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boizeau

Grape breeding anyone

boizeau
19 years ago

I'm into breeding grapes for wine, Muscat flavored types mostly. Wondered if anyone else was doing it and if anyone has managed to cross Vitis with Muscadine? I have a lot of strange combinations in my collection and my focus is on early ripening cool hardy vines for the Northwest region.

Comments (8)

  • Walter_Pickett
    19 years ago

    I know that the vitis and Muscadine have been crossed.
    Go to the North American Fruit Explorers web page. Someone on there, Micheal pilarski or someting like that, has mentioned them.
    I have seen other references to such hybrids in the scientific litterature. I can't think of others right off.
    The F1 is not very fertile, but backcrosses have been made. And some have been doubled and became fertile.

  • kevins_choice
    19 years ago

    i tried to cross swartzman with a table grape without success and could anyone be able to tell me the name of a grape that doesent get powdery mildew like swartsman dosent and is a good rootstock and gets some grapes on without coaxing and roots cuttings easier than swartzman and is not horribly sour.

  • boizeau
    Original Author
    19 years ago

    Don't know much about Schwarzman, but out here we mostly have powdery mildew and Botrytis. The healthiest Vinifera I know of is the Trebbiano grape, at least concerning these two diseases. Back East, I'd start with a Geneva hybrid, not a pure vinifera type for experiments.

  • Elakazal
    19 years ago

    The one Euvitis/Muscadine hybrid I know of is 'Southern Home' from the former University of Florida program. I don't know of any nursery selling it, but I've seen several vines at various places and it looks pretty good, although in one location in central Florida it looked like it was having a hard time deciding whether it was hardening off or not (mostly dormant, but with some buds just breaking Nov 1.) There are others inexistence, but that's the one cultivar I know of off the top of my head. I've read that some of the Dunstan hybrids, Aurelia and Carolina Blackrose, have muscadine in their background, but as far back as I've traced their pedigrees I haven't found it.

    I'm not entirely clear what your goals are for your crossing...are you interested in it as a rootstock or as a table grape? Trebbiano is fairly healthy as vinifera go, but historically all vinifera have been pretty atrocious parents as far as disease resistance is concerned. Doesn't mean they don't have a place in breeding program, but they're more likely to be a couple generations back in anything with good quality and resistance. Vinifera are also, of course, a bad choice if you're looking to breed rootstock (ask the folks in California about AXR1, which was half vinifera).

    Here is a link to a disease trial from the Cornell grape breeding program:
    http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/hort/faculty/reisch/breeding/DRtable.html

    Many of these are breeding selections, not cultivars, but a determined person could probably scare up the majority from public sources with sufficient effort. There's no vinifera in there, but I'd call Chancellor pretty typical of vinifera's reaction to that situation. The vineyard this data was taken from has received no fungicide at all since it's establishment...the disease pressure is considerably higher than "normal" conditions in all likelihood. Note that while the best stuff on there is a long way from commercial fruit quality (ILL 547-1 doesn't even have fruit!) there are things of commercial quality which represent an improvement over vinifera, though resistance is better for downy mildew than for powdery mildew. Traminette has a certain degree of resistance to PM, and some of the German cultivars like Orion are quite resistance to DM. There are better things in the Geneva program, but when these will be available is anyone's guess.

    I might be tempted to try Traminette as a table grape parent: it's got a moderate level of resistance to both PR and DR (emphasis on moderate...you'll still definitely want to spray it), and it's got a nice clean vinifera taste without the bland sugar-water taste of some vinifera table grapes, it's productive, fairly cooperative viticulturally, and moderately cold hardy (maybe not an issue in Queensland). The original cross was intended as a table grape cross, actually (though with Gewurztraminer as a parent it wasn't much of a stretch to try it for wine.)

  • kevins_choice
    19 years ago

    i have had swartzman growing in amongst another grape vine which got mildew so bad its leaves were destroyed but the swartzman had no mildew so i would like to idealy put the genes and only those genes for resistance into table or wine grapes. i got swartzman to get grapes on (they dont normaly get grapes on) to make them get grapes on for pollination in spring you let them get a few bunches on that havent flowered yet and then you dont let any new shoots grow. so you snap of all the new buds every couple of days. but they are very sour so i need something with the same resistance qualities that is acually edible. that is if grapes are fairly true to seed.

  • stefanb8
    19 years ago

    'Schwarzmann' is a (riparia x rupestris) cross used for rootstock - no wonder it's sour! There are plenty of hybrids out there that are resistant to mildew but have edible fruit... it just takes some research to find out which ones are available in Australia. Grapes don't come true from seed, of course; they vary greatly, especially if they come from hybrid backgrounds (and they also vary according to what plant supplied the pollen).

    I'm setting up for some crosses here in the great white north, and muscats are an interest I plan on indulging - but it's not easy to find hardy parents that possess muscat flavor. I hear that 'St. Pepin' may be useful for this, but since it's already teetering on the edge of hardiness in Minnesota, it would clearly be unwise to cross with other vines that themselves teeter on the edge of hardiness (or, as is mostly the case, worse). It appears to be a game of developing your own breeding parents, which should make things both complicated and interesting.

  • boizeau
    Original Author
    19 years ago

    There are a few hardy muscats, but where do you live and what part of the US? The Pearl De Csaba and Siegerrebe are hardy vinifera muscats--- to a point. Let me know what you're after.

    Boizeau

  • stefanb8
    19 years ago

    Boizeau, I live in Minnesota - I do have a few viniferas that I bury for the winter, but I think that it's best if I curb my habit of trying those and go for hybrids. The biggest problem is choosing varieties that can donate great hardiness for this region and would also contribute to a muscat flavor. It might be the best route to cross non-muscat hardy grapes with muscats that aren't perfectly hardy and see if I can't get something quite reasonable. I know that other breeders in this area are working toward similar goals, so I'd like to steer clear of any obvious tracks. Are there some available very hardy muscats I'm forgetting about? Maybe LaCrescent... I'll have to hear more about that one.

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