1. What is the nutrient solution temp?
2. What is the air temp?
3. What nutrients are you using, and are you fallowing the mixing directions?
4. Are you using an air pump and air stone?
5. What type of hydro system are you growing them in?
6. How many plants are growing in the system?
7. How many gallons is your nutrient reservoir?

I had the same issue with the first peppers I grew, and the issue in my situation was heat stress. The combination of air temps being over 100 degrees daily, water temps in the 90's, the plants being in direct sunlight most of the day, as well as the lack of dissolved oxygen in the hot water all added up to to much stress (specifically heat related). When the plants are heat stressed, they want to abort fruiting, and already established fruits wont grow healthy.

Also because of heat and the extreme transpiration of the plants that I wasn't expecting, as well as a relatively small nutrient reservoir for the amount of plants (10-15 gallons max total for 10 plants), I also had 25% to 50% of the water being used by the plants daily. That causes extreme fluctuations in nutrient concentrations, as well as pH levels too (especially when you forget to top off regularly and frequently).

Google blossom-end rot and you can confirm problem with images.

Apparently blossom-end rot is caused by a lack of calcium to the fruit/pepper, which is a result of too-high nutrient temps and/or too high nutrient EC and other plant stress issues, but not usually a lack of calcium in nutes.

HomeHydro & Sdgrower -

I think that you both might be on to it -

I live in South Florida and the daily temp outside is about 88-90 Degrees daily but have no idea about the water temp. I am using an 18 gallon deep water tote to grow my veggies in and im sure the water temp effects the fruits. I have both a Air Pump with 6" stone and a small fountain pump to circulate.

I not sure if i should move it into the shade or just take my losses? the other peppers (chili varieties - habenaro, Jalapeno, bananna, & a small thai chili)i'm growing in the same tote are doing great.

Only about 20% of my green peppers are affected once they reach about quarter size around. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I still trying to figure out how to add photos. Once i figure that out I think it will be easier to get the help i need.

As for the nutrients I think i screwed up when I first started and used the wrong stuff. just last week i changed over to the 3 liquid nutrients and mixed at the fruiting phase. Not sure how much of a change it will make or the effects.

To be honest I am a rookie at this and not sure what all the scientific stuff means. But after seeing the pic on the web it looks very similar to the bottom end rot.

Get a small glass fish tank thermometer for checking water temp, I get them at wal-mart for under $2. If the reservoir is sitting in direct sunlight it can easily be higher than the surrounding air temp. It sounds like you didn't fallow the nutrient directions at first, but you recently got them mixed according to manufactures directions. You could be just now seeing damage done to the plant tissue from improper nutrient mixing, and new tissue should grow healthy if so. But you will still want to be aware of and/or control nutrient temp. You also need to be aware of how much water the plants take up. If they are using 25% or more water daily, they don't have a large enough reservoir. A general rule of thumb is for large plants you want a minimum of 2.5 gallons of nutrient solution per plant, for medium size plants you'll want a minimum of 1-1.5 gallons per plant, and small plants you'll want a minimum of .5 gallons per plant.

I'm guessing that the plants are medium size right now and getting bigger, but the reservoir isn't. Witch will only deplete oxygen much faster as well. You'll know when you've reached depleted oxygen levels because the plants will begin wilting (going limp) for no apparent reason (not from a lack of water), especially when in direct sunlight, then perk up in the shade. Low oxygen levels will be a constant source of stress. Along with adding to heat stress, water temp is also a large factor in how much oxygen the water can hold on to. The warmer the water, the less oxygen it can hold (air stones or not). The larger the root mass gets, the more oxygen they will consume.

I agree with sdgrower; basically, I am led to believe this is probably blossom-end rot caused by a lack of calcium in the plants (this is probably the most common, and therefor most likely cause for this rot).

Do you use RO water, rain water, or distilled in your hydroponic systems?

YOU GUYS ARE GOOD !!! -

First of all thank you for your knowledge i appreciate it more then you know and will save me allot of time and plants.

EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS TRUE!! 100%

Yes the plants are medium size and do wilt during the day and think at night and morning before sun hits them. ( im going to add another air stone and pump).

I am just using tap water? Where can i get calcium and what products do you recommend?

This is helping and giving me a better idea of what to do before i start another batch. As i am looking to grow tomatoes and some herbs.

Hey. I use just tap. Let it declorinate then test the ppm then add nutes. And Ca+Mg by botaincare is a good product also check out general hydroponics. I know the GH line makes another line called general organics and that has a hydroponic Ca+Mg. I use botanicare's "CalMag" it is called.

As sdgrower mentioned early on, blossom end rot is a result of the plant not getting enough calcium, but that is rarely because there is a lack of calcium in the nutrient solution. The vast majority if the time it's due to environmental factors keeping the plants from taking up the calcium in the first place.

You can add all the calcium (CaMg) or calcium nitrate you want, but if you don't change the environmental/stress issues that is keeping the plants from absorbing the calcium already in the nutrients, it wont fix anything. just adding more elements to the water, wont make the plants absorb them. And once the environmental issues are fixed, the extra calcium isn't going to be needed anyway.

