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teri1566

Annabelle or White Dome

teri55
16 years ago

Last year I bought what I thought were 5 Annabelle shrubs at a very reputable local nursery. They are planted in mostly shade and this is year the blossoms look like those of White Dome. Unfortunately I don't remember if they were in bloom last year when I purchased them. I have 2 more Annabelles that I got somewhere else, planted in the sun and they have huge blossoms. I have 2 questions:

1-Could it be that they are late to fill out because of the shady conditions?

2-If they are White Dome, did I get "screwed"?

Comments (31)

  • luis_pr
    16 years ago

    1. Could be. But it depends on just how many hours of sun we are talking.

    Hydrangeas should be in part shade here in the south. That means about 3-4 hours but, in your neck of the woods, you might be able to get away with even full sun (6 hours or more). How much sun are your shaded plants getting?

    Aside from that, you have to consider that the plants may not be established yet (takes a year) and may have decided to concentrate on their root system during last fall. I would worry about flowers on their second full year. For now, I would place them in what I call "under observation".

    Just wondering, why do you think they could be White Dome? Was that variety also being sold at the nursery at the time?

    2. You and the nursery who bought them thinking they were Annabelles. Some reputable nurseries may give you credit if mislabeling is the problem but it has been so long that they really really would have to be VERY NICE to give you credit.

    Luis

  • ego45
    16 years ago

    White Dome is unmistakably different than an Annabelle.
    WD is a lacecap version of H.arborescens while A is a mophead.
    On another side there are different cultivars of mophead-type arborescens on a market, so if you want THE Annabelle, buy it only when in bloom.

  • ego45
    16 years ago

    BTW, if you bought your plants last year and they were in a white pots with Proven Winners (PW) logo on them, you indeed bought a WD.
    To grow and sell WD in regular black pots would be a violation of licencing agreement by unscrupulous grower/dealer

  • mxk3 z5b_MI
    16 years ago

    Agree with above - very different blooms, can't really get them confused.

    Also 1000% agree with the advice to buy Annabelle when in bloom, if possible.

  • teri55
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Thanks for your responses. The reason I think they are White Dome is that I looked up different hydrangeas and the blossoms look exactly like the pictures of White Dome I have found on-line. Unfortunately I don't remember the color of the pots or whether the plants were in bloom. I guess I'll have to wait another year to be sure. I think the area only gets a couple of hours of sunlight at the most. It's on the south side of the house but the north side of some woods, so it's pretty shaded.

  • yellowgirl
    16 years ago

    Teri55,

    Shady or sunny, the (mophead) Annabelle bloom should still look the same (like a mophead) and I don't think time or location will change that. So I wouldn't wait, I would ask the supplier to exchange them now. Even Lowes and Home Depot give a one year guarantee on their plants. If you bought a plant labeled "Annabelle" you have a right to at least a credit. This is a VERY common occurence even for a reputable nursery as even they can't tell the difference when the plants are not in bloom and I am pretty sure that they won't be all that surprised when you tell them what happened. I don't think you were purposely "screwed", probably just an honest mistake. Happens all the time, especially with Annabelle....yg

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    16 years ago

    George, that's not precisely true. PW acts a broker distributing this plant for the German breeder/developer in the US but they license the breeding rights to a score or more of other growers across the country. As long as licensing fees/royalties are assessed and collected, there is no obligation that these plants be sold under the PW marketing label or planted/sold in their signature containers. My retail nursery is able to buy this plant from several wholesale growers, none of which provide any indication that the plant has any association with PW.

    I think too often we get the impression that Proven Winners is more than it really is - it is just a marketing and plant clearinghouse. It doesn't "own" specific plants but acts like a broker/distributor/marketeer for the breeder-developers. Since it licenses the right to propagate, grow and sell the new patented or trademarked plants they represent to several dozen wholesale growers, they cannot retain the right to distribute that plant solely under the PW label or with PW POS material, although many of the growers do elect to go this route just because of the PW name recognition.

  • ego45
    16 years ago

    Pam, you are absolutely correct and I just oversimplified matter for the purpose of clarity in identification of the WD (in unique white pots) vs generic pots for 'Annabelle'.
    Why WD in particular?
    It's my strong belief that this particular plant doesn't have a 'presence' to sell itself off the benches and NEED strong marketing support to be sold.
    No, no, I'm not saying that it's some kind of inferior plant that growers trying to sell to unaware public.
    It's a decent (I'm stopping short to say 'good') plant for a VERY specific applications: woodland or natural looking borders/beds. And for the best show it must be planted en masse, IMO.
    In no way I could see this plant taking place in refined/manicured landscapes, urban or small suburban gardens. Gardens with a big acreage, woodland settings, parks-yes, yes and yes, but not for majority of homeowners.
    That is why I think that WD NOT in a white pot is a lose-lose proposition for both, growers and retailers.
    Nothing is written in a stone and I reserve my rights to change MY opinion about this plant as soon as I'll have a chance to see anything different than I've seen so far. :-))
    P.S. In my garden it found its place two years ago at the edge of the woods among ferns, dicentras and ligularias and doing its job perfectly. Annabelle which originaly was ment for the place would be TOO showy there.

