boundaries. Equivalent to me bringing drugs back to here from another country. Who cares if he registered it with US Customs right before he crossed into another set of laws.
Did he know how many sovereign countries he was going to drive this gun through to get to Costa Rica? All have borders and don't necessarily have that much respect for US Customs.
What was his purpose in bringing that antique there? If it was the equivalent of his security blanket, he should have stayed here.

Nickoleta, I'm not fussing at you, but I'm going to be backpacking in Central America this February. It is the responsibility of every traveler to know the laws of every country they travel through, just like being able to identify venomous snakes. I've seen too many Ugly (entitled) Americans in my travels that just make it harder on the rest of us.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Why did he feel he needed to carry a gun on vacation anyway?


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Why is it important to this story that he is an ex-marine? Are American soldiers some how more important than the rest of us when it comes to the laws of another country...even if they are whacked laws.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

This is the Faux news latest outrage of the week. OReilly featured it last night and tonight. Who goes on vacation with a gun to another country?


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

"Nickoleta, I'm not fussing at you, but I'm going to be backpacking in Central America this February. It is the responsibility of every traveler to know the laws of every country they travel through, just like being able to identify venomous snakes. I've seen too many Ugly (entitled) Americans in my travels that just make it harder on the rest of us."

Sounds like he tried, Steve, and got bad info from the U.S. authorities. Someone's head should roll:

"The gun was barely suitable for shooting birds and rabbits; his wife called it a "glorified BB gun." Yet Mexican authorities insist a crime has been committed and the weapon is a serious threat, largely because the gun barrel, as they measure it, is longer than 25 inches.

Hammar registered the antique weapon in the U.S. and was told if he presented the paperwork to Mexican authorities there should be no problem as he journeyed to Costa Rica. Instead, Mexican authorities dismissed the paperwork, arrested Hammer and sent him to CEDES prison in Matamoros. His next court date is Jan. 17, and he faces up to 12 years on the gun charge."

Read More At IBD: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/121412-637205-jon-hammar-wrongly-jailed-in-mexico.htm#ixzz2Fe6vSzVw

Posted by jerzeegirl 9 (My Page) on Thu, Dec 20, 12 at 20:10

"Why did he feel he needed to carry a gun on vacation anyway?"

Who knows? So you feel that he should face serious penalties for this.

I, for one, am joining the travel boycott. We just switched our spring Caribbean cruise itinerary to exclude Cozumel. They're not getting this gringa's dinero; this is serious bull.


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"We just switched our spring Caribbean cruise itinerary to exclude Cozumel. "

Really you managed to have the cruises itinerary changed...I'm impressed


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I read the article and was amazed that he or anyone else would think it was OK to transport any weapon across national boundaries.

That's my impresson as well.

Before the killing sprees by the drug cartels, when travel to Baja and Mexico was more common around here, the common wisdom was not to bring anything, or do anything in Mexico that could possibly bring you to the attention of the authorities. Bribes for your release / freedom would be the price -- one of the risks of traveling in a country with a poor distribution of income.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

""Why did he feel he needed to carry a gun on vacation anyway?"

Who knows? So you feel that he should face serious penalties for this."

Carrying weapons across country borders...sorry, no sympathy here.


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"We just switched our spring Caribbean cruise itinerary to exclude Cozumel. "
Really you managed to have the cruises itinerary changed...I'm impressed"

Er, no, One can't do that--I wish ;D

Maybe in my next incarnation I'll marry an oil tycoon instead of a mechanic...

Changed plans. Fortunately, it was a plan, not a lock. Sorry! And I do love spending time in Mexico; from brief cruise stops, to the summers I stayed in San Miguel de Allende at art school. Good times.

But this really is nonsense. This man was not smuggling hashish out of Turkey for heaven's sake.


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No sympathy here either. When you travel you need to understand and abide by the laws of your host country or suffer the consequences.


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I don't know the whole story but think there must be one.
So, he does get my sympathy.

One just doesn't "take" a relic antique gun on vacation
so I think there must be a story here.

He is someones son, brother, grandson.
He was given some bad advice by U.S Customs and he is in jail now ...not them.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

"Who goes on vacation with a gun to another country?"

My ex-boss used to (Mexico)... He would just pay the $10 or so "La Mordita" and he could take anything he wanted to his fishing spot on the mainland. It was the fools that didn't understand to make a little "white bribe" who were detained and had their vehicles dismantled in front of their eyes. Of course, that was before 9-11.


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I'm wondering about prejudice here; a negative remark about the behavior of a person of color usually brings about vehement accusations of racial bigotry. This man is caucasian and a soldier (read war monger?) to boot.

No sympathy for the white patriot? Ahhh, he's probably a conservative, too; after all, he does like that gun.


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I'm wondering about prejudice here

Wonder all you want. I wrote of my knowledge of travel in Mexico, and huachuma has confirmed what I wrote.

When my husband's idiot nephew was jailed in Baja, along with his friend, the friend's father immediately went to Baja and paid whoever he had to pay to bring the two back. We were on the hook for the nephew's share as his mother had zip to contribute. At least we didn't have to drive 3-4 hours to bribe some official, for which we were very thankful.


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No sympathy for the white patriot? Ahhh, he's probably a conservative, too; after all, he does like that gun.

Reading everyone's response there is no indication that your allegations have any merit. Most everyone has given their reasons for feeling as they do. Based on this article he didn't do his homework. I do hope he gets out but the rules were there.

I wonder what being a Marine has anything to do with this. He has not been one since 2007.

Hammar carried a .410-bore Sears & Roebuck shotgun that had been in his family for decades. His family said U.S. Border and Customs Protection agents in Brownsville, Texas, asked him to fill out a registration form for the shotgun and indicated it would be no problem to carry it into Mexico.

Mexican authorities immediately threw Hammar into a state prison, where fellow inmates belonging to Los Zetas, a feared organized crime group, sought to extort money from his family, saying that if they didn�t pay Hammar would be killed.

At that point, pleas by the family to U.S. diplomats at a consulate in Matamoros succeeded in helping get Hammar moved to a storage area of the prison near a guard station. That is where the photo was taken, his mother said.


