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jackz411

Hayseedman Over-Wintering

jackz411
17 years ago

Hayseedman, Thanks for your great postings about your macrophylla over-wintering methods and experiences. They make good sense. I have read your posts about 5 times now. Although I am in VT zone 4b I think some of your methods will also work for me. I may tinker abit with your recipe since it gets a wee bit colder up here.

Reading your methods was inspiring. It would be a treat up here to try all those showy macrophyllas.

How do you like your Endless Summer's? And how many hydrangeas do you have and what varieties? Cheers, Jack

Comments (25)

  • Jen26
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yeah, Hay! Where are you? Haven't seen you around in a while.

  • yellowgirl
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was wondering where he is too!! Miss those interesting experiments and observations. Hope all is well with the Hayseedman.....yg

  • hayseedman
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    {{gwi:1001086}}

    It's good to see all of you.

    Here is a hydrangea that I've been overwintering for a long time. It's been in this same 15 gallon pot for years now and I keep thinking it's going to just stop or need a bigger pot, but it keeps right on going. I just bought a "sleeve" of 15 gallon pots, a total of 18 in each sleeve. (Someone was asking last year how much they cost and it's about 5 or 6 dollars each.) (One thing I'm finding out is that you can never,ever have too many big pots around. I end up using them for weeding, storing soil, carrying wood inside, and of course for plants) I've got some hydrangeas in larger pots, but a 15 gallon pot is plenty big enough to get a large hydrangea. When it comes time to put this big one in the garden, I hope to let it dry out a bit so that it will be lighter. It wouldn't be so bad, but I'm usually putting it in the back of the border and it gets a little tricky trying to move it.

    Here's three pics of this big one. The first is when I first took it out of the mound, around the first of May. The second is after it's been slowly acclimated to the outdoors by spending some time in a garage and in the shadows. And the third picture is actually last summer when this big one sat in the back of a border, still in its pot all summer.

    The first part of the picture happens to show my dependable mode of transportation of these big ones. One advantage of being in the North where you actually get snow.....

    Jack, I have at least a hundred that I overwinter. Maybe 30 or 40 that are bigger ones and then various sizes down to some that were just cuttings last year.

    Here is a list from last year before I bought a few more. I've been buying a few new ones each year, mostly from Nantuckethydrangea
    Adria
    All Summer
    Ayesha
    Blaumeise
    Blue Billow
    Blue Bird
    Blue Danube
    Blue Wave
    Brestenburg
    Decateur Blue
    Dooley
    Endless Summer
    Enziandom
    Freudenstein
    Frillibet
    General Vicombe...
    Glowing Embers
    Heinrich Seidel
    Kasteln
    Lilliacina
    Madame Emile Mouillere
    Mariesii Variegata
    merritt Sujpreme
    Nikko
    Nigra
    Paris
    Penny mac
    Preziosa
    Rotschwanz
    Todi
    Tokyo Delight
    vulcain

    Endless Summer seems to be a winner in terms of flowering on new wood for me, but I haven't really gotten lots and lots of blooms. Lots, but not lots and lots. But it's better than nothing and I'm hoping that, once they're established, they'll do better. I'm anxiously waiting to see how they're going to be doing this year. I cut all of mine back to the ground last fall, figuring that they were going to die back in any case and that I might be able to encourage more of the buds in the crown to become flowering buds this year. We'll see.

    We had just a tiny threat of a frost last night, but I think that's proably the end of it and tomorrow I'm going to be putting these out.

    Hay.

  • jackz411
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey Hay,
    Well, you finally made an appearance. The man who was my initial inspiration last week. I thought you would be in this neighborhood soon. Great stuff you are doing down there in CT. Cutting edge, avant garde gardening. Probably western CT. Eh? Keep up the good work. It will take me quite some time to catch up to your prodigious hydrangea collection. But I am patient. Afterall, I just began to think about hydrangeas last week. Catching-up could take me a decade, but as long as I am having a good time, thats fine.
    I may never catch-up to you--but I will have a good time trying.

    Yes, Frank Dutra at nantuckethydrangea is excellent with some great plants and knowledge. I am buying from them exclusively for my hydrangea mini-farm I am starting up here. No, not for the public, just for me and the gardens. I can be greedy about some things. http://www.nantuckethydrangea.com/

    Thanks again Hay. I have never seen a pink or blue blooming macrophylla up here, ever, except for new greenhouse ones bought in bloom.

    You had a threat of frost last night? I had a threat of snow, but never came. New England is tough. But, strong plants survive. Gardeners too. Cheerio, Jack

    ps: Hay, I am going to keep picking your brain. It should be painless, I hope.

