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melliny_gw

Is this a Hoya?

Melliny
9 years ago

I bought this plant with no identifying tag attached thinking it might be some kind of hoya. Does anyone know what it is? The leaves are small for a hoya. They turn red where the light hits them. Thank you.

Comments (46)

  • greedygh0st
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It looks like you have my favorite little buddy, Hoya sp. DS-70. Doug has an excellent photograph of his plant with similar coloration in play. Prepare yourself for the fragrance of warm homemade caramel when it blooms. And it will bloom a lot, once mature!

    The majority of Hoyas do have larger leaves, but there are still many that have leaves this size or even smaller. :)

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How exciting! I was hoping, but was starting to think maybe not. I have loved Hoyas ever since first seeing them as a houseplant, living in Iowa. I could never give them a happy life indoors, but now that I live in Central FL, have been successful with getting them to thrive outdoors (only carnosa so far). I’m hoping to get a little collection going, keeping them in a protected place and trying to collect relatively cold hardy ones. It can be hard to get specific information about minimum temps the different kinds will tolerate. Thank you so much for your prompt response.

    Can I ask you another question? At the Wal Mart where I got this DS 70, there was another one they were calling carnosa, but it didn’t look like a carnosa to me. The leaves were very round with a pointed tip��"otherwise it was colored like a variegated carnosa. Do you have an opinion about what this might be?

    Melliny

  • greedygh0st
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Without seeing a picture it's hard to comment. But if you saw it at a Walmart, there's a limit to how many Hoyas it could be, as there aren't that many types that show up at BBS.

    My gut says it's (in order of likelihood) either:
    (a.) a pothos plant (when I Googled "Hoya Exotic Angel" I was directed to this page which displays a picture of a pothos labeled as a Hoya.)
    (b.) a variegated carnosa that was grown in different conditions than yours, causing its leaves to be shaped differently.
    (c.) Hoya polyneura - this doesn't really match your description, but it's the only other variegated Hoya EA carries other than the lacunosas.

    Joni has a listing of temperature tolerances compiled by the Liddles posted here.

    I'm glad you're having more fun growing Hoyas in Florida. I'm growing them in the middle of nowhere Iowa, myself. ;)

  • moonwolf_gw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Beautiful Hoya, Melliny! Here in Central PA, Hoyas do beautifully, but not as nice as they would be in sunny, humid Florida.

    My local Wal-Mart's choice of EA plants haven't included Hoyas lately, but I'm always on the lookout, especially for more lacunosas.

    Brad AKA Moonwolf

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh no! I have the "pothos" growing all over the place and up my oaks. I give away or dump garbage bags full of it every summer. It's pretty, but can overwhelm in my particular ecosystem. At least lately. 20 years ago, it stayed small...really almost died out. More recently, the winters are milder (no hard freezes at my place) and the summers wetter. So the "hoya" I saw at the wal mart was definitely not a pothos!

    There were 3 Hoyas at this particular wal mart. The reddish one I bought, a fishtail and this other one with the round but pointy leaves. I didn't realize I was in the midst of the mother lode! Anyway, I am headed back today to get the unidentified one labeled as "carnosa" and take a photo for you to identify. I just can't believe it's a carnosa, but maybe it is, and that's part of the learning and the fun. I am not sure about buying the fishtail. It may seem silly to you, but I spend most of my long, hot summers beating back the jungle around here and I hate to take on a rampant grower. It just looks like it would be. Can you share your experience with this one?

    Thank you so much for the temperature chart. So far, I have only bought one in the "intermediate" section (meliflua) and none in the section requiring really warm temps. I don't have the room to drag all my plants inside every time the temperatures dip around here, so need to try not to acquire too many of those.

    Now that I realize Hoyas can show up at Wal Marts, I hit another one yesterday that is in an area where I only occasionally go. It's a big store, but no Hoyas. The one where I found them all is in a little town and a small store. You just never know. I will keep an eye out for "lacunosa" ... haven't seen one yet, but it looks really pretty.

  • greedygh0st
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    LOL Well it's definitely not Pothos then! Can't wait to see a picture of this mystery plant.

    I don't think you should worry about polyneura growing rampant. It's one of those Hoyas, like lobbii and bella, with stiff outward reaching vines that can't really be arranged or redirected much. But it doesn't grow aggressively. In fact, a lot of people find it a bit difficult to grow. It is a cool grower and it likes to be grown very dry. It's also easy to miss the flowers. They aren't particularly small, but since they grow on the underside of the arcing vine, they can hide. I don't find it difficult - you just need to know what to do. Since you are growing outside in Florida, be sure to keep it in the shade and really let it dry out between waterings.

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So, I returned from Wal Mart successful. I did get the polyneura...the tag said it was a slow grower, but my curiosity has gotten so huge right now that I'm willing to gamble a bit anyway just to see what happens. I am surprised that it likes to be so dry. I thought the thin leaved varieties liked more water than the thick leaved ones? My hoya spot is going to get a little bit of morning sun in the summer and that's it. I'll watch for unhappiness, and if I see any, will move them to a shadier spot. Mostly what I have to offer is shade--partial to deep. Do you think a little morning sun would be ok? The western sun is brutal down here, of course, but most of my plants love morning sun.

    I have attached a photo of the hoya with the round leaves--sorry I remembered it as being variegated. I'm afraid I've stared at so many Hoyas on line that they all merge together after a while. But as you can see, the leaves are roundish. There is also a photo of a variegated hoya that I've had for years which I was assuming was carnosa but actually I have no idea. So, the foliage of these two plants doesn't look the same to me (minus the variegation). Anyway, I would appreciate your expert identification of these two plants. Thank you for your help!

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ooops, it doesn't look like the round-leaved hoya photo posted. I am trying again. As you can see, new growth is sort of chocolatey-red.

  • greedygh0st
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have zero experience growing outside in Florida, so I'll let one of the many Florida growers answer that question. I believe a little morning sun would be sufficiently gentle, though.

    Mature polyneura leaves do become fairly succulent by the time they are finished growing, so I'm not sure that I think of it as a thin-leafed Hoya. More like middle-of-the-road.