Publicity over Hammar�s situation has drawn concern from officials and business owners in Tamaulipas, the border state in which Matamoros is located. On Thursday, Gerardo Acevedo Danache, vice president of the state�s chamber of commerce, called on President Enrique Pena Nieto and state Gov. Egidio Torre Cantu to pardon Hammar.

"With this detention and all the publicity around it, Mexico, Tamaulipas and Matamoros send a very bad signal to the tourists who visit us," Acevedo said in a news conference.

At most border crossings into Mexico, signs warn Americans against carrying firearms and ammunition.

The State Department�s Vaagen said Hammar would have needed to get permission from a Mexican consulate within the United States prior to crossing into the nation with a firearm.

"The U.S. Department of State�s Consular Specific Information for Mexico clearly states that no one should take firearms into Mexico without first obtaining a proper permit from the Mexican embassy or one of its consulates," Vaagen wrote. "There are also clear signs above the roads on the approaches to land border crossings warning travelers to not take firearms or ammunition into Mexico."

Hammar�s plight has touched fellow Marines with whom he served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they have been among those who have launched a petition campaign at the White House seeking his freedom. As of Monday morning, 17,200 people had signed the online petition.

Here is a link that might be useful: mcclatchy news


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Here is another report on a letter from the Mexican Abassador to the US to his mother via Ileana Ros-Lehtinen.

Here is a link that might be useful: more ...


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Here is another report on a letter from the Mexican Abassador to the US to his mother via Ileana Ros-Lehtinen.

Here is a link that might be useful: more ...


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

"I read the article and was amazed that he or anyone else would think it was OK to transport any weapon across national boundaries."

I read the article and learned the victim did exactly what he was told to do by US authorities.

"It is the responsibility of every traveler to know the laws of every country they travel through, just like being able to identify venomous snakes."

You got me. On the off chance we can find a Mexican citizen violating US laws, let's put him in jail and chain him to the bed.

"Based on this article he didn't do his homework. I do hope he gets out but the rules were there."

Exactly right. From now on we will stick to the letter of the law. It doesn't matter what your own authorities tell you is OK. From now on, if you are a Mexican citizen here illegally, you're going to jail. Rules are rules.

I'm going to invest in chains. Once we start chaining all those Mexican citizens who "didn't do their homework" before "traveling" to the US, I expect to become quite well off.

Turns out this young man is one of hundreds of Americans rotting in Mexican prisons this Christmas. Those who care will be appalled. All others, move along. It's just another article about Americans getting what they deserve. Then again, if you were planning a trip down south, you might want to read it. Clearly, you should get your affairs in order first. If you wind up in a Mexican jail, neither your government nor the MSM won't give a rat'sass.

FTA: "Today, not one, but hundreds of Americans rot in Mexican jails. The State Department stopped reporting numbers years ago, but in 1998 CNN reported 400 U.S. citizens were imprisoned in Mexico, more than in any other nation. The Obama administration response is to create "Beyond Merida," an aid program with appropriations that totaled $1.3 billion by 2010. In exchange for this ransom, how many Americans held without trial have been freed? None."

"Why is it important to this story that he is an ex-marine?"

Because his commander in chief is letting him rot in a Mexican prison controlled by a drug cartel.

"This is the Faux news latest outrage of the week."

Good point. He has been in prison for four months. What other networks are outraged?

Here is a link that might be useful: Memo to US citizens:Mexico's unsafe 4 U


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Thanks, nikoleta, for bringing this shameful treatment of our citizen to light.

Yes, yes, yes.
Let's chain Mexicans that break our laws to beds and see how fast Obama and Mexico work to straighten this out.

We don't chain anyone, we don't mistreat them, we don't send them back--we provide criminals with an education, health services and food paid for by taxpayers that can't obtain the same services.


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Nick""""""Looks like it will be up to Fox News and the "new media" to get the story out. "

Nick, you have to keep in mind that this isn't a Mexican, Costa Rican, Guatemalan or some other Central or South American citizen "illegally" sneaking across the US border to "illegally" live in, work in and reap the benefits of the welfare system of the US. Crossing into the US "illegally" seems to be perfectly acceptable and God forbid that one of the "illegal alien lawbreakers" should be be arrested or sent back to their country. Remember what happened to the two Border Patrol officers who shot the drug dealer?

No, this was an American citizen who was trying to do the legal thing. He "registered the antique weapon in the U.S. and was told if he presented the paperwork to Mexican authorities there should be no problem as he journeyed to Costa Rica." Why would Hammar be open in declaring the antique if he felt it was illegal to have it, yet by following the laws and declaring it he was thrown into prison.

Why would he take a gun on vacation to another country??? Who knows. I don't feel that it was for self defense or that he intended to use it. If he wanted to take a "weapon" with him for self defense it wouldn't have been an "Antique" shotgun nor would he have declared at the border. As CW said there must be a story behind the reason.

I must say the reaction of most here on HT didn't surprise me at all nor does the fact that our government hasn't intervened. Only our "government" is allowed to take/send weapons into Mexico without repercussions, as we recently found out.


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Reads like a "normal" Mexican response where the laws are rigorously followed if you don't know how to work the system. If your vehicle is involved in a road accident, you likely go to jail until the details of insurance and liability are concluded, gringo or Mexican. Doesn't matter if he is a veteran or Caucasian or male.

Sorry about the prison, most of which are controlled by local or regional drug cartel in the border states and Baja. The cartels need to be bribed too, especially if the prisoner is wealthy or has access to financial support.


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From now on, if you are a Mexican citizen here illegally, you're going to jail. Rules are rules.

I suspected this was where this thread was headed. Sorry to see I was right.


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We need to build many more prisons to house arrested illegals, sentencing them to maximum time. When a half million illegals are imprisoned and billions of dollars of US taxpayers' hard-earned cash have been spent, then Nika will start in on reducing bloated government spending on foreigners. And on government coddling of illegals, feeding them and taking care of their health needs and showing them too much due process, gifts that only true Americans deserve. Make their continued imprisonment harsh and punitive.


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As for the OP asking if we'd heard about it. Yes, several days ago, it was reported by the Associated Press and picked up by several newspapers.

And as for a .410 being a "BB gun", however many years old it is, I don't think so.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

nikoleta wrote,

"If you have heard about him, where did your information come from? I ask, because the MSM has done little to report this situation to the American people. I think our veterans deserve better from the networks and from our own government. He has been in prison since August. Looks like it will be up to Fox News and the "new media" to get the story out....We can understand the silence of mainstream media..."

