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Nitrogen Concentration for pepper plants
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Posted by grizzman (My Page) on Mon, Jun 15, 09 at 13:20
Once my pepper plants start putting out flowers, what nitrogen concentration should I aim for in my hydro solution?
Thanks. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Nitrogen Concentration for pepper plants
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| Actually you should be more concerned about the K-concentration, as this element is mostly needed in sufficient amounts during flowering . The nitrogen concentration should be the lowest during this stage, - actually it will be lower in favour of the Potassium. Though the ideal nutrition between flowering- and fruiting stage it is a bit tricky as the fruiting stage needs sufficient (more) nitrogen again. Well, you'll always (mostly) have one part of your plant flowering while another is having small, medium or even ripening fruits at the same time. I have been testing/ playing around with these 17-6-22 (standard)
16-10-26 (flowering Stage)
17-8-22 (fruiting s Stage) After pushing concentration as high as 1.8 -2.0 EC, I found that all Peppers (ranging from annuum to wild species) do best with much lower concentrations: 1.2-1.4 EC. Between 600 and 700 PPM, if you prefer. |
RE: Nitrogen Concentration for pepper plants
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thanks. Interesting, none of the big three really don't fluctuate that much between the stages, though I'm surprised the potassium is so much higher.
When you say the concentration should be between 600-700ppm, is that the overall nutrient concentration or just the concentration of the N-P-K?
My current mix registered an EC of 0.9 with the total combined concentration of useful nutrients at 620 ppm. |
RE: Nitrogen Concentration for pepper plants
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Hi grizzman,
When design "drain to waste" tropical hydroponic projects this is the formula we use to calculate the fertilizer the bell peppers will use.
It is convenient to work with, because most development schemes can not rely on re-circulating pumps/electricity & a set formula, pH stable ppm mix can be made up on demand (tropical temperatures are a problem for low budget nutrient reservoirs).
At flower/fruit production the tropical drain to waste fertigation frequency is up to +/- 40 times a day of this formula, with all nutrients stated as ppm (they total 713 ppm):
N= 160
P = 50
K = 200
Ca = 190
Mg = 48
S = 65
For those readers interested in guide lines for an immature bell pepper transplant's fertilizer formula, here is the data in ppm (they total 444 ppm):
N=70
P=50
K=119
Ca=110
Mg=40
S = 55 |
RE: Nitrogen Concentration for pepper plants
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Hi gringojay,
Interesting - quite close to what I use.
But for "drain to waste" you feed just for a few mins if fertigated more or less 40 times a day, - don't you? Otherwise it's getting kinda expensive. Don't you modify the formula during flowering or fruiting stage? This is for Bell Peppers right? But do you (or would you) use the same formula for Capsicum Chinense, or Cayenne type or even C. Frutescens species? Don't you grow any of these in DR? What about trace elements and Fe, - do you use very standard/classic values or any deviation? Little information is actually available about more specific peppers. Here I've got another formula which has much higher concentration:
Regarding the proportions (cut it down by 50%), it has just a little lower K. and N, respectively some more P. Closer to my 60 PPM of P
Magnesium (+S) and Calzium are kinda identical. Nothing fancy here either. N - 302 ppm
P - 103 ppm,
K- 364 ppm,
Mg - 96 ppm
Ca - 330 ppm
S -174 ppm,
Fe 4.90 ppm
Mn - 1.97 ppm
Zn - 0.25 ppm
B -0.70 ppm
Co - 0.07 ppm
Mo- 0.05 ppm. |
RE: Nitrogen Concentration for pepper plants
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| Naive question here: Where do you guys get these formulas? I'm very interested in putting together my own nutrient solutions. I just don't know where to start in gathering the knowledge and I find the search tools on this site to be less than satisfactory (which may very well be all me). Is there, by chance, a book anyone can recommend on the subject? Not just basic. I'm interested in really learning the complexities, too. Sorry to go off topic, but it seemed the place to ask. |
Nitrogen Concentration for pepper plants
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Not a naive question at all. I wouldn't mind knowing either.
Heck. You guyz get me the concentrations for various plants and I'll put together a web page listing them.
I have a formula for strawberries and for tomatoes. I'll just need to break them down into various mineral concentrations.
For me, at least, those plus peppers are my primary interests with hydroponics.
