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P.S.-The Hoyan
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Posted by denise 5 (My Page) on Sun, Dec 9, 07 at 6:55
| Do any of you ever read this? I've been directed to several "articles" (if that's what you want to call them) from that website when I put in a search on a particular Hoya. The whole purpose of the site is to correct (though I would use the words "rip apart"...) mistakes made in the publication The Hoyan. On the homepage, the author states "I will endeavor to be 100% accurate but, being human, I'm bound to make mistakes. If you find any, please point them out to me. If you prove me wrong, I'll promptly correct myself." Yet I could never find anything on the site that revealed the author's name or e-mail address. Not that I found any mistakes, mind you, and not that I would ever be foolish enough to QUESTION this person's "authority" thus setting myself up to be dissected and called names...
Anyway, unless I've been misled, I finally found out that the website belongs to Christine Burton. I've heard she can be ruthless, but I'm amazed that anyone would be that mean and vile in print! I know some of you frequent her forum and I just wonder if anyone knows why she can't make corrections without bringing it down to a level of making personal attacks on people? She may, indeed, be a great authority in the world of Hoyas, but with that attitude and degree of meanness, I can see why she's made so many enemies.
I think I'll take my chances with the experts who may, occasionally, be mistaken but who can at least be kind and answer questions without attacking their peers...
Denise in Omaha
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Follow-Up Postings:
RE: P.S.-The Hoyan
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| Denise, I think that if you are looking for accurate info on hoyas, that would most likely be the place to find it. For someone who wants it to be sugar coated and loving towards everyone, you would have to look elsewhere. I myself would rather have the correct information, and just try to overlook the personal stuff. I agree alot of it isn't necessary, but that's life, not everyone is going to express themselves in a way that we all can be comfortable with, so what can you do? She's still one of the top experts on hoyas, and that took alot of years and time of study, no small feat with all the information that is out there, and I respect that. |
RE: P.S.-The Hoyan
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| Ines, I know she's considered a top expert, but I DO take offense to the way she talks with such utter disdain about others who have knowledge to share. Is it really so hard to be both informed AND decent? I don't think so - I've communicated with so many kind-hearted people with expertise in different plant groups over the years and all were enthusastic to share their knowledge and never demeaning when correcting my assumptions, errors, etc. I'm glad that her demeanor doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth, but it certainly does in mine! Denise in Omaha |
RE: P.S.-The Hoyan
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Denise, I feel the same way you do. I check out her forum Hoyas R Us just to see if she mellowed over the years. Her website seems to be 'ME ME ME is all the matters'.
I go for info, but will not post fquestions or state anything there. There are more friendly people elsewhere. |
RE: P.S.-The Hoyan
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| Denise, I feel the exact same way. I am in utter disbelief whenever I read her words (mostly when on her Hoyas R Us forum and when she makes corrections). No matter how knowledgable she is, [to me] her disgusting manner of communicating discredits any knowledge she has to offer. There is a nice way to spread your knowledge around, and she simply does not know how to do this. I'm sure if any of us have researched hoyas for as long as she has, we would be JUST as knowledgable (if not more)....so I don't see why she thinks she has any right to demean anyone. Besides, there are plenty of people out there who are VERY knowledgable on hoyas and who share their information in a *much* nicer way. If it angers her so much to share her knowledge, then why does she?? Gabi |
RE: P.S.-The Hoyan
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| whether or not it bothers me isn't the point. To tell you the truth, I don't really know her any better than most people I have met online. Maybe I don't take it too seriously because people misunderstand ME all the time in this context, I am surprised at times to hear the negative impression some people get from me online, because it doesn't happen the same way in my face to face "real life" interactions. So much is lost when you communicate this way. Anyway, I definately understand what you all are saying and how you feel, I just try to keep it in context. It really isn't that important - kind of one of those "it is what it is" things. Also, I think all those PS the Hoyan things are old, aren't they? I didn't think she was putting them out anymore, could be wrong though. |
RE: P.S.-The Hoyan
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Hey Jen,
