We just had our retaining wall redone (stacked large pieces of broken cement originally used on the wall some 40 years ago) 4ft high and 36ft long, East facing, sunny area and am thinking of planting one (to cover the not so pretty stacked wall) if H anomala petiolaris can be trained to clamber across the span of the wall. I Planted Baltic Ivy many years ago on the other half of the retaining wall (separated by steps) B Ivy is a beauty now but a pain to keep contained. Dirr's book did not give info on training the spread sideways, does anyone have any experience. He did reassure about doing OK in sunny area.

Appreciate ideas and help -
Ditas

Ego45 - Your comments would be greatly appreciated - I have read many of your posted responses and comments in other threads and have great respect.

Ditas

Ideally, they will enjoy conditions similar to regular shrub hydrangeas - a fertile, organically rich soil, a location with some protection from the hottest sun but enough light to bloom well and sufficient water to get them established and continued through very dry periods. And they need a sturdy support (although you can very successfully grow them as a sprawling, shrubby groundcover). Because they attach themselves to a support by hairy rootlets and not by vining, thin supports of a trellis are not going to work as well as a fence, wall, tree trunk or other broad, more or less flat surface.

They can be trained to grow up trees - my own is growing up the side of a very large Douglas fir - but they will need sufficient light to succeed, so the tree should be limbed up high enough to allow good growth. And there is always the issue of competition from the tree roots, which may retard or even prevent establishment if they are very dense or aggressive.

My hydrangea was several years old when planted - about 3-4' tall in a large, 5 gallon container. Now, some 10 years later, it is about 20' tall and has spread virtually all the way around the 8' circumference of the tree. I don't remember exactly, but I waited probably a good three years before being rewarded with only a single flower that first bloom period and 3-5 years is pretty standard before you are rewarded with many blooms.

FWIW, I don't prune at all (much too tall) and other than mulching with compost occasionally, don't fertilize either (with good soils, seldom is there a need to do so).

Before we had the wall redone, it used to be 2-tiered and had assort. Seedums and Columbines on the lower tier bed but the Hydrangea bug bit me and decided to prepare for the Anomala Petiolaris. According to the 10yr history of yours, I will be 80y/o by the time she covers my wall - if I insist on following my heart. It looks like I may have to think of something else to prettify my wall - I'm still avoiding the thought of Ivy - Vinca Minor which covers another patch I have does not climb & Sweet Autumn Clem. (a vigorous grower) will need a trellis - my luck huh!

Thanks again Pam for sharing your 10 experience with HAP!

Ditas

I was so excited to see a few flowers, finally! The next year it took right off and has kept right on going ever since. Mine is trained on a side of some fencing and is now beginning to move over the arbor I provided for it a few years ago.

There are two in my town that are breathtaking. One is on the side of a barn, the main trunk is easily 6" caliber. The other is trained along a loggia on a magnificent seaside home. I'm not kidding when I say it extends fully 50-60'. In flower it is magnificent. In the stark winter months it is every bit as arresting. It is the winter interest of the lovely bark that is my favorite characteristic of this plant (lots of time with no leaves in Maine).

You "scored"! I amended the soil when I planted mine in '93-4 and have done NOTHING since except prune in mid-March, or thereabouts. "Set it and forget it"!

How much thickness room do I allow for her - my problem is, I planted 4 White & Lavender Chiffon, ROS in a row last May, with the intention of hiding my not so pretty wall - Now I guess I'll have to move them, just when they seem to be at home where they are (I was told it will take many years for them to reach their 6-8' hgt & wdth. I cheated quite a bit and set them closer to the wall than recommended, so now a bit of headache! Sometimes, (oftener for me) the heart doesn't work with the brain as far as love affair w/ plants are concerned.

How much sun does yours get (also I think ME has a much better climate conditions than ours) Dirr reassures that she'll serve well even in full sun, where my gal will have to be housed.

Many thanks for responding and posting your gal - she deserves the beautiful and roomy arbor you provided her!

I'll inquire about moving my 4 (Rose of Sharon) Chiffons later as they do look good just 3ft away from the wall while waiting for A Petiolaris to take hold.

I do appreciate very much all the info I gather from all you wonderful Hy'dra aficionados!

