It looks like they're getting too much water and the nutrients are building up. Cut your watering intervals to 4x a day at 15min. cycles. Let your plants breath! And lower your nutrient level to 600ppm for about a week. Lower your PH to 5.8-5.9 to fix the deficiency. You might need to change your RO filters if you haven't already.There only good for around 6 months. Hope this helps.

Yes I agree, your pH should be between 5.0 and 6.0 to be honest. The standard 6.2 pH that a lot of people claim that your plants should grow at is a misconception. When hydroponics first came out people had to resort to pH tests used for aquariums, which the lowest number on those were 6.2 pH. That is the reason why that is widely still used as a marker for a good pH. You should be between 5.0 and 6.0 to be safe. 6.2 could be too much nutrition

I also suspect over watering. I have seen similar outcomes with this combination of drip and recycle and expanded clay as medium a few times. And had actual over watering in other kinds of medium myself a few times. Not sure if it's actually over watering here, or simply "irregular watering". The thing is that the expanded clay doesn't get moist all over and together as in a Ebb/Flow system, because of dripping. Hence if you do not drip frequently enough (under the heat of artificial light mainly), roots may not absorb enough moisture - but if you drip more frequently they'll become too wet. In fact, this isn't the ideal medium for dripping with peppers. I believe that best for peppers is still ebb/flow with extended drain periods with (and according to) any appropriate medium.

I do not agree at all with the PH thing mentioned here. Peppers and other nightshade species grow perfectly well at or over 6 and even 6.2+ without having any deficiencies. But under 5.8 there is a Magnesium deficiency bottleneck that should be avoided by all means. My statement is still from 5.8-6.2 as ideal for Peppers (and many others). Even 6.5 is considered acceptable- but upper limit by some pepper growers! Ask Dr. Willard, he even thinks and tells when ever he can, that peppers grow BEST at 6.5! ;-)
ANYWAY, between 5.8 and 6.2 there is no real lower availability of nutrients or deficiency to be expected with peppers due to the PH. If there is, it should be due to-or in combination with other reasons. My recommendation: try to get it a little under 6 and let it go somewhat over 6 until correction or nutrient change - that is fairly GOOD ENOUGH.

Problematic built up of salts in this medium? Not sure about that either. Simple manual watering (flushing of the medium) with every nutrient change should help, respectively fully eliminate this source of trouble if it is any. This would also make the whole medium moist, once in a while.

PS: peppers can be quite moody and especially capsicum chinense (if this is what you grow) can develop curly leafs for no apparent reason or simply due to a temporary "sweating stress disorder" because of too irregular watering and heat. They do not look that bad actually (just a little stressed perhaps), and from my point of view they have no signs of chlorosis or other symptoms that point to a clear deficiency, due to whatever.

Thanks everyone for your replies. I will make some of your suggested changes and report back with the results.

Well, the peppers look worse than ever. They have begun drooping and the leaves continue to curl and the yellow spots have now developed a brown spot in the center indicating the leaf is dying. I made the following changes: Lowered pH to 5.8, lowered ppm to 600 and decreased watering to every 4 hours. Seems that they are lacking water because they began drooping. I believe there is a nutrient problem here and it may be potasium. Any other theories?

Thanks

I have a couple questions.

1. What size light are you using to grow the peppers?

2. When you say drooping, do you mean wilting, like the plants are drying out?

Just to make sure, check under your leaves for any bugs eating your plants. I don't think this is the problem, just trying to rule everything out. I have experience using these nutrients and from what I can remember, it's hard to read them with a ppm meter, because they're mostly organic. Do you remember how many tsp. per gallon you used? I'm trying to find something that stands out, because right now I can't. It sounds like your doing everything right?

In answer to your questions 1 and 2 -

1. 1000 watt 40" away and about a 4 x 4 foot area
2. Yes they looked like they were drying out. I've been running on the hour now and it has improved the drooping but not fully.

I know there aren't any bugs after checking with a magnifying glass.

When I first started the bloom I used 100 mL CalMag with 400 mL Bloom to boost the potasium which is what it appears to be lacking. That gave me a ppm of about 850 in a 27 gallon reservoir. After lowering the ppm, pH and watering time, I am seeing worse results. The curling did not improve, the yellow spots on a couple of leaves started developing brown spots in the center of the yellow spot and the plants started drooping like they were dehydrated.
Since increasing the watering cycle to once per hour, they have gradually improved off the droopy look. The yellow spots and curling leaves are not improving though.