    Leaf thickness is a good rule of thumb, but I find that it is most useful in two situations:
    (a) very thick leaves (e.g. australis rupicola, pachyclada) usually means the Hoya expects a dry period
    (b) very thin leaves (especially when also broad) (e.g. danumensis, ischnopus) means the Hoya is especially vulnerable to dehydration while rooting.
    It is my experience that most thin-leafed Hoyas like to dry out as much as the others, once they are mature and have a good root system. They may not like a long drought, but they like the same watering schedule as the midweight leaf Hoyas.

    There are Hoyas that like more water, but it seems hard to tell this from their leaves. For example, lacunosa, bella, and scortechinii are all sensitive to underwatering, but they all have thicker leaves than cummingiana, buotii, and Iris Marie, which can handle underwatering like champs.

    It's easy to ID those two from your excellent photos:

    #1 Hoya carnosa 'Rubra' (aka Krimson Princess)
    #2 Hoya carnosa 'Chelsea'

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It is interesting that the carnosas can look so different from each other. There seems to be endless variety with Hoyas. It brings out endless desire for acquisition, doesn't it? I am looking for those plastic marker sticks that you can write on and put in a plant, either in a pot or the ground. This would help me keep the ID's and needs of the various plants straight until I can just remember (if that ever happens). They seem to have clearanced them out of several places since "they" have decided they're no longer needed for the season. Actually, you can keep planting vegetables around here whenever you want between now and when it gets too hot, so their season info is a little skewed.

    Thank you for all the detailed info on watering. Perhaps the information I had (from a seller) was for new plants only, and they were mostly interested in you keeping the new ones alive. I see on this forum that Lowes is a good place to look for Hoyas too, so I'll be checking them out.

    Thanks again, I'm so grateful for this forum.

  • greedygh0st
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yeah, that's true, when plants are young and/or rooting they can't dry out as much.

    There are a gazillion carnosa cultivars, but the main variations are the two variegated ones (Rubra & Tricolor) the two dimpled ones (Chelsea & Krinkle 8) and the two twisty ones (Marlea & Holliana). Then there's also Mathilde & Chouke, Emilio Begine's (carnosa x serpens) crosses.

    They do all look quite different... but there's a familial resemblance for sure. After all, you recognized both of these as looking like carnosa, even though you are new to Hoyas. I think you have excellent horticulture eyes!

    I wish they wouldn't clear out the gardening sections, too. Idk if you like T-labels as well as the stick labels, but I noticed the V-Tek T-labels I use in my pots are 65% off with free shipping on Amazon. That makes them 3.50/100, which is a fair price with free shipping. They aren't my favorite T-label (I like the squarer ones, that provide more writing surface), but they're the most economical, which is good.

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So, I bought 2 more hoya carnosas yesterday at Lowes for my daughter. One is tricolor and the other one is plain. Now I am wondering what kind of advice to give her on watering. The only success I've had with hoya is to hang it outside and occasionally sprinkle it with the hose if it's summer and there hasn't been rain in a while. Hers will be under an overhang, so she will not be able to rely on rain. There is plenty of advice on the net re watering hoya, but if you don't mind, I'd like to hear what you would recommend. (Since I have been a failure in that regard in the past, and my daughter is no green thumb and will need good information.) The hoyas I have bought this week are really soggy with water. The polyneura looks a little weak, but as you've said they really like to be dry, I'm sure it will perk up once it dries out a little. I wish there was some kind of gadget you could stick into the soil that would tell you whether or not it's time to water. And it would be nice to have info on the range of light that various plants like and buy a light meter to see if you can provide them with what they need. I managed to get some of those little labeling sticks at Lowes. Mind you, it took an unusually smart and well informed girl to produce them for me. She had to go get them out of a box somewhere. I was quite shocked, since usually nobody knows anything. I will look at these square ones you mention, as they are unfamiliar to me, but yes, it would be great to log a bunch of info on them! Last night, I looked at my new plants, pointed and recited the names to myself. I have to say DS 70 is a hideous name. So I can call it carnosa rubra? It is actually a carnosa cultivar?

    Thank you for all your help.

  • PRO
    Jan Sword-Rossman Realty 239-470-6061
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    As far as sun exposure in Florida. East sun is great but some of the Hoyas can take partial Western exposure with out any problem for short period of time in screened area.
    I grow all my Hoyas outside under a Pergola w/ shade cloth over it. I had some in screen porch w/ Western exp, it did great.
    I also have some of the Hoyas hanging under a Mango tree and some other trees.

    The only time I don't like the Hoyas being outside is when we get the cold spells.

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Greedyghost--Looking back over these posts, I see that the Tricolor is called Krimson Princess and also Rubra. So, I misunderstood that. But, I still would like to know if there's another name for DS 70. It can't be possible that one hoya can have 3 names and another one has just one crappy one with only initials and numbers?

    Jan1_2007--Thank you for the info. My Tricolor has a little western sun, but my property doesn't allow anyone too much sun, so it's not really typical...what sun there is only lasts until the sun goes behind this or that tree canopy, so rarely do I have overexposure to sun, usually the opposite problem. But my daughter lives south of me and the weather and ecosystem are different. I think her porch has a northern exposure though, so that should work out well for "just right" light. Yes, I've got all my new possibly-tender plants inside too. I know they've all been acclimated to a warmer environment most likely, so I'm not going to thrust them out there in the cold until I know they can take it. Some of them will probably never be able to handle as cold as it gets here and will have to come inside in December, January--even November this year. I live about 30 min. north of Tampa, near Brooksville/Dade City. Where do you live in FL? How often do you water your Hoyas? Is there a difference between how much you water them outside in your pergola and inside when the weather's cold?

  • CrazyPlantLady1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Melliny,
    Welcome to the addictive, crazy, confusing world of hoyas. Just when you think you have a clue about them....BAM!.... another newly discovered variety from the jungles of Borneo or weird cultivar, odd sport or man-made mutation comes to light. And don't even get me started on the confusion of variegated carnosa names like tricolor, Rubra, Exotica, Starwberries and Cream, Krimson Queen and Krimson Princess.