It was reported by Reuters, McClatchy, NBC and MSNBC, CBS, and others. Fox reported it no earlier than those news outlets.

Hammar was removed from the prison general population for his own protection and for some periods there was no cell available so he was manacled to a bed. Charges have been dropped and he is now being released.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

He is being released today.

I read the article and learned the victim did exactly what he was told to do by US authorities.

He asked one person not the"authorties"

Here is what the Authorities state on their website regarding firearms. It is very clear.

From the State Dept. travel site;

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_970.html

Firearms Penalties: Illegal firearms trafficking from the United States into Mexico is a major problem. The Department of State warns all U.S. citizens against taking any type of firearm or ammunition into Mexico. Entering Mexico with a firearm, certain types of knives, or even a single round of ammunition is illegal, even if the weapon or ammunition is taken into Mexico unintentionally. The Mexican government strictly enforces laws restricting the entry of firearms and ammunition along all land borders and at airports and seaports, and routinely x-rays all incoming luggage. U.S. citizens entering Mexico with a weapon or ammunition (including a small number of bullets), even accidentally, generally are detained for at least a few days, and violations by U.S. citizens have resulted in arrests, convictions, and long prison sentences. Travelers are strongly advised to thoroughly inspect all belongings prior to travel to Mexico to avoid the accidental import of ammunition or firearms. For more information visit the websites for the Mexican Secretary of Defense and Mexican Customs.

BEFORE one travels, it is prudent to do your homework and read and UNDERSTAND the laws where you will be traveling. A visit to the State Department website of any travel site that deals with Mexico would have supplied him with correct information. Who ever told him it was ok was wrong and unfortunately Hammar paid a price.

You disingenuously stated in both the title and the op that a Marine is being held which is incorrect. I wonder why did you feel the need to change/embellish the story?

If Hammar is no longer in the military then Obama is no longer his CIC and he is no longer a Marine. He is now just a citizen like the rest of us.

Nick""""""Looks like it will be up to Fox News and the "new media" to get the story out. "

McClatchy broke this story not Fox. It was also covered by Knight Ridder, NY Daily News. and other media outlets. Fox ran with it like you did to try to turn this into an anti-obama and illegal issue.

Glad he is getting out.

Here is a link that might be useful: hammar being released


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

...we don't send them back

Another disingenuous statement. We certainly do send many back and apparently more are going back on their own.

Just because it isn't enough in your eyes doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


(AP) WASHINGTON - The number of Mexican immigrants living illegally in the U.S. has dropped significantly for the first time in decades, a dramatic shift as many illegal workers, already in the U.S. and seeing few job opportunities, return to Mexico.
...
Roughly 6.1 million unauthorized Mexican immigrants were living in the U.S. last year, down from a peak of nearly 7 million in 2007, according to the Pew Hispanic Center study released Monday. It was the biggest sustained drop in modern history, believed to be surpassed in scale only by losses in the Mexican-born U.S. population during the Great Depression.

Much of the drop in illegal immigrants is due to the persistently weak U.S. economy, which has shrunk construction and service-sector jobs attractive to Mexican workers following the housing bust. But increased deportations, heightened U.S. patrols and violence along the border also have played a role, as well as demographic changes, such as Mexico's declining birth rate.

In all, the Mexican-born population in the U.S. last year -- legal and illegal -- fell to 12 million, marking an end to an immigration boom dating back to the 1970s, when foreign-born residents from Mexico stood at 760,000. The 2007 peak was 12.6 million.
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Jeffrey Passel, a senior demographer at Pew who co-wrote the analysis, said Mexican immigration may never return to its height during the mid-decade housing and construction boom, even with the U.S. economy recovering. He cited longer-term factors such as a shrinking Mexican work force.

He noted that government data now show a clear shift among Mexican workers already in the U.S. who are returning home. He said that data is a sign that many immigrants are giving up on life in the U.S., feeling squeezed by increasing enforcement and limited opportunities that they don't see improving anytime soon.

About 1.4 million Mexicans left the U.S. between 2005 and 2010, double the number who did so a decade earlier. In the meantime, the number of Mexicans who entered the U.S. sharply fell to about 1.4 million, putting net migration from Mexico at a standstill. More recent data suggest that most of the movement is now heading back to Mexico, accounting for the drop in the illegal immigrant population.

During the same period, the population of authorized Mexican immigrants edged higher, from 5.6 million to 5.8 million.

Among the Mexican immigrants who leave the U.S., an estimated 5 to 35 percent are deported while the rest opt to go back voluntarily, often taking U.S.-born children with them. Those who were in the U.S. illegally and returned to Mexico also are increasingly saying they will not try to come back, about 20 percent, compared to 7 percent in 2005.

The Pew estimates come amid heightened attention on immigration in an election year where the fast-growing Hispanic population, now making up roughly 16 percent of the U.S. population, could play a key role. Arizona's law, being challenged by the Obama administration in the Supreme Court, seeks to expand the authority of state police to ask about the immigration status of anybody they stop on the rationale that federal enforcement has largely failed.
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Other findings:

Illegal Mexican immigrants who have stayed in the U.S. for longer periods of time are now more likely to be sent back by authorities than before. About 27 percent of immigrants sent back had resided in the U.S. for a year or more, up from 6 percent in 2005.

Despite an increase in Border Patrol agents, apprehensions of illegal immigrants at the U.S.-Mexico border have dropped sharply -- from 1 million in 2005 to 286,000 in 2011, a sign that fewer illegal immigrants are trying to enter.

Some 29 percent of all current U.S. immigrants are Mexican born, by far the most from any single country; that's down from its peak of 32 percent in 2004-2009. The next largest share comes from India, accounting for 4.5 percent of the nation's 40 million foreign-born residents.

Here is a link that might be useful: Illegal Mexican immigrant numbers down as more migrate back to Mexico


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

  • Posted by ENMc none (My Page) on
    Fri, Dec 21, 12 at 12:52

*From now on, if you are a Mexican citizen here illegally, you're going to jail. Rules are rules.*

"I suspected this was where this thread was headed. Sorry to see I was right."

