Hi backyardhydro,

Indeed, lettuce and herbs in NFT, together with the right nutrient formula is the key for success.

Have you used the original Formula from Dr. Resh? I am wondering if you keep the N to K ratio slightly lower, as in the original. The formula I have developed here in Thailand is quite similar, also with higher K than N. Although it uses quite less P and only 1.2 ppm of Fe which has shown sufficient. Also the Mg content is notably lower. In fact, the lower P and Fe (iron chelate) content makes it more economical on a large scale, as both components used are expensive. I've started with 1.2 which was sufficient for lettuce actually, but the basil and some other herbs showed deficiencies until I increased to 1.5 ms/cm.

...ignorant question...how do you harvest them?? That's a great set up and a fantastic crop!

He has long arms.
at least that's what he said last year.
really, you just disconnect the in line and remove the trough to get to the middle.

Awesome set-up. I'm certainly impressed! Thanks for sharing it.

wow nice, damn I wish I cound get some of those gullies here, pvc pipe just doesn't cut it with lettuce.

ohhhh!! Well I guess that makes sense.

"...ignorant question.."

I'm sorry, I just cant get past how rude this statement is. Especially from someone who says they are new to hydroponics. Hopefully you can refrain from asking any ignorant questions yourself or what goes around will probably come back around to bite you. People ask questions because they don't know the answers and/or looking for other ideas. When I was in school, the the teachers always said there was no stupid questions, unless you already know the answer. Just keep in mind that someone else might think your question is ignorant. How will you feel when they tell you so. We all have are days, I just wanted you to see it from the other persons side, you may find yourself on the other side some day.

What are you on about homehydro? You smoking to much of the good stuff?

@ homehydro,
When cherry used the term "ignorant question", he was actually referring to himself, respectively to the question that followed. Well, although English isn't my mother tongue at all, I got that part right and straight away from this end. ;-)

"@ homehydro,
When cherry used the term "ignorant question", he was actually referring to himself, respectively to the question that followed. Well, although English isn't my mother tongue at all, I got that part right and straight away from this end. ;-)"

Sorry for the confusion, but if he/she would have said "sorry about asking such a ignorant question" that would make it more clear. That's good English where I come from.

Well, where I come from, - the right to have the benefit of the doubt is in vigor as well. A simple question, as in "how did you mean that?" usually clears things up and assures the benefit of the doubt. ;-)

Perhaps benefit of the doubt would have been the right choice here. But benefit of the doubt can lead to a passive attitude, that passive attitude can lead to people getting out of control. I would rather risk being wrong and needing to admit it than let someone think that it was acceptable to put others down.

To: cheri_berry,
I am sorry that I miss understood your intent, though you simply you don't need to apologize for asking a question that you don't know the answer to, and there is no need to refer to it as an ignorant question in my book (that's why I didn't understand). That's how you learn, and if someone gives you a hard time for asking a question, there the ones with the problem.

I was referring to the benefit of the doubt in this particular case, not generally speaking, nor implying any particular case where silence doesn't exactly mean there is consent... I hope/guess we mean the same thing here. But then again and generally speaking I suggest ASKING back anyway. Many people assume and are anticipating others intentions and actual messages repeatedly wrongly. This is so much a "western" way: firstly you are assuming "freely", eventually reacting bluntly and boldly - and afterwards you can always excuse for anticipating wrongly. How practical is that? ;-)

In Asia or many other countries that "self-excusing safety system" will not work. If you screw it up in the first place, you cannot simply excuse for it later- as that will not count nor be easily accepted. Why? Well, because you were wrong, did the wrong call and used bad judgement. Thus you simply shut up and learn from it quietly instead of talking you out of it with a few parroted social formulas. I am not saying either is wrong or right, but than again with the "western style" you can be wrong a hundred or a thousand more times and always excuse and never actually learn nor change your attitudes and ways.

