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angryrooster

Help and suggestions please! Totally confused newbie!

jjaazzy
12 years ago

I have been reviewing and studying all your posts and youtube videos on hydroponics till my head is water logged with information. Please tell me your suggestions on what I should do. I am in zone 10 and would like to grow tomatoes I think Plum would be easiest, maybe strawberries, eggplant, peppers and other stuff as well. I would like to grow it outdoors. A lot of the stuff I see is for people up north that have a short grow cycle and need to. I however would like to take advantage of our weather and do it outdoors. What system should I be looking at I am totally overwhelmed with the totes that have water and a bubbler in them. Then there is the PVC that is all connected and the water runs through it like a track. What should I do? Is one system better then the other for different type plants. I want to do a DIY I have the air pump and I have several water pumps, and I can get whatever else that is needed. I just need some direction.

Comments (9)

  • Sarkastic
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Zone 10 gives you a longer growing season but you have more heat to deal with later in the summer. Growing outdoors has it's own special problems when growing with Hydroponics. The reservoir temp can not get too hot or all the Oxygen will be depleted and the roots will cook, all of which will stress the plants and cause all types of problems.
    PVC pipe that runs like a track, that is an NFT (nutrient film technique) system and it would work very well if you keep the water temp low. Water is always moving through an NFT system at a very low volume. NFT can be done with various materials as a DIY and can be set up somewhat easily be a beginner.
    Ebb and Flow is the simplest to set up and maintain but water temp is going to be a major problem along with rain water filling the reservoir and diluting the nutrient solution and drowning the roots.

    DWC (Deepwater Culture) Raft system would help with several water quality issues like temp and PH since there will be a larger volume of water. Not all plants, tomato's included, will handle their roots being submerged.

    How many plants of what size are you wanting to grow?
    Have you looked at the different types of systems and have a favorite that you are thinking of trying?

  • homehydro
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    First thing is growing hydroponically isn't like growing in soil. That is, picking a spot of land and growing everything in that spot (tomatoes, peppers, strawberries, eggplant, and other stuff) at the same time. Not that you cant grow them all, and/or next to each other, but just that it would be unwise to try to grow all in the same system.

    I build all my systems myself, and the first thing I take into consideration before I build it, is what will be growing in it. Then I design the system around the plants size and needs. As well as what materials I have, or can get (and their cost). For instance, I would build and design two completely different systems for tomatoes and strawberry's because tomato's are much larger, and need top support (the specific plant needs). But I would build very similar systems for tomato's and peppers. With the main difference between tomato's and peppers being the size container used to contain the growing medium and roots (because pepper plants are generally smaller than tomato's).

    Each of the six type of hydroponic systems, NFT, Drip, Ebb & Flow (flood and drain), Water culture (sometimes referred to as DWC, short for Deep Water culture), Aeroponic, and Wick, all have their own pro's and cons. But yes different systems are better for different types of plants, but opinions there will vary from person to person. For instance, there are many people who would say they feel a water culture system is the way to go for tomatoes. But I would say a drip system is better for tomato than a water culture system is. Mainly because of the size plant tomatoes are, a water culture system offers too many cons because of that for me.

    My advice on how I would start is first decide on an approximate budget. Take inventory of what materials I already had to work with, pumps, tubing, buckets, totes, anything that can be used for building a hydro system, including used for a reservoir etc. etc. etc.. Make a list of what crops I wanted to grow, and put them in order of importance. Then decide what can/or will be grown together in the same system (or not grown together). Then decide on what type of system for each crop will best suite my needs (and budget). That includes the space I have to work with, as well as how many of the plants I want to grow. Then make a rough estimate of all the materials needed to build each of the systems needed. Compare that to my budget, then if it's within budget, build the systems. If not, then scale back building only the systems for the most important plants/crops first.

    Growing outside in natural sunlight offers it's own pro's and cons (and is my preference). Con's are mostly because you'll be at the mercy of weather conditions (including the temperature of the nutrient solution), but also because their typically more susceptible to pests and plant diseases. Pro's mostly include "NO" expensive artificial lighting equipment, or the electricity to run them. As well as access to bees and pollinating insects for plants that need pollination. Most growers typically have more room to grow outside than they would inside as well, so usually less space limitations. These considerations should be part of the system design as well.