And then, there's always this

"Because his commander in chief is letting him rot in a Mexican prison controlled by a drug cartel."

This was a rare twofer for the righties...illegal mexicans and bashing Obama.

E


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

I suspected this was where this thread was headed. Sorry to see I was right...

Because his commander in chief is letting him rot in a Mexican prison controlled by a drug cartel.

Adapted from the brilliant kwoods:

Disclaimer

Anyone reading this might might interpret the silence of many of the posters here as indicative of some kind of agreement or tolerance of the views expressed. Nothing could be further from the truth. We've just been led down this road soooo many times by the same poster. To me personally it has become somewhat embarrassing to have certain posters blatantly explore their own xenophobic hang-ups and Obama aversion in these forums as though there is some therapeutic value in doing so.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Disclaimer

Anyone reading this might might interpret the silence of many of the posters here as indicative of some kind of agreement or tolerance of the views expressed. Nothing could be further from the truth. We've just been led down this road soooo many times by the same poster. To me personally it has become somewhat embarrassing to have certain posters blatantly explore their own xenophobic hang-ups and Obama aversion in these forums as though there is some therapeutic value in doing so.


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"This was a rare twofer for the righties...illegal mexicans and bashing Obama. "

nahhh it was probably Bush's fault.


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HAHA!

It's all Bush's fault.

Just ask Barack Obama!


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Outrage o meter zilch!
Froma The website of the Department of State.
Gee this kind of stuff must happen every now & then & here & there for them to write this!

Possession of Firearms

"The places where U.S. citizens most often experience difficulties for illegal possession of firearms are nearby Mexico, Canada and the Caribbean. Sentences for possession of firearms in Mexico can be up to 30 years."

How to Avoid Legal Difficulties

When you are in a foreign country, you are subject to its laws and are under its jurisdiction. You can be arrested overseas for actions that may be either legal or considered minor infractions in the United States. Familiarize yourself with legal expectations in the countries you will visit. The Country Specific Information pages include information on unusual patterns of arrests in particular countries, as appropriate.

Drug Violations

More than one-third of U.S. citizens incarcerated abroad are held on drug charges. Some countries do not distinguish between possession and trafficking, and many have mandatory sentences even for possession of a small amount of marijuana or cocaine. A number of Americans have been arrested for possessing prescription drugs, particularly tranquilizers and amphetamines, that they purchased legally elsewhere. Other U.S. citizens have been arrested for purchasing prescription drugs abroad in quantities that local authorities suspected were for commercial use. If in doubt about foreign drug laws, ask local authorities or the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate.

Possession of Firearms

The places where U.S. citizens most often experience difficulties for illegal possession of firearms are nearby Mexico, Canada and the Caribbean. Sentences for possession of firearms in Mexico can be up to 30 years. In general, firearms, even those legally registered in the U.S., cannot be brought into a country unless a permit is obtained in advance from the embassy or a consulate of that country and the firearm is registered with foreign authorities on arrival. (NOTE: There are also strict rules about bringing firearms or ammunition into the U.S; check with U.S. Customs before your trip.

Photography

In many countries you can be detained for photographing security-related institutions, such as police and military installations, government buildings, border areas and transportation facilities. If you are in doubt, ask permission before taking photographs.

Purchasing Antiques

Americans have been arrested for purchasing souvenirs that were, or looked like, antiques and that local customs authorities believed were national treasures. This is especially true in Turkey, Egypt and Mexico. Familiarize yourself with any local regulations of antiques. In countries with strict control of antiques, document your purchases as reproductions if that is the case, or if they are authentic, secure the necessary export permit (often from the national museum). It is a good idea to inquire about exporting these items before you purchase them.

Yet ANOTHER SITE WARNS (from)
The Consul General of the US at Tijuana
(get your harrumphs on cause your all so special)

Don’t bring firearms or ammunition across the border into Mexico.

Don’t carry a knife, even a small pocketknife, on your person in Mexico.

You may become one of dozens of U.S. Citizens who are arrested each month for unintentionally violating Mexico’s strict weapons laws.

If you are caught with firearms or ammunition in Mexico...

You will go to jail and your vehicle will be seized;
You will be separated from your family, friends, and your job, and likely suffer substantial financial hardship;
You will pay court costs and other fees ranging into the tens of thousands of dollars defending yourself;
You may get up to a 30-year sentence in a Mexican prison if found guilty.
If you carry a knife on your person in Mexico, even a pocketknife . . .

You may be arrested and charged with possession of a deadly weapon;
You may spend weeks in jail waiting for trial, and tens of thousands of dollars in attorney’s fees, court costs, and fines;
If convicted, you may be sentenced to up to five years in a Mexican prison.
Claiming not to know about the law will not get you leniency from a police officer or the judicial system. Leave your firearms, ammunition, and knives at home. Don’t bring them into Mexico.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

I was waiting for lectures on personal responsibility because Hammar didn't use common sense and thoroughly check if it were legal to bring a gun into a foreign country. I expected at a least a secondary lecture on his failure to learn what was required when crossing a foreign border.

Surprise - some jabs at President Obama.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

nahhh it was probably Bush's fault.

Just ask Barack Obama!

Let the games continue. First the op tried to lead us to believe that a marine is being imprisoned. false. Now this nonsense to try to distract from the facts.
Hmmmm. Wouldn't this fall under your favorite category... personal responsibility?

He was old enough to embark on a trip to South America so it was up to him to know the laws where he was traveling. We were all able to find them easily and quickly and posted them.

He was a young man who didn't do his due diligence before he left on his adventure. No ones fault but Jon Hammar. Not obama's, not bush, not the man who gave him wrong information, not the easter bunny, not...


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

What a hoot!

An American citizen exercises bad judgment and in fact breaks the laws in a foreign country and it's all Obama's fault... except he'll blame Bush! LOL ~~~~

Desperate......


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Posted by mrskjun 9 (My Page) on Fri, Dec 21, 12 at 15:01

"This was a rare twofer for the righties...illegal mexicans and bashing Obama. "
nahhh it was probably Bush's fault.

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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed clip this post email this post what is this?
see most clipped and recent clippings

Posted by demifloyd 8 (My Page) on Fri, Dec 21, 12 at 15:04

HAHA!
It's all Bush's fault.