The plants are obviously suffering from lack of oxygen. Also most likely suffering from high nutrient solution temps as well (heat stress), you want to keep it in the 70's (Fahrenheit), especially when the roots are constantly submerged in it. And you will probably need to use a larger reservoir to prevent large fluctuations in nutrient concentrations, especially the bigger the plants get (another form of stress). Also larger water volumes take longer to heat up. And oxygen depletion will be slower because even though the saturation point is the same (for any given temp), and the plants still use it up just as fast, there's more total oxygen the larger the volume of water there is (thus slower depletion rate). There's twice as much oxygen in two gallons of water than there is in one gallon.

I added another air-pump and stone last night and going to find some calcium over the weekend. Hopefully that will fix the oxygen issue. i am also going to add another pond pump to circulate the water more and hopefully keep the temp a few degrees lower. Right now the avg temp during the day is about 90 and very humid.

Im just not sure how i can move the tote and still allow it to get sun it needs. The tote is 20 gal and has 5 plants. Right now the only problem is the green peppers. Do you think i should add nutrients just to solve the issue with the one plant? I am already seeing new root growth since i changed to the proper nutrients. But I'm just not sure about the end-rot issue.

Like i said I'm a rookie and making ALLOT of mistakes - I've been getting most of my info from Youtube and this blog now, but i get confused and afraid that mixed to many ideas together?!?!. Tomatoes & eggplants are my next goal and the real reason i started to test hydroponics. If you know of any videos or articles that would help a beginner(nutrients and such), i would greatly appreciate it.

Did you mention your nutrient concentration? What's the EC at? The wilting won't be from calcium deficiency, but the cause of the wilting can lead to one. A few things that cause day wilting: Root damage, insect damage to stem, any one of the wilting diseases, and way too high of concentration of nutrients. With peppers, go with a fairly low EC. Some recommend 1.0. I go with more like 1.4 to 1.6.

I don't see any reason to buy a EC/TDS/PPM meter, they can only tell you the relative strength of your nutrient solution. I can easily do that without any meters simply by fallowing the manufactures mixing directions, and just adjusting weaker or stronger as I wish. I usually mix them on the weak side, around 3/4 strength for established plant. Even down to as low as 60% strength if it's hot and the plants are transpiring a lot. Now that you are mixing the nutrients to the manufactures directions, in the proper amounts, I wouldn't change it. Go with that for 2-3 weeks and note weather you see improvements (healthy fruits, leaf color etc.). But if your water temps are in the 90, you will just continue to have problems anyway (flowers dropping off, fruits spots etc.).

To increase water volume, sense you are using a water pump anyway. You may consider using another reservoir and circulating the water from a secondary reservoir to the main one, and back to the secondary. A 32 gallon trash can costs about $10 at Walmart, and if you place it in a hole in the ground, the ground (along with the larger water volume) will help keep them cooler without using any extra electricity. Use pipe insulation on the the feed and overflow lines that are above ground. Also even if you can't move the main reservoir with the plants in it, you should at least be able to use something to shade it from the direct sunlight.

Well, I disagree completely. There is reason to use an EC meter. It gives you an idea of the concentration of your nutes (salts) and that can definitely be a big help. I also disagree with mixing according to the manufacturer's directions in some instances, though I agree with the next part that contradicted that statement. It is better to mix on the weak side. How do you know how weak? Use an EC meter. I don't know too many people mixing according to the directions for peppers. That's way too strong, in my opinion, and it that is a shared opinion with many of the pepper gurus here. Peppers aren't tomatoes and don't feed like them. Most of your directions are based on the fact that the most common plant to grow is the tomato (and a similar feeder that is illegal to grow in most states). It's true that you can get by without an EC meter if you know what you are doing and have experience with nute mixes. You can also get by without a gas gauge on a car by calculating your mileage vs what you put in. Makes life easier to have one, though.

HH, don't forget that diagnosing plant issues requires looking at the whole picture. It's just like human medicine. For years, my grandmother was treated for lung problems. Then kidney problems. Skin flare ups. Eye problems. It amazes me that those doctors didn't consider the possibility that maybe all those ailments might just be something else entirely if they just would have stopped looking at individual symptoms and looked at the whole system of combined problems. She died of Lupus. They just wanted to treat individual symptoms and it never fixed or even really treated the actual problem. You tend to advise in the same vein as those docs. It is very evident that this person has a problem with something other than rez temps. Take all of it into view. The night wilting is the biggest clue. That which causes night wilting causes all those other symptoms. Seems to me the logical explanation is the rez temps might be exacerbating the problem of deficiency, but they aren't the immediate one as deficiency doesn't cause a lack of turgidity. A plant will turn yellow as a canary and still be turgid. You seem to have a desire to help people and have useful experience in hydro. I recognize that and am not trying to belittle you in any way. I just hate to see anyone waste time and money to only end up with mediocre to no results due to fixing the wrong problem or at least not the major one.