    Nonetheless, the ease of growing and widely diverse foliage and blooms make them quite addicting. Personally, I never thought too much of them before a few years ago. All I had ever seen was the usual carnosa varieties. But then, I saw a Hoya compacta, Mauna Loa......it was like heroin. Now, I have so many and always looking for more.

    Some would say that Hoya DS-70 and Hoya tsangi are one in the same. But, I would defer to the experience of GG on that one. She is the self-appointed president of the DS-70 fan club.

    I'm in north Texas. I leave mine outside in the shade until the temps drop into the 50's. Then, I have to bring them in for the winter. They will tolerate a few hours of very early morning or very late afternoon sun, which really brings out the pinks and purples on the leaves.

    Enjoy your journey! The hoya-heads here have a wealth of info and experience and are very helpful with any questions you have.
    Kathy

  • PRO
    Jan Sword-Rossman Realty 239-470-6061
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In Winter, I only hose them down once a week. But inside I stick my finger into the soil to see if they are dry before I water.
    In Summer, I leave mine out in rainy season but I take all the saucers off the pots so they don't drown.

  • greedygh0st
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    @ Melliny

    I know what you mean about nobody knowing anything in the gardening section. In every other section of the store, you can be properly directed, but I always groan when a gardening employee approaches me to be 'helpful' because they know about as much as if they just walked in off the street. They must stick all the noobies in there.

    If it's really damp, I know someone on here uses a trick where they take off the drainage tray and stick twists of paper towel in the holes in the bottom, to wick out the excess moisture faster.

    To see when they need watering, you can stick a bamboo skewer in there and when you pull it out, and the bottom is pale and dry instead of wet, then you'll know the pot is ready to be watered. But I usually just lift the pot to see how heavy it is, or stick a finger in there like Jan.

    As far as names go:

    Correct, Hoya sp. DS-70 is not a carnosa. It is an unnamed Hoya. When new species are collected but not identified or formally published, they are called by the accession number the collector gave them. Like IML (Iris Marie Liddle) or GPS (Gerrard Paul Shirley), the DS probably stands for a collector's initials, and then it's #70 in the collection. I read once that DS might stand for David Silver, but that is an unconfirmed theory as far as I know. It was originally published as Hoya tsangii, but that turned out not to be inaccurate. The real tsangii is in many collections now, including mine, and has a very different appearance. Its leaves are long, thin, shiny-smooth and pointed and its flowers yellow. It also blooms its head off, with a sweet scent, and is a very nice plant. Meanwhile DS-70 has no other name, so we must go on calling it that. But, you know what Shakespeare says, "a rose by any other name would smell as sweet," so DS-70 may be a little robot name, but it sounds sweet to me, because of my love for the plant.

    As far as variegated carnosas go, there are two different ones. The one you have is Hoya carnosa Rubra (Krimson Princess) and it has variegation on the inside of the leaf. Hoya carnosa Tricolor (Krimson Queen) has variegation on the outside of the leaves. The Krimson names are their old Trademark names, which have since expired and are no longer valid. But most people still call them that out of habit.

  • greentoe357
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Robot name" haha! Well, DS-70 is as adorable as C-3PO, maybe even more!

    My advice for sogging-wet pots with too water-retentive soil is to take the root ball out (if it can stay as one piece) and wrap it into many layers of rags or newspapers. You might need to change the newspapers or wring out the rags multiple times, but they do wick that water off really nicely. I would also leave that wrapped ball of roots, once it stops dripping like crazy, on yet more levels of newspapers or rags, flat on the ground, and let it be like that for a few hours or overnight. Wicking plus evaporation work wonders.

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you all for your tips and info. I was gone for the weekend, but before I left, hit a bunch of bb stores in a different area. Yay! I found 2 more! This time Brevialata. There were 2 at a Lowes store. I reached above my head to take one down for closer inspection and to see if it were really a hoya, and the saucer dumped cold water down my arm. So, of course it wasn't looking that well. There was a healthier one (not sitting in water) and also having an ID tag, so I just bought both of them. This is my first hoya with the "fuzzy leaves" that I've seen people write about. Maybe I'll find someone who wants to trade, and if not, I'm happy to have both of them. After reading these good tips in here from everyone who has run into the overwatering before, I pulled off the saucer at home and set it on paper towels with real towels underneath until it quit giving off water. It looks a lot better now, pretty quick to start recovering. The only hoya I have that concerns me is a Meliflua that came through the mail. It was just a couple of long stems, one having some healthy leaves and then several leaves were obviously just treated with hormone and stuck in the pot before mailing. One new leaf on one of the stems has yellowed and withered. It is probable that I am just not watering it enough, since this is a very new plant with leaves in the soil that are trying to root. I know there's another thread about Meliflua, and I need to read about what's been said before I drive everyone nuts with my questions. Thank you all again.

  • greentoe357
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You're not driving anyone nuts with questions. That is why this form exists - for questions. So, fire away.

    I am confused by a few things though.

    > This is my first hoya with the "fuzzy leaves"

    The one you posted at the very top, the initial message - that one is slightly fuzzy as well, no?

    > Maybe I'll find someone who wants to trade, and if not, I'm happy to have both of them.

    You can trade cuttings and still retain the plant. Or are both plants exactly the same and you want to trade the whole potted plant? Big plants are hard and expensive to ship, with likely more damage than cuttings, so trading them is challenging.

    Re overwatering in stores - you gotta watch for that, it's true. The danger is not so much the water that is accumulated, and the need to soak it all up, but the rot that may have started in there because of all that water having been there for a long time before you got there. Root rot may not manifest itself for a while above the ground, and by the time one notices, roots may all be gone. So, I try to check roots on all the plants I buy - even if they were not standing in a puddle when I found it - I check both visually and sniff the soil for any stale rotten smells.

    Once a plant has been growing with me though, I personally find overwatering less of a problem than what I often hear. I wait till the soil dries a bit or a lot, depending on what the plant likes, and then I water slowly but generously. Water is often left in the shallow saucer - but then as roots absorb it, and as moisture evaporates from the top of the soil, that puddle is gradually reabsorbed into the pot, so I do not find that standing water a problem, typically.

