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georgeiii_gw

The Dark Garden: Just Pictures

georgeiii
13 years ago

This is using the Non-Nutrient Hydroonics Method. Jack-o-Latern Pumpkin 5-9-10

Another angle


6-4-10

Still only one squirt every three days

Comments (103)

  • lucas_formulas
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I die laughing Georgiii, thanks chriscclay's Intel you're snared for good now. You in fact aren't the inventor at all, but simply copied the "hempy" technique from the M.J. growers and showed off with it here. Good-one and nice try indeed... LOL

    You don't need to answer to any of my question from now on, as I know where to get the whole dossier first hand! ;-)

    PS: thanks again chriscclay for the hint!

  • grizzman
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'd post pictures, but there isn't much to see now. the deer ravaged about 90% of my plants sunday and monday night.
    But that doesn't mean I'm not interested in testing what your doing.
    you asked, I responded. You can't do the same in kind?

  • homehydro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    chriscclay
    I never herd of the hempy bucket, so I cant say if it is a modified version or not. But the whole design is quite simple. Take a 3 or 5 gallon bucket (with lid), cut a hole just large enough to hold another smaller bucket (basket, pot, plastic container etc.). The smaller container needs to have holes in it but still be able to hold the growing medium in it. If the holes are too large you can line it with cheese cloth or a piece of furnace filter screen.

    Then plant the plant in the smaller bucket with the perlite growing medium. Place it in the hole of the lid you cut for the larger bucket. The water level in the larger bucket needs to be high enough so the roots can wick up the water from it to the plant. At first you will probably need it to be high enough so it just touches the growing medium, but then you can lower it as the roots grow. The bottom (large) bucket needs an pump and air stone (like for fish tanks) to add oxygen to the water, as well as to keep the water circulating to keep algae and other things from growing in it.

    Now, insteed of adding the nutrients to the water in the bottom (large) bucket making it the nutrient solution like a typical hydroponic system, georgeiii clams that he does not add any nutrients to the water at all. He adds his top secret "Squirts" directly to the perlite growing medium instead.

    The reason georgeiii doesn't answer any of the questions is simply that he cant. He can't explain why plant biology and the laws of physics don't apply in his system. And he wont give details of the top secret "Squirts" because then when people try the system and don't have good results he will have an excuse. He simply says that you cant compare, and try to send you on a wild goose chase for some non existent thread that is suppose to explain everything.

    The whole thing is like a late night infomercial. It may look good as they talk about on the TV, but after you pay the money and get it home, you begin to realize that it wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

  • georgeiii
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Now the good news is that another female flower just popped up on the Atlantic Giant right after the first. I can see a change since I put the added nitrogen (urine ) in the fertilizer. Their getting larger and stronger, thicker vines. Also the plant that had too much rain water, well after about a week the color came back in the leaves and stems. Now to a mistake I made. The one Jack O Lantern pumpkin vines I destroyed the root system by adding water too fast. Too much disturbance. My guess is from looking at the vines its a two week set back. Its still got time tho. If I lift the top itll look like a soupy mess in there from dead and dying roots. Ill look and figure if I want to dump it or just refill.
    I'm going to fabricate a bucket for growing corn. Oh, by the way I was curious so I looked up High Tech gardening pratices ton see what the Chinese might be looking to get from my ideas. Well let me tell you the Dutch got the best there is. Montering, weighing even telling you your next child's middle name. No really. But with that said i can see why such a system (costly, high learning curve,need for mass enviromental change, huge material investment, huge engery input. etc.,)wouldn't work for the millions of ural pheasent culture their facing. They need a system that they can put in place tomorrow. A system that can be put on sidewalks, school yards, abandon fields, ashalpt lots, old buildings, rail cars, roof tops and up and down walls. Each man can made hundreds because their common items in a industral culture. So yes I can see their interest.

  • chriscclay
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    you can research it geogeiii, just google hempy buckets

    I just call things how I see them. No hard feelings man we are here to help each other.

    I am very intrigued in your simple method of hydro. If you give more details on your system we could replicate your system. In turn help prefect it or see short comings that you don't see. we all could work together to make your system more efficient/productive. can you go into details how you make you inserts? It would be great if you could also give us some pics of the bottom of the inserts where the roots hang out.

    Have you thought to add a root stimulator (water soluble) to water pail to help increase root mass. That might help with the recovery of your Jack o Lantern. Or prevent future shock if this was to happen again.

    keep it green

  • homehydro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "It would be great if you could also give us some pics of the bottom of the inserts where the roots hang out."

    It does not really show the bottom of the inserts (although there is nothing special about them), if you scroll up in this thread a little above about half way to the set of pictures: Posted by georgeiii (My Page) on Tue, Jun 15, 10 at 1:51

    In one of the pictures you can see the roots hanging down in the water in larger bucket.

  • homehydro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    P.S.
    As for the inserts, they are nothing more than plastic containers like a butter (margarine) tub and lid that he made holes in the bottom for the roots and water uptake. Except they are see-through (they don't need to be see-through), probably the containers that they put the food in at deli department when you order some potato salad.

    He just cut a hole in the lid for the plant to stick up through. I cant tell from the pictures, but I would also cut a slit in the side of the lid so you can take it off without hurting the plants stem. The lid only helps keep in moisture and keep organic material as well as pests out of the growing medium. A light proof lid would block the light that allows all that algae growth on the growing medium.

  • georgeiii
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This really has my interest. I can see why people get hooked on growing pumpkins. The other thing that has me excited is....yup another pumpkin.