Just ask Barack Obama!

Now there were 2 intellectual posts that really added something to the conversation. Maybe someone can explain how Bush and/or Obama have anything to do with this topic. Other than nik blaming Obama for not rescuing a private citizen jailed in a foreign country for violating the laws of that country.

Nancy - you'll never get those lectures on personal responsiblity when a conservative started the post.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

I'm having a problem understanding how this is anyone's fault but Hammar's. Why would he think that having a weapon registered in one country allowed him to bring it into another country? What happened to taking personal responsibility for your own actions. Isn't that something often mentioned here?

~Ann


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

"I'm having a problem understanding how this is anyone's fault but Hammar's. Why would he think that having a weapon registered in one country allowed him to bring it into another country?"

Because he checked with US authorities first, and they explained the process to him, which he tried to follow.

"This was a rare twofer for the righties...illegal mexicans and bashing Obama. "

Yep. Conservatives are so annoying. How dare they contrast America's treatment of illegal aliens with Mexico's treatment of US citizens? And why would anyone expect President Barack Obama to have a problem with Mexico putting American citizens in chains?

Thank you, Fox News, for reporting this story and staying on it.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

We will hear nothing more on this because there is no rational argument to be made.

Try as some may to make this about illegal aliens and President Obama the facts are the man broke the laws of a country he was visiting and that's dumb.

Wonder why there is not equal outrage for all the American kids in foreign jails because of drug violations...oh wait that's because they didn't take personal responsibility for their actions...and it isn't Mexico !

Trying to make this a big deal is pathetic. The guy broke the law in a foreign country and paid a price. He is released and maybe next time will be a bit smarter.

By the way why do you think he really was taking the gun into Mexico...money perhaps?


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

"Because he checked with US authorities first, and they explained the process to him, which he tried to follow"

Nik, so if a Mexican checks with Mexican authorities and is told it is OK to work without papers in the US the Mexican is absolved of all accountability. After all he checked with HIS country about the laws of ANOTHER country.

Facts are this is a nothing case.It has nothing to do with the President and it most certainly has nothing to do with the fact this guy used to be a Marine.

Must be annoying not to have really good stuff to go after the President on even though it is out there for the picking. I could help you with some serious stuff that he can be gone after for but ....why would I do that?


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

demifloyd wrote,

"HAHA!
It's all Bush's fault.

Just ask Barack Obama!

A mean, gratuitous snipe at the president in the form of a strawman fallacy. How empty. And, I note, not even in supposed self-defense against any post directed at demifloyd, but purely on the offensive.

This sort of post reveals the hollowness of claims that you do nothing but offer your opinion about topics, and reveals the hypocrisy of statements like this:

"if you can't talk about topics and are happier trashing people that you don't even know... then I suppose that's what you do. "

I would be most appreciative if you would offer something substantive or even constructive on the topic, rather than engaging in mean, insulting comments about the president that don't even contain any content.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Bottom line: story got big publicity and he's being released. Thank you :)


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

If you believe there is a connection to yesterdays faux outrage on a few news sites and the actions of the Mexican government...well bless you.

So I guess you can put Cozumel back on the cruise ships itinerary.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

nikoleta wrote,

" the MSM has done little to report this situation to the American people.... Looks like it will be up to Fox News and the "new media" to get the story out....We can understand the silence of mainstream media and Hollywood liberals who hold candlelight vigils every time a cop-killer is sent to death row. But ignoring a Marine vet suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome....Thank you, Fox News, for reporting this story and staying on it."

Your central claim regarding the media's failure to report on this is false. The fact of the matter is that mainstream media outlets reported it before Fox did, and continued to report about it. Therefore, the central point of your attack on the media is built on a falsehood, and your argument collapses.

If you fail to acknowledge your error in this regard, it will become clear that you formulate a position first, then try to find -- or fabricate, if necessary -- "facts" to support it, rather than building your position based on the facts.

Do you admit that you were flatly wrong about the mainstream media being silent on this story, and that it has not been left "up to Fox...to get the story out"?


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Posted by Factotem none (My Page) on
Fri, Dec 21, 12 at 17:25

demifloyd wrote,

"HAHA!
It's all Bush's fault.

Just ask Barack Obama!

A mean, gratuitous snipe at the president in the form of a strawman fallacy. How empty. And, I note, not even in supposed self-defense against any post directed at demifloyd, but purely on the offensive.

This sort of post reveals the hollowness of claims that you do nothing but offer your opinion about topics, and reveals the hypocrisy of statements like this:

"if you can't talk about topics and are happier trashing people that you don't even know... then I suppose that's what you do. "

I would be most appreciative if you would offer something substantive or even constructive on the topic, rather than engaging in mean, insulting comments about the president that don't even contain any content.


*

It's called Hot Topics for a reason.

Not "Factotem Topics."

Get used to that "FACT."


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

demifloyd wrote,

"It's called Hot Topics for a reason.

Not 'Factotem Topics.'

Get used to that 'FACT.'"

Posting words in all caps is shouting, and is most unbecoming of an educated person. It's unnecessary and rather rude. Consider ceasing that practice.

Indeed, it's Hot Topics -- not Hot Off-Topic-Insults. In fact, you have repeatedly criticized others for straying from the topic and issuing insults, yet when you engage in the very behavior you so loudly decry (in all caps, no less), suddenly that's OK because it's Hot Topics. A crisp example of hypocrisy and a double standard.

You've scolded (again with those silly shouting caps),

"YOU ARE THE ONES that divert from the topics by denigrating me, personally"

...yet here you "divert" from the topic and denigrate the president.

And again, you've declared,

"I do nothing but offer my opinion about topics"

...except when you don't, it seems.

Do you have anything substantive to offer on the topic of this story, or the media's coverage of it? In mostly lower-case?


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Because he checked with US authorities first, and they explained the process to him, which he tried to follow.

His family claims he checked with US authorities but we don't know that. What seems clear is apparently no one bothered to check with the Mexican authorities. When traveling to a foreign country it is prudent to check with the specific country you are traveling to and/or double check advice you get from others especially when it comes to traveling with guns. Laws and rules change constantly. The only way to ensure you are getting the right information is to go to the source. There were plenty of resources where he or anyone associated with him could have found the correct information.