    Exceptions, for me, are if the plant is growing cold and dark (not enough intensity or duration of light), if the plant is already stressed by something and likely would not absorb that much water, or if the water does not get reabsorbed within half a day or so even if the plant is healthy - then I dump it and water less in the future.

    Your mileage may vary, of course.

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you greentoe for what sounds like a successful watering regimen for Florida. Last summer was so rainy here that I hardly had to water anything. The saucer is still on my older (5-8 years?) carnosa crimson princess, but I've never repotted it, so it is probably pretty root bound and not likely to rot in there. Which makes me wonder about repotting. Would you re-pot a plant like this? I've never fertilized it. A little water when the weather is dry in the summer is the max it's gotten from me. It may sound like neglect, but not really. When I hovered over my Hoyas, they died. I am seeking a better middle ground. Do you all fertilize them? Hoyas look difficult to re-pot. Their leaves break off so easily. I keep moving my new ones around during this time when the temps are low and I have to be so careful about not breaking the leaves.

    The brevialata are smaller plants than the others I've bought from the bb stores (maybe a 6" pot?), and look exactly the same, except one has more yellowish leaves and one has darker leaves. (see photo) I think the one with the paler leaves was the over watered one. I guess I could lose one of these plants, so it doesn't hurt anything to have an extra. One of the plants I received through the mail (pubicalyx) was about the same size (maybe a 5 1/2" pot?) and took the trip from S FL just fine. It was one-day shipping. I'm sure it's not the cheapest way to go, but I would rather start out with a nice, robust, rooted plant than one like the Meliflua I got that is one stringy, rooted cutting and the rest unrooted leaves. If I were more experienced, I guess that would be fine, but I worry about killing it. And I'm 67, so just don't feel like waiting on them to grow any more, want to enjoy them as robust plants ASAP ! Maybe I'll get over some of this attitude and make my own cuttings at some point. But right now, I have a project that I'm inspired to be working on, and it requires a number of healthy plants, many of which will be Hoyas.

    Yes, the DS 70 is fuzzy! I didn't notice that! I was expecting a much deeper nap of fuzz from people's descriptions and didn't realize I'd really have to look closely to even know it was there.

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    And here is the Meliflua that is my most pitiful hoya at present. Please feel free to comment on these photos, if you have some ideas about what their appearance may mean in terms of care. This meliflua came from a hoya grower in FL and the soil mix has perlite in it and dries quickly. The brevialata are in a mix that has vermiculite and I don't see any perlite.

  • aurorawa
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Don't even look at that meliflua when it is producing new leaves! Mine will promptly abort new leaves if it is even peripherally glanced at! Apparently, I am not the only one. They all look fine, to me. As long as they are in a well draining medium, get the appropriate nutrition and sunlight, you are good to go!

  • greentoe357
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    > Thank you greentoe for what sounds like a successful watering regimen for Florida.

    Oh wait. Florida. I should have paid attention to your zone. I am in New York, and indoors in a heated apartment where now it's dry and is often warm (more evaporation from the soil surface!) So, perhaps forget about my "standing water is ok" tirade - it may be less ok in your humid climate. I hope someone from closer to you will chime in on this topic. Growing advice is very climate-dependent, you know.

    > Would you re-pot a plant like this?

    I would pop it out of the pot and check the roots - then you'll know exactly how root-bound it is. Hoyas like being root-bound - and they should better be root-bound if overwatering is a concern. (More medium = more water retention and more chance of root rot). If you do repot, go just an inch larger, for the same reasons.

    Generally if not sure whether to repot, DON'T! The best hoya growers I know never go larger than 6 inch pots. They become pretty root-bound, in which case they just need to be watered a little more. It is possible that some plants will suffer when root-bound, in which case repotting is OK - or simply taking cuttings and restarting the plant if you do not want a bigger pot. H. imperialis is a notable exception to the "root-bound is ok" rule - that one likes a bit more room in its shoes.

    > It may sound like neglect, but not really. When I hovered over my Hoyas, they died.

    Exactly. This is a lesson many of us learn early on. Hoyas (generally) thrive on neglect. Which again gives you the answer on repotting.

    > Do you all fertilize them?

    I am a big fan of fertilizing. Many people don't, and their plants grow and flower just fine. But I am thinking, in nature they get weak doses of fertilizer constantly, and so that is what I should do. I fertilize almost with every watering, 1/4 to 1/2 the label doze. It's not as important as giving them light and water, but it follows soon after in that cultural advice list.

    > Hoyas look difficult to re-pot. Their leaves break off so easily.

    That is too much of a generalization. Most of them aren't, I do not think. Like, the DS-70 you have has rather pliable leaves and stems, so that should be easy. A few broken-off leaves for a large plant is ok, but if there are more, you may be handling it too roughly.

    What does make some Hoyas difficult to repot is when a gazillion cuttings have been rooted in like an 8 inch pot - which is what Exotic Angel does, the plants that are sold in all big box stores. Separating those plants is impossible without ripping or cutting a lot of roots, and not separating them creates a hairy mess of a plant where none of the individual plants in the pot can achieve the growth and maturation they are capable of, because there is no space in the pot. Those full baskets do look beautiful, but long term, I find that taking a cutting or a few from a plant like that gives me a better outcome than growing out the whole basket, intact.

    Specifically, brevialata that you mentioned, was growing a long time for me in a basket. But a few cuttings I planted individually matured to such a degree that the stem is multiple times thicker, and it became woody! I did not even know brevialata can do that - you would not know looking at EA baskets.

    Your two side by side plants do not look like brevialata to me, by the way. If those leaves are fuzzy like velvet to the touch, then they are both likely DS-70, the right one growing in more light than the left. (Or the left one may have been overwatered, you are right about that.) Touching the leaves, by the way, is often the best way of telling if they are hairy or smooth. The hairs are so fine and so dense that seeing them with a naked eye will be more difficult that feeling a leaf.

    Your meliflua looks fine to me. It's a smaller plant, obviously, but that is saying nothing about its health. Meliflua is a tank, so I would not worry about it too much.