Generally speaking : in fact one has to decide if he/she either wants to understand and respect what others really mean, or if in fact they don't want. Because if they believe exclusively in their own judgement, they should leave others alone and don't bother anyway. Perhaps go on assuming stubbornly and wrongly again and again and repeat excusing for their wrong assumptions endlessly. Even better, invite others gently to change and adopt to their personal views and standards the way they could finally be understood by them LOL...

That would be what I call a perfectly working self-sufficiency pattern, that would keep whole cultures of any continent busy for centuries, without understanding what's actually going on between people...

Hey, what about that NFT setup, why isn't there ANY feedback from the thread starter since?

"This is so much a "western" way: firstly you are assuming "freely", eventually reacting bluntly and boldly - and afterwards you can always excuse for anticipating wrongly. How practical is that? ;-) "

I am from the west.

"In Asia or many other countries that "self-excusing safety system" will not work. If you screw it up in the first place, you cannot simply excuse for it later- as that will not count nor be easily accepted. "

I'll keep that in mind when/if I ever visit Asia.

"Thus you simply shut up and learn from it quietly instead of talking you out of it with a few parroted social formulas."

I won't simply shut up and go away because you say so. If you don't like my explanation, you can simply ignore it. But you are not the worlds shut up police/censor.

"I am not saying either is wrong or right,"

You absolutely are.

"but than again with the "western style" you can be wrong a hundred or a thousand more times and always excuse and never actually learn nor change your attitudes and ways. "

Then I take it all back and I am not sorry about anything, that way I wouldn't be changing my position. The western way is not to excuse themselves from any responsibility when they do wrong, but quite the opposite. In fact an apology is (especially with an explanation) is the right thing to do when you have done wrong. That's something you simply would not know about. It does not excuse responsibility, but is taking responsibility for it.

"one has to decide if he/she either wants to understand and respect what others really mean, or if in fact they don't want. Because if they believe exclusively in their own judgement, they should leave others alone and don't bother anyway. Perhaps go on assuming stubbornly and wrongly again and again and repeat excusing for their wrong assumptions endlessly. "

What other judgment is there? the world is filled with with individual judgments (except for a few Siamese twins), that's why people vote. You don't need to accept my words, I don't really care. Just remember that I don't need to give you any respect either, and If I say anything to YOU in the future that I later regret, I'll remember that apologies are not acceptable to you, so I wont bother.

@ Homehydro....Dude, really? Relax.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Greene Tomato

@ homehydro,
I thought I was taking good care of talking and explaining my point of view "in general", and yet you wouldn't understand that and take it personally instead. Even my narrating about "Asian mentality" wasn't understood as a simple example but provoked spontaneus opposition to some different optics and mentality.

You said that you would rather risk being wrong than let someone think that it was acceptable to put others down, right...?
But is it necessary to put someone else wrongly down instead - and apparently completely misunderstand and turn away the one that only tries to clear up things? I cant say otherwise than that I doubt this kind of "philosophy".

You say that apologising is a way of taking responsibility and to admit an error, and yet you now push and blame it all on the outside at the end. In fact on the one that actually tries to explain the difference between what subjectively "seems"- and what actually was intended. And once more you do not ask how any of what I tried to explain was meant - but assume it is offensive towards you instead. I am truly confused and wonder how this is supposed to lead to some understanding or consent. Under such circumstances I believe that whatever I try to say and no matter how I put it, it wouldn't find any understanding from your side soon.

And yes, - as far as I am concerned, I'd rather go back on topic from here and better let this merely confusing "personal stuff" go. ;-)

@Lucas...Thanks man, that's exactly right, I was referring to my own question that *I* was asking. (and by the way, I'm a girl ;) 'Cheri' is pronounced like 'Sherry')

@home Hydro...dude...BITE ME. REad it again you moron.

ig·no·rantâ â[ig-ner-uhnt] Show IPA
Âadjective
1.
lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2.
lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3.
uninformed; unaware.
4.
due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

It's called using the right word. It wasn't a 'stupid' question.