It was planted about 10" away from the fence and I remember angling it back toward the fencing panel, installing some screw eyes and stout wire (with turnbuckles) to keep the branches from flopping away from the fence while the rootlets began adhering themselves. I remember digging a hole that was about 18" across and maybe 12-15" deep to receive it. I amended the bottom of the hole and watered it for day two before planting. I set the plant a bit higher than the surrounding ground, figuring it would "settle some". I have done NOTHING to it with respect to fertilizing, though I did water it deeply once/twice a few years ago when we had no appreciable rain for nearly 3 months. It never blinked; its close neighbors are a red Oak, a Magnolia stellata and lots of perennials.

I prune it in mid/late March and some years I'm ruthless, others I simply clip off last year's spent blooms. Depends on which way I want to train it. At present, the main trunk is about 3" caliper and there are 3 main stems from that, all in the 1-1 1/2" caliber range. From those branches there are many other side shoots (the result of hard pruning early on in training) and no shortage of springtime flowers for us (usually mid-June).

This was taken in 2000 (just got my camera) and shows the progress then. I had pruned hard for shape for some years at this point:

This shows the mid/late March, after clipping of skeletonized remains of last season's blooms. You can clearly see the shape of the trunk, stems, sideshoots that will produce blooms. Taken in 2004/5.

I know this was taken the same year as the shot above. Probably about mid-April. Note also the presence of some twine and some bamboo training rods to entice it up to the arbor. It's there now, and I will begin pruning heavily again to encourage vertical growth, though I may have to sacrifice some blooms to achieve the long range goal.

I absolutely love this plant and believe in its worthiness in the landscape. But I also want people to understand that it will "test" your patience and that it must be sited as carefully as one would site any shrub/tree of importance. This isn't a plant you can relocate easily on a whim, with no "consequences".

One of the things I like so much about CH is its versatility. You can allow it to ramble over a stonewall, or train it up the trunk of a large tree. You can manipulate its growth to cover a wall. It will do any of those things easily and willingly, but as with any long term investment it's time and "compounding" that yields the payoff. Anomala petiolaris doesn't "do" immediate gratification.

I can't say enough about this wonderful, old-fashioned plant. It nearly broke my hear to see a lovely specimen yanked out by a bulldozer a few months ago. I suspect the new owners of the property had no idea what a treasure they'd just acquired.

I have set my 5gal pot in the center of the 36' long wall and now won't be too afraid to get her closer than the 2ft the nursery recommended - after all the idea is to get her to plaster & crawl, right?

I am now thinking ahead on where to relocate 2 of the 'White Chiffon ROSharon' to open up the center of the wall - I'll have a bit of time yet.

I have taken many photos but don't know how to post - it would be fun to show you my beautiful disheveled 'A.Petiolaris' at her pot-stage sitting by the wall.

Again, many thanks!

I cannot stress enough that this plant gets really BIG. A mature plant can have a root ball that will rival small trees. It's important that you consider that when you plant.

Incline the plant toward the wall when you plant it. It will look "wierd", but don't worry about it... consider that you're simply giving your vine "a shove in the right direction". You might want to use stakes to help guide the branches toward the wall. Jam them into the ground and tilt them toward the wall. Use cut lenths of nylon stockings to tie the branches to the stakes (tie them loosely, nylons virtually disappear next to the CH bark!).

Once you've planted it, do nothing until other early plants in your area begin to show "signs of life", then you may begin to snip, clip, train the vine. Right now, though... just get it into the ground and begin "aiming" the branches toward the wall.

But don't be afraid to set the root ball well away from wall...I think the 24" suggestion is a good one. Remember, my plant is watered from all sides, your's won't be because the wall will inhibit water distribution.

Thanks for the kind words.

With all you have shared I don't see how I can fail - & PATIENCE, that I have - my 16y/o Nikko gave me a great deal of training with just 1-2 blooms, when mood strikes her (dinnerplate size though). With Hayseed's or Maria's overwintering methods, I may see more next year!

I'm so glad I found this place - many thanks!

In the spring, you'll be able to assess any winter kill, prune accordingly and begin the process of training it the way you want it to grow. I would keep it well watered and mulch it for the winter to prevent heaving.

You may want to secure the branches to the fence panel for awhile, just until the rootlets are able to latch on. I used screw eyes and stout wire with turnbuckles, but with two years they were no longer needed.