All ideas appreciated. I am thinking about bumping up the bloom in the case it is a key mineral deficiency. ???? Just guessing at this point.

Thanks

how do the roots look (if you don't mind pulling one plant out)?

Have you thought of a nutrient lock-out problem or some precipitation?
Why do you use CalMag anyway, because you using RO water and your nutrient may lack Ca and Mg? In some case both may be covered sufficiently by your nutrients and the plus of Ca and Mg is just doing the wrong job and give you less of other elements instead (Plus Magcal at the same ppm, means less of all others!). Do you add your CalMag at a decent time frame, do you wait until your base nutrient has dissolved properly? You know that you shouldn't mix both concentrates or let them come "close" in any way?

Potassium and most other deficiency (except N) do only occur slowly. Those symptoms (that get worse) look more like some more "acute" disorder, either due to nutrient lockout or over-or under watering (irregular as I said earlier) or due to any other stress factor to me.

As urbanfarmer suggested, always take good care to rule out any parasites, bacterial or fungal infection first! I was thinking about that as well.

Have you tried to "simulate" what I have suggested? Flushed manually the whole bucket with plain water and let it dry out, repeat with nutrients?
I still think that you deal with some kind of IRREGULAR watering here. I have had another look at your buckets and the clay seems bone dry not moist at the surface (perhaps not even moist enough underneath) . It looks like you have a single tube there to drip. Is there a dripper at the end or just the bare tube end? Can't you manage to drip or feed a bigger surface of those buckets (2-3 drippers)? My idea or suggestion here is to feed more dispersed (covering more of the whole media like in Ebb&Flow), but less frequently. Your technique maybe was Ok until the roots have expanded. Now they do not get feed properly.

It is still possible that your problem is nutrient (composition) related, because peppers can actually show deficiency over time only. Means that their diet seems OK for some time but until some growing stage only, not on the long run and when starting reproduction stage. Even in nature and with decent soil peppers often show heavy signs of deficiencies when full with crops. We also have seen plenty of pics of hydroponically grown (or even from pot culture) pepper plants, that show heavy chlorosis and other deficiency when full of ripening pods. It's frequent but not a must, though ;-)

PS: why don't you find help in a specialized pepper forum?

Lots of questions but many good possibilities.

I use CalMag because I use reverse osmosis water and had serious issues prior to using it in combination with the main nutrient. Lettuce had rotting leaf tips without it as well so I make a point to add some to prevent this issue. The Bontanicare organic nutrients only have about 1% calcium so the calmag boost it up to the 3 - 4% where my plant seem to like it.
I have been adding the CalMag and Bloom in after ther tank is full. One goes in and then the other almost directly after the other.

I have not flushed yet so that is something I need to do. I'll do that tonight.

I wanted to stay in this forum due to it dealing with hydroponics. I can try another but you all are gicing me many ideas.

Also, I took a picture of the roots slightly below the surface and included them in the attached link. I'll keep trying until I get it. Thanks to all.

Here is a link that might be useful: More pepper pics

Well, as I suspected for the (justified) use of CalMag then. I'd recommend to really stir the base nutrients well in before adding the CalMag. And yes, the problem with some of the so called organic nutrients is often (and unfortunately) that they do not provide sufficient amounts of one element or the other, due to high production cost and such. Some formulations even seem to be somewhat random (for what ever reason)...

The roots look OK to me, which is crucial here - I had actually in mind to ask you about those next. Don't over-manipulate things though, as that is said to be the most common cause of trouble... ;-)

Btw. just saying that some pepper forums have a hydro department as well, just in case.

I wanted to also mention that the pH in the pepper system continues to drop. That is opposite when compared to the tomato and lettuce systems which continue to rise. The tomatoes (also a dutch bucket system) and lettuce are both very healthy.

I'll look at the pepper forums later today and see if I can find a place to fit in these issues.

