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will these various natives hybridize w/these related non-natives?

Posted by njbiology Zone 7(/6b); NJ (My Page) on
Tue, Dec 15, 09 at 18:48

Hi,

In an effort to identify common foreign garden/orchard edibles that will freely hybridize their North American native counterparts(without intervention, being naturally cross-compatible), I'm posting this thread/question.

I breed native fruits for superior cultivars and do not want to risk ending up with a hybrid between native and non-native, regardless of apparent superior characteristics that might result.

1. Will native strawberries (F. vesca or F. virginiana) cross-pollinate (freely, open-pollinate) with F. ananassa or even F. moschata? I know that half of the gene-pool comprising F. ananassa is F. virginiana, but I'm not sure if this was 'forced' under controlled conditions not present under normal circumstances - just like when you force American persimmon (var. virginiana only) to hybridize with D. kaki (with much effort)?

2.Native plums (P. angustifolia; P. americana; P. maritima; P. alleghaniensis; P. pumilla var. besseyi) with European plum (P. domestica) or with the Asian plums (including P. tomentosa). Someone said the natives will not hybridize with the European species but will with (?all)Asian species.

3. The wild native mints (or plants in the mint family) with the Eurasian mint types.

4. The native garlic spp. with the Eurasian garlic spp.

5. Are there natural native crab apple x European apple hyrbids?

6. Other then the supposed Amelanchier canadensis x A. laevis alleged hybrid resulting in A. x grandifolia, will the various Amelanchier spp. hybridize with one another - i.e. A. alnifolia, A. canadensis, A. humilis, etc. with one another?

7. Will the various hickories hybridize with one another, such as pecan x shagbark x shellbark, or are these either extremely rare hybridizations or ones requiring human intervention?

8. Will the various native plums hybridize with one another? - I think several will with A. americana, but not sure if those that would will hybridize with one another.

9. Will native currants and gooseberries hybridize with their European counterparts? And will native currants/gooseberries hybridize freely among themselves?

10. Will native raspberries and blackberries from the north east hybridize with those (Rubus) from the western states? Same question for native blueberries/huckleberries from the east and western coast?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: will these various natives hybridize w/these related non-nati

RE: Raspberry x Blackberry hybrids

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* Posted by farmfreedom (My Page) on
Tue, Dec 15, 09 at 14:31

Yes you can cross: raspberries , blackberries , mulberries , wineberries ,dewberries , tayberries , boisenberries ,loganberries , salmonberries ,black caps, can all crossbreed .
There is even a "white blackberry" developed by Luther Burbank
The Nothernmost most cold resistant fruits in the world are berries. We should be using the most cold resistant fruits in the world to extend the range of all berries that they can crossbreed with .

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RE: Raspberry x Blacberry hybrids

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* Posted by henry_kuska z5 OH (kuska@neo.rr.com) on
Thu, Dec 17, 09 at 14:34

See:

http://www.rosehybridizers.org/forum/message.php?topid=2986

for additional "possibilities".

Here is a link that might be useful: link for above
o RE: Raspberry x Blacberry hybrids

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* Posted by tugbrethil Sunset 13, USDA 9 (My Page) on
Sat, Jan 16, 10 at 1:27

Wait a minute, farmfreedom! All of the brambles (blackberries, raspberries, etc.) are members of the rose family (Rosaceae), while mulberries are members of the Moraceae, along with figs and the rare succulent Dorstenia. There is virtually no structural similarity between the families: are you sure that mulberries and blackberries will hybridize?

Kevin : )

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RE: Raspberry x Blacberry hybrids

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* Posted by farmfreedom (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 1, 10 at 16:30

I believe if you look up the "TAY berry " or the "Logan berry " you will find that that is the cross breed. Also If this was not true How Did Luther Burbank develop the " White Blackberry " . He is also said to Have crossed Strawberries and Blackberries which I would like to see if anyone has a picture .
The Nothernmost most cold resistant fruits in the world are berries. We should be using the most cold resistant fruits in the world to extend the range of all berries that they can crossbreed with .
1. Will native strawberries (F. vesca or F. virginiana) cross-pollinate (freely, open-pollinate) with F. ananassa or even F. moschata? I know that half of the gene-pool comprising F. ananassa is F. virginiana, but I'm not sure if this was 'forced' under controlled conditions not present under normal circumstances - just like when you force American persimmon (var. virginiana only) to hybridize with D. kaki (with much effort)?
With strawberries it depends on if they are diploid, triploid, quadriploid, etc.

2.Native plums (P. angustifolia; P. americana; P. maritima; P. alleghaniensis; P. pumilla var. besseyi) with European plum (P. domestica) or with the Asian plums (including P. tomentosa). Someone said the natives will not hybridize with the European species but will with (?all)Asian species.
Plums,beach plums, apriocots, peaches (including nectarines), almonds and I believe sand cherries can all cross breed with each other , but not with real cherries .
3. The wild native mints (or plants in the mint family) with the Eurasian mint types.

4. The native garlic spp. with the Eurasian garlic spp.
garlic can cross with onions( shallots) and other garlic but neither can cross with leaks.
5. Are there natural native crab apple x European apple hyrbids? Yes

6. Other then the supposed Amelanchier canadensis x A. laevis alleged hybrid resulting in A. x grandifolia, will the various Amelanchier spp. hybridize with one another - i.e. A. alnifolia, A. canadensis, A. humilis, etc. with one another?

7. Will the various hickories hybridize with one another, such as pecan x shagbark x shellbark, or are these either extremely rare hybridizations or ones requiring human intervention? Luther Burbank crossed them and crossed the heart nut and all the walnuts . he was trying to cross the walnut with the pecan when he died.

8. Will the various native plums hybridize with one another? - I think several will with A. americana, but not sure if those that would will hybridize with one another.
Probably
9. Will native currants and gooseberries hybridize with their European counterparts? And will native currants/gooseberries hybridize freely among themselves?
currants X gooseberries are called jostaberries
10. Will native raspberries and blackberries from the north east hybridize with those (Rubus) from the western states? Same question for native blueberries/huckleberries from the east and western coast? Why not ?



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RE: will these various natives hybridize w/these related non-nati

I was shocked to just read that Burbank hybridized native plums (i.e. P. americana, etc.) with european plum (P. domestica) - I thought that this was not possible??

Steve

p.s. it's been a long time since the initial posting..


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