Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
giggles00

Alocasia not doing so well, have questions, please help....

giggles00
13 years ago

Hi, I bought a Alocasia about a month ago from a big dept store, and it has not been doing well. When I purchased it the soil was very dry, and it was peat moss entirely. Through looking at the websites, they recommended I replant into a soil mix, so I did, adding more perlite. I did not remove all the peat moss from the root ball though, since I did not want to damage it. When I checked the roots, they were not well, some were mushy. I removed those that I could. I have been careful with watering it, until it dry, so about 8-10 days or some between waterings, since I want to allow the roots to get better. But i dont think its working. The yellowing of the leaves stopped, but now the stems of the plant are shrinking, so instead of being nice and plump and are getting wrinkled, like they are loosing too much water. But the soil is still moist. Not sure what I should do. Should I try repotting again? Any help appreciated. I wanted to include pictures, but dont know how to add them to the site. Thanks.

Comments (37)

  • cmwren
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    To the best of my limited knowledge, alocasias are high (high) humidity lovers and fall into the "not a houseplant; only greenhouse or terrarium" category...?

    Hopefully someone with alocasia experience can help!

  • amccour
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've only heard of one person having success with these indoors outside of a greenhouse. Don't feel too bad about it ;)

  • greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Whoops! ;)
    Forgot the link!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Elephant Ear

  • cmwren
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    amccour wrote... "I've only heard of one person having success with these indoors outside of a greenhouse."

    And yet they show up all the time at local retail stores, because they are gorgeous and just beg you to buy them. I should know, I fell for the ploy once.

    What's the trick to keeping these beauties alive, Josh???

    Here's hoping giggle's will pull through!

  • greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've never heard that they're difficult...

    My buddy has one, which he grows in the kitchen.
    He lives at about 2300' elevation, and the plant sits in a window with western exposure.
    We re-potted his plant in the bark-based mix because the old soil was looking terrible.
    I can only assume it'll do even better!

    Josh

  • penfold2
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I kept an Alocasia Amazonica indoors last winter. The humidity was only 25-30%, but it did fine, even put out a couple new leaves. I think people tend to blame insufficient humidity for their plants' winter decline when the real problem is an overly water retentive soil. I grow mine in Al's gritty mix (equal parts fir bark, granite grit, and Turface). It's also in a shallow bowl shaped pot, so it dries out a lot faster than a standard pot full of peat based soil.

    These may be tropical plants, but I've found that (when growing them indoors anyway) the real trick is ensuring they dry out quickly. I also grow mine in a south window where it gets a few hours of direct sun in the winter.

  • amccour
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Weird question.

    When I've seen these die around here -- and it's not just the one I owned. That was a few years ago. I'm talking about the ones I see in stores, mostly -- they're usually dying because the leaves are turning into orange mush. Which looks more fungal than humidity-related to me.

    For the plant I personally had, overly water-retentive soil may have been the problem; however, the corms were fine and even sent up some new leaves during the summer.

    Additionally, most of the alocasias I've seen with this leave rot problem I'm pretty sure were from the same supplier. Which does make me wander if there's something going on with whoever's growing them for the stores around here.

  • pirate_girl
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I too agree that these don't seem to have much chance in ordinary home settings. I too lost one badly a few years ago. Subsequently found out they seem to be semi-aquatic plants. Apparently growing them in bog conditions helps.

  • penfold2
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Apparently growing them in bog conditions helps.

    I don't know about outdoors, but that is the best way to kill them indoors. My first winter with this plant I used a big pot and a soil that took a couple weeks to dry out in winter. I got the same discolored, rotting leaves that others mention. This last winter I changed the pot and soil such that it dries out much more quickly. And I allow it to dry out pretty thoroughly before watering. I had no spots and several new leaves, so that was a definite improvement.

