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shouden

Reservoir Mystery

Shouden
12 years ago

Hello All! This is my first post on GardenWeb. I'm not new to soil gardening (peppers, tomatoes, herbs, etc), but I am new to hydroponics. My fiance and I decided this year we would set up a greenhouse and build an ebb & flow hydroponics system inside of it.

We are approaching this new hobby from multiple angles knowing that we have a LOT to learn. We bought some seedlings from Home Depot in addition to starting some plants ourselves from seed. We carefully washed off the soil from the plants we bought at the store and placed them into small containers with hydroton. We had some leftover hydroton that had sat outside in a container(and got rained on many times).. we did wash this hydroton with a mixture of hydrogen peroxide and water. We thoroughly rinsed them until there was no debris or discoloration in the water. We also bought a gigantic bag of new hydroton from the store and used some of that for about half the plants. We also thoroughly rinsed the new hydroton.

The design of our system is a 38ga black plastic reservoir(store bought) with 3/4" thick plywood sitting on top of it as a lid. The reservoir sits directly underneath the floodtable that is suspended with bricks. Due to the design and placement of the reservoir, little to no direct sunlight hits the reservoir itself. We do use a pH tester and try to keep the nutrient water about 6.0. We use old 5ga zephyrhills bottles and fill up tap water from our garden hose and then let it sit for at least a couple days before using the water.

So when we first set up our system, the guy at the hydroponics store only sold us GH FloraBloom. We didn't know any better, so only put florabloom into our reservoir. Surprisingly, many of our plants had no issue and rebounded from the shock of the soil washing within 2days and started healthy growth. We left our nutrient water this way for about 2.5 weeks. Our largest tomato plant was growing 2" a day consistently under these conditions. When we went to change the water, we noticed that there was some sort of white substance in the bottom of the reservoir. It mostly looked like silt, but some of it was large pieces almost flaky. I use a fine mesh bag over my submersible pump, so it's unlikely much of it was being pumped back onto the flood table (otherwise I likely would have noticed it sooner).

My first thought when I encountered this is that this was some form of buildup caused by us letting the nutrient water go too long without changing it. So we went ahead and changed the nutrient water. This time we used all three GH Flora products (Micro, Bloom, and Flora). The guy at the store told us to put the micro in first, so we did. So after getting all the nutrients in, I needed to ph Down it. I had just bought an organic ph Down that day and did my best to follow the table on the back to indicate how much to add. To my surprise, when I checked the ph after adding half of what it recommended, my pH was about 2.3.

Okay okay.. I know many of you are cringing at this point. I SHOULD HAVE immediately dumped the water and started over. I did not do this. For some reason, I thought that it best to just use ph Up to get it to 6.0. So I basically added all that was left in my ph Up bottle which still only brought it to 4.0. (I know pH is logarythmic) So I then added baking soda until the pH was correct.

The next day, I happened into the greenhouse while the floodtable was full. The water looked very bad.. almost likely murky algae infested water. I know it's already kinda a darker color due to the nutrients, but the water didn't look right. So that night I dumped my reservoir and re-made a fresh batch of solution.. this time being MUCH more careful with the pH down. I did not need pH up.

Okay, so finally the mystery.. so three days has passed since I changed the solution this last time. I peeked in my reservoir last night and the buildup of white silt/material is back. There is quite a bit of it in there too. It was covering roughly about half the bottom of my short 38ga reservoir. I'm baffled as to what could be causing it. I don't see many people talk about any kind of buildup, so this leads me to believe it is an indication of a problem that needs correcting.

I've read about salt buildup in nutrient solution, but as best as I can tell from reading, this is caused by additively adding nutrients to your reservoir without changing the solution entirely. We have not done this at all and only added nutrients when we changed the water.

What could possibly be going on that would cause a buildup like this in just a matter of three days? I'm hoping someone out there has run into this or can shed some light on this mystery for me.

thank you!

Comments (10)

  • jbblack77
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Could be any number of things, but if I had to guess, it's either silt from the hydroton (not very likely, but I still get silt from my perlite on occasion) or precipitate from the nutrients and additives (more likely, especially with the extra alkalinity from the additional pH up and pH down. Keep in mind, not all soluble compounds are 100% soluble.) If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say watch the plants and see to it that they're doing okay. If they start doing poorly, go ahead and change it out, once with fresh water (flush your media), then the next day with proper pH balance and nutrients. See if it happens again.

  • artwk
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You say you are keeping your ph at 6.0? That maybe too high. I like to set mine at 5.0-5.5, and let it drift up to around 6. Too high of a pH can cause some nutrients to precipitate, which will float or sink in the res.