All that said, high rez temps can contribute to better conditions for diseases that lead to night wilting. However, changing the temps now won't kill what's there. Of course it's good to reduce temps. I always say that. But don't expect it to fix your problem. You need to do both. Fix the problem AND reduce temps.

Well Joe it's fairly simple. Mixing by the manufactures directions ensures you have the proper balance of nutrients for the plant, especially important for 2 and 3 part nutrients (your EC cant do that). You even mention that EC can only tell you nutrient strength, and manufactures directions are only a general guideline (because all plants, and growing conditions are different). Manufactures generally give different concentrations for different stages (seedlings, medium growth, heavy growth etc.). That gives you a real good idea of how strong or weak to make your nutrients. Even if you want to mix on the weak side. Example: if the directions say 1 tsp for seedlings, and 2 tsp for established plants, and you want to mix on the weak side for established plants, 1 and 1/2 tsp would be about 3/4 strength. Two tablespoons each with 2 haves, equals 4 haves. Take away one of the 4 parts (halves), and you have 3/4 (on the weak side).

You don't need a EC meter to calculate that (I failed algebra, but I can do fractions), it's even easier if you go by milliliters (mL). If you can only get by without a EC meter if you have nutrient mixing experience, then I must have started with nutrient mixing experience. The only thing I want a meter to be able to do, it cant. That is tell me the concentration of each individual element in the solution, I can tell if the nutrients are strong or weak myself by how much I add to the water. And yes some plants are heavier feeders than others, and that's the only possible use for a meter that I can see. By taking daily regular readings, and comparing them to other plants, as well as comparing growth rates of different plants together can tell you if they are heavy feeders. And/or once you have taken extensive readings during different conditions, you can predict when they will feed the heaviest. But you just don't need a meter to compare growth rates of the same plants with a full strength nutrient solution, and a weaker nutrient solution. You know if you mix them weak or not (if you know what the manufactures directions are), and observing and comparing the growth rates at different strengths will tell you the same thing.

You may say that isn't exact enough, you need to know the exact PPM/EC/TDS. If you look around on the web (and books you like), you will notice that the EC/TDS/PPM levels recommended for any given plant vary widely (that isn't exact). Not to mention that the growing conditions are a huge factor in considering nutrient strength as well, where are the charts for that so you can get your meter readings exact? Or what about the fact that even different species of the same type plant will feed different (there are thousands of species of peppers). Fact is everyone's growing conditions are different, everyone's species of plant are different, every nutrient manufactures nutrients are different. Fallowing one exact EC for peppers with all the possible variables isn't exact either. I completely disagree about needing to have an exact EC/TDS/PPM reading.

And I'm sorry Joe if you don't think I do try to look at the whole picture. If you want to compare it to human medicine, I look at it like this. Fix the obvious known problems first, rather than just try to assume there's something else wrong for no reason. Again in the field of medicine you can be a hypochondriac as well. I have never said that controlling nutrient temps will fix all problems. But simply fix known problems first, before becoming a hypochondriac. You may feel the wilting is a disease or caused by insect damage, and although I agree that is a possibility, again I'm not a hypochondriac. But there is a oxygen depletion issue, so just assuming that isn't the cause and there is some other issue is just how a hypochondriac would approach it. Fact is there is 5 medium sized plants in low oxygenated water. From what I read the words night and morning in the description of when wilting is noticed is just referring to twilight hours, and dosen't change the fact that there is a large root mass in 18 gallons of water that quickly deplete all the oxygen faster than the air stone can replace it. You cant fix the big picture (or even see it) if you don't fix the obvious problems first (fix first things first).

A while back in another forum I ran across the same thing that has really stuck with me. The person was growing some tomatoes in a DWC system, and the plants were wilting. But water temp was in the mid 60's, air temps were between 75 and 80, the plants were even partially shaded if I remember correctly. So I did some searching for tomato wilting problems online and basically was stumped. So I sent a e-mail to someone I know from tech support at general hydroponics including pictures. And well, I'll let you read the thread: drooping tomato plant. Bottom line fix known problems first before becoming a hypochondriac.

P.S.
And keep in mind these were plants that had no issue of heat stress, and water temps were in the 60's so low oxygen levels due to nutrient temp wasn't even an issue their.

@ Homehydro

Manufacturers of nutrient lines, such as general hydroponics or fox farm, ALWAYS create their instructions for plants such as tomatoes or, more than likely, marijuana. The instructions don't however include information about the vast array of other plant types there are, such as peppers.

So then.... in order for a person to grow different types of plants, it is easier to get an EC meter to gauge the approximate EC of the solution rather than "guesstimate" how much to lower the nutrient concentration based on the manufacturers guidelines to match your plants specific needs. You could say 3/4 of the dose, but in the end, isn't that simply a more farfetched GUESS of what the nutrient strength truly is, when compared to the EC meters simple, fast, and 10 second calculation?