  • greattigerdane
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mine was doing well, for a while that is, then it started to lose a few leaves to yellowing. Instead of keeping the soil moist like peace lilies, I decided to let the soil dry down much more closer to dry, BUT, not completely dried out yet.
    It was also moved to a brighter location where it gets a little bit of direct sun and brighter indirect light. It's
    now putting out a couple of brand new leaves that's I'm very happy about:0)
    The pot is only about an inch bigger around then the root-ball. It's in reg potting soil with perlite and orchids bark chips added which makes for really good drainage.
    Alocasia's will also grow happily in water like for instance, peace lilies and pothos.
    If the roots are rotting, you will need to cut those bad ones off, leaving only healthy ones, and maybe use a better draining soil that won't stay suffocating wet for to long.

    Billy Rae

  • tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thought I was losing my alocasia after the first summer I had it until I discovered it was going dormant. Kept it outside on a porch and didn't bring it in until temps dropped to about 40. Well, at about 45 F they start to shut down (and may take a year to fire up again). Fortunately mine put up a new leaf in a month. Still summer it on the porch and in an east window in the house in winter and water when dry-ish. Three years and counting.

    tj

  • marquest
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Not an easy plant. I have it in a mixed pot for the patio.
    I thought mine was dead but because it was in a pot with a begonia I did not dig it out. When I put the pot outside for the Summer it started to grow.

    I kept the begonia moist all winter in a sunny window (as much sun as you can get in the winter in PA) next to the radiator. It was treated like my begonia since it is in the same pot. I have had it 3 years.

    Conclusion: In my climate what works for me has been just give it as much sun as possible in the winter and keep it extremely warm.

  • marquest
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Below is what I found and the websites with more info....

    Even though some websites claim Alocasia Amazonica is difficult to grow, in fact it is easy. The trick is you must provide the plant the conditions it requires. This hybridized specimen will not do well as a "house plant" on the interior of a home unless it is receiving at least moderately bright light. You also cannot fail to water the plant on a regular basis. This is a hybrid of rain forest specimens and requires damp (not muddy) conditions to prosper. However, like many Alocasia sp., if planted out doors Alocasia Amazonica will often go dormant when the temperatures drop below 12.75C (55 degrees F) and you may not see it for some months until spring and warmer weather returns. In most cases the specimen will grow again once the temperatures rise and stabilize again. But the specimen will not tolerate a freeze!

    http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Alocasi ... %20pc.html

    http://www.weekendgardener.net/housepla ... zonica.htm

  • bobmark226
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm a little puzzled by all the negatives about Alocasia Amazonica indoors, because I've had one thriving indoors for nearly five years! It was bought at a supermarket, it gets indirect diffused light in a large west window which has a roof overhang that virtually eliminates direct sun excepting late in the afternoon when the sun is low. It adds two or three new leaves each year,,,,did it already for this year, I hope maybe more to come? I keep it relatively moist and the only setback it ever had was when a nursery person told me to let it dry out, which turned out to be a bad idea because the bigger leaves crisped up on the edges.

    And while I have a lot of houseplants, mostly ferns and begonias, I'm not exactly a houseplant whiz. But in this case, apparently I'm doing something right! :-)

    Bob

  • mullenkedheim
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have an alocasia cucullata that I bought at the dollar store of all places. At the time, it was in a tiny pot not much bigger than the corm, and had one leaf. I watered it every other day last summer, and by autumn two new leaves had appeared. I pretty much only watered it in winter when the stalks the leaves live on were no longer turgid. every day i'd give them the "bounce test", as I like to think of it. lift the leaf gently and see how it falls. when they were a wee bit floppy, a drink.

    come spring, i repotted it into a larger pot, fresh potting mix, and water every couple days and fertilized with some dollar store 'foliage fertilizer' of unknown composition. after repotting, it shot out 4 new leaves, one of them freakin' huge.

    So, i'm growing it indoors, and not having any trouble, despite the "this isn't going to live inside" camp. (shrug) I'm just lucky though.