Should I excuse for getting you gender wrongly cheri? My mistake anyway...I may have been confused with French grammar and the male/female expressions for "chéri" vs. "chérie". Which are the words for darling or sweetheart and in my second language written differently (actually opposite as here) depending on gender ;-)

As I always say: there's nothing wrong with anticipation as long as you're right LOL

"But is it necessary to put someone else wrongly down instead - and apparently completely misunderstand and turn away the one that only tries to clear up things? I cant say otherwise than that I doubt this kind of "philosophy". "

Your next two statements after my original post in this thread were useful in clearing things up, as well as my responses to them were making amends for my misunderstanding of the intent of the statement. It was your third post that was nothing but redorick and an attempt to put me in my place, that's where the problem you started (and still continues).

"@home Hydro...dude...BITE ME. REad it again you moron. "

Consider yourself bitten if you wish, I understand what the words in question mean. Without any explanation it STILL sounds like a sarcastic remark to a post that did not even ask a question, like he should not have posted the post in the first place unless he had a valid question to ask. There was nothing in your post that led me to believe you were referring to yourself. That was what led to my confusion, like it or not.

Don't complain Homehydro, as it was you with your first post who merely and clearly started to put people in their place. If you would had given it a second thought and spared us from that, - all of this wasn't ever happening. Any causal chain starts somewhere, ain't it? You start any venturesome anytime, - but don't complain eventually but watch you A** ! Hey, that are the basic rules of cause and effect in this world - no rhetoric or semantic embellishing needed for that part ;-)

I second the notion that cheri's question implied she was asking a question she was ignorant about the answer for, not a question the was in and of itself ignorant.
So could we please just drop it. The point is taken, both of you. Search the forums, this argument has been done about 100 times in the last 6 months.
Go puff your chest up at your kids or something.

"Don't complain Homehydro, as it was you with your first post who merely and clearly started to put people in their place. If you would had given it a second thought and spared us from that, - all of this wasn't ever happening. Any causal chain starts somewhere, ain't it? You start any venturesome anytime, - but don't complain eventually but watch you A** ! Hey, that are the basic rules of cause and effect in this world - no rhetoric or semantic embellishing needed for that part ;-)"

Who is complaining? You are the one trying to be the "Alpha Male", you are just upset because I wont submit to you and just go away with my tail between my legs. The harder you try to get me to submit the worse it gets. You just feel because I am new to this forum that I am fresh meat and would be easy to dominate. If you did not have the need to be top dog (Alpha Male), I would not have any reason to refuse to submit to it.

If you really cared about the thread, you wouldn't keep trying to dominate me as you continue to do. But that's not your nature, you simply have a need to be the Alpha Male that is much greater than actually caring about the thread, or even forum for that matter.

Wow..talk about a thread that went south..lol I think I will start another one with updated photos over the weekend.

We have started eating lettuce every night. I took 5 bags to work the other day, and gave away 5 heads today to my aunt. Basil seedlings and pepper plants are perking up.

No Lucas, I wasn't offended or anything, just correcting you so you knew. No apology necessary :)

@ homehydro, you finally get to the bottom of your problem.
But sorry, you take it from there.

@ backyardhydro,
How good are the chances that I get some replies to my questions?
I don't mind if it's in this thread or a "clean-one", slowly I get used to sort the valuable info from the rest here.

Maybe you shouldn't leave your NFT setup alone for that long in such an exposed environment. LOL- Just kidding of course. And yet, (without your involvement of course) looks if that is what's actually and unfortunately happening too often here.

"you finally get to the bottom of your problem.
But sorry, you take it from there."

I always knew what the problem was, and I will be happy to take it anywhere it needs to go.

For lucas_formula:

Q::Have you used the original Formula from Dr. Resh?