Let us know what you decide to do, OK?

I followed all your planting suggestions, tilted her towards the wall, amended the soil, mulched and watered, with root stimulant added, hammered 2 metal stakes on both sides of her. It was a bit of a job untangling the web she created with her numerous limbs (reminded me of Medussa's head from Greek mythology). I noted that when I took the 1x1x3ft post her main trunk was anchored to, it was about as thick as my pinkie finger and the 2 other limbs that went N & S were not much thinner and all three were slightly exfoliating. I didn't think she'd mind too much that a few branches broke off as we were setting her in the tilted position. I tucked some of them between the stacked blocks and threaded a few behind the 2 stakes so they'd figure where to head from there. She didn;t look too swift, sequestered behind the cut stocking ties, for now - as mentioned earlier, she is loaded with younger limbs with rootlets and also lots of light green bumps and new growth extensions too.

I guess aside from watering often and pruning come Spring, I'll just wait with patience.

Thanks again Celone, for your great coaching!

Westy1941

Ditas

This is potenitally a HUGE plant. It's tremendously hardy and forgiving. I cut mine brutally in mid/late March. Once it attained decent size and began flowering it has never blinked at the atrocities I've committed with pruners. Don't allow yourself to be "cowed" by this vine. Experiment! make the vine "behave itself" and conform/adapt to what YOU require of it. It will "fall into line", and you shouldn't gnaw fingernails wondering about it's longterm success. Cut it to conform to your desires. Cut in in early spring. And don't "sweat it".

This vine will "sense" your fear, lol!

Chelone: Your info is invaluable and just as I suspected - that this vine is extremely tough. I haven't done anything to it in 16 years and it's been gorgeous. I will take your advice, however, and prune in March back to within a couple of feet from the brick (horizontal wood). Should have done this years ago. I have no problem losing blooms -
it's only a one-year sacrifice and only in certain places, I guess. I think I'll start fertilizing it too! I used 'Hollytone' on my Nikkos, Endless Summers, and others this summer and they went crazy with blooms. I wish I had been 'awake' many years ago - too busy working for corporate America and not nearly as happy as now!!!!

Thanks again,
Westy1941

First, will the plants grow so large that they will have branches or blooms hanging into the driveway?

Second, will the roots damage the driveway?

Lastly, there are about 25 to 30 feet of fencing we want to beautify. How many plants should we plan on planting to get decent coverage in a few years, assuming we start with the smaller plants and are patient?

Thanks for any advice!!!

Depends on how far is your driveway from the fence. If say 3-4', answer will be 'Yes', but you could either prune or redirect them with no harm done.

"Second, will the roots damage the driveway? "

No.

"Lastly, there are about 25 to 30 feet of fencing we want to beautify. How many plants should we plan on planting to get decent coverage in a few years, assuming we start with the smaller plants and are patient? "

Theoretically 1(one) plant planted in a middle and trained to the left and righ is enough.
However, if it would be me I'd rather buy 2 small plants (x) and plant them as this: I---x------x---I by spacing 1/4+1/2+1/4 along the lenght of the fence. By doing that you'll make your initial training years life more easier. Young 1G plants are not suppose to be expensive, something in a $10 range in my neck of the woods.
I don't know what type of fence you have, but it have to be very sturdy. By any means adult cl.hydrangea is a large and heavy plant.
Good luck.

I received 3 of them for my birthday, they are only very small, the biggest/longest is only 10'long.

I put 2 in 12" pots, and put one in the ground.

I planted it in front of a side section of the house, the house is weatherboard on brick pillars, and has a brick wall all around the base. The plant is 2' from the wall as the bricks are set in a cement foundation, it sticks out almost 1' from the base of the brick wall.

I was hoping to cover this wall, but am now worried about damaging the timber weatherboards.

Is it possible to train this plant to just cover the brick work? The brick work is aprox 14 feet wide & 3-4 feet high?

Or should I remove it immediately & pot it up until I can build that pergola Im hoping to get done this summer?

She bounced back as expected but I've lost a couple of weeks which measures in miles ... she is still quite pretty. Very slow indeed, reminds me of how long it took for my Baltic Ivy to cover beautifully another 36ft retaining wall, years ago (tho quite a pain keeping tendrils in check)!