  • yellowgirl
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No wonder we haven't heard from you lately....That's a lot of work to be done to say the least. Love the hat. We'll wait for pics while you get them all up and running again!! Happy Spring Hay.....yg

  • Jen26
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hay, I'd be interested in a pic of your ES, and the number of blooms you're getting. I'm up to about 10 or more ES now, and they have anywhere from zero to 40+ buds, depending on the bush, the location, and the soil. I'll try and post some comparision pics if anybody wants to see.

  • hayseedman
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi, everyone.

    Jen, I cut back all my Endless Summers really hard last fall, late in the season. For my zone, I can almost count on the top growth of the Endless Summers to die back to the ground and so I thought I could encourage the crown buds to become flowering buds if I cut them back rather than let Mother Nature do it later on. I wouldn't bet a whole lot of money on all that, but that was my thinking anyhow.

    On one that was very protected and which I didn't prune back quite so hard, I'm seeing a lot of flowers developing from the buds that were left. Mine are slower to break dormancy than yours, so I can't be sure yet just how many blooms I might be getting.

    I've got some others that I pruned back even harder and I haven't seen any telltale cauliflower looking buds yet. But it could still be early.

    Blue Billow, like always, is just covered with flowers. Essentially, every single terminal bud makes it through the winter.

    ....I'm pretty strong, especially after the spring hydrangea moving season, but I'm getting large plants in pots that are simply too heavy for me to lift at all, not even an inch. And it's got to go into the back of the border, over other front plants. I've been thinking about this problem for some time, and I think I'm beginning to see a way to do it with just a few simiple tools.

    {{gwi:1001088}}

    Hay.

  • jerseywendy
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I feel the urge to thank you, too, Hayseedman, especially since I just started with Hydrangeas last year, and your overwintering thread was truly a blessing. Thank you so very, very much.

    I overwintered my Alpenglow and Blue Billow inside the garage in pots and they did wonderful. Both came up with new growth by the end of February already. My Dooley had protective chicken wiring around it, and then I did the bags with leaves. When I began removing the bags, there was tons of new growth on it already.

    Now we're only in June, and the Dooley has flower buds all over, truly unbelievable - I am so happy.

    The Alpenglow and Blue Billow were only tiny babies when I got them last year, and they, too have blooms.

    Other than that I have 2 Endless Summer and today I purchased a (cheap) Forver& Ever Hydrangea.

    Hydrangeas aren't a bit addicting, are they?

  • sheltieche
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was very cautious about buying new hydrangeas since mopheads are too risky for my zone. Now finally I gave in and bought myself nice collection of forever& ever double pink, big smile, nigra and lady in red. I will dig out my Claudie and kaleydoscope and will overwinter them in mound as Hay described.
    Will leave my ES and big Daddy in and see if they are really going to be as good as they say.
    Thank you very much, now I can spend more and more $$ on my addiction ;)

  • Jen26
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OMG! Hay... that picture was just, really...um, fascinating and hilarious, and a little bit ingenious! You are truly dedicated to your craft. How about a pic of your smiling face someday? I did it, now I double-dog dare you to do the same. Anyway, I find it interesting that your ES die to the ground and mine have so little die-back. Then again, maybe we just had a mild winter and I won't always be so lucky. My first flush will be in bloom in the next week or so, and I hope to post a picture soon. Interestingly, I'm getting some diverse colors in my seemingly homogenous bed. No true blue, but some bluish-purple to bright pink. Very surprising.

  • hayseedman
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ego45, I'd take some cuttings. Sure. I think I have Miyama-yae-Murazaki, but I have been so busy that I've lost track of what I've got right now. If you're near Old Weathersfield, I saw last night while they were closed that Comstockferre had a few very interesting hydrangeas for sale. Not very cheap, though.

    Thank you, JerseyWendy. That's just great. You know that Blue Billow does just fine by itself here in my zone. I would imagine you'd probably have good luck with it in your zone, too.

    And, Lindalana, welcome!!

    How could I follow an act like your picture, Jen?

    I think I'm just on the edge of hydrangeas making it though the winter. But, unfortunately, on the wrong side of the edge and I suspect you might be pretty comfortably on the other side. Just south of me a protected hydrangea will likely make it through the winter. I have one ES that was the most protected for me and I didn't cut it back so very hard. I'm getting a lot of blooms on it now from the canes that didn't die back to the ground. Maybe next year I'll leave more uncut to see. I'm still waiting on the ones that I cut back really hard in November. I'm seeing some flower buds, but not many yet.

    (For someone who might not know, a lot of overwintering talk occured in this overwintering thread)

    I'd like to hear about other people's experience with overwintering. Or anything else..

    I tried a technique that Jen experimented with last year. A technique on hydrangeashydrangeas.com.The idea is to press the hydrangea shrub to the ground and then cover it with cardboard and then leaves as I remember.