    Also, it is my understanding that pH up and down should not be used at the same time (can't find the article on this). If you overshoot your ph, just add more tap water.

  • Shouden
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm growing mostly peppers and tomatoes. From what I've read, the pH should be in the 5.8-6.2 range otherwise I risk nutrient lockout. 5.0 seems like that would be on the low end? I'm concerned if I set it that low I may be hindering their growth.

    I'm also curious.. if these are salts/nutrients dropping out of the water, if I add more tap water to my reservoir, will that allow them to dissolve back into the solution?

  • grizzman
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    IF there are nutrients coming out of solution, adding more water won't likely get them to dissolve nor is it likely caused by pH. Normally, nutrient lockouts occur when you combine nutrients in too concentrated a solution and some of the chemicals bind with others before the water can "get in the way" and prevent it. At that point they are bonded at the electron level and adding water won't separate them.

  • Shouden
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Could my problem be caused by bad tap water? I was filling 5 gallon bottles and leaving them outside in the sun.. but I found out last night that in my area they add chloramine to the water and not chlorine.

  • homehydro
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I haven't read the original post yet, but just wanted to say that precipitates can most certainly be caused by pH. However from the reply's I have read, you try to keep the pH lower than normal, and precipitates are generally caused by pH that is too high (above 7) or bad nutrient mixing/concentration practices. I'm not sure exactly but I think it can be caused by extremely low pH as well, like below 4.5 or so. Water quality is always a concern in hydroponics. Again I haven't really read the original post, but here are a few articles that may help you figure things out:

    Hydroponic H2O: Water Quality and Treatment
    Water Wisdom For Hydroponics
    Keeping Roots in Tip-Top Condition
    Oxygenate,Respirate or Suffocate
    Moisture Matters
    Nutrition Solution Problems
    Nutrient Solution Problems (Part Two)

    Sorry for the long list, I know it it's a lot of reading to do, but hopefully some or all of it will shed some light on your issue, or at least point you into the right direction. Even if not, it's all good information everyone should know. I'll try to read the original post soon.

    Also nutrient nutrient lockout (not precipitates) can be CAUSED by "precipitates" because they bind up the nutrients as grizz mentions. But it can also be caused by an unbalanced nutrient solution. Knowing the EC/PPM/TDS wont be able to tell you if the nutrient solution is balanced (and thus why I'm not concerned with EC/PPM/TDS readings like most people are). They readings only tell you the relative strength, you still need to know the concentrations of each mineral salt to be able to make determinations of deficiencies and/or toxicities. That's only done by lab testing, or guessing (based on symptoms).

    Nutrient lockout can be caused by deficiencies and toxicities, as well as precipitates (because precipitates cause nutrient deficiencies). Precipitates are caused by bad nutrient mixing practices, high (passably low) pH, and/or poor water quality (bonding/binding with excess minerals in the water supply). Like grizz also mentions, adding water to the solution wont redissolve precipitates, they'll remain bonded (thus unusable to the plants).

  • Shouden
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I decided to suck it up and buy some RO water from an aquarium store for $.50/Ga. what inspired me was a water stand that claims to be a modern water pumping station that filters the water 6 different ways which also included UV, Charcoal, and Reverse Osmosis(all for $.25/Ga).

    The TDS reading was 63ppm after I finished adjusting the pH to 5.4.

    I let it run like that overnight and the water was still crystal clear today. I'm going to run my system with this fresh water for a couple days to flush the system and settle things down.

    I greatly appreciate linking me to those. I have a thirst for knowledge and always look to augment my own experiences as much as possible by reading.

  • georgeiii
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The discoloration is because of root decay. The chloramine is combining with iron in your water to make that silt.

  • Shouden
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I just wanted to post an update to my thread. After switching to RO water, I no longer have had any buildup or nutrient fallout in my reservoir. The water has remained clean/clear (minus the coloration from nutrients) for a week now. I did find that my pH was bouncing up unusually fast. After some troubleshooting, I found that was caused by the organic pH down I was using. By switching back to General Hydroponics pH Down, the pH has proved to be much more reliable.

  • Outdoor_Hydro
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    1) Use RO water, the chloramine/iron and other things will have reactions that will cause stuff like you are observing. Start with clean RO water.

    2)5.5 PH is too low, especially if you are growing tomatos or something. 5.9-6.0 is the appropriate range. My tomatoes like it a little high, at 6.2, but I usually drop it to 5.9 and then let it drift up to 6.2 before correcting it. Since I started using RO water, I don't even really have to adjust the PH, it starts at 5.9 and takes more than a week to get to 6.1