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Grape hybrids

Posted by hoopus WA (My Page) on
Wed, Dec 26, 01 at 20:21

I have a fine hybrid of Vitis Coignetiae x Raisin of Palestine grape. Wondered if anyone else in the forum is into grape breeding. I am especially into muscat type grapes.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Grape hybrids

Hoopus,
I've been interested in grape breeding also for a number of years. I'd especially like to develop healthy muscat type and/or wine grapes for the humid mid-Atlantic U.S. Actually I'd just like to play around with breeding grapes in general (just like I'd like to do with all plants). I've bought a bunch of plants over the years (Swenson's Red, Aurora, Reisling, Gewurtztraminer, Interlaken, Golden Muscat, V. coignetiae, V. riparia, so many others....) but many of them have fizzled out from neglect. I planted them on a piece of property that had been a hayfield and have given them no extra care, other than an occassional (once a year-maybe) mowing. So, only the toughest have survived. I've located several local wild grapes (that are definitely female); they have very small, very sour grapes with not much to redeem them except sheer quantity but then there's the extreme health of the vine. So, my latest idea is to use this type of wild grape (once I've rooted some) as the seed parent and as pollen parents, use European type muscat grapes, wine grapes and seedless grapes; then maybe interbreed the best of the F1 plants.
Sorry, I hadn't responded to your earlier postings; but I don't really have much in the way of pollen to exchange right now. I could probably still get seeds from the wild vines, but they've produced so many male-only seedlings for me in the past, you'd have to grow quite a few to guarantee getting a seed producing plant. Keep in touch, I'd love to continue discussing grape hybridization ideas. Tom


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RE: Grape hybrids

Do keep a lookout for seed sources. Seems very few people save grape seed, and it is quite easy to grow them from seed. Am especially after the species Coignetiae and Lincecumii right now.

Hoopus


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RE: Grape hybrid seeds

I have several seed pkts of hybrid grape crosses, "mostly Vinifera muscat x American species or French hybrids. I'd like to trade seeds for other hybrid vitis selections or some native American vitis seeds, like Rupestris or Lincecumii.


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RE: Grape hybrids

Somebody please say you have the Vitis Coignetiae seed and that you would love to make a gardener very happy by trading seeds. PLEASE


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RE: Grape hybrids

RainMan, I used to grow Vitis coignetiae, but it has died. You may still be able to get a plant from Forest Farm nursery -- that's where I got mine, years ago. Good luck in your search, Tom


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RE: Vitis Coignetiae

I have seed of hybrid Vitis Coignetiae, but not pure species stuff. It is not resistant to root louse and is not drought tolerant, but the hybrid seeds will produce vines that may well be.


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RE: Grape hybrids

Bill Schultz is into Muscats as well. He says that the Muscat gene for flavor originated in one area close to the Red Sea.

What are the desirable characteristics of Vitis coignetiae?

Boizeau, I have emailed you at the addy under your profile. Did you ever get it?

Somewhat off topic! but does anyone know of a grape rootstock that will thrive in wintertime sogginess that turns into summertime parched ground?

Does anyone else think there should be a forum just for grapes??!!


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RE: Grape hybrids

I love wine made from the muscat grape. If anyone has seed I would enjoy trying to grow some!


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RE: Grapes from seed

If a person wants to grow muscat grapes they ought to get cuttings instead of seed. Yes, a lot of the seedlings may be muscat as well, but a lot will not. I am very interested in Muscat type wine grapes as a special hobby. I also like Muscadines, but my climate is not too favorable for them.


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RE: Grape hybrids

i would be interested to know if anyone has created a mildew resistant variety for wine or table. i once crossed swartzman with a table grape without much success. but swartzman when encouraged to get grapes on is horibly sour. so is there a mildew restant variety that gets some grapes on and isnt sour.
thanks kevin


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RE: Grape hybrids

The TV Munson hybrids were generally disease free, but they are mostly table, not wine grapes.


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RE: Grape hybrids

Even the Munson hybrids billed as wine grapes are pretty atrocious wine grapes.

The answer to your question depends partly on whether you're talking downy mildew or powdery mildew, but in general, there's nothing out there in general availablity that is particularly good (or even acceptable) in both disease resistance and wine quality.

The breeding program at Cornell University has a lot of promising things kicking around in it, and a few out to shake out at some point. I saw/tasted some while I worked there. This table doesn't contain any of the advanced selections, but it may interest you nonetheless:

http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/hort/faculty/reisch/breeding/DRtable.html


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RE: Grape hybrids

Around here, the big fungous problems are botrytis and powdery mildew. I don't have black rot or downy mildew in my region.
The best French hybrid red wine I've tasted was Landot 4511.


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RE: Grape hybrids

I have wild grape seeds from Ontario that I have no idea what to do with, so if anyone in Washington would like to try to grow them I would send them seed. I am from the east and miss picking these in the fall.


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RE: Grape hybrids

Am just now starting to collect my hybrid seeds for propagation. Would love to get seeds of a good very early ripe Muscadine to try up here, like 'Sugargate'. Would gladly trade with my hybrid seeds.


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RE: Grape hybrids

I have an interest in breeding hybrid grapes. I'm from England, we get a lot of hybrids here but too many American ones with labrusca in. I do not consider labrusca much better for cool summers than vinifera.
I believe the key to making cool summer tolerant grapes is to cross amurensis with vinifera. Amurensis ripens early and the area has cool to warmish summers and unbeatable cold hardiness.
It comes from the Russian far east, not too far from Vitis coignetiae actually.

Ivan Michurin's institute developed a lot of grapes from amurensis crosses and they all perform well in Scandinavia, the Baltic states and British Isles. We don't have to worry so much about winter cold here, ripening is the issue but amurensis is very hardy anyway.
Amurensis x (labrusca x vinifera) is another potential one

Why have you chosen Vitis coignetiae may I ask? It's not usually used to make hybrids (not sure if it just hasn't been tested for such or doesn't make good crosses). Good luck anyway, I hope to start my own project this year.


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