    The problem is do I want to keep the rule of no root inground and have cloning points which are really extra containers strung out along the vines. Last year I had two and got 5 really nice size pumpkins. Or, or just stick it in that mound of growing left over mix from last year. I mean the whole SWC. Would that be cheating? Ive been placing that mix there for awhile for some reason. In fact Im going to have to move all the pumpkins around to give them room.
    You know something funnier, a third flower just appeared. Three in a row. They seem to be forming out of a clump of flower buds. Now I begining to worry over pollination.

  • Dan
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nice pumpkin plants georgeiii. Seems your method is doing quite excellent.

    I was wondering though, how often are your plants subject to diseases using this method (No nutrients in bucket) and from what I've seen in the photos, it looks as if you're transplanting from the DWC into soil at a certain stage. Is that correct?

    As for homehydro, time for you to shut up and go away you annoying, loud-mouth, know-it-all twat. No one cares and no one's listening. Don't like what georgeiii's doing or how it's being done. To bad. Get over it and get a life.

    With that said, how's everyone doing? New here and so far it's a pleasure lol.

  • homehydro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "As for homehydro, time for you to shut up and go away you annoying, loud-mouth, know-it-all twat. No one cares and no one's listening. Don't like what georgeiii's doing or how it's being done. To bad. Get over it and get a life. "

    I don't choose to use bad language in a public forum, so I WONT reduce myself to that. ALL my points are not about liking or disliking what "georgeiii's doing, or even how it's being done." They are all about helping others to do the same if they wish. He can brag all he wants about how great everything is, but that doesn't help anyone to duplicate it. From the pictures anyone can duplicate the buckets and system, big deal.

    But he has never disclosed the top secret nutrient solution he uses for the "Squirts." He also has never explained how the plants in his system can absorb the nutrients they need at any pH no matter what it is (that's plant biology). He also has not been able to explain what happens to the nutrients the plants don't need (absorb), that will cause a buildup of them in the growing medium over time. That's where the squirts go and there is no actual flushing, and any diluting does not git rid of them, they'll remain there until the plants either absorb them, or they are really flushed form the growing medium (that's also plant biology). The salts don't evaporate (that's simply a law of physics), as he apparently claims how the excess salts/nutrients are flushed or diluted.

    He just wants to make clam's on how great his system is, but refuses to let anyone know how/why it works so great. Does that help anyone? Lets assume it works as great as he says it does, then he's not doing anything other than just patting himself on the back. But does it work as great as he says? He's the only one who really knows, and he refuses to give any real details. Just a few pictures of some small plants in buckets that anyone and his brother can build, and he claims great things. If that impresses you, I have some shiny string that will keep you occupied for weeks.

    If you think you have all the details you need to get good results, why don't you give it a try. Perhaps then you can forge the way and post those details for the others that might like to try it, AND GET GOOD RESULTS.

  • Dan
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You're right. I should never have said that and I'm truly sorry. All I can do is ask that you forgive me because that was cruel and not deserved.

    I do understand the frustration with this thread though and, like you, I'm here to learn and hopefully, be able to help. I'm not sure why the nutrients are so secret especially if the claim is they (and the system), can be used to basically stop world hunger by providing large yielding crops. At least that's the gest I'm getting from the whole Chinese thing because let's face it, if a billion Chinese can thrive on this particular system, then the whole world would be able to too.

    I'm guessing the 'secret' nutrients are nothing more then the Flora series with possibly a booster such as Hydrogen Peroxide for higher oxygenization. Also, the way the system is set up, the bucket will still have 'run off' nutrients from the cup. Just basics of gravity so even though there are only a few squirts every 2 - 3 days, there will still be nutrients draining into the water due to the run off allowing the roots to 'feed' until the next 'squirt'.

    I, myself, am interested in learning the exact methods or procedures utilized in this system so I can attempt to duplicate the results. I'm a Chef growing various fruits and veggies hydroponically indoors and need all the help I can get to keep crops large and healthy.

  • homehydro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    To cryotech,
    I fully except your apology, and I know that I am not perfect. I too just want to help people as well as learn all I can about the world of hydroponics also. I to agree that if the system is working so well, it should be shared (as he is claiming to do). I would understand if giving the details would jeopardize future financial gains for georgeiii. But because he has never actually said that I can't just assume that is the case. And he is so defensive about the information, and demanding that people just believe him. I simply have to wonder why, but in any case it's not helping anyone that I can see.

    Bottom line is that it needs to make sense to me before I just believe what someone tells me, that goes for anything, even the auto repair shop etc.. Any cop will tell you if the story doesn't make sense, or they seem to have something to hide, there is probably something wrong somewhere. That is all I'm more or less trying to say. I am not claiming that georgeiii system does not work, just that he has not been willing to share the details that would explain why, or so others can try it for themselves.

    P.S. No hard feelings.

  • homehydro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    P.S.
    "Also, the way the system is set up, the bucket will still have 'run off' nutrients from the cup. Just basics of gravity so even though there are only a few squirts every 2 - 3 days, there will still be nutrients draining into the water due to the run off allowing the roots to 'feed' until the next 'squirt'. "

    I also have considered this and agree, but never brought it up because it seemed a fruitless to even try. But without any testing on the water there is no way to tell how much (he will never disclose that info). Also there are claims of 4 month old water, does that mean the plants never drink up any of it? And he never adds any water. If water is added it cant be 4 month old water them, it would just mean that it has been 4 month sense he cleaned the bucket.

  • Dan
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    homehydro
    Thank you for accepting my apology and I look forward to any help you can provide in the future. Hydroponics is an ever-changing universe with new, innovated techniques, methods and experiences from which we all learn from.