I mean c'mon, that is way too trial and error for me (lmao). I would rather be more PRECISE about what I am doing with my plants. Especially since I am not extremely old and been growing my entire life.

ethnobotany
Well lamo, you can pretend to be PRECISE if you want to, but all your doing nothing but guestimating anyway, you just want to think by seeing a number on a meter you are being precise. Based on what? Did your plants tell you what number to use on your precious meter? No, you are just guessing, and when you find a nutrient strength (number) you like, you think it was because of some meter. Did your plants tell you what EC readings they like the best in different types of weather, and different humidity levels, and different light levels. I think not. And nor do you have a chart that shows different meter readings for all kinds of variables that affect nutrient uptake for different plants. There are none that exist, so you are just guesstimating.

Or are you relying on what others say their meter readings are for an accurate account on how your plants will do? Are all your variable growing conditions exactly the same as theirs? Are you growing the exact species of plant as they are? No, your just guestimating based on completely different conditions, and you want to think your being PRECISE just because you see a number on a expensive meter. A meter that can easily give false readings by the way, both yours and the other person that you are relying on for your so called PRECISE numbers.

but in the end, isn't that simply a more farfetched GUESS of what the nutrient strength truly is, when compared to the EC meters simple, fast, and 10 second calculation

No, your precious EC meter that you cant live without, is just an expensive way to guess the same thing. Much like a calculator is necessary for the lamo people who cant add and subtract like most normal people can. I use the measurements of mL (milliliters) for measuring my nutrients. Depending on witch nutrients I'm using I know it's either 10mL or 15mL for full steriength (10mL for my GH nuts, and 15mL for my Verti-gro nuts). It dosen't take me more than 10 seconds to calculate how much to use. I know how many gallons of water I will be using, then I just multiply that by how strong I want the nutrients. Taking into consideration all the variables (and your precious meter cant do).

For GH nuts, 10mL for full strength, 9mL for 90% strength, 8mL for 80% strength, 7mL for 70% strength. Or to be even more precise, I can narrow it down even more to say 8.5ml for 85% strength, or 6.5mL for 65% strength etc. etc. etc. etc. I can easily narrow it down to the exact percentage of strength I want. 30 gallons of water at 63% strength for my GH nuts is 189mL (6.3 x10 x3= 189). That's as simple as it gets. And measuring it out is just as simple too:

(I have a chart on my fridge for easy reference called "handy kitchen measurements")
1 tsp= 5mL
1 tbsp= 3 tsp= 15mL
1/8 cup= 1 fl. Oz. 30mL
1/4 cup= 2 fl. Oz. 59mL
1/3 cup= 2 2/3 fl. Oz. 79mL
1/2 cup= 4 fl. Oz. 118mL
3/4 cup= 6 fl. Oz. 177mL
1 cup= 8 fl. Oz. 237mL

189mL is 3/4 cup (6 fl. Oz.), and 2 and 1/2 tsp. Though myself, I would just round it up to 3/4 cup, and 1 tbsp, and I have plenty of measuring containers with both cup/tsp/tbs and mL measurements on them.

I mean c'mon man, if you cant do simple math, and/or have time to observe your plants, hydroponics just isn't for you in the first place. There is nothing far fetched about observing plant growth, and with different nutrient strengths, and without any need for a expensive meter just to tell you how strong you mixed your nutrients. Unless your selling them, or conducting a scientific experiment, and need to show exact measurements for comparison in the study. Then you would also need to conduct the same study both with the same meter readings, and under all the different variables (growing conditions), as well as specific species of plants. All that, and the study would only be good for the exact species of plant you conducted the experiments on (not type, but species within that type). you would also need a control, to compare results to or the study is invalid.

If you cant judge how strong your nutrient solution is by simply measuring what you put in the water using the manufactures directions (without the need of a meter to measure with), I really feel sorry for you. I'll bet you have a pH meter also, and go crazy if the number on the pH meter changes even one tenth of a point. OH MY GOD IT ISN'T EXACTLY 5.8 ANYMORE. What do I do? My plants will die if the pH isn't exactly 5.8 (what do I do?).

HH, surely you can't be serious. Anybody that has read a single book on hydro or floated around forums as much as you knows that different plants have different needs and those differences can be incredibly drastic. I am quite positive that manufacturers assume you have done at least a little research on the plants you intend to grow. So, no, mixing per instructions doesn't ensure crap. You know that.

A common scenario in the outside summer environment is having to top off every few days or even every single day due to the evaporation of water. Your concentration will go through the roof as the water is evaporating and the nutes stay behind. This will cause lockout within a week if you continuously follow the manufacturers instructions at the same concentration (I know it for a fact from my first year in hydro). The ONLY way you can determine current concentration and therefore the amount you need in the top off is with an EC meter. I don't care how good you think you are. Or you can just top off with water and hope or guess by topping off with 1/4 the instructions. However, you will only get optimum results with consistency. I don't do hydro for mediocre results. Food costs too much. I prefer as good a results as I can possibly get for a low cost.