  • greedygh0st
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I first got to know greentoe when he very generously offered me some cuttings of his brevialata. He was surprised I hadn't yet acquired this widely-traded Hoya, even though my collection is fairly large. Well, THIS is exactly why I didn't have it yet!!

    Back when I began collecting Hoyas, I too bought 3 different DS-70s thinking one was brevialata. And after that, I was so frustrated (and embarrassed), I just gave up on brevialata until greentoe came along years later. When you are new to the genus, it really is hard to know when you're looking at a different plant, and when you're just seeing the differences that come about from growing conditions.

    Anyway, brevialata has smooth leaves that are rounder and more concave, like orecchiette pasta, except light green! I wish you luck in finding it someday. Maybe you'll even be lucky like me and make a friend in the process!

    I understand about your having a project in mind and wanting to start with established plants. But don't discount your little meliflua there, though. I bet it catches up to the others in a year. For some reason Hoyas take a long time to adjust to a new environment, and younger starts and cuttings adapt and get growing a lot more quickly. It also has a lot to do with what greentoe mentions... the fact that the big pots hold lots of little starts that are all competing with each other in less ideal conditions than when you set them up in their own pots in your own medium.

    The DS-70 is sometimes more velvety and sometimes less velvety feeling. It has to do with growing conditions like humidity, hydration, and leaf age. Sometimes I'm amazed at how fuzzy mine's leaves are and other times they just feel gritty. It's never a super deep pile, though. If you do want to experience a super fuzzy Hoya, then go for nummularioides, thomsonii, most (not all) Eriostemmas, and calycina.

    I agree with greentoe that you should fertilize and that most Hoyas don't have especially fragile leaves. I lose more leaves from underwatering than repotting, but you can also go longer between repotting sessions with Hoyas than most plants because typical Hoya mediums break down more slowly, and they outgrow their hoops a lot faster than their pots.

  • PRO
    Jan Sword-Rossman Realty 239-470-6061
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hoya meliflua fraterna aka treubiana is one of my favorite hoya and it really tough plant once it gets going. This plant stay out during Summer rainy season and cold winter days down to 42.

    It is very generous bloomer, it flowers about 3-4 times on a single peduncle. I don't even know if there are any soil inside of pot but as long as it continues to grow and flower it will stay the same.

  • PRO
    Jan Sword-Rossman Realty 239-470-6061
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Opps! you were talking about meliflua, I put meliflua fraterna. Sorry! I don't have meliflua. ;(

  • aurorawa
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    They are very close in appearances. Treubiana has different color flowers and bigger leaves. And since I received my treubiana (thanks, greentoe!), it has actually successfully put out a new leaf and is working on another couple, despite me looking at it and moving it, whereas meliflua will not tolerate me even pretending to be looking at it. I have finally got a new leaf on the plant that has not aborted, but it is probably because I leave it on my bathroom windowsill and pretend it does not exist! If it didn't look so nice, it would probably be one I would remove from my collection, just because it refuses to grow, lol. This summer, I am hoping it takes off when I put them all outside.

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am disappointed my new Hoyas are mislabeled DS 70's, as I was trying to gain some diversity. Thank you for letting me know, though. What a lot of information! That is so interesting about the cuttings generally doing so much better than mature plants. I will have to try this after Christmas. Like everyone else, I am hopeful that when the cold weather is over here, everything will show signs of robust health and happiness. It dips into the 40s many nights lately and into the 30s occasionally. I have not had a hard freeze, but am not risking any of my new plants out there. I do take some of them out during the day though to have a little weak, wintry sun and some humidity, since the days are usually in the 70's. I remember my failure to get Hoyas to thrive inside, so think they will die if I don't take them out! Thank you for posting the photo of the beautiful meliflua fraterna. They may not be exactly alike, but close enough. Gives me something to hope for as I look at my twig. I bought the meliflua because I wanted to have a hoya with really large leaves. It can be confusing shopping on line...or anywhere, as we've seen. Thank you for your thoughts on fertilizing. It has seemed to me that Hoyas can be like bromeliads in their needs. Bromeliads seem to live on air, water and the right amount of light for whichever ones you have. You plant them in dirt, but it's only to hold them upright. I will have to think some more about the fertilizing issue when the winter is over. What should I use for potting medium? I've read a mix of peat or potting mix, perlite, coarse sand (which I cannot find), orchid mix. Of course, I know all the Hoyas I've bought are not planted in this variety of medium. I do have a compost pile so can use some of that, if it's acceptable. And also some really good dirt (for Florida).

  • greedygh0st
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree that meliflua and treubiana are closely enough related that your picture and advice are very useful (and enjoyable), Jan! I haven't bloomed either of mine yet, but they are really popular Hoyas among people whose plants are mature, so I know that once they are well-established, they must be very generous performers! :) I would be curious to know, from someone who grows and blooms both meliflua and treubiana, if there is any difference in their blooming season and frequency. Do you like one more than the other or do they act pretty much the same?

    Everyone has their own magic medium recipe that they love. There isn't a golden rule. It depends on what materials you have easy/affordable access to. But it has to be well-draining. I use potting soil as a component of my mix, and feel comfortable recommending a 1:1:1 mix of potting soil, large perlite, and orchid bark, to any indoor grower. But since you want to grow them outdoors in Florida, you should more seriously consider taking the time and energy to create a gritty mix. I don't know what Jan uses, but Pug uses a gritty mix and Renee grows primarily in S/H. I just think you have better odds of them being able to roll with seasonal changes and unpredictable weather. It is a pain, but since you won't have to repot them every 6m like a violet, it isn't terrible.

    I'm curious whether anyone will respond about using compost in outdoor Hoyas. I can't use it since I grow inside, although I do have fun using lovely stinky compost tea from time to time.

  • rennfl
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi and welcome back to Hoyas.

    I've now lived and grown Hoyas in two very different parts of Florida.

    First I lived 1/2 mile from the coast in the panhandle, a little town called Panama City Beach, and I now live about 2 miles from the coast in a little town in SW Florida called Venice. I write this so if you are familiar with Florida, you can take my experience and hopefully apply it to where you live. In PCB, we experienced a few frosts, a few nights into the 20s (I didn't leave them out when forcasted to get into the 20s) Last winter in Venice, our lowest recorded temp was 35F I think)

    BTW, I was just up in Dade City this past Monday.

    ok, some of my Hoyas I've left outside for winter in either or both places and how they did. When I say cold, I'm meaning less than 50F.