    I agree, if what georgeiii is working on is indeed a financial cornerstone for him, I would never ask he comprise that either. If it isn't, simply stating he prefers to safe-guard the secret is cool too. It's more respectful than simply dodging questions and using cryptic answers to further prolong confusions. Just my two cents ;)

    I can't argue those plants look nice though. From the stand point of pumpkins anyways. I've never really had good luck growing them for some reason but then again, I've never tried them hydroponically. One thing this thread has done is seriously sparked an interest in me to try lol.

    "Also there are claims of 4 month old water, does that mean the plants never drink up any of it? And he never adds any water. If water is added it cant be 4 month old water them, it would just mean that it has been 4 month sense he cleaned the bucket."

    If the roots are submerged, and I have to think they are to keep from drying out causing the plant to die, there could be no possiblity the water lasted 4 months without either

    1)being drank
    2)evaporating

    to the extend it would need to be topped off. I don't see any fogger or mister in the bucket so those roots are submerged. Even if the water did last 4 months, I'd have to think it would be severly polluted with lethal PH levels. From what I can see in the photos the system is set outside which means dirt, bugs, algae, salt build-up, and who knows what else, would be floating around inside that bucket. Just from opening the lid to check the water and roots allows dirt and small bugs to enter so I find it extremely difficult to believe the water remains pure for 4 months. That water would be in serious need of being changed just by the first 1 month alone lol.

    I'd have to agree with the 4 month mark being the time he would clean the bucket. Again, this is just speculation because I know I'd never wait 4 months to clean the bucket just for the fact it's outside and too many contaminates are present. But that's just me. I'm more of a rather be safe than sorry kinda guy lol.

    As far as his secret sauce goes for nutrients. I now firmly believe it's Miracle-Gro. I have the same product and use it for my outside plants. It has that same light blue tint rather than the darker color HP solution mixture has when diluted. So yea, I'd definitely say it's Miracle-Gro.

  • homehydro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I can't argue those plants look nice though. From the stand point of pumpkins anyways."

    I do agree that the plants in the pictures seem to look good at this point, but they are far from mature plants, and I doubt they were started in those buckets as seeds. I simply can't tell anything about their care from the pictures. And just because you don't see any obvious problems today does not mean there wont be any problems a month from now. That's why I am not impressed with such new plants.

    "If the roots are submerged, and I have to think they are to keep from drying out causing the plant to die,"

    Yes but I don't think they are completely submerged. Just like in a NFT system only the bottom of the roots are submerged. This allows the root system not to be suffocated. The exposed roots allow the root system to get the much needed oxygen/air they need to be healthy. The roots above the water line get moisture form the submerged roots from a wicking action that brings up the moisture to the main root-ball (and possibility humidity). In any system I built the water level would be easily adjustable.

    "Even if the water did last 4 months, I'd have to think it would be severly polluted with lethal PH levels. From what I can see in the photos the system is set outside which means dirt, bugs, algae, salt build-up, and who knows what else, would be floating around inside that bucket. Just from opening the lid to check the water and roots allows dirt and small bugs to enter so I find it extremely difficult to believe the water remains pure for 4 months."

    From the pictures the bucket don't look to be light proof. Just translucent, that would for sure allow algae and other unwanted things to grow in them over the long time. If I were building it, I would build it so the water level in the buckets is adjustable, as well as recycling. The water would not go through the growing medium, but from the top of the buckets into the bottom, with an adjustable overflow. My buckets would also be light proof. Of coarse, like you I would clean the buckets out regularly also.

    Depending on how many buckets I had going, I would also probably set up a nutrient dispensing system. Like a drip system but closely timed to dispense just what I wanted. But probably not for less than 15-20 plants. I would also set up a flushing system, like a drip system (but just fresh water), although again not for a small number of plants. For a small number of plants I would probably just pour about 1/2 gallon of fresh pH adjusted water on the growing medium in each bucket every couple of weeks or so (just before the nuts were added). I would likely have the air stones in the main water bucket, instead of each individual one for simplicity. Also it would be continuously recirculating so there would be plenty of oxygen and water movement. The water would also bge easy to filter.

    As for georgeiii's secret sauce it does have a striking resemblance to Miracle-Gro, although not all hydroponic nutrients have the same color from my experience. The virti-grow nutrients have a light green tint, and the GH flora series have a light brown tint. I have also used straight Miracle-Gro in a hydroponic system to grow hydroponic plants. They did grow for months, but slowly you could tell they were not healthy. That is another reason that I am not impressed with the look of immature plants (hydro nuts or not). Getting them started is not most peoples goal, but growing them to maturity is (as well as mine).

    But I am not really that interested in the exact nutrients he uses because I would expect most any hydroponic nutrients would work good if they were formulated for the right plants. Although it would be nice to know because then people could do some comparisons. I would be more interested in the concentration of the solution. Is it 1/2 strength, full strength, double-triple-quadruple strength, or even more.

    In order to know, I would need to set up identical setups and test all the different possibility's, check results and try to refine it from there. Well that's just not something that I'm willing to do just because someone clams that it works perfect, and simply wont give any details on why it does and/or how he does it. I've got too many other projects in mind that I don't have money for, that I DO want to do.

    All and all, there are many issues that I would address before building such a system. Especially just on someone that I don't even knows say so, as well as when they refuse to give details for no apparent reason. Bottom line is that things may not always be as they seem, and just trusting what someone expects you to believe can get you into trouble or cost you a lot of time and/or money. Ask questions first and believe later (when it makes sense). But I wish anyone who wants to give it a try luck, and hopefully they will be willing to share the details.