And why would anyone expect President Barack Obama to have a problem with Mexico putting American citizens in chains

Apparently the US Government did have a problem with it. From my link above.

Hammar's father visited him in the jail Sept. 14, and his mother says she believes the photo definitely was taken at the jail.

The date of the photo is not known. A spokesman for the State Department, William Ostick, said last week that the department believed guards at the prison had stopped restraining Hammar with a chain.

Reiterating that assertion Monday, another State Department spokesperson, Ariel Vaagen, said in an email: "When we learned that physical restraints were being used, we raised the issue with prison authorities, who agreed to stop using the restraints. Mr. Hammar is not being restrained in any way, and has not been since consular officers intervened."

Vaagen said consular officers had visited Hammar four times in the prison, most recently on Nov. 29 and Dec. 13.

So it seems the State Dept. has been working on this before Fox News picked up the story from McClatchy and before December 6th when McClatchy first reported it.

Nik, seems eager to retain her Crown -- Queen of Misinformation. He wasn't a Marine, Fox News didn't break the story, other media outlets reported on it, the State Dept. has been working on this long before we knew about it,...

Bottom line: story got big publicity and he's being released.

The bottom line is Nik posted lots of misinformation and you and others blindly bought into it without checking the facts. Then you went on to falsely accuse other posters of nonsense based on it. It's not the first time and won't be the last.

So much for personal responsibility.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

The story was reported first by the Miami Herald on Dec 6, at least 5 days before Fox did. Since Hammar lived in Miami, it's logical that the Miami newspaper would cover the story first.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miami Herald


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

"Do you have anything substantive to offer "

Not very often. She does like to say "personal responsibility" though. Eventually she will say you are calling her a liar or attacking her though.

My last two sentences pretty much cover her entire contribution to Hot Topics these days. She used to actually have something to say.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Thank you Frank, God Bless You.

I would go back to more substantive comments, but the personal insults and rancor has shut that down.

I finally decided if you can't beat them, join them.

You got more of what you subsidized.

You just got it from the other side. Oops~

Now--who's not talking about topics, but talking about me?

Oh yea, Factoman and you.

Can't help yourselves, can you?


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

We have become a tiresome and predictable lot, even the newbies from the NRA.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Mexico has enforced it's border law as I believe we should I believe Nik also believes that before she fell pray to FOX bait.
Lets chain that STATE DEPT official up or even find them first for giving out false information. My dear uoud swear this kind of thing was new to them!~


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Yes, I don't like it at all, Marshall.
When you play near the mud you get dirty.
I ask myself why I even respond.

Perhaps it's revisiting those bullies in school when I kept my mouth shut and allowed them to say or do whatever they wanted because I was raised that it was unacceptable to cause any consternation or take up for myself. I learned at the age of eighteen it was okay to say something and shut it down.

Perhaps the reason some do it here is they were bullied and think they have a safe venue in which to exact revenge by doing it to someone else.

I'm not going to psychoanalyze anyone, I'm not qualified, and it's been curious to see others try to do it.

We're all flawed. Every one of us.
Most all of us have redeeming values. I've seen those in 99% of the posters here. Maybe that's why I stay.

Merry Christmas to you-- I wish you good health and a prosperous New Year. Actually to every one.

I'm glad the young man is home.
The last time I was in Mexico was 2002 and I felt perfectly safe. I would not go back, however.

There are too many other places to visit that you are less likely to encounter problems.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Merry Christmas to you and yours, Dear Demi. (Dear stubborn Demi!) :)

To disarm bullies, you have to use humor and insult their uncles, so to speak, not their mothers or their persons.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Not one person here would be happy if a Mexican citizen entered the US toting a rifle. They would slap him in jail in a heartbeat. Since Mexico's laws are stricter than ours, why is this any surprise and why is anyone outraged at all?


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Because it is all Obama's fault as a failed CinC.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

demifloyd wrote,

"I would go back to more substantive comments, but the personal insults and rancor has shut that down.

I finally decided if you can't beat them, join them."

Thank you for your admission that all your previous declarations about how you only give your opinions on topics, and that you don't hurl insults, and that you are not mean, are not true, and that in truth, you engage in all those behaviors you so harshly criticized (as many others here had already observed on numerous occasions). This confession will serve as a useful guide to others who read your posts going forward, and you might consider an apology for your previous denials in this regard in light of your admission and implicit retraction.

Thanks for finally being honest about this.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Aren't you so cute, Factotem?

Aren't you so proud of yourself?

Enjoy feeling smug about the carp you just typed.

It's of no consequence to me.

Go play this game with yourself.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

"Your central claim regarding the media's failure to report on this is false."

Nonsense. Before asking others to comment on how many had heard the story, I did my homework. Compared with Fox and conservative blogs, reports from the MSM were scant. It simply was not a big news story across the country, although the victim had been incarcerated since August. After my initial post, some insisted the story was nothing but Fox "outrage." This is not a claim libs make about reports that are "widely reported" in the MSM.

Most telling was the question posted here repeatedly by liberals. They demanded to know what made the Marine think it was OK to take a gun to another country. My OP gave the Marine's side of the story. The liberal response was to complain that my reports were only "his word."

Which makes my point beautifully.

Either our resident libs did not bother checking their own, trusted MSM sources for an answer. Or they did check, but the MSM reports did not include an answer to the question that they, quite reasonably, asked.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

nikoleta wrote,

"Nonsense. Before asking others to comment on how many had heard the story, I did my homework.

This statement is false. You labeled the MSM as being "silent" (your word) on this story. The undisputed fact is that multiple MSM outlets reported the story prior to Fox, and reporting on it continued throughout. Where was Fox in August? September? October? November? Early December, when multiple MSM outlets were already reporting the story? The putative fact that Fox and "conservative blogs" decided to write a lot of words about it is utterly irrelevant to the timing and depth of reporting performed by the MSM.

To recap: Your central claim, upon which you founded this topic, that the MSM was "silent" on this story, and that Fox was first and only, is completely false. Your frantic backpedaling changes that not one iota, and it is most disappointing -- though not at all surprising -- that you do not have the integrity to simply admit that you were wrong on the facts. But when you have a bias so profound that it compels you to take a position first, then to seek or fabricate facts to support that position, you are left with no other option, I suppose.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed


Nonsense. Before asking others to comment on how many had heard the story, I did my homework. Compared with Fox and conservative blogs, reports from the MSM were scant.