  • carolnj38
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was just thinking of saying the same as Bob, I have had my alocasia over 2 yrs. Was purchased from Home Depot, I also keep mine moist , never put outside, my book says semi shady to shady, but I have it in a west window so it gets defused light,sometimes a little sun thru sheer curtains, it just loves this spot, getting new plants on the bottom which I will probably repot.
    Sure is a beautiful plant, one of my favorites,
    good luck with yours, everybody, Carol

  • hookilau
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    While I realize this is an old thread, I was wondering how everyone's Alocasia is doing. I bought one recently, enamored by it's growing habit 8)

    It's still in the original mix it was shipped to me in. Currently I'm planning on re-potting into the gritty mix for winter, I'm in zone 7a, LI, NY.

    It's outside on my patio & it gets full afternoon sun from about 3pm to sundown, which is about 8pm during the summer. I just noticed a severe mealy bug infestation (thank you ebay ;/ seller). Too late, I already left + feedback, but whatevs. I peeled back the leaves & peered down the stalks where there was a large population. Shot it up with soapy water & I guess we'll see where it goes.

    If it gets too bad, I guess I'll just cut off the stalks.

    Anyhow, I was interested in hearing how everyone's indoor by winter, outdoor by summer container grown Alocasia is doing =)

    Antoinette

  • pirate_girl
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Antoinette,

    Generally folks will start a new thread rather than resume such an old one (more than 2 yrs.) but anyway. (I don't grow these, but have seen some over the yrs.)

    I'd encourage you to post it again as a separate thread & particularly to check on the ID. This doesn't look like an Alocasia to me. I could be wrong, but it reminds me more of Anthurium or some kind of Philodendron. I'd wish for the rest of the group to see it & weigh in, I think they're likelier to do that on a new thread.

    Looks pretty good, quite nice on the striped chaise, actually. Guess you'll see how it goes as you said, good luck.

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Colocasia close enough? That's a full size carpet petunia bloom being used to get a feel for the size of the leaf. This is the first year for this plant, so I expect even larger leaves next year - the leaves this year are currently at their largest so far and running in the 45" range. It's from a "Thai Giant" start I got from a friend. The wind, you can see, is really hard on this plant - it needs more protection, and it's soo hard to keep up with this plants N needs. Itsa huge nitrogen hog!

    Al

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Second year for this plant in the same pot & soil. I actually over-wintered this plant in my attached but unheated garage. I was astounded that it made it through the winter. It too, needs a shot of N. I used to mix a healthy portion of high-N slow release lawn fertilizer (27-3-3 or something close) into the soil when I potted these plants, and it was very helpful. I didn't do that this year, but I'll go back to the practice next year.

    Al

  • tropicbreezent
    11 years ago

    I'd agree with Pirate Girl, it does look like an Anthurium (although not a philodendron).

  • Trail_Mix
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey all, I'm new to this board, though I am a big fan of this forum, having found it very useful and informative in the past. I'm from New York, my name's Tommy, and while I love plants of all kinds, my focus right now is on collecting Aroids. I also love succulents, especially those from South Africa, as well as cycads and caudicaforms, though I don't get enough light in my apartment to keep many, and I don't have enough room for many of the larger growing specimens. However, despite being an avid Aroid enthusiast, I'm no expert on Alocasias, nor do I have much experience with them, so hopefully someone who knows more than I do about this subject will chime in.

    I just picked up my second Alocasia recently, and though it has bloomed twice since I got it, it's starting to show some signs of stress, and has a wilting leaf that will need to be removed which worries me, so I'm trying to read up on my new plant and I thought I'd share my insights. One of my biggest problems with plants is correctly identifying their problems, since my apartment is filled to the brim with houseplants, aquariums, ripariums, terrariums, and emersed bins with rare Aroids from Borneo.

    Anyway, back to Alocasias. I think this genus is too broad to speak in generalities, and you really have to try and figure out what type of Alocasia you have first, as best you can, before you can determine its needs.