    So here is {{gwi:1001089}}The bottom picture is of the one in the bottom right corner of the other two pictures, closest to you. But from another 90 degree view.

    I laid some heavy scavenged things on top to weigh down the shrub. I happened to have a large, old piece of burlap that was about to fall apart and I used that to cover the weighed down hydrangeas. Then,as I'm raking leaves in the fall, I covered all this up with a pile of leaves. Late in the Spring I pull it off and the two largest toward the right were covered with buds. The others were a bit iffy, but they were not the most established or near the edge. But they did stand back up and the two biggest have lots of buds. It's a workable technique, I think.

    Thanks, everyone.

    Hay.

  • jackz411
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for your report on your cardboard method, one, among others, I was considering to use this winter on some Nikkos. Its looks like you cut the canes back a bit, is that correct???

  • hayseedman
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think I did indeed prune these back really hard last summer. They've been in that spot for years, and I don't remember now about whether I had tried to overwinter them the previous winter or not. But, in any case, I pruned them back hard in the summer. I know that part of my thinking was to get a more short, stout shrub this summer, but I think I was also just trying to open up the area to plant out some hydrangeas that were overwintered. It's all coming back to me now.

    In my fantasy world I'd have enough Hydrangeas that I could set aside half of them each summer to prune back and prepare nicely for the next summer. Planted out, I have to focus more on how they look this summer and so the plant might not be the best for next year. I've been doing this to some extent each year.

    I just found this little Fine Gardening article about overwintering from a writer who gardens pretty close to where I am.

    His use of pine boughs reminded me of my friend who is in more southern Connecticut, and made a teepee around some of his hydrangeas and then wrapped that with layers of burlap.
    After Christmas he used tree boughs which he jabbed into the ground and stood sorta upright, leaning onto the burlap, adding another layer of insulation and wind shield. He said it worked for him. He's in an area that allows Hydrangeas to make it sometimes by themselves, but it had to have helped.

    Hay.

  • hydrangea2
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ok, sorry haven't checked this in a while. Tbe florist hydrangea did well up to a point. The flowers filled out fully and then as they were starting to get colour and form balls they went limp. I was watering everyother day, but perhaps this wasn't enough. Any commment Hayseedman? I got one flower and then that was it, but it is on my deck again sending up new growth and I will try again.

  • hayseedman
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi, again!

    Did you pot this hydrangea up into a bigger pot? These florist hydrangeas are in the smallest pot that will get your plant through one flowering on your dining room table. I have to pot up my smaller hydrangeas each year.

    Maybe in your case the heavy demand of all these new flowers was more than the pot bound plant could handle? Just a thought.

    And I'm convinced that plants in a very cold outside environment will do the best overwintering.

    ---------------------------------------------
    ---------------------------------------------

    I've had an interesting time with some pruning that I'd like to share with all of you.

    The very first hydrangea that I overwintered was one that's been in the ground for about 20 years now. I bought it as either a Nikko or an All Summer Beauty, but the record is lost. I overwinter it with a ring of fencing and bags of leaves. In the past few years I've been experimenting with pruning it in the summer to see the effects for next year's flowering.

    I don't recall how I managed it, but in the year 2005 I didn't have much flowering on this plant. So, on August 7, 2005 I gave it an easy pruning, expecting a little new growth from the buds remaing near the cut and enough time for these buds to set flowers for the next season. I was able to overwinter it successfully and I got these topmost buds through the winter, but, again, in 2006, I got very little flowering.

    Meanwhile, in 2005, on Oct. 26, 2005 , more than two and one half months later I pruned fourhydrangeas very hard. How hard? {{gwi:1001090}} and {{gwi:1001091}} I made a point of trying to keep a few buds left from the base of the plant. I overwintered these four in one of my mounds. These four were a mix of Nikkos and All Summer Beautys according to the labels.

    Of these four,{{gwi:1001092}}. The other three had just a few flowers or none at all. Interesting in itself.

    So, on the one hand I prune either an All Summer Beauty or a Nikko (which I would have thought to be pretty much the same) on August 7 and overwinter it successfully and still not get any flowers. Meanwhile, I prune back, much harder, four plants on Oct 26 and one of these flowers profusely, but the other three vary from a few flowers to none.

    All over the place.

    So, this year I've made a point of doing all my pruning before July 4, an easier date for me to remember. This is the first year that I have set aside a lot of plants to groom for the next year and part of that grooming is to try to prune them back as far as they're needed. Whether a light pruning or a hard pruning, I've done almost all of it by July 4 in 2006. If I'm right, then in 2007 I'll have lot of nice stout, well balanced , loaded with flowers plants.