Nikoleta, most telling is the fact that you feel compelled to distort the truth, first in your op and now.

You can't change facts. All one has to do is a search on Google to see when and who reported this story and when.
McClatchy- Tribune (owner of the Miami Herald and other media) was the first to report it through their DC bureau on Dec 6th. This is indicated in other media reports as well. I linked the McClatchy DC story above. Also reporting the story that day was NBC Miami, HuffPo, NPR, Knight-Ridder, Change.org, Yahoo,... Other media outlets picked it up on December 7th. All one has to do is search with the date to see the facts and who reported this. The story was not released until his mother decided to advise the media to enlist their help.

You continue to try to place blame on everyone and everything except Hammar. He may have been given bad information by someone but it was his responsibility to verify this info before he left.

Most telling was the question posted here repeatedly by liberals. They demanded to know what made the Marine think it was OK to take a gun to another country.

Everyone across the country who read this story has asked the same legitimate question. Most of us don't pack a gun with us when we are going surfing. I would also think that most people would be smart enough to verify the rules/laws before traveling to a country known for their gun laws and what they do to people that break them.

You continue to misidentify him as a marine. He is a veteran like many other Americans who served their country at one time but no longer do. He has been out of the Marines since 2007 and we are now heading into 2013 - that is 6-7 years ago.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Nika never admits to error. Beating on her will only encourage the martyrdom desires of poor misused conservatives.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Here's the latest. Hammar was released and is now driving back to Florida.

More information in this story about what happened. He filled out paperwork in the US which registered the gun and would allow the gun to be reimported into the US when he returned. So he had the export paperback to take the gun out of the US. What he didn't have was the import paperwork to get the gun into Mexico. Export and import are two entirely different transactions - he would have had to fill out import paperwork to clear customs into Mexico.

I actually traveled to Mexico as a courier with high value artwork and I can tell you that Mexican customs is very strict. They wanted to open the crates but luckily our customs broker was able to talk them out of it.

If you read the article, linked below, it gives the impression that this fellow is a little flaky - going to Costa Rica to surf and recover from post traumatic stress. He brings a gun with him. Instead of flying home, he decides to drive back to Florida with his friend. He's hoping to get back before Christmas - how far away does he think Texas is? I don't know....if I didn't know better, I would say it's the plot of a new Jim Jarmusch movie.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Epi: "Nik, seems eager to retain her Crown -- Queen of Misinformation. He wasn't a Marine, Fox News didn't break the story, other media outlets reported on it, the State Dept. has been working on this long before we knew about it,..."

I don't know about the rest of it, but he waas indeed a United States Marine:

Former marine back in the U.S. after months in a Mexican prison

By Andrew Khouri : Updated 3:36 p.m.

"After spending months in a Mexican prison for attempting to carry his great-grandfather�s shotgun into the country, a former Marine has been released and is back in the United States.

Jon Hammar, 27, a veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, had been incarcerated in the border city of Matamoros since August. He reportedly was beaten by inmates who also tried to extort money from his family in Florida..."

andrew.khouri@latimes.com

@khouriandrew

Copyright � 2012, Los Angeles Times


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Yes, he once served in the Marine Corps but once mustered out, he is a civilian unless in Reserve or Inactive status. But as Marines will say, once a Marine, always a Marine. I have a friend who spent most of his service years to retirement as a vehicle mechanic. I love to see him bridle up when a customer asks him if he was a marine.

"I AM a Marine."


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

"Which makes my point beautifully."
It only makes it more ridiculous!


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

I don't know about the rest of it, but he waas indeed a United States Marine.


In this instance, for the purpose of accuracy, he is an ex-marine just as every news report has stated. Nik continues to use it for effect and drama but you knew that. You also know that I knew he was an Marine. Just stirring the post as usual. Take your asinine games elsewhere.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

"But as Marines will say, once a Marine, always a Marine."

Exactly right, Marshall. They've made that call official, and I am happy to respect it. They earned it.

"You can't change facts. All one has to do is a search on Google to see when and who reported this story and when."

Yep. That's how I know the MSM gave the story scant attention. Fox was far more aggressive in following and reporting the story. Libs labeled Fox reporting the "outrage du jour." As if it were an aberration. Different. Not mirroring the MSM. They got that part right.

Once the MSM picked up the story, the Marine was released. Thank you, Fox News! Without you, neither the MSM nor Mexico would have felt the pressure.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Yes, surely there were no negotiations going on for the release of the fellow. FOX News to the rescue! Do you really believe that, nika?


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Well, Rupee Murdoch is known for his behind-the-scenes negotiating skills, and its entirely plausible that he alone is responsible for the release.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Probably got hold of the cell phone messages of the Mexican authorities and threatened to tell their wives about you-know-what.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

The point is, whether a Marine or an Ex-Marine, he is the only one responsible for the position he found himself in.

Ann


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

nikoleta wrote,

Once the MSM picked up the story, the Marine was released. Thank you, Fox News! Without you, neither the MSM nor Mexico would have felt the pressure.

You credit the start of coverage by the MSM for Mr. Hammar's release. The MSM picked up the story on December 6 -- days before Fox News published their first article about it. Therefore, by your own reasoning, the MSM gets all the credit. To reformulate your last sentence in light of the essential fact you keep ignoring, "Thank you, mainstream media! Without you, neither Fox News nor Mexico would have felt the pressure."

Stepping back, there is a very positive outcome from this thread. Future readers of Hot Topics will be able to view incontrovertible proof of nikoleta's dishonesty and evasions. So, in a sense, nokoleta has done the forum a favor by supplying such a clear example of her willingness to fabricate information in support of a predetermined position founded on deep bias, and readers can thus adjudge all her other claims with this knowledge in mind. So, while it is disappointing to have her fear of the truth confirmed yet again, at least her exposure in this topic can serve some useful purpose.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Fac, stop with the condescending remarks. We are already well familiar with nika's tactics and inability to admit error. No need to beat on her poor soul and attract the attention of moderators.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Well, it is kind of outrageous that someone would continue to tell a lie after the truth has been clearly presented. I just don't get that.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

I agree with JG. It's maddening when someone just cannot follow the simplest of facts and admit their error.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Found this information from a CNN article interesting.

