I've been in "cheap" hydro's for six years now. Here in Africa selection is very limited, but you can always buy buckets, gutters, pipes and fittings. It's the nutrients that are the problem, even though some nurseries sell them (at a price!).
I've dissolved wood ash and bone meal in nitric acid, which needed some epsom salt and potassium sulphate as a supplement. I've used urine, dolomite, bone meal and battery acid. Right now I dissolve sea shells, dolomite and bone meal in nitric acid adding some potassium sulphate for a supplement.
All these systems work, except . . there is always one or two ingredients that need to be purchased. Not good enough!

Now I'm interested in one of the latest developments in Africa, ie: the"Keyhole Garden" . In here you can deposit weeds, crushed bones, cow dung or human waste (like diluted urine). It looks very promising.

Hi greystoke, thank you for the link to the keyhole garden. I will pass it along as it is a very useful design for growing in a rual environment as well as an exciting project for school age children to learn some growing concepts. Congradulations to all involved. Your nutrient manufacturing information may be very valuable to many growers if current economic and energy trends continue for an extended period of time. chuck

Here is a link that might be useful: more hydroponic ideas

Excellent post, Chuck. That's the direction I want to go after I learn the ins and outs. Thanks. I really enjoyed reading it.

All of u guys need to realize something. Since we are all here and talking about h.p. Jump ahead of the curve guys. You see the news and the ever climbing fuel prices. Do what Im doin start your own produce stand and work it from the ground up. Anyone that know a decent bit about hydroponics knows exactly how cheap you can grow stuff. How many people out there do you know actually wanna put fourth the effort into growing there own produce. What if it doesn't work you say? Trust me there are 6 billiion plus people on this planet and not one of them is going to ever stop need food. You can make money hand over fist growing a whole array of fruits and veggies. Understand the science do the numbers and realize how big you market can be and who your potential customers are locally. You have the makings for a very lucrative HOME BASED business makin some nice money.

Hi oakleaf33, sounds like you have a plan there. I wish I had the room to do something like that. I live in a retirement park where they are already frowning at my 22 growers. While I live in a gated community, the area around here in Bradenton is chuck full of poor and homeless folks who would not hesitate to help themselves to whatever they wanted. I would end up having to shoot them, and that's no joke brother. So if anything, lots of us will have to kind of keep our stash of home-grown food out of the sight of the general public. We got guys here with their pants down walking around with one hand holding up their pants, and the other hand on their gun. Along with that, we got guys who have lots of tattoos and no hair on their heads walking around with a challange in their eyes. We used to call it walking around with a chip on your shoulder years ago. Then, we got the guys with the bull testicles hanging below their rear bumpers, and also the ones with the rebel flags in their back windows of their pickups. No, I'm not going to be out standing around the streets with food and a cash box here any time soon. But, it may work where you live. I have thought about making and selling a grower I designed though. Anyone can make it for around $5 bucks, and it works just fine. Sorry if I sound negitive, but I've been a ham radio operator for almost 50 years, and I know how to program trunked scanners. I listen to all the police calls in my area, so I know what's going down here in Bradenton Fl. On the positive side, I have a boat, and I can get out there on the shallow flats and catch some fish from time to time. Good luck with the produce stand. chuck

Here is a link that might be useful: more growing ideas

Sorry to hear that things are so bad where you live man. From what I gather from florida that place should not even be considered a state of union. More like and annexation of cuba ..am i right. Sounds like you need to move somewhere else while you still can. Im only 26 and Im trying to get things started goin my way for once. Produce is gonna be a booming business in years to come it's a shame you don't have any land to really "grow" you talent. Im really really into hydroponics especially AEROponincs all the same principles apply though food water and light. Hey if all else fails sellem some fish man..LOL

oakleaf, well I'm afraid it's getting that way most places these days if you open your eyes and look for it. However, I do have a lot zoned for duplex construction in Ft Myers Fl that I am trying to trade for some rual agriculture zoned land. My lot is worth around 20 grand according to the tax man. I just want to swap it for some place where I can park my old motor home and start building a cabin. It might take a while, but someone will find my swap ad on craigs list someday, and then I'll get with the program. chuck. PS check out this link. It is the garden layout greystoke was talking about. I like it.

http://www.sendacow.org.uk/schools.asp?active_page_id=272

Here is a link that might be useful: unique style garden from africa

I checked out that sight. Im not really sure I understand about the whole concept of the garden. What is the signifigance of the way it is designe like a keyhole. Does it make it just smaller and easier to maintain. At first glance I thought It went underground or somethin

Hi oakleaf, well, just think of the center box as a big ol plant food generator moma, and the surounding garden are like nursing off the compost box in the center. Kind of crude, but that is the basic idea. More spicificly, the outer rim is only 2 foot high while the center area surounding the compost generator is 3 to 4 foot high. As you know i'm sure, s##t rolls down hill, and the same for the nutrients produced by the centeral compost box. You just dump your biodegradable refuse in it and nature turns it all into plant candy. If I get a lot where I can set up a bunch of gardens, this is the type of garden I will build all around the perimiter of my land. Did you select the link on the page that showed pictures of the one they made in Africa. I know that there were several different links there. Well, of course, this isn't a hydroponic garden at all, but it sure is an easy and efficient garden because you throw all your scraps into it like bones, dog poop, grass and plant cuttings, manure from the animals, egg shells, and bones. Dont forget to put some ashes in as well, and presto, excelent plant nutrients flowing down hill to all the lovely plants. Well, perhaps a bit dramatic, but that's basicly what I got out of it, chuck. PS, I just got my VA loan qualification letter in the mail today, and there might be a nice little country place I can get for about 160 bucks a month with a nice back yard. Fingers are crossed.