  • grizzman
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Georgeiii has stated on other threads he 'squirt' is whatever he can pull off the shelf (i.e. Miracle grow, Peters, et al)
    He never says how concentrated it is however which is something I'm curious about.
    Also, regarding the whole 'old water' issue, he has noted at least twice on this thread he's changed the water because too much rain water got into his system and he can get better micro-nutrients from his tap water. I'm not suggesting he didn't say it, I just don't recall his comments on the issue. By the way, a small plant could easily live on the same water for four months if there were inadequate nutrient or light to promote proper growth or if the reservoir, in relation to the plant, was very large. (a basil plant in an 80L reservoir would easily still be feeding in four months)
    Georgeiii also stated earlier on this thread(I believe) that he just addeed enough fertilizer to get the perlite wet. That would explain why he's not seeing algae growth in his water rez. Algae needs something to eat in order to grow. Since he changes the water rez after a rain, he's not going to ever have any nutrient in his rez.
    Anywho, I'm not trying to spew accolades for his technique nor am I trying to invalidate it. Just responding to a few of hydro's and crypto's comments with what I've gleaned from reading many of georgeiii's posts (and arguing plenty with him too)

  • georgeiii
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you remember the issue was the lack of Nitrogen getting to the plant because of being diluted by rain water. There is no system per say just buckets. A bucket got to much rain water. Just two of them. I emptied some of the water out replaced it, and just 10 days later you see the change. This is simply cause and effect. Same goes with alge. Alge are the birds of the plant world and what do birds tell us. I mean besides that their spores fly on and fly off what good is alge on the surface of your mix. It has a very good one in my system. But guys I have other things to write about. The Garden is taking it's summer shape.

  • homehydro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I do recall somewhere that georgeiii said he uses hot water that he lets cool down, because it has more elements in it from the hot water heater. Where someone asked what other elements other than copper is there to witch I don't recall any reply. And I don't recall the comments about too much rain water, but my comment about the 4 month old water is based directly on this comment by georgeiii;

    "This is a picture looking thru a foot of water. That water had been in there 4 months. I don't know about ya'll but I'm happy. "

    That statement was just underneath an image of water in a bucket, near the top of the thread. And it is true that algae needs something to eat in order to grow, although I am not convinced that none of the nutrients ever leach their way down into the water buckets. From the picture of what he claims to be the 4 month old water it certainly looks like something's growing in it, even on the air stone. I don't know how often it rains in his area, but if he changes the water after every rain because of the water flushing the nutrients down into the buckets. That would flush away the nutrient buildup also, witch is something he claims is not necessary.

  • georgeiii
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There are times you just got to smile about. See someone, a cat, dog doesn't natter pulled out an air line. It fed a Squad of 2 Hydro-Buckets & 3 Hydro-Pails. I only noticed because the plants weren't growing fast enough. So I popped the cap. Alge everywhere. I didn't stop my schudled feedng times. So when the air stopped the upper root system died and the fertilizer weeped thru. It's such a vivid demonstration of the transition between between Hydroponics and Non- Hydroponics. And I got pictures. A few days ago I wrote a page from my childhood that demonstrates how I found out what "MEAT" was. That the simplest thing blowing water thru a tube to us walking around a mall are all part of that life. Well anyway I reattached the hose so in about a month I should see a difference. It' nice to have the pictures t go with'em. The other thing is I forgot that Nitrogen and flowers don't get along. So all the flowers on that Atlantic Giant died off. There were 5 altogether, I could see them die all the way into the little rosette of buds. So the limitations of the container puts me right back against the 22 foot rule or the 200 leaf rule. Well have to go, things to do people to see.

  • homehydro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "a cat, dog doesn't natter pulled out an air line. It fed a Squad of 2 Hydro-Buckets & 3 Hydro-Pails. I only noticed because the plants weren't growing fast enough. So I popped the cap. Alge everywhere. I didn't stop my schudled feedng times. So when the air stopped the upper root system died and the fertilizer weeped thru. It's such a vivid demonstration of the transition between between Hydroponics and Non- Hydroponics."

    That's interesting although I don't see it as a difference between Hydroponics and Non- Hydroponics. Algae cant get a foothold in moving water, the air stone keeps the water moving, thus the algae at bay. So when the air stone stooped, the movement of the water stooped also, thus all the algae growth. The fertilizer weeped thru just as it always did, just now you see the effects because the water movement stooped. Also algae cant grow in darkness, so it tells me the buckets are not light proof.

  • georgeiii
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ever read something that makes you think a person is from another world. You try so hard to sound smart but it just makes you make stupid remarks.

    That's interesting although I don't see it as a difference between Hydroponics and Non- Hydroponics.

    How many times have you come on here to say you don't understand and then get bitc*hy about it.

    Algae cant get a foothold in moving water, the air stone keeps the water moving, thus the algae at bay.

    What you don't live by a river or stream??? If you didn't use black tubeing on your system alge would show you how much it hates to move. You want to EARN someone resect than stop saying stupid things.

    The fertilizer weeped thru just as it always did, just now you see the effects because the water movement stooped.

    What you see is the difference between Hydroponic systems. See the Alge is nearly 3/4 gone in just a few days with no water change. Let me tell you again. No water change. How about you? What would you have to do if Alge took over your system. And last but not the least is the next turn of teabagging.

    Also algae cant grow in darkness, so it tells me the buckets are not light proof.

    No what it should tell you is that I can grow plants of varying types, of fibers, vegetables, medical, in clear buckets on a sunny day with no alge build up. Not to mention the Garden can be on multibule levels growing all different types in the same system. Did I mention no ph worries. Yes I did several times and you don't understand. Haahhaa oh my soul to have to read about you knowing all the rules of biology, physics, botony. Well, I know the rules of Chaos, yes there's rules to bring about the mixing of Orders.
    The toxicity level of the three main root types air, water and medium are directly proprotional to their reproductive capacity and inversely porportion to their degree of differenation. See that's the secert sauce you keep talking about and you didn't even have to go look. But then again it's been mention in numerous thread before this one. Look I came on because your giving such bad advise and I don't want you to chase people away just cause your loud ;-'

  • homehydro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "How many times have you come on here to say you don't understand and then get bitc*hy about it."