Thanks

I guess the composition of the nutrients in the other systems (lettuce and toms) is different then. Do you use any CalMag there, and/or no bloom yet? No other "exotic" additives like "Snake Sperm" or "Lava Guava" you haven't mentioned? ;-)

I'd recommend to get back to what ever you used previously or switch to what you use with toms now, until you have figured out what's wrong with the new diet/mix and the dropping PH. Seems (could be) that there is indeed some "incompatibility" (Ca and Mg is quite prone here) with the others that create some sort of chemical reaction/precipitation and eventually a nutrient lockout. If Calcium precipitates for some reason, it in fact misses not only as a nutrient but in the PH buffer matrix and PH obviously drops.

All is pretty simple. I am using the CalMag consistently with both the Grow and Bloom formulas and that is all. I am on a grow and CalMag formulation for the lettuce and toms. I had been on the same formulation for the peppers and switched to the bloom after seeing the curling leaves and yellow spots. I also switched because the plants had about 5 - 6 blooms on them and I thought they needed the higher potassium delivered by the bloom formula. Since the change from grow to bloom, it has not gotten better but hasn't gotten worse either. The biggest change was when I stopped watering frequently but that has now been corrected.
I am flushing tonight so we'll see how it goes. Thanks for all the input and advice. I'll get to the solution soon enough if I just keep plugging.
If you have any other thoughts, just pass them my way.

Take care.

In that case, only the add of Bloom is causing the PH difference and drop, due to more acidic components (different buffering also). Together with the relatively low PH of RO water. Nothing fancy, just a matter of facts. But good to know for you I guess. You may just add a little less of that bloom, as having a more stabilized PH could be more important than the composition/proportion of elements.

Don't irrigate less try to find a way to simulate what E/F does somehow: more regular and widespread irrigation (manually in the meanwhile as suggested), but less frequent to prevent those "wet feet" which prevent proper oxygenation and inadequate uptake.

Good luck with it ;-)

Lucas has a good point about the drip emitters. I also noticed from one of the pictures, the drip emitter seems awful close to the main stem. That could very well be the problem. The plants getting too much water at the base and not enough every where else, hence the drooping. You might just need to move the dripper a inch or so away from the main stem.

Wait.. did you add the bloom nutrients to the nutrient solution that was already in there? or did you dump the old nutrient and start a new batch with the bloom nutrients?

It's insects. Your growing area is to dry. You don't mist. No air movement. Take your pick. One liter spray bottle, 1 tablespoon dish degerent, 1 tablespoon cooking oil, add water slowly not to foam up. Do not handle the leaves, you'll crush them and spread their eggs.

You have some kind of bugs.
Your nutrient regimen for chiles is fine although I keep Ph at 6.5.

Georgeiii seriously, how do you know he doesn't spray his plants and he doesn't have a fan? Quit presuming that you know everything. It's really ignorant! Try offering advise instead of barking orders. Besides, did you not read earlier in the post that he checked with a magnifying glass???

hydro scotty, I really think your drip tube is too close to your main stem. It might be that simple of a fix?

Here is a link that might be useful:

Don't you think you should let them answer for themselves. But yes I do know alot. I could tell them alot more just from the picture. I could even tell them where the insect came from. I could tell them why the problem started and why they wouldn't have solved it listening to you.

Georgii?

Please shut up.

You were next to useless and wrong helping me with my pepper plants, and you don't seem to know any science in my field (waste water management). And yet you make outragous claims in these areas that aren't true. This leads me to believe that I can't believe anything you say, and neither should anyone else.

Georgii,
Instead of claiming you could tell stevey this and that, what don't you simply tell him. You might find that giving advise gets a more friendly response that saying you could give advice. The latter sounding more like a used car sales pitch.

Hey all -

Georgeiii - I hate to tell you but you are wrong on this matter. I want all advice but I DO NOT have insects. I have two Cayenne beside these Jalapeno peppers (running on the same resevior) and they are doing fine. I have checked and rechecked for insects but the underside and topside of my leaves are perfect.

I also run a fan continuously for many reasons.

The dryness you mention is only a surface thing. If you look at the roots picture, it is very moist where it counts.

Anyway, for those still following and interested, I flushed the system last night and moved the injector out away from the root zone on one of the two plants. While it is early, I do believe I saw hints of improvements when compared to the one I did not move. I moved the other one tonight and will report back for everyones benefit.

I also spoke in length with Botanicare today and they were extremely helpful. They had three suggestions.

