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Genera breeding between Families within same Order?
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Posted by Bob Byrnes PA 5b/6a (rosebreeder@OverbrookeGardens.com) on Wed, Jul 25, 01 at 13:46
| Does anyone know of any expample(s) of genera breeding between different Families within the same Order? Thanks for any information in advance.
Bob |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Genera breeding between Families within same Order?
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RE: Genera breeding between Families within same Order?
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| Plumcots and apriums are all derived from crosses between species of the Prunus genus. I understand the question to be whether crosses even wider than bigeneric are possible, say between genera from two different Families within the same Order?! Crosses between two genera in the same family are difficult enough... yet, nothing is impossible. Whatever do you have in mind, Bob? John |
RE: Genera breeding between Families within same Order?
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| John, Yes, you explained my question quite well. Thank you! :-) As you know, we share an interest in working with the hybrid species, X pardancanda. Since this bigeneric cross was so successful and turned out to be so fertile I've become very curious about crossing it with the species hemerocallis. For background information purposes their status is: Order--> Family --> Genus --> Species Liliales--> Iridaceae--> Iris--> X pardancanda
Liliales--> Liliaceae--> hemerocallis--> vulva These two start to diverge at the Family level but share the same Order. This may be too wide a cross but I was curious if there were any examples that currently exist. Thanks guys! Bob |
RE: Genera breeding between Families within same Order?
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| Bob, Hostas were once placed in the Genus Hemerocallis. The August Lily, Hosta plantaginea, shows this relationship in its flowers. Hosta and Hemerocallis are now both seperate genera in the family Liliacae, although both further classified in the tribe Hemerocallideae. However it is now suggested that Hosta may belong in the Hyacinthaceae! This is due to protein comparisons between Hosta and the Agavaceae and Camassia of the Hyacinthaceae. Imagine the wide crosses that now seem just a little more possible. My feeling, unscientific as it is, is that a plant does not know how it is classified, and is no more or less compatible with any other because it is placed in the same genera, tribe, or family. John |
RE: Genera breeding between Families within same Order?
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| According to latest ideas, Camassia belongs in the Agavaceae, as does Hosta. There are no native North American Hyacinthaceae, though Oziroe, which includes South American species formerly included in Camassia, is in its own subfamily in Hyacinthaceae. Most genera of Hemerocallidaceae are from Australia and New Zealand (Phormium, Dianella, etc.) Both families, as well as Iridaceae, belong in the order Asparagales. A wide cross is the sign of an incorrect classification. |
RE: Genera breeding between Families within same Order?
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| David, thanks for the latest thoughts on classification of Hosta, etc. I agree with your statement about a wide cross being the sign of an incorrect classification, as the few examples I can think of were later reclassified, as Acidanthera x Gladiolus, considered an intergeneric hybrid "Acidanthera" until Acidanthera was reclassified as a Gladiolus. And of course, the parents of the intergeneric hybrid Pardancanda, that is Pardanthopsis and Belamcanda were at one time both placed in the Genus Pardanthus. At the time the cross was made, the creator speculated as to how the parents would be reclassified! John |
RE: Genera breeding between Families within same Order?
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| I should have written Hemerocallis fulva, not vulva.....(he says with much embarrassment). Thank you John for pointing that out! Bob |
RE: Genera breeding between Families within same Order?
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| Hello Wide crosses are not the sign of an incorrect classification. It is only the sign of lack of crossing barriers. Intersterility is not a requisite for either species or genera, family, order. This is only classification not biology.
Intersterility is no more than a possibility from diverging evolution and/or an isolating factor easing diferenciation. Interfertility is even not a requisite at species level. Many very wide crosses were succeded within Orchids or Cacti. Pierre |
RE: Genera breeding between Families within same Order?
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| Pierre, you make an excellent point that interfertility is not a requisite (even)at the species level. However, it appears that the success of very wide crosses, as in Orchids and Cacti, serves as some indication that these Families are overly divided into genera, that is, incorrectly classified. John |
RE: Genera breeding between Families within same Order?
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| There is no way that Hylocereus, Epiphyllum, Disocactus, etc. and Echinopsis all belong in the same genus. |
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