    There's no doubt, Alocasias can be a tricky bunch, but imo they are well worth the effort, and to those that say they can't be grown as houseplants, well I say, it depends on which species of Alocasia you have! I mean some of them won't even fit indoors! (Unless you're rich and have an atrium or something like that...) When happy, they are, (again, imo), some of the most beautiful houseplants around. Although before purchasing one, I'd definitely suggest doing a little reading on the different types of so-called Elephant Ear and/or Taro plants, since there is a lot of confusion. These types of plants grow literally all around the world, back to back from the jungles of Brazil to Borneo. Alocasias can be easily confused with Colocasias, Xanthosomas, and even other members of the family Araceae. For instance, Antoinette, I believe the plant you have is what is known as a Homalomena 'Emerald Gem,' but again, speaking as an avid Aroid enthusiast, these plants can be very tricky to identify for a number of reasons which I will delve into.

    There are several factors which make identifying Aroids especially tricky. First of all, there are literally thousands of Aroids that are not yet taxonimically described, with new varieties being discovered on a near daily basis. To further the difficulty with Aroids, they are usually taxonomically identified and described based on their inflorescence. However, if you take a look at the genus Bucephalandra, and/or Cryptocorne, you will see that many different varieties of the same "species," are endemic to a certain region or even a single stream, and their appearance can be drastically different. Not to mention the occasional hybridization that can occur naturally. And furthermore, based on their growing conditions, the same plant can appear like a totally different plant. This is especially the case with aquatic Aroids, which have immersed and emersed leaves. And that's not all, take for instance, a common Philodendron vine. You know, the kind with the "heart" shaped leaves you typically see. Well, in nature, they can grow larger and develop pinnate leaves!

    Plus, botanists are constantly revising different genera of Araceae and re-naming plants, so a plant you might have bought under the name "X" may have since changed to "Y" and again to "Z" and so on and so forth.

    And that's just dealing with plants grown in nature! Depending where your plant was purchased from, it was most likely grown in cultivation, such as the common Alocasia 'Polly.'

    Now, if you look at the genus Aglaonema, another one of my favorites, (sidenote: these were some of the first plants grown as ornamental house plants, with records showing them being kept hundreds of years ago by the Chinese), there are new hybrids and cultivars created constantly, further adding to the confusion. And they also produce many different looking cultivars in Thailand, which tend to be very colorful and smaller, versus the larger greener ones being developed in Florida. Though to me, this shroud of mystery is part of the allure of Aroids, and is probably why I'm so obsessed with them. It's like Pokémon, gotta catch 'em all!

    Bottom line, try and figure out what type of habitat your plant would grow in naturally, and try and mimic those conditions to the best of your abilities. In general, I have found Aroids to be very adaptable, and very forgiving, though I do not know if this is the case with Alocasias. Sorry for such a long post! If you made it this far, shoot me an e-mail or message and let me know what type of plants or Aroids you collect, and if you have any plants for sale or anything you could send my way, or even just something to look for, I'm always on the hunt for cool new plants. Unfortunately, my severe case of collectoritis has rendered me quite broke right now lol, oh well...

  • pirate_girl
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi TrailMix & Welcome,

    Am a bit confused, you say you're new here, but your Member Page says registered in June '13; guess maybe you've been at other Forums (like Aroids). Interesting, your Birthday is 2 days before mine.

    Well anyway, just a caution & suggestion that you pls. read the Rules & Terms of Service, as the end of your post mentions SALE which is prohibited here.

    If you go to the Exchange Page (at the top of many of these forums), that's the designated place for Swaps & Trades, sale or even the mention of money is prohibited. One needs to list what one wants & what one will trade for it or point folks to a trade list.

    Personally, I don't try Alocasias anymore, am in an apartment, w/ dry heat & they didn't like my environment. But grow other Aroids including ZZs which I've grown from single leaves & enjoy doing.

  • anna tong
    6 years ago

    Hi there! I just got an Amazon elephant's ear a few months ago and didn't realize that I needed to water it frequently. Now I am doing that. There is a new leaf that is very pale/gray and droopy- I was wondering if you could help diagnose what is amiss? I really appreciate it!

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    It's on the outside of the crown, so it's an older leaf. The plant has received chemical messengers telling it the leaf isn't pulling its own weight (it was using more energy than it was producing), so it's in the process of being shed. The pigment that makes leaves green (chlorophyll) has broken down and the magnesium component of the chlorophyll has been translocated to other plant parts, along with other mobile nutrients and biocompounds.

