I need this too! Ideally a spreadsheet with a lot of flower and veggie types, nutrient ppm levels per nutrient, pH levels, hours of daylight per day, light intensity, and 100 other variables. :-)

brian

I'm still searching... I'll post it if I find it. (or any link like it)

theHome made nutrients thread, provides this information for some plants.
There are two things you guyz need to realize here.
not all plants have been publicly tested for these ideal levels. An individual who does this kind of testing is probably doing so for commercial gain and isn't as likely to post his/her results.
Because of the chemicals typically used to construct nutrient solutions, you aren't likely to hit every component on the money.you'll end up with a little more or less of certain elements with others spot on.

The type of hydroponic setup and light intensity will have an affect on the ideal nutrient levels.

Is this what you are looking for?

I'm not sure, but thanks! Looks like what I assumed the list was! Very helpful (if I could read it...it's so SMALL!!)

I've said it several times: ALL these lists are actually USELESS.

Just and example: I'd like to grow water cress and look it up at that list.

1. PH 6.5-6.8
Watercress is a water plant if I remember well, and it grows in various PHs that occur in ponds and not only in such a restricted PH as said here.

2. recommended ppm 280-1260 - well if that isn't vague! They could as well have said what ever you want.

3. As said I don't know how many times: a ppm recommendation without the formula is like if a physician would recommend a person how much to eat - no matter what. From a formula one can conclude a recommended total ppm, not the other way round.

4. There is NO reference on what they are based, they could as well be drawn, invented or guessed by 100%.

5. Forget these lists once and for all and for the sake of hydroponics do not post links of them ;-)

Hey lucas I have a question. What about people who buy commercial nutrient solutions, instead of making their own? For example, General hydroponics 3-part flora series. The bottle states the percentage of nutrient levels(5-0-4), but no ppm's are given. Is there a chart or some way to convert it?

Its a guide lucus you know it all.

Well, there's nothing wrong with products from shelf but they mostly do not state the whole content. Thus when using a specific product, you best call is to stick with the recommendations and also consult with the manufacturer (only). Best is to either leave it at this stage or REALLY get into the maths and fully understand what's going on with formulas.

Often and unfortunately people are more ambitious as their (and the products) possibilities for alternation. They want to improve things in ways they can hardly be improved. You'll not soup-up a eco-hybrid car to compete with Indy racers. Wouldn't it be better to drive it as it comes?

But yes, there's a way to convert from these conventional NPK data given by commercial products, to actual ppm. These ppm again are elemental ppm, although not precisely actual because of unknown purity and only approximate data - as 5-0-4 could be rounded up from 4.97-0- 3.84). And, - these are NOT the ppm that you'll measure with your instrument (eventually) anyway. As I said in an earlier post, both are not the same pair of shoes. Simply because beside the ions of the actual Elements (that figure in the conventional NPK formula), there are other ions present that influence the EC reading (that only then gets converted to ppm that do not actually correspond to the sum of ingredients of your product). In fact to know the total and actual elemental ppm in a commercial product, you do not only need to know and consider the NPK, but the Ca, Mg, S, content as well. These last three could easily make half of the total ppm of any formula!

See now how tricky and complicated it actually is, as you look deeper into the womb of the whale?!

There are conversion rates for "conventional" NPK and even from MgO and CaO to the corresponding elemental values of Mg and Ca (if the manufacturer covers these data as well in giving the values of the oxide form) I posted those formulas several times already. Unfortunately the forum software is way outdated and threads and the info contained in them disappear sooner or later out of sight.

There truly are only two ways of getting to it here, either you keep it simple simon, or you know every bit and part of it, otherwise you surely get lost in translation ;-)

PS: OT @ urbangardenfarmer: have you got any special email lately? If not, please check your regular AND spam folder for a mail that contains "GardenWeb" in the subject. Thanks.

He does have a point though as ppm could mean anything. 280-1260ppm, how much N,P,K,Ca,Mg etc would make a big difference.

@ gmcd
>>Its a guide lucus you know it all.Frankly: a bad guide is the worst there is.

This recalls me what I read long time ago in some local newspaper here in Northern Thailand and agreed so much about: "the first thing to do when you get to Thailand: through away your Lonely Planet Guide!!!" LOL

Thanks lucas. Definitely tricky!

You know I just posted a set of pictures with the Scribbles and Nibbles that's a soil based hydroponic system and didn't think anything of it. That list was out moded, out DATED AND OVER INFLATED. I can even say mis-proven.

so what would you expect people to do? just guess or run a thousand experiements? If anyone cares most of that data comes from Keith Roberto the author of how to hydroponics and various people from the growing edge magazine.

First of all I do not expect people to do anything, I only recommend to either keep (and leave) it simple and pragmatical, or really get to the bottom of the matter which will lead to a second level of understanding.

Right I remember now that these tables are also included in the book you mentioning. Wait a sec. and let me check: yes, a bunch of them is provided in version 4.1 I've got here. In the introductions Keith also mentions that one should follow the manufacturers instructions. But what if they do not correspond at all? He also mentions the fact that the composition alters the conductivity of different formulas. He doesn't mention any source for the chart though, so the "credit" goes to him I guess...

At page 35 he gives the optimal PH range for most plants with 6-7 but he shows the wrong graphics. Now, that is funny - because what is shown in the book is ideal PH in MINERAL SOILS, not in hydroponics. That was my suspicion anyways: this PH chart and data are probably gathered from various sources and actually those supposed to be optimal in soil culture! There's no way I accept this. This is clearly misinformation, no matter who says or writes it. After that, I don't even want to know who actually came up with the numerous PPM suggestions for these various plants!

