Return to the Hybridizing Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Spineless gooseberries

Posted by martweb (martweb@gmx.net) on
Tue, May 25, 04 at 4:05

Jostas are crosses of black currant and gooseberry. They were made tetraploid by using Colchicine. Josta is completely spineless due to genes from black currant. My idea is to cross Josta with gooseberry to obtain triploid plants of low fertility and then backcross these plants again with gooseberry to obtain completely spineless gooseberries. Did anyone already tried this? E. Keep did crossings between Josta and black currant successfully, so also crossings with gooseberry should be successful.


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Spineless gooseberries

Captivator is one kind of spineless gooseberry. I think there are a few other names that are spineless as well.
Nearly spineless cultivars have been developed, but the most popular cultivars, such as Welcome, and Pixwell have short spines.

Here's a tidbit I found on the web:
One of the main goals of breeding is obtaining spineless gooseberry cultivars. The results of distant interspecific hybridization within genus Grossularia Mill. have been the most promising ones. In the result of crosses between European cultivars and derivatives of North-American species the following weak spiny and basically spineless cultivars have been obtained: Chernomor, Chernoslivovyi, Slaboshipovatyi 3, Shalun, Sirius, Yubilyar, Grossular, Serenada. Convergent crosses, backcross and inbreeding are considered to be the main up-to-date methods of breeding.
The most promising parents and cross combinations have been selected out of the 6700 seedlings. Spineless cv. Chernoslivovyi seems to be the best donor for spinelessness.
The analysis of spineless trait changes in ontogenesis has shown spiny seedlings predominance in the first year after seeds sowing. A significant increase of the share of seedlings with parents traits among hybrids from spineless and weak spiny cultivars is observed in the 2nd and 3rd years. Therefore a rigid discard of hybrids for spiny trait should not be made in the first year of vegetation.

I've got a question for you: Would I be wasting my time growing and maturing seedlings from my Josta plant? They would be josta F2's, since they developed without any other currants or gooseberries around.

What would you expect from such seedlings?

BTW, the seeds lasted the whole winter in the ground, then sprouted under my josta plant, I'd say these are pretty hardy :)

Could you arrive at another sort of 'josta' by crossing a spineless gooseberry with a red or white currant? I've always wondered about that. And why the true Josta had to be made with black currant?

Ribes are very interesting eh?


 o
RE: Spineless gooseberries

Besides
http://www.lsdi.lt/T20(3)-1_eng/T20(3)-1_eng_32.htm
I also found:
http://www.aif.ru:81/online/dacha/104/04_03
http://www.aif.ru:81/online/dacha/169/06_01
But I am unable to translate and I also don't know where to get those gooseberries, that are shurely worth testing. Those 'spineless' gooseberries seem to be derived mainly from Ribes oxyacanthoides?! Cultivars like Spinefree or Captivator have mostly weak spines but are not really spinefree. Secondly the branches are weaker therefore susceptible to wind damage, the yield is lower and the berries smaller. The second thing is that when they are micropropagated they develope a lot of spines. Josta never developes any spines. So my idea is to transfer genes from black currant to gooseberry to surpress spines totally. I made a crossing and found that triploid plants (one set black currant and two sets gooseberry) are also totally spinefree even directly after germination.
Breeding Josta in F2 is not interesting as most plants are nearly the same. The genetic variation is very small. To improve the genetic variation you either have to cross black currant (female) with gooseberry (male) and treat the resulting seedlings with Colchicine or cross Josta with either black currant or gooseberry and try to get seed from these triploid seedlings by pollinating them with Josta pollen.
Yes it is possible also to cross gooseberry with red currant but the seed set is very very low and you need embryo culture to get mature plants. I don't know anyone who tried to Colchicinate those plants to make the fertile.

Greetings
Martin


 o
RE: Spineless gooseberries

Are your 3X currant/gooeseberries fertile?


 o
RE: Spineless gooseberries

Yes and no. The triploid plants have a low fertility, but enough to get some seed when pollinated with diploid pollen.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Hybridizing Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here