Chelone - I think of you often when watering C H, but mostly because I have 2 beautiful clumps of 'Chelone' that never fails to please in late Summer!!!

Just curious ... how are you planning on training your C H to crawl and clamber over the beautiful (what looks like metal) pergola ... by ties, I suppose? Will C H not need to use rootlets for additional absorbtion of nutrients etc?

Unfortunately, the photos, which were invaluable too, had been remove - I hope Chelone checks back in and posts them again - a few newbies, would benefit from them.

Mine, to my surprise & joy, is blooming right now - just mere 8 clusters, but a joy to look at, none-the-less ... didn't expect the rewards so soon! <:-)))

The plant grew by perhaps 1-2' or so N, S & upwards - several limbs have riched the top of the ret'ng wall and will have to be guided to crawl N & S. I use landscaping staples, to hold the growing limbs to the directions I want them to go. Limbs trying to reach out front, I simply tuck in w/ other limbs that knew their directions. BTW the blooms have a subtle lovely fragrance ... a great bonus - 'can only imagine when blooms are plentiful!!!

Good luck!

I wonder if anyone here has one, fashioned as a shrub ... size?? I'd like to open a spot for it if she could be controlled as a mound! Hines has Kuga Variegated/"reddish petiole"!<:-) Any thoughts on this (dream), Ego45?

Dirr sited Kew Gardens & Guelph U in Ont. with such shrub form H a. p. - have you had the chance to visit there?

Posyplanter - Thanks for bringing this thread back up & provoked ideas!!!

I wonder if anyone has Winter Glow CH? I just read it described in M Dirr's book.

I don't believe they are invasive like Ivy is, altho will grow to 60ft if given such a surface to crawl & climb - may have to prune to keep in control. It'll be several years before I'll be able to comment, first hand. You must have read Westy's post in this thread ... I wonder if we could have a few, with grown CH to post their photos?

Have you decided how you'll let yours grow - climb up a tree, a wall or a boulder (as a shrub)? I'd vote for a shrub form ... I assume you'll do some pruning & shaping, in time ... your idea of "edge of a wooded area" seems perfect ... I'd do it!!! :-)))

Later on, I found the plant I wanted accidentally, in of all places, Home Depot at Nashua NH. It was already in bloom with its panicles of fertile and sterile white blossoms. That one is in the ground where I envisioned it, and every morning I am pleased to note it never has wilted in the summer heat with a western exposure. This plant was also called HYDRANGEA PETIOLARIS, but is the shrub form. Even the leaves look different from the CH.

I am happy with both selections, however. I am about to order the book by Dirr, HYDRANGEAS IN AMERICAN GARDENS, so frequently referenced in this thread. That such lovely plants can thrive in the colder zones is encouraging to me. Being new to "Yankee" gardening, I was afraid my shrub selections would be more restrictive than I hoped.

caligal, rather than H. anomala, I'd suggest you consider one of the evergreen climbers, H. seemanii or integrifolia. These are not nearly as cold tolerant as the more common deciduous anomala, but they are much more suited to a warmer, SoCal climate and will offer a very similar flowering appearance. They also take some time to establish well before blooming.

You will still need to provide some sort of help/support initially to get this vine to gow up a concrete column

What you surmised about H.a petiolaris, seems to make sense even here in my zone. I've been growing my Petiolaris since '06 (realizing her slow habit) ... a very wet/cool Spring of '08 boosted her growth & even surprised me with beautiful, tho short lived, blossoms! This season started very wet & once more, gave her a great running start, however the last 2 wks of June was oppressively steamy (upper 90s w/ mid100s heat index) ... needless to say, much of Petiolaris' young, beautifully growing, heart-shaped, foliage got steam-cooked, no blossoms either ... what's more, might have stunted her initial growth spurts! €:(

I'm still cleaning up her scorched foliage. She is recovering well, with our entire July, of beautifully sunny & unseasonably, cooler than normal temps ... (tho very dry. easily remedied) ... 'hope she picks up in the growth dept, soon, again!!! €;) ... still has a long way to cover our 40' retaining wall.

Thanks for your thoughts on H.a.petiolaris - I value this thread, refer to it & recommend it, as a great tutorial ... too bad Chelone's photos have been deleted - they were worth thousands of words!!!

Have a great day!