    As the (downward only) flow of a specific hormone (auxin) slowed, an abscission layer began to form at the base of the leaf. When that layer is complete and the leaf is completely isolated from the plant proper, the leaf will shrivel and fall off on its own, or you can remove it with a gentle tug, or snip it off close to the crown.

    Try to make sure the plant is not sitting in the effluent that exits the drain hole and collects in the cache pot. I set my plants up on blockage so there is no pathway by which the effluent can make its way back into the soil.

    Al

  • anna tong
    6 years ago

    Thank you, Al! Super helpful. Any advice on where to put it in the house? I just moved it to a south facing window and am planning to water it frequently so the soil stays damp, but there seem to be conflicting pieces of advice on light and soil conditions for these guys.

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    6 years ago

    Sorry for the very tardy reply, Anna. I've been busy with familial illnesses, and busy at work due to same. A south facing window is fine. On very sunny days when it's getting direct light, you should have a fan in the room to create some air movement. Plants that like full sun outdoors get something less than 80% of the light through glass, sometimes as little as 40%. Light load isn't the issue you need to guard against, but heat build-up is. Leaves are surrounded by a boundary layer of still air that traps heat created when light strikes the leaf surfaces. Essentially, the leaf acts as a passive solar collector, turning light to heat, which is trapped by the boundary layer of still air acting as an insulator. Disrupt the boundary layer and heat escapes into the surrounding air.

    Many growers erroneously believe that because some plants grow in boggy conditions in situ, it must follow that they would prefer boggy conditions in a pot. This is very far from true. Plants growing in bogs or at streamside adapt by growing a root system that is much different from terrestrial plants. Their root system is filled with an airy pith called aerenchyma (as opposed to parenchyma in plants the roots of which are growing in a solid medium. Roots can't make the back and forth transition between the two types of roots without great sacrifice in growth/vitality; and, some can't make the transition at all. Your plant will grow best in a medium that can be kept evenly moist without supporting any significant amounts of perched water. If you're determined to up your proficiency at keeping plants happy, and you aren't familiar with that term, you probably should be. A perched water table in a pot is not a good thing, and eliminating it through soil choice or by methods unrelated to soil choice likely represents the largest single step forward a container gardener can take.

    Al

  • Paul MI
    6 years ago

    I will add that Amazonica likes it hot -- provided it has sufficient moisture.


  • anna tong
    6 years ago

    Thanks Al and Paul! I've moved it and am keeping the soil moist (while making sure the soil is properly draining), and it seems to be doing better.

  • dontaskmetosmile
    6 years ago

    My Alocasia is looking fairly good, except for the two leaves drooping here. The plant seems fairly healthy otherwise, with 6 new growths just showing. I haven’t watered it in a week as it’s still dripping (guttation? guttating?) from its tips. Is there anything I’m doing wrong? Is his just the plant’s way of making way for the new leaves?



  • HU-62485411
    4 years ago

    Humidity is important! Strongly recommend get a bigger saucer and filling it with pebbles and then water. Water should be below rock surface. As the water in the tray evaporates it will create humidity for your plant. Second, this plant wants the first two inches of soil in the pot to dry before watering. There is no day to water, just check everyday with your finger. A way to know is if your soil feels moist, or even cooler than usual that’s a good hint that the soil still has moisture to be used and doesn’t need watering. I’d also recommend not using a big pot. They will rot with excess water and a bigger pot holds more water, and water your plants roots can’t get to. I use regular indoor potting soil and add perlite. Mine is a year old now. Winter is a sleeping season and they won’t use a lot of water so Check check check! And I’d say go a little drier. Not bone dry, but they just aren’t using the water like they are when growing. Some might go completely dormant and all the leaves will wither. I’d leave it alone and not water at that point. Leave in pot in the same place until you see growth again in the spring or summer.