    DS-70 pushed the temps in PCB, it resented it, so ended up bringing it inside. Tried again in SW FL here last winter, it resented it, I ended up bringing it inside. To me this one will take a couple cold nights, but after a few in a row it starts seriously pouting.

    lacunosa - same results as DS-70

    publicalyx, I've had different results depending on the clone. The common speckled one I have, stayed outside even through light frosts in PCB, and stayed outside all winter (no frosts) here in Venice. Another clone I have starts pouting when it gets a few nights in the 40s, so I end up bringing it in.

    limoniaca - same results as the speckled publicalyx.

    fungii - same results as the speckled publicalyx.

    muliflua - left outside through a light frost in PCB, left outside in Venice last winter, but it definitely resents it. I'm planning on brining it in here soon.

    boutii - left outside last winter in Venice. It's like the Energizer Bunny.

    bella - left outside through light frosts in PCB, left outside last winter in Venice. I think this one responds well to a cooler winter - actually thrives on it.

    obovata - same as bella.

    polyneura - same as bella. I want to add I saw upthread it was recommended to keep this drier. I've found in our heat, it seriously drops leaves unless you keep it moist. So I usually kept it moist in summer, but allowed it to dry out well in between waterings in winter. This past summer, I had some issues, and wasn't able to keep up with watering - the polyneura dropped many of it's leaves to the point I had to take my 10 inch gorgeous potted plant and restart it.

    cumingiana - another one that does beautifully outside in FLorida, took the light frosts in PCB, and even thrived on it. Takes the heat in the summer and thrives on it. This one stays more busy than the others, so it won't run up a tree like some of the others. One thing, I put an extra plant of mine out front in the sand (our dirt) where it got full sun all day all summer. Of course most of the leaves burned off, but then a new shoot started, and it's now a nice little plant growing out there.

    cembra - another bushy one, bigger than the cumingiana, although I wouldn't give it full sun :). I also planted this one last summer in our ground, and it settled in, bloomed on time as usual. Growing well. Also took a light frost in PCB, and since it's in the ground here in Venice stays outside in winter.

    So there are a variety that I've found do well outside down here. If you are interested in any of them, let me know and next time I'm up that way, I can drop them off somewhere for you.

    BTW GG - yes I start all my cuttings these days in S/H, and I grow a few in S/H, but really most of mine are in traditional bottom draining pots. I just only use inorganic material. :)

    Good luck!

    Renee

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks to all for the great info. I am in a getting ready for Christmas rush, animals to feed, car that needs to go to the shop, so no time to enjoy myself here at the moment. But --I knew that sand had to be out there. Florida is made of sand. I did look at Wal Mart and Lowes, but they have so much Christmas crap in their garden section that it's hard to find things. And I haven't bought potting medium in probably 25 years or more, so am not familiar with where to find it. I have bought a few bags of stuff, but the sand wasn't near it, where it seemed logical for it to be. So, I will pursue it further when Christmas is over with your excellent advice.

    I am so thrilled to have your info Renee, because my daughter lives in Venice and I am familiar with experiencing their weather vs. ours and the basic difference in soil. I would so love to look at your Hoyas...growing up trees! That might be pushing it here, but maybe not. I never thought to try it. If the Pothos grows up the trees and everywhere so (a little too-) successfully, maybe some of the Hoyas will too. I don't know if they would get enough light to bloom though. Our trees are big oaks. I give my son-in-law plants from here to try in their yard and most of the time they do ok, but are smaller because the soil is sandy. But then, they can have lots of things I can't really have, like things that require lots of sun and sandy soil. Anyway, your information is so helpful. Anytime you come to Dade City, I'd love to have you. I live about 15 minutes or so away, in the country near I-75, very easy to find, or I can meet you in Dade City. Of course, I am filled with Hoya greed! Would love to have some cuttings of whatever I don't have. I had ordered some more Hoyas from somewhere which are supposed to be here maybe by Saturday, if they don't die in the mail. But am glad to learn about propagating with cuttings. I do this with the Pentas that bloom in my yard, but with them you just stick a lovely flower in water and the next thing you know it has roots and time to stick it in the ground. This, I'm sure will be a little different. Anyway, as soon as I see what I have that's thriving, I'll know more what I don't have. I know I don't have lacunosa -- I didn't order it because I thought I might run into it in a BB store, but no luck there. I think I might have enough big plants for my wall project anyway, and it's time to switch to cuttings. Thank you for your generosity and all your info. GG was right, a FL person needs to share experiences with a FL person. Your experiences are so different than what I've heard (polyneura), and it's great that you live in familiar territory, if not exactly in my area.

  • aurorawa
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Woot! Found the name for the sand I am talking about. It is Akasha Kalahari Decorative Natural Coarse Sand, sold at Lowes. It is not available online through them anymore, but I am still able to pick it up in store. I am including the link so you can see what we mean by coarse sand!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Lowes natural coarse sand

    This post was edited by AuroraWA on Thu, Dec 18, 14 at 16:27

  • greentoe357
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    > I bought the meliflua because I wanted to have a hoya with really large leaves.

    Boy, then get your wish list ready because I (and many others here, I am sure) can suggest species you might like even more. Look into:
    polystachya
    macrophylla
    latifolia
    clandestina
    vitellinoides
    sp. 97005
    erythrina (some of them)
    finlaysonii (some clones like Nong Nooch have large leaves)
    glabra
    'Jennifer'
    vitellinoides
    vitellina

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you, greentoe, for the list of big leaved Hoyas. This morning I have copied some of the recent detailed info on this forum to a word document so I can have it handy on paper. I need to put that sand on my Lowes list. It's the only thing missing to make a soil mix. One of my recent hoya purchases has a bunch of soil missing, like it got turned over and then nobody replaced the soil that fell out.

    So, greentoe, I will explore this list on line and get back. Finlaysonii is a vaguely familiar name, but all the others are not.