1. Gradually bump up the ppm to 900 - 1000 - trace elements can be lacking in qty when a plant is blooming and peppers take some extra boost during this phase.
2. Stop messing with the pH and let it float more. The plant could be trying to grab nutes at differing pH ranges and I keep forcing it up or down. They also said that continual pH adjustment can affect the nute mixtures potentecy and cause lockout.
3. Move the emitters back away from the root zone slightly and try to find the sweet spot of time on and off.

# 3 really aligns with what lucas and urban have been saying and it may be working. The final solution will be coming as soon as I have it. The plants are blooming like crazy so they can't be all that unhealthy. Thanks to all for the continued support and advice as I work through this issue.

Thanks also scotty for the update and for going through with it. Too often threads have no follow-up and no-one actually knows if and how the problems were actually handled or solved. I don't care that much about being right or smart(er), what some call the "holier than thou syndrome". But if there is no follow up and appreciation for good and competent advice, people who actually give a great deal about sharing their knowledge, get very frustrated and stay away sooner or later.

Why don't you have many experts, real competent people and pros, even not much semi-pros in most forums, besides the fact that they often are to busy for that kind of pro bono consulting?

I guess it is because instead of actually being appreciated, they often get discredited, end up frustrated and stay away or get scarred away to make room again for the megalomaniacs, wannabe experts, google smart-alecks and the united front of guys with the one-line poems or couplets. On top of it, stabbed in the back by those who can't let go, but instead jealously disturb the ongoing operation in the lead and the mud, from a upholstered armchair - during paid office hours. LOL

Well I guess I could be called a megalomanic. Worst yet I'm a believer. I BELIEVE IN WHAT I DO. So let me shine alittle light your way. If the leaf edge curves in check or spray for insects. If the leaf edge crurls out check nutrients.
I couldn't transfer the pictures but all those little spots on the leaves are colonies of insects. Believe or not you couldn't have tried the spray on one leaf? And yes I could tell from the pictures what was wrong with they're enviroment from one picture. I can see two walls and a floor to tell you what's wrong. We live at the bottom of an ocean of air. just because we can't see them we're breathing in vast amounts of insect spores. Bactriea, and other things all looking to get a toe hold somewhere. All that open space, that rug. Yeah I'm wrong alright.

The call to role out any possibility of parasites or fungal infections was made much earlier and twice, but to realize that you have to read what others contribute!
______________________
Believe and Science always were and still are incompatible. And yet it seems that science has become a religion (as in global warming) and the religions are more and more prone to becoming some kind of sciences - or neither fish nor meat LOL.

Believing in what one does (literally and without any second thought here) may be something great and a true virtue. But it may as well turn out as being the biggest mistake you have ever done - namely, as soon as you realize you were completely off track! Btw: Stalin and Mao, surely BELIEVED in what they did, and yet both are supposed to be responsible for 30,000,000 casualties (on EACH account), during their regime.... :-(

Georgeii -

I'm not really sure waht to say anymore here. The leaves are gradually improving. I had insects once and the problem got much worse until I treated for them with azamax. This is just not one of those cases as much as you want to insist.

Take care

Hey hydro scotty, does the azamax work pretty good? I just ordered a bottle last night because I have some thrips in my garage grow room :~(

@georgeiii, if I could come to your house and take your computer, i would. And then I would beat it over your head until I knocked some sense into you. You are doing NOTHING except driving people away from this forum! I'm about to leave and I'm sure others are too. I'm sick and tired of trying to give good advise, just to have you follow up with irrelevant, immature, NONSENSE! Please take yor grade school mentality elsewhere. If the owners of this site are reading this, please ban georgeiii from posting, please!
You bring nothing but negativity to your posts and we all know, that gets us NOWHERE. The people that actually care here, are trying to build this small community into something big, so one last time, if you don't have anything positive to add to the post, by all means, just keep on reading.

Stick it back in your pants dude no one is impressed. If some one feels threaten by a few scribbles on a page I feel sorry their so weak minded. So roar all you want on that side of the screen pussy cat it's all just fluff on this side. I had an opinion, I offered it. That's what an open forum is about...or use to be. That's what's wrong with America, people don't know how to talk to each other. Even over a simple conversation about plants. But really if you feel you have to leave please do. Leave all these questing minds for me to influnce while you chew on that old bone of yours.