Here just a few examples how the composition of a formula may indeed influence the EC reading, depending on different ingredients and components and their proportion:

1 gram Potassium Nitrate (very common ingredient) dissolved in 1 liter of distilled water will read 1.25 mS/cm (EC) while the same amount of Magnesium Sulfate will only read 0.6 mS/cm. Thats more than the double/less than half as much. One more major component, Calcium Nitrate will end up in a reading of 1.0 mS/cm. A less frequently and in smaller amounts used but necessary with high Potassium content, 1 gram Potassium Sulphate dissolved in 1 Liter will even be as high as 1,55 mS/cm! (all readings are of specific grades I've tested - results will vary with others and also depend on purity and grade)

I am a sceptic for a good reason and I only believe and recommend what I have cross checked myself or what comes from a reliable scientific source I can trust. ;-)

People chill, a moment to breathe. Hydroponics works. Eveybody understands - hydroponics works. I just don't agree with the waste to benifit ratio. Listen, there's many ways to get to the same point. Choose what appeals to you. There's nothng wrong in choosing something different later.

Let's say there are many ways to get to a similar point. But if you have a closer look at the ways of reaching it, from a economical, yield and quality point of view, the path gets just a bit narrower the more you do advance. Hydroponics works indeed and yet the forums are full of people who have a multitude of issues, nutrient deficiencies and all sorts of little or big trouble.

And, georgeiii you shouldn't suggest others to chill or take a breath when you simply do not identify with the actual topic that much, but just have calmed down from your own excitement when it was about your prefered stuff LOL...

For urbangardnfarmer and anybody else who uses GH flora series, GH has a ppm calculator on their website. Plug in volume you use of each and it will spit out the approximate ppms.

Here is a link that might be useful: GH flora ppm calc

Nice! Thanks pepperot!

As a suggestion, I would recommend that you use the manufacturers suggestions as the best starting point for your solution mix.

That stated, I would then suggest to start using about 25% of that recommended amount and increasing it as you carefully monitor your plants reactions. Each different Hydroponic setup (NFT, Ebb & Flow, Drip, DWC, etc...), will require different nutrient levels. Your Reservoir will also determine how strong your solution can be. If your plants are using a gallon of water in 12 hours, and your reservoir is one gallon (DWC), then you will find it difficult to run stronger solutions as the plant consumes water, the solution strength increases.

Small plants need very little nutrients at first. Start out with about 10% of your maximum target solution (which is 25% of the recommended solution).

If possible, let your water stand or sit in a bucket and aerate it the entire time for at least 4 hours prior to adding your nutrients.

When adding your nutrients, take some time setting the nutrient level, also the PH which should be done at the end of the process. For example, take your fresh water, add nutrients, let it stand for about 5 minutes, check your nutrient level (PPM or EC), and if necessary adjust. Then when this is stable, let it stand for 5 minutes before adjusting the PH.

When topping off your nutrients, I would recommend that you do so with fresh water that has stood for about 4 hours while being aerated. You can adjust the PH of your topping off water before using it.

I have a hydroponic chart I have created over time, but it only includes plants I have grown, and I cannot say this is the "Bible" for hydroponics. I would be willing to share this with others, but posting it on a forum is not easy as its an excel spreadsheet.

Lucas... I guess when YOU started hydroponics for the first time you knew it all right off the bat? You didnt have to ask stupid questions to understand the process? That's amazing, and pretty awesome really. i wish I was as gifted as you.
I understand what you're saying now, where as before i was having a hard time grasping it. So thank you for making that clear.

To everyone else... Thanks for the info and help. :) (and specifically to Georgii, I appreciate and commend the positivity!!)

I've come to the conclusion that I will start off by using the guidelines others have recommended and go from there. Obviously no two people use the same exact measurements and ph levels...that's impossible. But at least now I have a starting point as apposed to jumping in blindly...which is what I was looking for. Trial and error.

Thanks!
~~Cheri~~

Cherry, when I googled and encountered these charts and many other "guides" first, I did fall for them as well, but unfortunately there was no-one around who had the knowledge and did warn me by explaining how paradox ad incoherent they actually are. In fact when I asked around (or asked those "stupid" questions, as you call it), I got links to these charts WITHOUT any reservation!

And, as soon as you advance and leave this track of pseudo-science you have to deal with analyzing real scientific studies and alike that often use a cryptic language and strange measurements and charts unknown by laymen. Then you are on your own as well and again.

Just a little later, there is no-one (or hardly someone) around in forums, that can even answer the questions you'd have. When commenting or sharing your knowledge there is a bunch of people who don't like at all if what they thought true is put into question, - and some hate you for your advanced knowledge and would prefer you out of the equation to be and compete among "equals" again. They get sarcastic, personal or find other ways to get you at a safe distance... LOL

Is that my mistake? I guess it is as I can't blame anyone for what their (human) reactions are, to whatever I say or do. I am well aware to not earn the title of everybody's darling around here. But they have to cope with their situation and states of knowledge and mind as well and shouldn't blame me for talking over their heads sometimes. ;-)

Hi Cheri,

I don't know if this is what your looking for but you might want to try it as well ;)

Here is a link that might be useful: Nutrient List Guide

It's important to remember what the people who prepare these charts are selling......they are selling nutrients......do you think they will recommend you to use less nutrient?