    We are having a wonderful day here today; I can even leave most of the plants out overnight...actually maybe the next 4 nights. Getting ready for Christmas here, so have to ease off my hoya obsession just a little.

    Thank you all for the great info. AuroraWa thanks for all the detail on mixes. I don't think my compost is stinky, so I might use a little of it in my mix. Everything loves to try to grow in my compost pile. I have a big avocado tree growing in it that I probably should have pulled out. The compost is just organic vegetable/fruit stuff from the kitchen with lots of pine shavings.

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A quick question for Renee or maybe others: I have attached a photo of a hoya I recently bought with the name "Pubicalyx Royal Hawaiian Purple". Renee, you said how well they tolerated the cold depended on the clone. I don't know whether this is a "common speckled clone" or more likely one of the more cold-tender types? One thing I know for sure....it's not another DS 70, but otherwise I have no idea if I have the correct identity, only the name the grower gave me. That's why I included the photo.

  • greentoe357
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This does look like Hoya pubicalyx. I am bad telling the cultivar just from leaves, but it looks feasible to me that it could be 'Royal Hawaiian Purple'.

    > So, greentoe, I will explore this list on line and get back. Finlaysonii is a vaguely familiar name, but all the others are not.

    Yeah, check them out. There are some beautiful leaves in there, like, say, vitellinoides. Did I mention vitellinoides? Just in case I forgot, check out vitellinoides. :-)

  • rennfl
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Melliny - unfortunately my speckled publicalyx did not come with a clonal name, so I'm not sure which one it is. I do have two other publicalyx, but both are plain leaved, no speckling, and those do not do well with consistent cold.

    So basically I don't know if RHP withstands cold. But you can leave it out and see. One thing that helps with cold resistance is, keep it drier. I only water my outside plants in winter when we are having warm spells. So if it is forecasted to get down into the low 40s or 30s I skip a watering even if they are bone dry.

    Here is a pic of my publicalyx back from when I lived in the panhandle, so it was after a winter where it received frosts. It still bloomed and grew well.

    Now a question for you, I see a lot of recommendations on plants for you, but to clarify, do you want ones that would do well outside? Or are you looking for warm growers as well?

    Also, I know I'll be up in Dade City on January 21st, got an all morning meeting that day scheduled already. If you want, send me an email through GW, and we can set something up. I've got a few rooted cuttings around here that I would hold onto for you, as well as I can take some fresh cuttings of ones I have you are interested in.

    Renee

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow. I have never had such a lot of blooms at one time, Renee. It's clear I need to step up with taking care of the hoya I've had for years, and I think I'm more than sufficiently inspired to take care of the new ones I have. I did some re-potting today, including one of the carnosas I bought for my daughter. It was missing some soil, so I just went for repotting it altogether. I still don't have sand, but I have everything else, so that will have to do until I can get to Lowes. Anyway, it looked like it was planted in nothing but peat. So when I can, I am going to take apart the others I've bought from the bb stores and make sure they've got reasonably well-draining soil in there, which I'm sure they don't. Especially the polyneura and one of the DS 70's that was waterlogged. (someone on this forum warned me to check out the root ball, so I'll be doing that....) As GG said, the leaves weren't so fragile--I didn't break too many. Anyway, I really want to get my plants to bloom like a pro, if possible. The photo gets me very motivated! Usually the max my old hoya has on it is 2 blooms. I'm going to improve its life very soon.

    I can see that you're an enthusiastic fan of vitellinoides, greentoe. I looked on line at other photos of it too, and it's baffling how they don't necessarily look like the same plant from one photo to the next. They do have very cool, big leaves. And they look like they might be a "graceful' hoya. Some hoyas I've looked at would work better on a trellis, but this one looks like it could hang or grow on something, either way. ? So, I'm sold. Do you want to sell me a cutting? I am grateful for any and all recommendations!

    Renee, I'm glad to hear you are coming up this way again soon. I thought I was looking mostly for plants that could survive the colder weather, but I've had a change of heart-- just don't want to limit myself for one thing, and for another, when I put my plants outside today and then didn't have to bring them in tonight because the temps are going to be warmer for a few nights--I missed them. So I settled for bringing a few in. It's raining, and I didn't want to cheat the others out of a real bath. I have found that it's easy to love diversity, especially if you can succeed in getting the plant to perform its best. I'm curious about anything you may have and am happy to have whatever you feel like sharing.

    That was odd, your experience with the cold and watering. If your plants are outside in the winter, cold temps usually follow a rain. So, how do you avoid having them get wet when it's cold?

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I thought I'd share my latest acquisitions which I have been doting over since they arrived a couple of days ago. I know some of you have massive collections, but I am just starting...will probably not go massive, but would like to have an interesting little collection. For someone just recently realizing there are so many kinds out there--it's bewildering!--you really don't know where to start. Eventually, I just end up picking something, obviously. Everything I have is a medium sized leaf, more or less, so I'd like to have some tiny leaves and some really big leaves. Anyway, this is wayetti, serpens, lanceolata bella variegated and a multiflora--blooming even! They all look different from what I have at this point, so that's a good start.

    What I have in mind for these plants is decorating a half-wall that hides my AC units. In fact, just kind of hiding the thing altogether. It is right outside the doors to my bedroom, so you look out the doors onto a nice green view except for the boring brown wall on your right, which you automatically look away from. I got the idea to hide it with mostly Hoyas while browsing around on line and seeing someone do this with an interior wall somewhere "up north"--really a fantastic creation. (Hiding walls with plants isn't exactly new, but I had felt restricted by the fact that the wall is so close to the doors and there isn't room for the typical shrubbery you might use.)

    I am grateful to Renee who is going to bring me some cuttings from her collection the next time she is up this way! It has been about 20 years since I have been in a place where people just share things for the love of it and it isn't about money. (Not that I have the least concern about paying for plants, and I appreciate the places I've received plants from so far have done a great job of packing them for shipment and sending healthy plants.) But it's nice to be part of a culture of people who share because they like to spread the joy. On that note, Merry Christmas to everyone.

  • greentoe357
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    > I can see that you're an enthusiastic fan of vitellinoides, greentoe. I looked on line at other photos of it too, and it's baffling how they don't necessarily look like the same plant from one photo to the next.