    Oh, you haven't seen bitc*hy. I refrain much, because this is a public forum. It's not that I don't understand hydroponics (not that I know everything), it's simply that you make claims but cant explain them. Then you just get demanding and expect me/others to just believe you simply because you say so. Even if your system works as perfect as you claim, you are not here to help anyone with it. Your just here to pat yourself on the back.

    "What you don't live by a river or stream??? If you didn't use black tubeing on your system alge would show you how much it hates to move."

    How funny is that, I don't know if you were trying to be ironic or not but that's funny. As for a river or stream. There are factors involved like the speed of the water flow, how much light is getting in and the amount of available food source. There will be algae growth all around the edges where there is moisture and not much water movement. And NO it does not need to be perfectly still to grow algae. Although, stagnant water will grow much more algae than any moving water will be able to in the same conditions. Even in the fastest flowing streams, there are places where the water movement is minimal. Go camping or fishing sometime.

    As for the use of black tubing, the water in the tubing is not running through it 24/7. When the water stops flowing there is still moisture and humidity in the tubing. That's when the algae builds up, and it does not just wash away when the water flows over it again, it just gets er-moistened, then continues to grow.

    "You want to EARN someone resect than stop saying stupid things."

    No, I'm not interested in earning someones respect, especially from people that I don't even know. The respect of my friends and family is what's important to me in that department. And I can say the same to you about saying stupid things. Although it's not my style to be so vain as to think I'm the only one who knows anything.

    "See the Alge is nearly 3/4 gone in just a few days with no water change. Let me tell you again. No water change."

    This would be interesting if it were true. I am not saying it isn't, but with your track record of just demanding people believe you for no reason other than you said so. I doubt it. Even if you posted pictures I would just believe that they were pictures of other water, or cleaned in-between pictures because of the way you are.

    "No what it should tell you is that I can grow plants of varying types, of fibers, vegetables, medical, in clear buckets on a sunny day with no alge build up."

    I can too with air stones in the water.

    " Did I mention no ph worries. Yes I did several times and you don't understand. Haahhaa oh my soul to have to read about you knowing all the rules of biology, physics, botony."

    Yes you mentioned it many times, but never explained it once. If you think you can re-wright all the rules of biology, physics and botany, then give it a try, and good luck to you. But just because you write it doesn't make it true. Heck, I can write my own book, then I guess everything I said would be true also right?

    "Well, I know the rules of Chaos, yes there's rules to bring about the mixing of Orders. "

    Well your the only one who knows them, you simply don't want to share.

    "But then again it's been mention in numerous thread before this one."

    Except those threads only exist in your world.

    "Look I came on because your giving such bad advise and I don't want you to chase people away just cause your loud"

    That's really a good laugh. I don't make claims that don't make sense, and then refuse to explain them. Your just mad because you don't have any answers for any of the REAL questions, and anyone who doesn't just believe you, you call loud. The bad advice is all the claims you make without being able to explain them. You just give riddles and skirt the questions. That's bad advice!

  • lucas_formulas
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Two fools go out for a couple of beers. When they get to a cosy and not too crowded place, they sit down side by side. At the other end of the room, there is a huge mirror. One of the fools while looking around, eventually spots both of them in the mirror and bursts out: "Hey Dude, look over there, don't we know those guys from somewhere, - don't they look familiar to you too?! Yup, says the other, gets up, grabs his buddy and says: "let's go over there and say hi!" - The other gets up as well but then stops: "Wait a sec. - stay put! They were somewhat quicker on the uptake and are already coming over to us!

  • homehydro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lucas_formulas
    I take it that that was suppose to be a dig of sum sort, but it's just another long winded way of saying you are great, and other people are not. That is just the arrogant hypocritical behavior that I was referring to (and that you will never understand). Are You the fool that said "don't we know those guys from somewhere" or were You the fool that said "stay put! They were somewhat quicker on the uptake and are already coming over to us!"

    I don't claim to know everything, but that doesn't mean that I don't know anything either. And like it or not I do have a right to speak, just like anyone else (even you). If you want to trade insults I'm perfectly willing to take that on. You can call me/others every name in the book, but that wont help you become a real person. I am personally willing to deal with that type of attitude. Simply because I don't believe it's right, and I wont let bully's tell me what to do. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm willing to defend myself.

  • urbangardenfarmer
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That's a good one lucas! Seriously guys, why keep entertaining the troll with his squirt here squirt there? The only thing he's acomplishing is setting a guiness record for the slowest plant growth ever!

  • lucas_formulas
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    All I was doing is telling a joke to break up the gray. And all I was saying is that the world is full of fools but that the biggest fools are those who think and act if they were smart. Even if they end up looking like Tiger Woods and Seve Ballesteros without the golfing skills.

    In fact everyone is a fool of one kind. To realise everyone is - and eventually (most importantly) what kind one self is, that's a big step towards recovery and improvement I believe. Then again, some people would never ever want to know what kind of fool they actually are and going on and on with the same strategy of self-denial and trying to looking smart, no matter how far off track they were. Which often consists in projecting any suspicious thingsinthemselves they are about to discover, into others as soon as they would be revealed. That's the top shelf fools, indeed! LOL

  • homehydro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lucas_formulas
    Telling a joke at another persons expense is not a joke to me. If that is your goal, then make sure the person whose expense you are exploiting never hears it at least. Unless you are wanting them to feel bad (as I'm sure was your goal). As for "the biggest fools are those who think and act if they were smart" I cant think of anyone who try's to make themselves seem smart than you do. That's about as ironic as it gets.