You talk about wilting as if I was. I wasn't. You need to pay attention to the whole thing when someone wants advice on fixing a problem. I specifically referred to the NIGHT wilting. That is a VERY important detail you choose to overlook. Most plants close stomata at night. That significantly reduces transpiration and they therefore end up turgid at night (even with some of the wilting diseases) even if they are wilting during the day unless for some reason they are unable to take up water. They will take up low oxygen water. They might suffer extreme deficiency, but they will still take up water. We also, without pics, don't know exactly what wilting means to the poster. Is it a simple droop of the leaves or is it real wilting where the stem is bending, too?

Also, understand I haven't diagnosed anything as it is not possible to be sure in a written forum, especially without pics and pertinent details. I simply pointed out there is possibly more going on that can actually be a more significant problem. Most people asking questions like the original poster have more than one problem (as most of us have when we start out) and certain ones need to be addressed first as they may alleviate the others. It isn't helpful denying the obvious in favor of running around like a chicken with your head cut off attempting symptomatic treatment.

FYI, hypochondria has nothing whatsoever to do with incorrect symptomatic treatment of ailments. It's clear that you don't know much about that condition, so your analogy sucks. The point is this: Got athletes foot? Go ahead and use cortisone to alleviate the itching temporarily. It won't fix the problem. You just wasted money on treating the symptom and not the problem. However, you may have to use cortisone AFTER you fix the problem to help facilitate the healing of the cracked skin. Fixing problems in proper order and looking at the whole picture is a mark of good problem solving, not hypochondria.

Homehydro:

"All that, and the study would only be good for the exact species of plant you conducted the experiments on (not type, but species within that type). you would also need a control, to compare results to or the study is invalid."

I think you are referring to GENUS when you speak of "type." But hey, I could be mistaken. Kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, species, is it not? Come on MAN, learned that in 4th grade. Stop trying to sound smart by referring to species, when you don't even know what sub-classification a species is of.

I will just make this simple because I don't feel like wasting too much time on this bickering. Just because you THINK 1 tsp = 5 mL doesn't mean that is exact. It is actually approximate. Using that calculation you are off by .1 mL for every teaspoon you add. Again, not a precise measurement.

Don't we all make mistakes when mixing? Sometimes, we do. Maybe we forget to add a few teaspoons or add too much. This is another source of human error which would not be noticed by your method until the plants showed signs of a slow, or possibly even fast approaching death.

Then we have the fact that plants take up nutrients at rates that are determined by many things: plant species, how much light they are getting, their individual plant genome, oxygen in the water, biolife in the reservoir, outside temperature, reservoir temperature, etc. You even know that.

So then, to grow plants with maximum yield, you will need to add nutrients at other time than reservoir changes right? How will you be able to maximize your fruit production (which even the layman wants to do) without knowing at least a general amount of nutrients to add to the reservoir? Without an EC meter you just don't know if the plants have taken up .5 EC of nutrients. If I noticed they had, I would top them off so that they could continue their growth spurts. You on the other hand would not know whether they need to be topped off or not.

Unless of course you are so old and have been doing this for so long that you don't need an EC meter. You probably have tons of log books about how much nutrients you added to get plants to grow properly. If this is the case homehydro..... just leave it be and let the rest of the world do it our way.

In HH's defense, 4th grade was a very long time ago and common vernacular doesn't always equal proper scientific terminology. Case in point: People nearly always incorrectly use the word "strength" when referring to nutrient concentration. We know what is meant, though. The fact is that most people forget that short lesson in high-school or grade school unless they either use it everyday, are a biology major, or have a real interest in that side of it. I am one to want to be corrected if I use the wrong term, so feel free to do so. However, most are okay with common terms as opposed to scientifically accurate terms. Aside from that, I think we both said pretty much the same things.

Agreed joe jr. Was having a bad morning, and being a biology major still in the works, well... I guess you could say I am a bit anal about mixing terms. Just the idea of a scientific experiment evokes the meticulous side of me, as all university graduates know, those lab reports done in college must be in tip top grammar etiquette, or you will definitely miss points.

More power to those who can use things interchangeably and people understand them. I guess that is all that matters, right? That people understand what you are saying?

HH, I will just agree to disagree on this subject if you will.

Now I'm really going off on a tangent, but this vocab thing is one that I have trouble with. When you say "more power to those. . ." I think I understand completely what you mean. I hate it because I sometimes find myself trying to figure out whether a person is using common terminology or the proper terminology. You sound like an ass if you say, "do you mean. . ." all the time because people assume you are just correcting them and really know what they meant. You are then a "know it all". However, that isn't always the case. Sometimes I find myself really puzzled as to whether a person means one thing or another and have to try to discreetly determine their level of education on a subject. I also don't like to assume that they DON'T know the right terms and are just using the wrong ones because of a common misuse because you may be seen as automatically thinking they are somehow inferior. So, either way, you end up looking like an ass even if you try really hard to not be one.

We recently had really bad hail storms come through. Our roof was being inspected and the guy talking to me was asking questions. There were terms I couldn't remember as I am not a roofer and have absolutely no interest in the subject. I started off with, "If I am using the wrong words, here, feel free to correct me. I won't be offended and I want to make sure I'm communicating what I mean well so I get what I need." Turns out there were a lot of things I was getting wrong. . .