    {{gwi:1001094}}

    Remember that I overwintered the old one successfully but still no flowers in 2006? Here's what I'm talking about.{{gwi:1001095}}....But, no flowers.

    Tbe moral of this story is that I've got a lot to learn about pruning.

    Hay.

  • yellowgirl
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hay,

    Isn't it crucial to know whether the plant is ASB or Nikko, since the ASB might bloom on new growth and the hard pruning may encourage that?...Great post as usual....yg

  • hayseedman
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've just always assumed that the Nikkos, the Dooleys, and the All Summer Beauty's were pretty much the same. For me, in the garden they all act the same, i.e., I plant them, every year they die back to the ground and every year I'm lucky to see a stray flower or two. I remember the story about Dooley, about how a late spring frost had killed off the flowers, but new flowers emerged from the buds lower down on the cane. Maybe in Georgia, but up here there's no buds lower down or anywhere else to be found on last year's canes.

    I can believe that different varieties might respond differently to the same pruning. I have a Paris that I took some cuttings from last July 25, 2005, just like I did from several other varieties at the same time. Paris didn't have nearly a full bloom this year in comparison to the others. But maybe it was for some reason I don't understand.

    I counted the other day and I have about 40 various sized hydrangeas that I've set aside to prune and groom for next year. Mostly they were ones that were scraggly looking. And I did all my pruning before July 4 this year. Some I pruned all the way to the crown with the idea of just starting over with them. Some were getting big and floppy and with these I didn't prune them back really hard, but more so with the idea of getting a stouter, more compact plant. In every case, I'd take out the weak, thin wood. Sort of like a Hydrangea Make Over. Isn't that what they call these routines? Something like that, right?

    When I plant my overwintered hydrangeas out, they come back in the fall all lopsided and then it's hard to place them back out next season with this lopsidedness. So the dream is to have enough that I can always have some nice fresh, balanced ones to start with each spring.

    Hydrangea fantasies.

    Hay.

  • chelone
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I followed those wonderfully complete recommendations last fall... . I was ready to cry before I read them. I want to share some pictures taken today. Tokyo Delight (and Spencer)... .

    And many, many thanks to ALL of you hydrangea devotees who have helped me so immeasureably in the past year.

    {{gwi:1001097}}

    {{gwi:182054}}

    {{gwi:187427}}

    Flowers are not beyond my grasp! :)

  • ego45
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Looks like color of Spencer now is very matching to TD.
    Will he change it in a fall? :-))
    Very healthy and proportional TD. WTG!
    Don't cut seems to be spent flowers, wait till fall, you'll be handsomly rewarded!

  • yellowgirl
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Fantastic...job very well done!

    If you check out the link below, you will find EGO's excellent pictures of the color changes you can expect if you leave the blooms to age on Tokyo Delight. It's a long thread but arrow down and you won't miss them.....yg

    Here is a link that might be useful: Fall color changes

  • chelone
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the pat on the back. I look at all the lovely shots of the very select varieties and am amazed at how marvelously diverse Hydrangeas can be. I only have the "basics" here (Paniculata "PeeGee", "Annabelle", Oak Leaf, ToKyo Delight, Nikko Blue, and some varigated type, along with Petiolaris) and was beginning to think I couldn't grow the more tender varieties.

    Well... old Tokyo Delight has charmed me... I think I've fallen for the "lacecaps", having known only the big mopheads historically. I simply don't have the time to devote the winter protection that I now understand is required in my area, so I will likely have to content myself with your pictures. But I can't tell you how charmed I am by Tokyo. Nikko is coming along, and the varigated one took a heavy hit last winter, but there are a few flowers (lacecap) coming along. When they have more to show I'll snap some pics.

    I now need to focus more on the Oak Leafs (pruning for better shape? feeding?) and some staking options for the Annabelles. But I'm just so thrilled that I have FLOWERS.

    (I'm so silly, sometimes). And no, my Spencer-doodle doesn't change color, he just leaves his colors all over every piece of clothing I own. :)

  • hydrangea2
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Hayseedman:

    Thanks for the comments. I did in fact pot it up to a bigger pot. I am thinking the original florist hydrangea was in a 'peat' base. I just added soil around it, since I didn't want to disturb the roots. So, perhaps the peat dried out on me

  • hayseedman
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    {{gwi:1001096}}

    Hay.

  • hydrangea2
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ok, so here I am again with good news.

    The florist hydrangea, that we 'far northerners' are not supposed to be able to get to rebloom, is again sending up flower shoots. They really don't seem to need much dormancy at all. Due to the warm weather this year, my cold cellar was about 60 degrees! I only gave it about 8 weeks of dormancy and have now brought it out and put it under my grow lights.