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markmahlum

nutrients

markmahlum
14 years ago

As I stated in an earlier thread, I am new to hydroponics. The nutrient cost is prohibitive and something of a barrier to the practicability of this gardening method. Produce quality, enjoyment and cost effectiveness are the the things that matter to me. Hydroponics on a small scale fails the cost effectiveness test, it seems.

Does anyone have a suggestion for reducing the cost of the nutrients? Is it practical to mix one's own?

Mark

Comments (16)

  • ohman11
    14 years ago

    Read a few post down about Canna Nutes.

  • bilberrybrian
    14 years ago

    To reduce costs you could buy liquid nutrients in bulk, go with a commercial product that you mix with water yourself or buy all the raw ingredients and formulate something from scratch.

    The following website given only as an example. The nutrients here work along the lines of "just add water." Without looking too closely I would guess this website is aimed at the serious hobbyist or the small-scale commercial grower.

    If you want to make a nutrient fromula from scratch there are a few things to keep in mind. First is that the initial cost of stocking every ingredients will be substantial. For example, 500 grams of ACS grade sodium molybdate dihydrate can cost you around $100. That much sodium molybdate will last you forever. However, when things cost $50 here and $100 there it all adds up rather quickly. You will also need to some equipment like a balance, possibly a pipette, etc. Some knowledge of chemistry is going to be necessary and a background in plant biology wouldn't hurt.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Nutrient Example

  • markmahlum
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Correct me if I'm wrong. I plan to grow bibb lettuce for my initial baptism into hydroponics. Eight plants in a a 15 gallon container on a foam raft with aeration. Prices at the local hydroponics stores are competitive with online pricing. I figure it will cost me at least 50 cents per plant for the nutrients. Does that seem right?

    Mark

  • lucas_formulas
    14 years ago

    I have recently made a cost estimate for a medium scale NFT unit (capacity around 1200 lettuces). The cost per lettuce is USD 0,131 with a safe nutrient strategy and only USD 0,095 with a more economic nutrient change strategy. This includes mini cups for lettuce and medium (perlite/vermiculite). If I am not mistaken, the actual cost averages roughly 1 cent.

    In this particular case medium and cups, as well as nutrients are bought in bulk size to last 6 month. The nutrient would even be much cheaper, if manufactured from raw materials on site - as it is often the case with commercial growers.

    About costs of home made nutrients: you have to play smart and acquire a small quantity of sodium molybdate (50 g are more than sufficient and last for years). EDTA Fe chelate is not cheap either, but 1 kg (for less than 10 bucks) lasts quite a while. Coper sulphate is the next expensive component, but you need just a pinch here too. A fine scale that has an accuracy of 0,1 gr is needed as well and will cost you between 50 and 100 USD, if you haven't got any or do not want to borrow one. But that's pretty much it, as all other ingredients, tools or whatever are simply CHEAP.

    I remember, my first starting batch (including the Mo, Cu and Fe) cost me around 120 USD, no joke! The price of all ingredients for 2000 liter of nutrient solution (lettuce formula) is around 6-7 USD. Even less, - depending on source, quantity and price of raw materials.

    The process of making your own nutrients is a bit tricky though, but it all depends on if you are just using recipes or want to test, improve or correct nutrients. You have got several levels of knowledge and understanding in this field. In case you only want to use a specific formula, following instructions and using a recipe - it really is no brainer. The most frequent problem of people starting with this venture is that they play stubborn child and want to do it their own way by all means, instead of simply and strictly following instructions.
    The knowledge you have to have or need to acquire, doesn't necessarily imply what we call chemistry actually, as you can simply use a nutrient calculator. The actual knowledge is more like very specific and particular. General knowledge of plant nutrition and chemistry may be helpful, - but it may also become a psychological obstacle. I would like to compare it with Art: to do real Art, either you know all about it, or you have no clue about it.
    Hydroponists tend to be individualists and even oddballs - and while this may be a good thing in some cases, it may turn out as being quite a handicap with nutrient making.

    Allow me to use another analogy here: It's a bit like cooking. If you are a newbie to cooking, - you really should do what you are told (by chefs) if you want to succeed your first high end dish. Otherwise you will most probably mess it all up.

  • lucas_formulas
    14 years ago

    Oh, sorry as I am actually not familiar with US currency at all... I was indeed mistaken - it should be 10 ct instead of 1 ct! Anyway, the numbers in decimals (USD) I gave, are actual and correct.

  • markmahlum
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thank you lucas formulas. Assuming similar nutrient costs, that is manageable. I'm only now beginning my seedlings so I have much to learn and at first I'll buy gallon containers of nutrients.

    This is not a great year to begin experimenting, however as our winter (in southwest Colorado) has given us temperatures that are drastically below normal and unusually cloudy and foggy days. (We average 300+ sunny days per year.) I really don't want to spend money on artificial heating and lighting.