Haha, I like your short story jor jr ; ) Seems like I usually have the best turnout in a conversation whenever I keep my mouth from moving. That way, I am seen as neither the smart ass, nor the guy with the "superiority" complex!

In retrospect, I shouldn't have ranted about homehydro's use of words, I was just trying to point out any flaw I could find. Even if it was a risky find, that might not have actually been a mistake...

Now, I just hope that canelb's peppers are healthy once again!!

WOW! Fellas Fellas Fellas - No need for all that!
I appreciate the help from everyone and have learned allot from everyone. My peppers are starting to turn the corner! Im hopeful by adding the calcium it will help make up for the temp. issues.

As for the for-mentioned Garbage can in the ground sounds like a great idea but the reason i started this (Hydroponics) was because i don't have Soil where i live, Concrete only.

fill 2 liter bottles 3/4 full with water and freeze. twist on the top and drop in your rez. that'll keep the temperature down.

Great Idea!!!!!!!! Will try today...THX!!

Like i said previously, i would like to start tomatoes and eggplants. Any thought if i should wait till after summer or would it be ok to plant now?

Other than the extreme heat you'll be seeing in the next few months, you should still be good with planting tomatoes and eggplant now.
And really credit about the frozen water bottle goes to joe. I just pass it along.

ethnobotany
I had started a reply earlier yesterday, but decided to do it later because if I didn't, I never would have finished getting the rain gutters up before it got dark. Then I wound up talking to next door neighbor until after 10pm, but it was going to be a sarcastic reply because I simply treat people back the way they treat me. Even thought I'm not sure weather you are agreeing to disagree on the subject of terminology, or weather you are agreeing to disagree on the subject of weather using a EC/TDS/PPM meter is necessary to grow plants hydroponically Or on agreeing to disagree on both subjects. But in light of your post, as well as for the sake of argument, I'll just assume your agreeing to disagree on both subjects, and I will leave out the sarcasm in my reply. So hopefully we can get back to a civil conversation.

First just so you know I'm 42 years old, and I don't really consider that old (anymore), though I would have (did) 20 years ago. I have only been growing hydroponically for about 3 years now, and I don't think I'm an expert. I have never been to collage, in fact I never actually even finished high school yet. Long story short I quit high school to make up credits quicker in adult school so I would have a diploma in time for a automotive trade school that I was accepted to. But I didn't get my credits in time, then fell in a rut working, and too much time went buy to get in the automotive school.

joe.jr317
Of course I'm serious, why wouldn't I be? Just what does mixing the nutrients according to the directions have to do with every plant on the planet's nutrient strength needs? If using the General Hydroponics Flora series nutrients it takes all 3 parts to work properly. If I used just the Flora Gro and none of the other two parts, it wouldn't mater what your EC was (nutrient strength), it's not going to work. If using the verti-gro nutrients I use, it takes both parts (Fertilizer and calcium nitrate). If I decided I just wouldn't use one of the parts for some reason should I assume it will work just fine as long as the EC level is in the right range? I don't think so, why wouldn't I be serious? For plants individual element needs, That's a whole other subject. If you want to get that specific, then just have the nutrients made (or make your own) for the specific plants in question, as well as to match your water quality. What does that have with fallowing directions?

A common scenario in the outside summer environment is having to top off every few days or even every single day due to the evaporation of water. Your concentration will go through the roof as the water is evaporating and the nutes stay behind. This will cause lockout within a week if you continuously follow the manufacturers instructions at the same concentration (I know it for a fact from my first year in hydro). The ONLY way you can determine current concentration and therefore the amount you need in the top off is with an EC meter.

I know all about replacing water to your reservoirs, as you mentioned it's real common for me. But that's real simple to deal with. First when you replace water that the plants have taken up, you don't add fresh nutrients along with it, just fresh water. And the simple way to know how much water to add is to mark the water level inside of the reservoir in the very beginning, so you can simply keep the reservoir topped off at the right level. Naturally because adding to much water will dilute the nutrient strength more than you want, and not adding enough will leave the nutrient strength too concentrated. No meter needed when you mark the water level with a simple line.

And if you do regular nutrient changes you don't need to be worried about the nutrients the plants are taking up, and having to replace them. You simply do that with every nutrient change. If you don't do regular nutrient changes, then I don't care how good you think you are, or what your EC level is, your plants don't absorb the nutrients evenly, and you will eventually still have a unbalanced nutrient solution that can even reach toxic levels of some elements, no mater what your EC level is (no mater how good you think you are). That's why I would find a meter that can tell me the levels of individual elements useful, rather than just a total of anything in it.

No I didn't choose to ignore the word "night" at all (as you want to claim). I just don't believe it was meant in the same context you think it was meant in. I read the whole post, and I know that people don't always use "exact terms or meanings." Didn't we go through this before in a thread when I mentioned the symptoms resemble Powdery or Downy mildew? And if I remember correctly, they later mentioned that there was an issue with one of them. People don't always include every bit of information, use exact terms, notice important factors, or even use words in the same context you would. You need to keep in mind that what one persons interpretation of a specific term is, doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to another person.