Chuck wrote:
While I live in a gated community, the area around here in Bradenton is chuck full of poor and homeless folks who would not hesitate to help themselves to whatever they wanted. I would end up having to shoot them, and that's no joke brother.

Its very much the same thing here chuck. Our ¼ acre property is behind a 6ft wall armed with spikes. All our windows and doors have burglar bars. We have an "armed response" alarm system, and we keep three dogs. And . . if it wasnÂt for those precautions, we wouldnÂt get any insurance, besides of which we would have been robbed blind.

The trouble with these poor & homeless folk is that they themselves cannot grow food for the very same reason. In fact people get killed for having/hiding food.

Anyway,
That "keyhole garden" has given me an idea. I donÂt really want to give up hydro, so I thought that if I can get the nutrient leach from the compost in the centre of the keyhole garden to collect in a storage bin and somehow control its chemical make-up, then I have a truly "organic" hydro nutrient.

What do you think?

Chuck
how about a link to that 25lb bag of fertilizer you're talking about. everytime I go to the southernag site, I can't find it listed by item number.
Is it something I have to call about?
how is it labeled/what the name brand?
Thanks,

Hey there grizzman, yes, it is tricky to find the product listing. Go to the main home page. www.southernag.com. when the page comes up, look at the bottom of the page, You will see small lettered links. the first one says home. As you read across, click on the professional products link. When the next page comes up, on the lower left of the page, you will see a box. Inside the small box, you will see CLICK HERE TO SEE A CATALOG OF OUR PROFESSIONAL PRODUCTS. Click that link in the box, and a PDF file will come up. The cover of the catalog will be seen. Go to the bottom of the page and cilck the page advance to go to page 6 of the catalog. It will be page 7 of the file because the cover is the first file page. The page numbers of the catalog are easy to see on the bottom of the pages. On page 6, look at the middle of the center coloum. You should see SA SOLUBLE HYDRO SPECIAL 6-11-26. But, you can not order the product on that page. Your best bet is to just do it over the phone. Good luck, chuck

Great! thanks.
I was browsing you site earlier and noticed you had post a picture of a 555 timer diagram. any chance you can tell us what that timer was for and if it worked.
Thanks again for the good info.

Way back a frew months ago, I started my venture on hydro I stayed up untill 3a.m many night taking in information via osmosis here are a couple sights that might answer some more questions. My favorites list is chocked full of them.http://www.mayhillpress.com/more.html//////////http://www.linkroll.com/hydroponics/adopting-hydroponic-gardening-as-a-hobby.php////http://www.dbcourt.co.uk/hydroponics/System%20_types.html..If anyone needs more I'll see what I can dig up

Hi grizzman, Yea, when I first started up the floatnslope system, I used a 555 to key a relay to turn on a DC sump pump for the nutrient return. Trouble was, the sump pumps didn't last very long, and I had to step up from battery operation to regular commercial power. I eliminated all timers and just installed a float switch which was the best solution. With the float switch in the lower run-off tank, there were fewer disasters. When the pump fails, or the power goes out, the runoff tank would overflow, and I would lose all my nutrients. At that time, I was using the expensive stuff from the online hydro stores. If I were to set up another large system with a hundred gallon nutrient tank, I would include a second float switch to close a battery operated solinoid valve in the supply line comming out of the main tank to the header. If I had a few extra bucks, I'd also set up a solar charger for the battery power for the solinoid safety shut off. But I didn't think of it at the time, and would lose $50 or so bucks worth nutrients every time there was a power outage or pump failure. There are a lot of cheap 12 volt timers available now that have 10 amp contacts. A lot of them are used as exerciser timers in emergency generator systems. Other programable timers are used for water sprinkler systems. But if you can use a float switch, thats an easy way to control the cycle. chuck

Chuck wrote:
. . and would lose $50 or so bucks worth nutrients . .
That's an awful lot of money to lose. I don't think I've spent that kind of money on chemicals in the last six years. Most expensive things I've bought is ± $20 for ± 6.5 gallon of 55% nitric acid and ± $5 for a 55lb bag of potassium sulphate. And I'm still not even halfway through that lot.
Looks to me that you guys are being ripped off for a convenient "off the shelf" availability and that you could make big savings mixing your own nutrients.