    I have never claimed to know everything (do I need a disclaimer with every statement?). But that doesn't mean I'm stupid either. If I were, I would just believe what anyone tells me without question (as some people want), and just fallow along like sheep. Where I come from there are no stupid questions if you don't already know the answers, even if you do know the answer there is nothing wrong with confirming it. And nobody can make me feel stupid for asking questions. In fact, the only thing that would make me feel stupid is just believing without asking questions and getting satisfactory answers. That would be stupid. Too many people just sit on the sidelines and let bully's make their decisions for them. Or they simply don't ask questions because they are just to afraid of what others might think, and are just afraid to stand up for themselves. So they sit in back of the class and never learn anything.

    urbangardenfarmer
    To me it's just a discussion, and I didn't make the claims. From what I've herd and seen so far about his so called system, I would agree there is nothing great about it. Although I disagree with the theory that just not saying anything would not be entertaining it. The way I see it, that would just tell him that I/others just believe everything without question (and I don't). When one makes claims, they should expect questions. How many people need to waist there time and money trying the so called system just because they are afraid to ask questions. I'm fine taking the heat for asking the questions. Then if they think it's worth their time and money, at least there's more than just one side of the story to consider.

  • lucas_formulas
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I guess 90% (just to put it into a figure - as I guess it's higher) of all jokes go to the expense of some sort of people, gender, groups, religions, occupations or even minorities. The later have actually become less and less politically correct for a good reason, - indeed.

    But the joke I was telling in celebration of the "great progress" of this thread, is quite particular as it is in fact about mere ABSURDITY, - not actually about someone in particular, some group or any minority or selective individuals. Well, unless someone takes the bait, is indeed acting (reacting) even more absurdly, actually identifies with it and even feels hurt by the truth in it LOL! In other words, I am merely throwing a funny and absurdly looking hat into the room. Whom ever pics it up and to whom ever it fits, may just keep it on and win the day ;-)

  • homehydro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lucas_formulas
    I don't think this thread has made any progress either, that's not in question. But there is no doubt in my mind that you specifically meant to insult (no mater who it is you meant to insult), but I have no doubt you meant to through the hat on my head. That's why I asked witch one you were, like you thought you were smarter than anyone else. I'm not hurt (never from you), but I can recognize an insult when I here it (like most people).

    But if you are trying to say you meant no disrespect to anyone, I will accept that for now (even though I cant say I truly believe it). But that wont stop me from asking questions.

    I don't believe this thread will ever make any progress. I can't answer the claims for georgeiii. After all, it's his system, not mine. Nor do I make the claims on how great it works (I don't even care if it does). But I'm not going to be afraid to ask questions, or make comments when things don't seem right.

    P.S. When I look in the mirror across the room (like in your joke), I can respect myself for that, I don't care if anyone else does or not (that's there problem).

  • ethnobotany
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think this discussion has gotten off topic. Maybe we should start our own threads which have useful information regarding the hobby we all enjoy, hydroponics. It seems to me like Georgeiii is going to do his own thing no matter what any of us say and that is his inherent right as a human being. Trying to be as neutral and benevolent as possible, I say we should go back to the community that brought me here, whos goal was bringing the fun into hydroponics. To help others with their issues and give knowledge to those willing to learn but also showing others our projects of grandeur will resonate our members with the innate feeling of accomplishment and make our time here feel much more worthwhile than will bickering and trying to out smart one another. Like say, not trying to be a radical here. Just trying to bring up some insight.

    -ethnobotany

  • Dan
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    @Lucas_formulas:
    "I am merely throwing a funny and absurdly looking hat into the room."

    Hey! How dare you! Leave my hat alone! After 150 boxes of Cracker Jacks and $20 (for shipping), I'm the proud owner of that multi-colored beany with the whirly top and I don't appreciate it being thrown around after what all I had to go through to get it! (*picking up beany..."My preeecioous. He's meanseses he iss. GOOOLEM GOOOLEM.")

  • georgeiii
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Boy I'm fighting a running battle with insects. Weevil and beatles. I've lost two vines from the Hydro-Buckets. I spray the beatles and crush the weevils. But still lost two vines.
    Also a problem with the Atlantic Giant. Didn't put in an overflow hole. The yellowing leaves were kind of a hint. Sorted that out. Also added a clone point to the main vine and have another two trays ready for the secondary vines. I'll let the main vine grow another ten feet before adding another to that vine.
    Also I started the Corn Pumps. 20 in the Pumps and 24 in Nanny Pods. Those will be the Ruby Red Sweet Corn. The next set will be the Silver Queen. I have enough material for another 20 Corn Pumps and 24 Nanny Pods as well. Season is starting to change best get in what you can. Another 20 SWC's and I should be done.

  • georgeiii
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm sad to say I lost all my pumpkins to insects this year. It did't matter where in the garden they were or even going out morning noon or night. I dug into the flesh of the vines myself and crushed the maggots but still. I live right in the nexus of wind corridor with buildings to funnel hill to rise up and high enough to see the sun set over the city. I have some Marigold plants growing for seed for NEXT YEAR but that garden ego, (it won't happen to me syndrome)Okay it did. Now what? I did clone the two vines from the Alantic Giant but even that's under attack. I've torn 16 leaves of just one vine till I'm concern about the plants growth. But that medium. With the Hydro-Buckets I just took the insert out and planted Crimsum Sweet watermellons seeds in them. Since there's no nutrients save micro ones in the water. A few days later I added Charleston grey seeds to another replacement and it sprouted three days ago. Loss and failure but I still have time. The Corn Pumps are doing good too just want to increase their nitrogin some tho. It's still a bummer about pumpkins.