If your talking medical terminology with another doctor, it's normal to ASSUME their meaning and yours will be the same. But when you are dealing with people from all walks of life (as in a forum like this) you just cant ASSUME that's the case. You even referred to that exact point with your story about talking to the roofers. If you just want to pick up on one specific term that may have been used in a different context than what your meaning of it is, you'll miss the point and underlining meaning of what the other person is really trying to say and get across. And if your not able to see past that, you wont be to see the whole picture. No offense intended, but that's the difference in really trying to listen to what the person is trying to say and get across, or being judgmental, picky or anal about the way they try to say it. Where I come from that's also called reading between the lines in order to get the point (picture) of what they mean (if your really interested in what they have to say). When your dealing with people from all over the world, and from vastly different backgrounds and education, that's very important to remember.

I know you pointed out that there may be another issue/s as well, I never said there couldn't be. There is almost always the possibility of other issues. But I don't know why it's not understandable to fix issues that are a known problem first. Rather than try to look past known problems in search for a problem that may or may not even exist. That's just beyond my comprehension. FYI that was the point behind my analogy referring to hypochondria. Just another place where you chose to pick up on specific terms, rather than try to understand the meaning behind the words, and thus weren't able to see the picture (point).

P.S.
I like gadgets and electronics just as much as the next guy, especially electronics gadgets and computer related stuff (both hardware as well as software). I also love tools, both power and hand tools. But I need to take into consideration return on investment before I spend the money on anything. I'm just a poor old boy trying to scratch out a living, with no extra money to spare. I would love to have a EC meter to play with, but it just isn't cost effective to even consider. For a descent meter I would be spending a good $100 on it. And as you mentioned "Food costs too much. I prefer as good a results as I can possibly get for a low cost." For $130 (that includes shipping) I can get enough nutrient solution to make 5000 gallons of nutrient solution ($02.6 cents a gallon).

That will grow me one heck of a lot of plants. I would much rather spend my money on nutrients to grow that expensive food, rather than spend the money on a electronic device (that may not even work properly for long) in search for the perfect plant. I don't care how perfect the plant is, for the cost I can grow many more plants that will well surpass the yield of a perfect plant/s. So if you want to call my crops mediocre, go ahead. I'm not in a contest for the perfect plant, the biggest yield per plant, the biggest produce, or even award winning quality produce. I'm simply interested in return on investment, and i think most people feel the same. So I wont be entering any county fairs anytime soon.

canelb52
I used to add ice to my reservoir/s (the first summer I grew). Not in the sealed bottles, but in blocks of ice I froze in plastic containers (like cleaned out butter or whip cream tubs). It does do a good job if you keep up with it. In my situation there was a point that I just couldn't make enough Ice to keep up. But I had 2 reservoirs, one 15 gallons, and the other about 40-45 gallons total. And our summer weather gets into the 120's. You may not have the same extremes to deal with that I do. Smaller volumes of water cool down faster and take less Ice than my 45 gallon reservoir, but at the same time they will heat up much faster as well. You may find you need to add Ice to your reservoir 3-4 times a day to keep a reasonably constant temp range.

That was the case for me, but I wasn't able to be around to add ice that often, nor could I make enough ice even if I did. So my reservoir temps would flocculate greatly in temps. Ultimately I found out I would still have heat stress issues unless I could keep the lower water temp constant. If your reservoir is sitting on cement and the cement is in the sun, your reservoir is going to absorb heat from contact with the cement. You may consider setting it on Styrofoam sheet to insulate it from the cement. Or placing it on something that will support the weight and allow air circulation underneath, but still wont get hot from the sun.

HH;
that post was Wayyyyyy too long. I suspect nobody will actually read the whole thing.
I'm not saying its not relevant, just that its too long. you should consolidate your points so people actually read them.

HH,
You are wrong on several points. I'm only pointing out a few real quick.

You failed to calculate cost of nutrient with any accuracy whatsoever.

You are way wrong about how to top off solution in heat for maximum yield and nutrient uptake. If you feel that is a good practice and are happy with mediocre or lower yields, have fun. I just wish you wouldn't tell others it is a good practice.

You say, "Didn't we go through this before in a thread when I mentioned the symptoms resemble Powdery or Downy mildew?" Well, you don't remember correctly. I never said there wasn't a mildew in that thread. I said it doesn't cause the symptoms the person was posting for. You focused on one symptom, greying patterns. You 100% failed in taking the other symptoms into account and sent the person on a wild goose chase. Root problems can cause light blotches leading eventually to necrotic lesions. Greying patterns that only appear on the bottom leaves: more likely to be splashed nutrient that dried and left residue - particularly if the concentration was too high (easily checked with an EC meter). Mildews don't stay on the bottom leaves! In fact, they tend to start higher up on susceptible plants because the spores don't come from below! I'm not saying there wasn't mildew. I'm saying it a) wasn't causing the problem if one was present and b) is unbelievably unlikely due to the description of the conditions. I'm also saying you should learn a little more about the ailment before being so quick to claim something has it. The person treated the roots (which were the most common cause of the most troubling symptoms listed) and cleaned the leaves, then subsequently experienced a significant change. Just because the person said the BELIEVE they had a combo of mildew and root problems doesn't mean they did. You planted a suggestion in the mind of someone inexperienced and desperate for answers. What did you expect?