"For the first few months, Hammar's family kept his plight out of the public eye, fearing media attention would cause him harm in prison. They finally came forward in hopes of getting Mexican authorities to act.

U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Florida, stepped in on Hammar's behalf, speaking to Mexico's ambassador to the United States. They managed to get him out of the general prison population so he would be away from dangerous inmates.

Hammar was moved to what Nelson said was like an administrative location. But because of the low security at the new facility, which Olivia Hammar described as a storage shed, officials periodically chained Hammar to his bed.

The Hammars recently turned to Ros-Lehtinen, who heads the House Committee on Foreign Affairs. She called the situation "outrageous" and took up the matter with the State Department, the U.S. ambassador to Mexico and the Mexican ambassador."

Seems once his parents told officials about their sons situation things changed...nada to do with ANY of the media.

PS Interesting that the first politician to step in on his behalf was a Dem ;)

Here is a link that might be useful: Former Marine Released


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

epi: "Take your asinine games elsewhere."

Re-think your attitude or at the very least grow some (good) manners. Seriously.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Anyway, I'm ex-Navy as of 1968, but I'm not carrying anything even as threatening as a pair of toenail clippers into Mexico and Central America on my trip.
I'll smile a lot and tell them how beautiful they and their country(s) are, compliment the food, hire guides when necessary and in every respect be an unofficial ambassador for the US. This guy played the opposite role.
I'm doing an open jawed trip: one way flight in, wander until my funds run low and then book a flight out.
I think my experience will be better than his and the impression I leave with my hosts of US citizens better also.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Vaya con Dios, Estefan ;)

Common sense and a low profile go a long way. If you do get into some sort of jam, though, I hope the U.S. gov't will help you out~~


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Elvis, try adding something of substance to this forum instead of just your usual inane jibes. So far, in the short time you have participated on HT, you have not shown that you are capable of it.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Epiphyticlr (hope I spelled that correctly)

This is an opinion board, sometimes larded with links and other substance, sometimes just nagging and sniping at one another. I recall elvis coming to the board with somewhat droll conservative opinion and received the common treatment from the more liberal "thingers" on the HT.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Marshall, on this we will have to agree to disagree.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

HARRUMPHHHH!


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

You remember right, Marshall ;D

It becomes pretty obvious, early on, that a non-liberal newbie poster to HT can participate the easy way by pretending to agree with the liberal side of things, or the poster can just be her/himself.

I believe that I made the right choice.

The fact that there is a clique here hell-bent on excluding newcomers who don't endorse their points of view is no doubt disheartening to many would-be additions to our ranks. Pity. Personal insults have no place here.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

I will agree there is a clique here. One post and they fall in step without doing any checking on their own......as demonstrated by this thread.

Then they get defensive when challenged. So predictable.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

A random conservative poster is an easy target to attack when the real "foes" are often intractable (and inaccessible) issues or personalities. As a libertarian-leaning senior citizen, I am allowed a little more license unless I dare to defend Ron Paul. Then the knives come out.

This post was edited by marshallz10 on Sun, Dec 23, 12 at 21:18


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Marshall, I remember your defense of Ron Paul stopped when his racist colleagues were pointed out to you.

As far as attacks against conservative newcomers, announcing one's sympathy with the birthers is the equivalent of wearing a 'kick me' sign when participating on a discussion board that is not strictly right-wing / Tea Party followers.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sun, Dec 23, 12 at 22:17

The two main problems the complaining right wingers have here are

1. The forum is not populated by like-minded people exclusively, making it therefore "liberal", "left-leaning" etc.

2. There are other posters here who object to the posting of la la


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Nancy, I did not stop defending Ron Paul but have refused to defend the nutters supporting him and who he refused to deny. Also, once Romney won to nomination, I switched to the official libertarian candidate but did vote for Obama rather than support a Republican. Both parties stink when it comes to the economy; however, the Repubs reek of dead ideas.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Marshall, I have never "bashed" anyone simply because they are conservative. I respond to specific statements that are posted as I did here.

I do not start threads or throw out random statements to intentionally provoke nor have I ever posted that I enjoyed antagonizing for the fun of it like some who have and then claim to be browbeaten.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Epi, I am not criticizing you; not even criticizing the perps because I tend to want people to be themselves, not polibots. There are cliques here as there are on other boards and forums. I tend to be too independent to fit comfortably into cliques.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Briefly back to the OP and Nikoleta's claims that the hapless traveller was entirely innocent, having, after all, checked with the janitor at City Hall while waiting in line to get his passport renewed.

And I guess it was also someone else's fault, Obama's likely, that he ignored these HUGE HONKING SIGNS, which are at every border crossing:

... with pikshurs, even!


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

marshall:

"I tend to be too independent to fit comfortably into cliques."

Independent?

Fact is, you're too ornery to fit comfortably into cliques. Nobody will have you!!!

Merry Christmas, you crotchety old fool!!!

Hay


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

I luv you too, Dancing Master! Merry Christmas to you and yours. I do love my independence.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

It isn't just newly posting conservatives who tend to get picked on. I remember my first couple posts on this forum--some anti-neo-nazi comments I made--a number of posters got outraged with me and someone reported me. That is the only warning I have ever received and I still don't know to this day why an anti-neo-nazi comment caused all that ruckus.

I think it has more to do with old-timers (in terms of forum usage) vs. newcomers, who tend to be viewed as some kind of suspicious intruder until they prove otherwise.

But conservatives tend to assume it is because of their political views, ignoring the fact that it happens to liberals also.

Kate


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

It happens to liberals, conservatives, independents, Americans and foreigners alike.

It has much more to do with what you say, and how you say it, than it does with a particular political view.


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RE: Mexico Payback: US Marine chained to bed

Epi, I am not criticizing you; not even criticizing the perps because I tend to want people to be themselves, not polibots. There are cliques here as there are on other boards and forums. I tend to be too independent to fit comfortably into cliques.

No problem Marshall, even if you were I can handle it. :)There are cliques in life so it is no different here and again, like life it is both sides.

It has much more to do with what you say, and how you say it, than it does with a particular political view.

That's it in a nutshell.


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