  • Angeline Ungersbock
    3 years ago

    Hi everyone, I was scouring the internet for a specific elephant ear: The alocasia borneo giant (thai giant, Giant elephant ear), To grow 3 to 4m tall for a specific area in out garden. We have jet irrigation above ground which comes on every day from a borehole and we have very good soil there.

    The problem is... I can't seem to find one!! In the Western Cape

  • Shaina Mack
    3 years ago

    Hi tapla you seem to have alot of knowledge about Alocasia plants. Mine is an Alocasia odora and isn't doing well. The leaves are yellow and seem mushy almost rotting. There are small flies constantly on and buzzing around the plant. It looks listless. I've lost about 8 leaves at this point. Any suggestions you have for me would be greatly appreciated. Anyone else who could offer help or insight would be greatly appreciated!





  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    3 years ago

    Am I seeing where one of the stems rotted off (last image)?

    Where is the nearest light source and what direction does the window face?

    How long has the plant been in that pot?

    What are you fertilizing with - how often - NPK %s of the fertilizer, please?

    When you water, does the plant sit in the effluent that exits the drain hole?

    By what metric do you determine when it's time to water?

    Al

  • mimosveta
    last year

    hi. I have bought two alocasias zebrinas in one pot, and one amaznica, and all three have been on their way out ever since I bought them. I couldn't for the life of me figure out when to water them, each time I watered them, they would start to cry, so i assumed that meant they want less water, but either way, leaves were yellowing, and all three ended up with no leaves at all. I'm not exaggerating, not a single leaf was left among three of them


    so I dug them out of the soil, and I got some clay balls, they sort of look like what americans call leca, just smaller and less round, so it may be some other brand of the same thing, or another thing entirely. we don't have leca as such in serbia, and when I bought this, the seller insisted it was not "expanded clay" so, I don't know, I bought it with intention to use it as leca, and it behaves like leca, so I'm sure you can achieve the same thing with leca


    the important thing with leca to remember, is to use jars with wide opening, no narrowing of any kind, or you'll have to break the container to get them out. and you want to use glass, as it's transparent


    so, I popped all of the main roots, as well the little bobs of new roots that were growing out of it, and I put them in glass jars, in that pretend leca, and kept watering them. The idea with this method is that you can see how much water there is, and you don't have to guess. you want root to have access to water, but also to have access to air, which is really hard to achieve in soil, but really easy in leca or similar substrate. you just water it to the top, and then wait till all of water is gone to water again. no guessing required.


    since then, my amazonica grew one leaf, it's not the prettiest leaf ever, it's bent, but it's there, and one zebrina has one leaf, the other one has two, and one of the small roots sprouted a new tiny leaf. so, zebrina looks much better cause both roots are in the same jar, and it has way more leaves than amazonica, but important thing is that they're back to life from having no leaves at all


    I can also see that most of the little rootlets on amazonica have some growth, but nothing reached the surface yet


    of course, in my case, roots were healthy and in your not so much, so I'd advise to get them out of the soil and search if there are little baby roots you could use, that may not be rotten. I have seen a guy cut up a rotten part of the root, on tiktok, but I don't remember if he later confirmed if it worked. it does seem like at this point you have very little choice. you could not cut the root (I'm highly suspicious that would work anyway) and just pull it out of soil and clean it with 3% hydrogen and sprinkle with cinnamon, as those might stop the infection, and let the whole thing dry out but not dry up, and then try with leca. if it works great, if it doesn't, it just means you were too late.


    I know for sure that next time I get an alocasia, it's going straight into clay and no soil for it. I have yet to figure out how to fertilize it tho


    oh yeah, the leca thing, I saw a girl on youtube talk about starting new plants from those rootlets, and she tried all kinds of things, and had best success with leca, that's why I tried that, I was like "well, it's either dead or I will kill it so I might as well try this" and it worked wonders, so to all who struggle, you can try it, and you can try to find her video, maybe she has some more info I forgot about

Sponsored
Ed Ball Landscape Architecture
Average rating: 4.8 out of 5 stars30 Reviews
Exquisite Landscape Architecture & Design - “Best of Houzz" Winner