  • grizzman
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry to hear about your pumpkins. I always have problems with squash borer bugs when I grown pumpkins. And squash bugs, though they do a lot less damage and are more easily controlled.
    you could plant another round of pumpkins (for making thanksgiving pies)

  • georgeiii
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well all the pumpkins in the Hydro-Buckets died off. I pulled the inserts and started watermelons.

    I didn't have to change water just placed a seeds in other inserts and this is what the new root system looks like. They even got little watermellons growing.

    The other things are the Corn Pumps. 4 stalks of Ruby Red sweet corn per bucket. After 30 days the plants used half the bucket. 2 1/2 gallon, that less than a gallon of water a month per plant.

  • georgeiii
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

  • grizzman
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Georgeii wrote "try that inground."
    Really? On a Hydroponics Forum. really? you must be posting that image to multiple forums.
    Anyway, your corn looks nice. It's good you're starting to provide realistic water volumes now.
    thanks for the update.

  • georgeiii
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Grizz your starting to sound like homie. (only less words) Weren't you and others talking about dirt as a medium in that river sand thread? Nothing changed over the last couple of years. It's still only a half cup of water a day. So why do you except it now but didn't then as realistic? Just curious. The biggest improvement with the Corn Pumps in comparision is the temps so far don't matter it seems. Temps above 90 don't increase water needs. I won't hold myself to that because I have to find a better way to measure water loss daily. I'll have to wait till next years growing season. I guess I can always mark the inside of the bucket?

  • grizzman
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes there is a discussion on dirt, though it has nothing to do with growing in the ground. I assume you didn't read the whole thing, Not that I blame you.(It's a long thread) but the gist is; if dirt is used as a medium is it still hydroponics.

    What's changed? Nothing I don't suppose. You're actually providing reasonable feedback is all. I seem to recall you stating previously something like 2 gallons of water over 4 months. Now its a half cup per day per plant. that seems more realistic. You just commented you're going to actually measure water consumption. That's a step in the right direction. I hope you'll share your data with us.

    As I've stated before, I have no problem with your system in all its uniqueness. I just want to see some data about how you're treating them. And better information to recreate said system would be nice, though at this point I believe I've got it figured out.

  • georgeiii
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    grizz it was always just a bucket, a lid with a hole, oh and a cup. there was nothing hard to figure there. Just had to open the mind a little to a different way of doing things. No complicated formulas, ph problems or concentration readings. If as you say you got it figured why do you need more data from me. Create your own. All I ask is that you call it what I named it.

  • grizzman
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I said I figured out how you built it and how you say it works. (I'm not saying you're wrong, I just haven't taken the time to verify what you said) That took quite a while and occurred across several threads as you're prone to not directly answer peoples questions (or weren't previously)
    As for data; it's your invention. I believe you should be the one who provides the data to way lay the naysayers. you post like this is the next great thing in hydroponics(maybe it is, maybe its not. I can't say) and then when people are skeptical about it you have traditionally poo pooed it away as them being stuck in the old. I was simply saying the fact that you are subjecting it to measurable testing is a good thing and the data you derive from said testing will go a long way to allaying the arguments of the skeptics. That's a good thing, in case you missed it.

  • georgeiii
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well this is going nowhere. Change of subject the pumpkins have sprouted. A little late in the season but I like to watch things grow. Of course their calling for a mild winter so maybe I'll get lucky. One of the clones from the Atlantic Giant is still alive. Not doing anything but still alive in it's cloning tray. Later today I'm going hunting for neiboring insect vecters. the one thing I don't want to do is spray. The amount of insects are questionable to me. There's only two other gardeners in the area. Of course this is a natural wind tunnel so everything gets blown this way. I'm really planning to go into larger production next year. I have a concrete pit that's 25' x 25'. I'm going to raise wheat. That's a tickle. And I think a camera or two wouldn't be bad either. Oh by the way Red wheat grain isn't a local here so I'm looking for some. Soybean too. If someone wants to trade. What I thought was soybean turned out to be Fava bean.

  • homehydro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bottom line, one of three things are happening with this thread. Either georgeiii just does not want to give real info because he is protecting it for copyright reasons, or it's nothing special once the real detail's are known, or he is just looking for attention. Anyway you look at it, I agree with georgeiii "Well this is going nowhere." This thread hasn't gone anywhere from the start, and simply wont in the future. I personally am not going to beg for detail's, if they are not given in good faith, they are useless. Also I have had the system figured out from the start (except your nutrient mixture, but I can always make my own). There is nothing special about the system, and it can easily be improved.

    P.S. When and if (big if) I ever decide to duplicate it, just like you I will call it what I want, even if it's deceiving and inaccurate. I don't care what you (georgeiii) ask. Good luck sewing anyone over it.

  • georgeiii
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You know I read this about four thirty and could stop laughing till about six really. This is going to entertain me all day. Really lets think about this a second. How many things have you brought to the table to reduce your dependence on oil based fertilizers in the last five years? While you start thinking about whether you should start thinking about it. Let me tell you from my side. 8. Thats right. Eight different containers with explanations, pictures the usual things people take for directions . This is peoples favorite one.
    {{gwi:53254}}

    Heres another.