    I just googled vitellinoides images again. The first 7 pictures do look like it, but then the next 2 are wrong, and among the subsequent ones there are many wrong images that are returned. Most of the times it's because google algorithms pick up a wrong image when vitellinoides mentioned in the text. And sometimes it's because somebody mis-identified a plant on a web page or in a forum somewhere.

    There is also a naming dispute here that plays a role. What some people (including me) call H. vitellinoides, some others call H. meredithii. I am not knowledgeable enough to say one way or the other, but more people seem to go for the former name for this plant, so that is what I did as well. I am not sure whether the latter crowd use the name "H. vitellinoides" for another plant - obviously that would muddy the "hoya vitellinoides" google search results further.

    Practically speaking, this all means that it's not a bad idea to see a picture of the plant that you are getting - just to make sure that you are getting what you expect to be getting.

    My plant came from Carol Noel in Hawaii (got a cutting this summer). My plant is too small to take cuttings, but I am pm'ing you her contact info.

    > And they look like they might be a "graceful' hoya. Some hoyas I've looked at would work better on a trellis, but this one looks like it could hang or grow on something, either way. ?

    I can grow only a very limited number of plants hanging, because my main space is a plant stand. So, most of them are on trellises. This one does want to grow up more than down, at least for me and at least at this young age. (See the pic below, the height of that plant from the ground to the tip of the vine is ~32 inches). But if your growing environment is more conducive to hanging baskets, then by all means go for it. This actually applies to absolute majority of hoyas - they can grow either way, sometimes with a nudge from the grower. Naturally, when my plant leafs out more on that long vine, it will want to arch down under its weight, unless it finds a support to climb, with my help or without.

    > I am grateful to Renee who is going to bring me some cuttings from her collection

    Kudos to Renee, and to you for publicly thanking her! Some of my best Hoyas by far came from people who shared with me for free or for postage or for very cheap. You know how they say that people value things according to what they've paid for them? I agree generally, but not in this case. I often think of those people kindly when I look at those plants. It's a sort of pleasure, in addition to growing plants themselves being a sort of pleasure. Does that make sense?

  • Melliny
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This being Christmas Eve, and I'm supposed to be figuring out how to bake a whole ham, but just had to respond a little bit, greentoe. Re: associating plants with the people who gave them to you. I am that way about things people give me in general, so plants too! And I so agree with you that it brings additional pleasure beyond the thing itself.

    One other thing: I went through your list of plants with big leaves, looking at them on line and was going ask you how in the world some of these plants can be the same that do not look alike! Nice to have an explanation, but yeah, confusing. Also noticed that these big leaved plants all seem to require very warm temps, so will have to keep them at a minimum. But I can still have a few....Thank you so much for the contact info. I have to go get the ham thing worked out....more later.

  • greentoe357
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    > how in the world some of these plants can be the same that do not look alike!

    Can you be more specific than this? (After you are done with the ham, please, and possibly with the rest of the celebrations. I do not want burnt ham or hungry family members on my consciousness. :-) )

    Which plant(s) are you talking about? Can you take a screenshot of your image search, post it here and refer to images you have questions about? This is because search results are very individualized and may look different from different geographical regions and for different people.

    Or forget google and link directly to the pictures or web pages where you have questions about plant images.

    At the very least mention the plant name that you have in mind that you think looks different in different images.

    > Also noticed that these big leaved plants all seem to require very warm temps, so will have to keep them at a minimum.

    First, I do not know where you got your info, but that is not true. Very few hoya species require "very warm" temps. Just one on my list is merely a "warm" growing. A large majority are intermediate. Check this out: http://vermonthoyascom.fatcow.com/cultivation/temperature-tolerance-guide/.

    Second, you are in zone 10! That is plenty warm. I am in New York City, and they all grow fine for me. (Indoors, obviously.) Many successful growers are even more to the north, including in Canada and Sweden. And in Southern Florida, they all grow absolutely great. In fact, you might have more problems with the cool-growing species like bella and serpens - which you already got.

  • aurorawa
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The only hoya I know of that require consistent warm temperatures are in the eirostemma section. They also thrive in blasting, direct sun. The rest (with the exception of some cool growing) do just fine between 60-80 degrees, and prefer filtered or bright, yet indirect, sunlight.

    On blooming, I use 1/4 strength water soluble fertilizer in winter, and 1/2 strength water soluble fertilizer in spring-fall with each watering. I just switched to a fertilizer with an NPK of 13-3.7-15.9 and it has all the micronutrients added and calcium. You generally want a fertilizer with either a balanced NPK ratio of 2:1:3, if I remember correctly, or an equal NPK ratio (1:1:1).
    In the spring-fall, I will alternate my normal fertilizer with a bloom boosting water soluble fertlizer, ususally once every 2 weeks, so twice a month. The NPK of my bloom booster is 12-55-6, again I use it at 1/2 strength. I don't use it in the winter, unless one of my extremely hungry hoya need it (buotii and a couple of others want to eat and eat).

  • rennfl
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Melliny - since it's been a couple posts since you asked, I'm copying here your question:

    "That was odd, your experience with the cold and watering. If your plants are outside in the winter, cold temps usually follow a rain. So, how do you avoid having them get wet when it's cold? "

    This was actually more of a problem when I lived in the panhandle which regularly did get rain in winter (and it was colder up there). But the rain was sporatic, and I just tucked the most sensitive ones under the overhang from the roof, which kept them almost dry.

    Down here, it rarely rains in winter - and the few times it does, it is usually on warmer days. If it was going to get into the 30s, and was raining - I'd just cross my fingers :) Actually I wish it would rain a bit more often - at least often enough to fill my rain water tanks. I've been having to run my RO unit (which is better, but not as good as rain) to keep up with enough water. But we've been quite warm the last couple weeks also. I can't use my house water for the plants - too high salts content.

    Also, something to realize that many people forget - when your pots are outside, even in the cooler weather, they dry fast. Not as fast as when it is hot, but even in cooler weather, they still need watered every few days. People underestimate the effect of air flow on drying.

    Renee

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