I see what you're saying about people reading things a different way than they are meant. But the difference between you and C. Burton is that there is no misunderstanding her!! She is just outright mean - no misconception in that. If things you say are taken negatively, it's not clear-cut like it is with her - and you always explain how you *really* meant what you said. Anyway, I have read very current posts from her on her forum, and they are just as mean as ever. Also, I just checked and the latest issue of P.S. The Hoyan was written in July 2007 - I doubt she changed much since then unless she had some major psychotherapy :) |
Here is a link that might be useful: Recent Hoyan issue from this Summer
RE: P.S.-The Hoyan
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| I know what you mean about writing as opposed to speaking. You hear tones with speaking, and tones can completely change the meaning of what's said. I'm one of those people who says things in a funny-sarcastic way sometimes, but I try to avoid that in writing because it only comes off as sarcastic when I can't laugh and roll my eyes when I say it. But I just can't imagine how people in the Hoya world tolerate her utter disrespect. Did you see that she refers to Carol N. of you-know-where as "Mrs. Quack" and then goes on to trash her opinions? (And a lot of them ARE more opinion than hard fact, and most I agree with...) I don't have a problem with her making corrections to HARD facts, and I don't have a problem with her expressing her opinion when it differs from others on gray areas (like watering, light, dormancy, etc...) But she has to first squash the competition, as if only one of them can be right and it MUST always be her. This is what one Hoya person told me... "About Chris, don't consider yourself a member in good standing of the hoya club unless you have been crucified by Chris. XXX and I are charter members." (I elminated the name at "XXX") I thought there might be a bit of oversensitivity there until I really started readying PS-The Hoyan... Denise in Omaha |
RE: P.S.-The Hoyan
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I was once a member on Hoyas R Us but got thrown off because I hadn't filled in some profile information. Not only did I not know that I hadn't filled this information in, I had been ill at the time and CB had just decided that everyone who hadn't filled in their information by a certain date, they were off. No second chances.
I often stop reading what she's trying to say because of her attitude. But in a way I can kind of understand it. However, you have to remember that she makes mistakes too - just look at the DS-70/tsangii debacle. |
RE: P.S.-The Hoyan
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| I would have to say that I agree with Denise although I thought Denise has been around the hoya world for a long time that she would have discovered Ms. Burton before now. :) A very close friend of Christine Burton says that in person she is a wonderful, kind person so I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt but I still can't take reading her words for very long. Susan |
RE: P.S.-The Hoyan
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| Well, I try & stay out of all this as it's a no-win situation. I stay here on GW Hoyas where I feel it's generally accepted that there's room for all us w/ our varying degrees of Hoya knowledge & expertise. I focus on growing the plants I love & read the nomenclature changes w/ a large grain of salt. Other than for trading purposes, the naming doesn't matter that much to me. I'd 1st heard from her thru a Hoya Q I had posted at the Amateur Digest, whwere Marina apparently referred my Q to her or she just responded. A number of yrs. later she denied ever making the response she did (I prolly still have the EM containing it but ..., had to do w/ the 'speckles' like those of Pubicalyx being sugary & that one could eat it). From what I've gathered over the yrs. abt "the warring factions" in Hoyadom, this animosity is quite old & I think has DECADES of history to it. Nothing I need be involved in. I just read the knowledge & retain what makes sense to me & otherwise try to stay out of the fray. To agree w/ several comments above, they're seem at least a few Hoya folks out there willing & able to share info in civil ways, more my cup of tea. |
RE: P.S.-The Hoyan
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| Susan, that's very interesting about her being kind in person. This comment makes me think of my Dad, who was just the nicest person you'd ever want to know. He was smart and a little quirky, but was never ever confrontational. If you ticked him off, he'd never say anything to your face, but then here would come a letter in the mail with scathing commentary and outright name-calling. Then the next time you'd see him, it was as if nothing happened... Maybe Christine is like that - just doesn't understand the art of diplomatic arguing and, instead, trashes the other guy in making her point... Anyway, you've got the right idea, Karen. Just steer clear of the nastiness and glean what we need from the commentary. I guess it takes all kinds to make the world go round! Denise in Omaha |
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