    Gatta a laugh when I think about what you can grow with this on a shelf. I even show people how to build the shelving unit out of PVC pipe and press board. Even the kind of lighting they should use. Wait, wait, how many forums are you on. Do we have to wait again while you think about that too. On my side lets see. Container Gardening, Hot Topics, Access Gardening, Vertical Gardening a few others not mentioning. But one I do want to mention is Garden writing. Theres even tragedy in my life. Ive lost the woman I love. Homie youre a failed blogger. Yes. Homie in order to talk about life you have to had had a life. All of its ups and downs all arounds. Thats how you can figure methods that people arent restricted to old ways of Hydroponics they can no longer afford. And make it look good while your doing it too. And, so many ands. Ive already emailed all of the last five years of all I know to Haiti and the United Nations so I wont be feeling the urge to "sew " anybody soon. My vision is to creation of a Cadre of Gentleperson farmers for the Urban environment. Farmers who grow on concrete, asphalt, rocky ground, sidewalks, roof tops, school yard, railroad tracks, contaminate ground, down streets, back yards and up walls. My vision is to provide a school of thought that would allow people to grow their own food, fiber and bio-fuel needs in an urban setting using the recycled products that we commonly use for storage and recycle. Even my motives you wont understand because you think in terms of teabaggers "sweing" people over a hole in a bucket. See it makes me start smiling again. Homie Im looking for Regina and if I have to become famous to find you woman so be it. All the rest is just trinkets compared to growing old with you. So Homie really if you want to push the old oil based ways I wont try and stop you really. Its a free and open forum where information is freely given whether its understood or not without people who think of "sweing " people over their survival. Like I said this is going to tickle me all day.

  • grizzman
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Georgeiii,
    How is hydroponics petroleum based? At least any more so than the numerous petroleum based products I see scattered about your photos? This is a serious question. I don't think nutrients are derived from a petroleum source, though I suspect some petroleum is consumed in their manufacture. But the same can be said for most things.
    Also, If you want to shoot me a private email with an address, I'll send you some soybeans.

  • homehydro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    georgeiii
    Glad you are smiling, you don't strike me as a person that has had a laugh in years, so I am glad to have helped put you in a good mood. I personally have never sewed anyone ever, nor have I ever wanted to. But you strike me as one who wouldn't hesitate to. After all you were the one making demands, this was your statement, not mine.

    "Create your own. All I ask is that you call it what I named it."

    Or what?

    There is nothing wrong with trying to reduce the reliance on petroleum products. But recycled does not mean petroleum free, neither in the product nor the re-manufacturing of it. And there is no petroleum in the nutrients I use, but like grizzman said, I'm sure there was some used in the manufacturing of the raw elements. As far as I know, there is no plastic products on the planet that petroleum was not used in it's manufacturing. I don't clam to be a fanatic about environmental issues, although I do use recycled products when I can.

    We recycle everything we can, I even have a drawer full of old battery's waiting to get recycled, along with 2 old non working computers, and one monitor in the garage waiting to be recycled. When it comes to anything usable that we don't want anymore, we don't just throw it in the trash to go to the land fill. We will take the senior center, or salvation army for them to re-sell. Also the humane society has it's own thrift store that they use the proceeds to help the unfortunate animals with, we have donated plenty of stuff there also. We even buy stuff from these places. When the TV in my room went out (by the way that's in the garage waiting to get recycled also) I bought a used one from the senior center for $10. We've also bought plenty of clothes and other stuff from all of them. Our dining room table was bought at another one I didn't even mention (the Hospice).

    Again I don't clam that I do everything possible to help the environment, but I think it's quite lame of you to just assume that nobody does anything unless they tell you all about it so you can judge them on it.

  • homehydro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    As for lost loves,
    don't think you are the only one that has gone through it either. Although it does help explain why you are so bitter. Most of us have gone through that at least once. As for me her name was Carole, it was about 15 years ago and I still wonder how she's doing. Her parents were a part of a religious cult and had brainwashed her from the time she was born. It was because of her parents that we are not together. Anytime anything went wrong no mater how simple it would be, even just stubbing your tow, her parents had her convinced that it was because god disproves of me not being part of the cult.

    I couldn't stand to see her being torn apart anymore, and I knew her parents had so much control of her mind, that I needed to step aside for her sake. That hurt for many years, and I still wonder how she's doing, and if she was ever able to get out of that situation. To this day I have not found anyone to replace her. So don't think your brand of suffering is any worse than anyone else's. It's good to have something to take your mind off of it, especially if it's productive. We have all had a life, but most of us have learned how to move on. Good luck with that.

  • howelbama
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Why do these forums always go off on such tangents? I think your system is pretty neat, and experimenting is one of the greatest attributes of humanity. Let's keep the bantering and bickering out of these forums and stay on topic, we'll all learn a lot more from each other that way.

    Good luck with everything georgeiii and have fun with what you're doing.

  • homehydro
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hello howelbama,
    You need to read the entire thread from the very beginning to understand what all the bickering was about. It had nothing to do with trying something new, or how someone else wanted to grow their stuff. It was about all the misleading terms and descriptions used to describe it. And even though he would clam to want to help people, when asked questions about his system there was nothing but secrecy, and a go figure it out yourself attitude, (that's why the misleading terms and descriptions were so useless).

    Bottom line, he wasn't trying to help people or just share, he just wanted to use misleading terms and descriptions so people would think he he was a genius for finding a new way to grow plants (just so he could pat himself on the back). All the secrecy was to keep people from finding out there really wasn't anything new at all. The more he denied it, the deeper in a hole he got. He even would try to draw attention away from the points with personal insults, and unrelated rants. But it just didn't work, so the nastier he got (like an animal trapped in a corner), and that's what all the bickering was about.

    All he had to do was tell the truth, and I would have been happy to pat him on the back for growing anything myself. But lie and be deceitful, and that just wont happen. I even gave him many opportunities to say the secrecy was because of legal issues (pending patents etc..). I suggested it myself to give him an out, but no he still wanted to say he was trying to be helpful. Yet there wasn't anything helpful about his reply's.

  • howelbama
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I hear you, just seems like it happens a lot on these and other forums. Seems like things always turn into a pissing contest, rather than an information exchange. I see your point though he was quite elusive about his methods.

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