A:: Think I pulled Resh formula from the Resh Hydroponic Food Production book. Also, have the Morgan book Hydroponic Lettuce Production. What is interesting is the differences in formulas between "experts". My feelings are, come up with something similar and it should be fine for a "hobby" system. If the plants are growing happily along I am happy. If something doesn't look right, research and adjust.

@backyardhydro,
I couldn't agree more - I mean about the general tendency of "if luck falls, nobody checks - but if luck doesn't fall, everybody checks". And I can understand that - but then again it has this irony I'd like to replace with "if luck falls, you may also check". That's why I care and am interested in the details of your formula, respectively what exact formula was used with a successful venture. If you don't exactly remember it's Ok though. ;-)

Thanks and cheers,
Lucas

lucas_formula:

From the Resh - Hydroponic Home Food Gardens - Lettuce/Leafy vegetables formula...grams/100 liters

Part A
Calcium nitrate 58
Iron chelate(10%) 3

Part B
Potassium nitrate 29
Monopotassium phosphate 18
Magnesium sulfate 31

I mix A and B to 15 gallons at 100 times concentration. I manually dose at 1/100 mix each a and b/water. Micro mix numbers I do not have handy.

To clarify for those who would like to use a similar mix...the G/100L given are target nutrient solution. I mix a concentrated solution (parts a and b) which are 100 times numbers. For example: 5800grams/100liters, which coverts to 7lbs 6oz for a 15 gallon stock solution. I have an excel spreadsheet to do the conversions to any size stock solution volume.
According to Resh this yields PPMs Ca=140, N=98+42=140, K=118+51=169, P=40, Mg=30, S=40, Fe=3
By contract Dr. Lynette Morgan's Hydroponic Lettuce Production book has levels at Ca=151, N=140.9, K=96.4, P=25.2, Mg=25.3, Fe=2.5

So...I really don't rely on "luck". I am sure with my manual dosing I do vary both up and down from recommended PPM's. But, as a "hobby" I am perfectly comfortable with that.

@backyardhydro,
First of all, I didn't ever say nor mean to say you would rely on luck. What I was saying is that if things are fine and one is "lucky", there is a general tendency to not asking why.

In fact nobody was actually asking what formula you use, nor were they much interested in any other details. If on the other hand you would have made a post about having trouble, nutrient deficiencies and/or a number of other problems, I bet many people would have asked a bunch of questions. ;-)

Actually, I only wanted to give a good argument why the formula you use is indeed of (common) interest - In fact I wanted to talk you into giving it to us. LOL

I've put the first "Resh-formulation" (with Gram per 100 Liter) into my personal nutrient calculator and here is what I have got as a result:

N=131 ppm
P=41 ppm
K=164 ppm
Ca=107 ppm
Mg=31 ppm
S=40 ppm
F=3 ppm

And that's pretty close to what is widely used here around. The interesting part here is the proportion of K versus N, which is indeed the contrary what most people would expect. Look at Dr. Lynette Morgan's Hydroponic Lettuce formula for instance, it's just the contrary: the proportion of N is much higher compared to K. The formula in use in Northern Thailand is pretty close to Resh's formula as I said, except a few "minor" differences. I'd like to give theses as an input here:

1. For lettuce only 1 ppm of Fe seems to be sufficient (and is in fact saving money on a larger scale)
2. The proportions of P, Mg and obviously S are much lower, as in P=23, Mg=18 and finally S=23. In fact those are much closer to the formula of Dr. L. Morgan. Looks quite like a synthesis of both.

Finally, the Cu content is exceptionally high with the formula we use. Here are the specs in use for trace elements:

Fe=1
B=0.31
Mn=1.48
Zn=0.605
Cu=0.27
Mo=0.05

Thanks for sharing!

"In fact nobody was actually asking what formula you use, nor were they much interested in any other details."

If this is not typical of such an egotistical person, I would not have any clue what is. If the "Alpha Male' did not post it, it's simply not welcome on "his" forum.