  • teri55
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Well, I went to the nursery today bringing one of the blooms from my supposed Annabelle shrub. They had the same shrub there this year and it's still labelled Annabelle. The person told me that the bloom I brought isn't Annabelle but it also isn't White Dome. She doesn't know what it is. She's going to check with someone there next week.

  • ego45
    16 years ago

    Here is the WD in prime time

    and in a past prime

    And here it is next to Annabelle

    I guess they can't be mistaken.

  • teri55
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    They can if they are not in bloom when purchased and if the tag says Annabelle!

  • ego45
    16 years ago

    Teri, true :-((

  • Tim Wood
    16 years ago

    http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1390/661804609_e1cecb58b7.jpg?v=0

    White Dome is a big plant, mine is over 5' tall and the stems are very strong.

    Annabelle can and does revert to a lacecap. I suspect you have a plant that reverted.

  • mxk3 z5b_MI
    16 years ago

    Where are you getting the information that Annabelle can revert to a lacecap?

    I'm not saying that's incorrect, only that I've never heard/read that, either in published references or anectdotally.

  • ego45
    16 years ago

    I've never heard about such occurences either.

  • yellowgirl
    16 years ago

    That makes three of us....yg

  • teri55
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    All 5 that I purchased reverted? And in the first year?

  • mxk3 z5b_MI
    16 years ago

    Ah, I see. Well my next question is are you SURE you had the real Annabelle?

  • teri55
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    I can't remember if it was in bloom when I bought it last year! The tag said Annabelle and when I went back to the nursery last week they had the same plant lablelled Annabelle, though it wasn't Annabelle.

  • teri55
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    After more research, it appears that I have purchased wild hydrangea, an arborescens but an unimpressive one.

  • ostrich
    16 years ago

    Teri55, did the nursery give you a refund?

  • teri55
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    No they didn't! I bought it last year and didn't save my slip so I didn't push it. They made the same mistake this year so they know I was telling the truth.

  • ego45
    16 years ago

    "...they know I was telling the truth."

    If they value their reputation they at least have to do something for you in a good faith.

  • teri55
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    You would think so but that didn't happen. If anyone is interested in which nursery it was, it was R.F. Morse in Wareham.

  • ego45
    16 years ago

    teri,
    Probably not here, but such info posted on New England forum could prevent some people from buying from unscrupulous dealer.
    I believe there is a thread going on there about good and bad local nurseries in MA.

  • Tim Wood
    16 years ago

    I have seen annabelle revert - I know it sounds very strange but it does happen. It seems to happen when nurseries store bare root plants in a cooler. Even though the plants were 100% annabelle-like in the field, a percentage of the plants potted up the next year after havest and storage changed to a wild type.

    I spoke to a horticulture professor and he seems to think that a gene gets switched on or off that changes the plant.

    I don't think that the nursery was being shady in passing off bad plants.

    There are many nurseries that are mistakenly selling Hills of Snow as Annabelle. You can tell because of the lumpy flowers.

  • teri55
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Wow, that is interesting. Is there a difference between being put in a cooler and going through the winter? Can shrubs that have full blooms one year revert the next?

  • bcooney
    15 years ago

    I, too, purchased a White Dome that was labeled as Annabelle this past April. Fortunately, my favorite nursery on LI, J. Van Cott's in Greenlawn, offered their apologies and asked if I'd like to swap (half their stock was AB, half WD). They didn't even ask to see my receipt!

    I left with two AB's and a promise to return their WD. What a great place.

  • ego45
    15 years ago

    My hat is off for such honorable people!

  • bcooney
    15 years ago

    It is nice to find someone considerate (they haven't all disappeared!) I just returned the two White Domes, and he apologized again for the mix up. He's sure if he got mixed up stock from his grower, others did too. It's never happened before to him. I felt terrible, like a mother abandoning a child. They were such healthy plants and probably couldn't understand why they had to go back. He promise that the WD's will find a happy home.

  • nycynthias
    14 years ago

    Man, I would have love to any cast off WDs! I have a few acres of fenced woodland crying out for "landscape" hydrangeas, but I just haven't had the funds to reach that part of the property yet. I'm still concentrating on foundation plantings in some parts of my yard!

    That all aside, I have actually heard of Annabelle reverting as well though I have never seen it in my own garden. An acquaintance of mine is an avid hydrangea collector (a tall order in this neck of the woods, what with our rampaging deer populations), and she tests new stock often for growers, hybridizers, etc. She has had a few Annabelles revert, I believe she said it was only about 10% though. If I recall correctly, she tested either 20 or two dozen plants at once.

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