Hi greystoke. When I first started back in around 2001, I bought my supplies from the online hydroponic stores. With a 160 gallon nutrient tank, the cost for the nutrients was around $75 dollars for enough to make 250 gallons of nutrient. So I would mix up the 160 gallons, and use the rest to replenish the tank as the numbers went down. Even now the cost is still high. see www.hydroponics.net/1/21/211860 . But as I shared earlier, I soon found a commercial source for quality nutrients that is very reasonable, probably around 50 cents for 150 gallons. But beginners are ripped off like this every day. Thaat is why I started this discussion to plead with the expirenced growers to share as much as possible with the new people who are comming here everyday hopeing to find some help to feed their family affordably. So you and I will pass along our mistakes we made in the hopes the new growers can avoid them. After several overflows due to equipment breakdowns, I went on a search for affordiable options, and finally, a fellow here on the hydroponics net told me about SOUTHERN AGRICULTURE, and I was able to continue running the system despite occassional break downs. That being said, despite the high cost of those first nutrients, they sure did work very well, making my initial exposure to hydroponics operations successful, if not costly. chuck

Greystoke, and everyone else intrested in a nice design, check out the link below to see a vertical growing system using what looks to be 6' or 8' pvc pipe with 1 3/4 inch or maybe 2 inch holes for the plants (in this case strawberries) in a staggard layout up the pipe. It looks like the nutrients are fed from a short pvc pipe on the top; I have seen vertical designs used before with commercially made stacked trays, but for a do-it-yourself system, this is very nice for high volume, low footprint growing. (way to go tom.) chuck

I'm definitely going to have to check out that commercial source. You said that you've got to call them to order the stuff you recommend, right?

Is it just called "SA SOLUBLE HYDRO SPECIAL 6-11-26" or is there some other name/product number?

garysgarden: the product number is 64777. chuck.

On another thread, I got a request for some information about a main nutrient tank and algea control. Well, I did have a small amount of algea, but for the most part, it was very minor because there was a floating styrofoam cover that floated on the surface of the tank. The tank was actually a kiddie pool. Well, if you're intrested, follow the link below. chuck

Attn: Chuck, I just rediscovered your website. I've been following your growing ambitions pretty much as long as you've been at it. I've been dormant for a couple of years now cuz I'm just too old and lazy to build another garden. I'm now leaning toward doing a couple of your grow box design just to get some good tomatoes . The ones here in California taste like they belong in the African "Keyhole Garden". I know you're probably upset about no room anymore, but I'm confident that you'll come up with some inovation to change that. Keep up the good work and by the way, what ever happened to Art in Alabama, do you know?

Best wishes

Hi tailwheel, I think Art started alabama hydroponics and built it up into a good sized business. I know they used to have annual tomato growing contests. I am trying out a vertical pipe grower that is simular to the one used at all seasons fruit company. They used what looks like 8 inch PVC pipes. I am using a 7 inch aluminum duct tube in my test unit. I am going to try growing spinach with it. Spinach has got expensive lately. Thanks for saying hi. chuck

greystoke

have you looked into aquaponics at all? i don't know what kind of availability you have in africa, but an aquarium with some fish can feed a grow bed. there is a specific balance of fish to water to plant ratio to make sure the system doesn't kill itself, but as i understand it, all you need to do is feed the fish.

i assume you can feed them partially from what you grow, some types of fish can be fed itself. i don't know if thats feasible where you are, or if fish are even available, or if it would be cheaper than buying the nutrients you currently need.

just throwing an idea out there.

Yes, I've thought about aquaponics quite a lot. Keeping fish is my second hobby.
But you can only do this with fish that are tolerant to high levels of nutrients, ie: catfish (plenty of them in Africa!). Generally, the nutrient levels are very low, which puts a limit on what you can grow successfully. Lettuce and herbs will be fine, but tomatoes and cauliflower ???? I think not.
I'm also questioning the efficiency of fishfood versus chemicals. Fishfood can be expensive. For catfish it needs to contain at least 40% protein.

You might want to look into vermicomposting. Worms are really high in protein, so if you got enough worms and had the garbage to keep them happy and breeding you could generate a constant supply for the fish.

Plus, the worm castings would make for an excellent supplement to the fishy-water.

You might also consider Tilapia. They're a much hardier species of fish than most, and are well-adapted to living in shallow unmoving water (like a big tank). Their dietary requirements are a lot simpler, but I'm not entirely sure what they are. Some commercial aquaponics designs actually grow retail vegetables along with some kind of plant to feed to the Tilapia using the fish tank water as a food source for the plants.

Tilapia are fast-growing fish as well, and rather tasty, so you can grow food in both areas - plants and fish. Keep an eye on water quality and when the fish start to over-pollute the tank it's time to pull some out and fry them up.

Yes, Tilapia is another good choice. Also typically South African (and indeed rather tasty). It can stand a fair amount of nutrient in the water and it is relatively herbivorous compared to catfish.

Oh I have been thinking about it a lot.