    Regards,

    Mark

  • lucas_formulas
    14 years ago

    Hi Mark,
    Glad I could clear the nutrient cost question up a bit.
    There is quite an extensive learning curve in this filed, you'd better be prepared ;-)

    >> I really don't want to spend money on artificial heating and lighting.Although this is a topic where one can't expect common sense, I agree with you. Or let's say I follow the same philosophy. Spending lots of money and work, as well as building some high energy consuming environment to grow off season or all year round, is not my cup of tea either. Well in S.E.A. it's easy to say - that goes without saying - but even in a different climate I guess I'd rather think twice if, and if ever- as low cost and energy efficient as possible.

    Cheers,
    Lucas

  • markmahlum
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Lucas,

    I do accept the strong possibility of failure at first although the advice of experienced hydroponics growers on the internet will help.

    Having grown up on a large traditional (dirt) farm, this is quite a strange concept for me to wrap my head around.

    Thanks, Mark

  • lucas_formulas
    14 years ago

    Well, some may see a nutrient reservoir as half empty, others may see it as half full - as always. Others would simply top it up without worrying ;-)

    Look, you may indeed make some mistakes in the beginning, as it is what happens to everyone all the time when new at something. So you should simply take care to avoiding the fatal mistakes, and you'll do fine!

    You may also choose a system/setup that is closest to your former field of expertise. And maybe one hint I often give: when starting seedlings, why not having a few growing the "usual" way in fine potting ground, that you can transplant (after cleaning) into your setup, in case you screw up your first batch of hydro-seedlings? I wouldn't necessarily recommend it with lettuce, but most other plants can be transplanted in such way without major stress or losses. It's perhaps not a purist way, but who carers...if you backup one of the trickier and important steps.

    Cheers,
    Lucas

  • leemc_grower
    14 years ago

    Mark,

    To be efficient about this part of it, I recommend always cutting the recommended dosage in half. Whatever it states on the back of the bottle, go with half strength. Most of the time, this is more than enough to keep your garden thriving.

    Change your reservoir every 10 days rather than 7, and keep the water temperature around 68 degrees Fahrenheit. If I were you, I would go with a 1-part nutrient opposed to a 2 or 3 part. Always use a beneficial inoculant such as compost tea, mychorrizae, etc.

  • greystoke
    14 years ago

    I dissolve wood ash in commerial sulfuric acid (ie: battery acid). It contains all the required trace elements like iron, zinc, boron, manganese, copper, molybdenum, including a fair dose of magnesium, potassium and phosphate.

  • kuyaig
    14 years ago

    Hi greystroke,

    >>I dissolve wood ash in commerial sulfuric acid (ie: battery acid). It contains all the required trace elements like iron, zinc, boron, manganese, copper, molybdenum, including a fair dose of magnesium, potassium and phosphate.how much wood ash by volume of sulfuric acid?

    thanks

  • lucas_formulas
    14 years ago

    Right, and while you are at it, PLEASE also tell us how much of your brew per Liter of water you then use, to actually have enough ppm of the micro nutrients. And, how much magnesium, potassium and phosphate can one expect from such "given", ratio - at least roughly?.

    I mean that's a wonderfull thing you do there greystoke, but without any recipe and/or directions- it's a bit like making others mouth water for a fizzy pop LOL.

  • greystoke
    14 years ago

    It's about 1.5L of sulfuric acid (33%) to 1kg of washed and dried wood ash, left to stand for a day. Siphon-off the clear top-liquid and wash the sediment with clean water. Siphon-off again, and-so-on untill you have about two liters of clear liquid.

    This liquid should contain (on average):
    ±11g/L Mg
    ±4.5g/L P
    ±2.5g/l Fe
    ±300mg/l Zn
    ±150mg/l B
    ±400mg/l Mn
    ±50mg/l Cu
    ±10mg/l Mo

    I have an "Fe"-testset, so i know more or less the strength of the solution. I'm not very particular about the dosing.

  • greystoke
    14 years ago

    Sorry guys, forgot to mention:
    The wood ash must be washed to remove the excess potassium and sodium, but it doesn' need to be dried.
    Just scoop-up the ash and filter it trough a fine collander (as fine as a tea strainer)untill you have 1kg.
    Then wash it in a buckett. Leave it to precipitate and siphon-off the clear liquid. Wash and siphone at least twice more.
    Use the sediment to leach in sulfuric acid, but PLEASE be very careful. Add the acid in very small quantities. If the solution gets warm, wait for it to cool down befor adding more acid.
    Wear gloves and a plastic apron.

  • hydroponics_supplies
    13 years ago

    Sometimes it is practical to mix your own nutrient formula because it allows you to cut cost while being able to customize the needs of your plants. However, it can be a risk if you don't know where to start. You need to research thoroughly on what basic substances would benefit the growth of your plants. On the other hand, you can also buy pre-mixed nutrients so you do not have to worry about what nutrients should be there and how much you should give your plants. The only concern would be is the price, so it all depends on your budget and the goals that you have in mind...

    Here is a link that might be useful: What is the right combination of nutrients for a hydroponic indoor gardening?