Looks Like I've got some work to do. When I get it done I'll post a link. |
trace mineral computations
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The following are cipher ratio equivalents for computing the amount of raw materials (grams/liter dilution) needed for an individual trace minerals' ppm in that solution (1 ppm = 0.001 gram, or 1 mg., per liter of water):
0.0227 gr./lt. Iron (as "Sequestrene 330") = 1.46 ppm Fe
0.0001 gr./lt. Zinc sulfate = 0.022 ppm Zn
0.0001 gr./lt. Copper sulfate = 0.153 ppm Cu
0.0001 gr./lt. Manganese sulfate = 0.018 ppm Mn
0.0001 gr./lt. Sodium Molybate = 0.022 ppm Mo
0.0001 gr//lt. Boron (as "Solubor") = 0.13 ppm B
The following is a sample goal for large plants (tomato, eggplant, pepper) & is for each individual trace minerals' ppm within the total fertilizer nutrient solution:
Fe = 2.8 ppm
Zn = 0.3 ppm
Cu = 0.2 ppm
Mn = 0.8 ppm
Mo = 0.06 ppm
B = 0.7 ppm |
RE: Nitrogen Concentration for pepper plants
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| Hi again, Specific formulas are indeed hard to lay hand on. I've got a few (beans, banana, tomato, pepper) but I actually do not trust them 100%. They may be OK in some climate, with substrate X, but not Z, under light conditions A, but not necessarily with B, etc. Some universities made research on the topic and the results are public. Dut I don't know of any site, info or other documentation (book) that lists a range of formulas for different plants or vegetables. Most reliable and conclusive info would be provided by commercial growers around the world. Unfortunatelay they do not share their professional secrets - why should they anyway. "For me, at least, those plus peppers are my primary interests with hydroponics."
Could you be more specific please. What exactly do you understand by "plus peppers" ? For those who want make their own nutrients from raw materials, please be also more specific about your present knowledge and goals, or ask specific questions. I do calculate and compose nutrients from scratch. I've writen a Excel spread sheet i use for this purpose. I can thus break down existing formulas (as in 17-5-22 (+5) or more explicit formulas with all PPM values as shown above, into raw materials which are needed. In other words make a ready to go recipe for a two-component concentrate (which is based on actual and standard raw materials). |
RE: Nitrogen Concentration for pepper plants
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by peppers I meant sweet frying peppers. Last year I grew
perfection true heart.
This year I'm trying both those and some sweet cherry peppers (shown below.)
These are not mine, just pictures from the site.
I'm not really set on one type of pepper. I grew some bells a couple of seasons ago, but I generally prefer something I can't get at the grocery or farmers market.
As for my experience and goals; this is my first season of not following a cookbook recipe to make my own nutrients. I have a remedial knowledge of chemistry and a science background. I too use a spread sheet to calculate various concentrations based on what I have on hand. I am currently looking for a way to increase potassium levels and calcium levels without adding nitrogen. . . calcium phosphate?
the reason I post the original question is because I have experienced some blossom drop as have others here. from reading various posts, it was suggested excess nitrogen could be the culprit. That lead to all the other information that has been posted to this point, which I find very useful indeed.
Thanks for information. |
RE: Nitrogen Concentration for pepper plants
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| Hi again grizzman! "I am currently looking for a way to increase potassium levels and calcium levels without adding nitrogen." As for calzium supply you surely use calcium nitrate, well in this case separate add of calcium is a common problem. There is not much alternative to calcium nitrate. Same for Mg, as we supply it through Magnnesium Sulfate, it goes along with high sulfur content. As far as I know there is only Calcium Chloride with
36% Ca. But It can only be used moderately because of it's Cl content. You may consider using it as a foliar spray, or a combination as well. As for the maximum that can be used I have no data so far, tell me if you find out. I guess that CaCl-content ofyour tap water should be considered as well. As for Potassium, you have Potassium chloride (muriate of potash) - 60% K2O (49.8% K) but be aware of the cloride content as well. Or (just) in case you want to push P, you may use some Monoammonium phosphate (MAP) - 12% N, 48% P2O5 (21% P) here be careful where in your 2 components you put it, if I remember well it reacts with calcium cloride. PS: when looking for any alternative raw materials, do not get adventurous, but relay on commonly used and accepted materials instead. Some you may think of, are either not water soluble and/or have elements, contamination or other content that is not suited. ;-) As for the flowering, yes the K-content should be sufficient and the N-content not to high. But this is only part of the story. If a plant has genetic potential, space, light and nutrients enough to grow big, it may consider giving predominance to the vegetative process, instead of keeping flowers and caring about reproduction. It obviously depends on variety, specie - if well domesticated, or rather semi-domesticated, considered wild, and their branching habit. In other words blooming and blossom drop it's kinda complex and idiopathic. Increasing K-content might not have that much influence in some cases. |
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