Jumping to conclusions is bad advice. Plain and simple. It sucks because I know you have good intentions. You need to know, though, that you are doing one thing I know you don't want to do (and frankly, I don't want, either). You are validating much of what Lucas had to say about you. I REALLY wish you wouldn't give him ammo to say, "I told you so."

If you are still reading this thread, canelb52, I implore you to simply take the advice you read here (including from me) and just do more research based on it. A forum is no place to get answers. Just guidance.

yea i am still reading and doing just that - Guidance - I know everyone has different situations so im just trying to avoid mistakes. thanks for Everyone's knowledge. I'm sure i did the same thing many beginners do and hopefully the next ones will avoid these problems in the future and help save time, money and energy!

joe.jr317
Just how did I calculate the nutrient cost incorrectly?

$130.00 divided by 5000 comes out to $0.026 on my calculator.

Just because you don't agree, or feel you have a better way, dosen't mean everyone elses methods are bad methods. And yes I am happy with my (what you would call mediocre) results. Just because your in a contest for the biggest and best, dosen't mean everybody else needs to be also. I just wish you wouldn't assume everybody is in a contest with you, and/or the way you are.

If you weren't trying to say there wasn't a mildew issue in that thread, you wouldn't have been so adamant agents me even mentioning it, as if it couldn't possible be an issue. I don't claim to be a chemist, an expert in biology, plant diseases, or even pest identification and management. If I forgot anything, or used the wrong terminology, I'm sure you'll let me know about it. But I don't remember reading in the terms of service you needed to be in order to speak. You can say I failed to take into account anything you like, but that dosen't make it true. You simply choose to ignore the fact that I never claimed to know the answer to their problems like you do. Simply throwing out possibility may be a claim to fame to you, but to me it's simply just throwing out ideas.

If giving some links to descriptions and pictures, as well as symptoms and control methods for a possible problem is a wild goose chase. I wish somebody would have sent me on wild goose chases when I was starting out in hydroponics. The forum I found was full of people in the same situation as me. Just asking questions, and hoping for a reply. For the the most part there were no users that had been growing for a while that posted reply's. So I had to do what I could to look things up on my own. And unlike you I never claimed that what I was mentioning was the issue. Just that from what I read about it, it sure looks like it could be an issue. If they don't want to take a few minutes to read a little about it and see if it looks like what they were experiencing, then they don't need to. But I know if it were me, I would have appreciated it even if it wasn't the problem or contributing factor. What you don't remember (or choose to ignore) is that I also never said it was the problem, and there wasn't possibility of other issues even if it was.

Who said mildews stay on the bottom leaves, I never did. Who said it wouldn't migrate? Who said that mildew needs to start near the top? Yes spores are more likely to be floating near the top, but spores need the right conditions to germinate, they don't care if that's the top or bottom. It's where the conditions are right that they germinate and the problem begins, and expands from.

I'm also saying you should learn a little more about the ailment before being so quick to claim something has it.

Again I never said they had it. But I guess in your opinion if someone brings up something that could be an issue, that's automatically claiming that they do? In your eyes that's probably so, but I'm sorry that's not the way it is. That would be just plain silly to assume that.

Just because the person said the BELIEVE they had a combo of mildew and root problems doesn't mean they did. You planted a suggestion in the mind of someone inexperienced and desperate for answers. What did you expect?

On the other side of the coin why does that mean that there wasn't a mildew issue? Just because you don't want to think so? Even if there wasn't a mildew issue wouldn't it be beneficial for the person to learn about it in order to help prevent it in the future, or even be able to identify it much earlier. I suppose that you wouldn't consider useful information, but I'm sure they would find it useful. As well as many other people who read the thread would find the information useful. Just where is it written that mentioning something is automatically claiming that's the persons problem, as well as nothing else could possible be contributing?

I simply don't treat giving suggestions or advice like a contest, but I'll be willing to bet you must be a highly competitive person. You keep saying that your not saying the things I bring up are not issues. Then in the next sentience contradictory to what you just finished saying, you turn around and chastise me for mentioning them. And saying that's their problem, when you couldn't be farther from the truth. Just like in this thread where you said a few times that your not saying that high nutrient temps, and low oxygen are good things. But then you turn around and just want to chastise me for suggesting they fix those issues.

If you want to compete for the best advice just like you compete for the best plants, it's all yours, you have the title. You give the best advice of anybody in the forum, the only right advice, and nobody can hold a candle to what you know about plants and hydroponics. As well as everything else, there's just too many things to list of what you know the most about, so forgive me if I didn't list all the categories.