  • jjaazzy
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you both so much, for you time trying to help me out. So as I understand it the water temp is an issue. That makes a lot of sense. As I was reading it I was thinking of a snaked PVC track that at the end just poured out into the reservoir bucket below. That drop through the air into the bucket might cool the liquid enough maybe. Thinking the bucket should be pretty large volume of water to keep it cool as well. Also I should shade that bucket from the sun. All things to consider. To do the deep water, I have some buckets already that are small and deep that had cat food in it from Costco, specifically Deli Cat. I think they would probably hold two plants. If I use them, I would need to put an air pump in there and nutrient for the water. Do I also need a pump? And would that be good for say Peppers cause you didn't think tomatoes would do well in the deep water. I do have limited space and figured the strawberries would have to be a vertical set up and that might get too confusing to start out with. I would say tomatoes and peppers is a good way to start. I also have an orchid tent that I could hide the reservoir under to shade it if I had too. I didn't really consider the afternoon rains that would add to any liquid I was already running through the system. hummm so much to figure out. I am thinking now the cat food containers are going to be the fastest start up. So just an air stone? Peppers? If I wanted to make one for tomatoes should I run more of a drip system from the bottom of the bucket up through to the top of a net pot and let it trickle through. Then do I still need an air stone? I have a couple of these containers so I guess I could make a couple of them. Thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it.

  • homehydro
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes water temp is important, there always seems to be a big debate as how important though. For optimum plant (key word optimum) health the nutrient temp should be between 68 and 75 degrees (continually). The higher the water temp gets, the more heat stress to the plant (especially if air temps are high as well). Also the plant will abort fruiting if the water temps and heat stress levels are too high, as an attempt to elevate stress and stay alive. That's the first lesson I learned in particular hard way living in the desert.

    Higher water temps also have lower oxygen levels that deprive the plants roots from oxygen. Especially important to remember in water culture systems, and the bigger the plant the more oxygen the roots need to suck up. That's one of the "con's of a water culture system for large plants, and one of the reasons I wouldn't want to use a water a culture system for larger plants like tomato's and peppers. However with a large enough air pump, it might be able to replace the oxygen as fast as the plant uses it up.

    The two easiest and simplest hydroponic systems to build are a water culture system, and drip system. The only one simpler is a wick system, however a wick system is much better for small plants and school experiments. A typical water culture system dosen't use a water pump, just an air pump that produce small air bubbles in the nutrient solution where the roots are submerged. However you can use a water pump as well if you want to circulate the water, and that can be helpful depending on your system design.

    Again many people would probably grow peppers in a water culture system. But like tomato's, I would go with using a drip system for both tomato's as well as peppers. The difference in how I would build it is the size buckets I would use to hold the growing medium and roots. I would use a 5 gallon bucket for each tomato plant, and a 2-3 gallon buckets for each pepper plant. Not to be confused with a combination water culture/drip system that has a drip line for top feeding the plant, but still has the roots submerged in the nutrient reservoir. I'm talking about a true drip system. Buckets completely filled with growing medium (not water), and with drain hole at the bottom connected to a tube for draining water back to a "separate reservoir." As well as has a drip ring at the top of the buckets to drip nutrient solution down through the growing medium (by gravity), allowing it to gravity feed through the bottom drain hole back to the reservoir where it recirculates again.

    strawberry's can easily be grown vertically. Both in a vertical tube standing up, or in stacked horizontal tubes (as well as many other designs). The main issue with growing vertically is getting even lighting to all the plants. Just make sure the top plants don't shade the bottom ones too much, and/or other near by structures that may cast a shadow as well.

  • jjaazzy
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So cool and the cobwebs are clearing : ). I think I am getting it. Now with the drip drain through method... What type medium should I use. Clay balls, with orchids we called that aliflora or perlite, I have some of that probably not enough to fill buckets, I purchased some coco coir last supply order but don't know much about it it comes in a brick. Lava rock? Humm so many things, what's recomended to fill that top bucket? Next issue how do I go about treating the water? Is miracle grow added to water enough. I just purchased pro teck for orchids and I see on Lanka good for hydroponics too. I also purchased super thrive does it have any roll in the party? Thanks again for all your help, I have literally spent days online and have not learned as much.

  • massimj
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've gotten great advice from the people in this group. I did build a Ebbnflo system that I have not fired up yet, and after today, I am already going to change it to a drip system. Today I spoke to someone who has 40 pots going, and who also worked at one of the local Hydroponic farms that went out of business. She warned me about the constant battle with PH in a recirculating system. She said that the drip system, once set correctly, will be far easy to take care of. We had a huge rain storm yesterday evening, and besides boosting my cucumber, and melon plants like steroids, it got me wondering how my overflow on the EbbnFlo would have ruined my nutrient tank. It's an easy modification to make, I will convert to a drip this weekend. If you are setting up a new system, I found some timers on eBay with free shipping that are programmable. they cost $23. I have one coming, and will test it when it comes and write a message in this forum about how well, or not,it worked. Also, I am in a hot zone, and my nutrient tank is buried in the ground. It keeps the nutrient very cool. I was also told that my next tomato season starts in September. I think we have 3 growing seasons here, you just have to know what to grow in each of them.

  • homehydro
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You can use most any growing mediums you want. They all have their advantages and disadvantages. Some hold moisture better, some hold more oxygen, some provide better drainage etc.. For my drip systems, I cover the bottom drain hole with a screening filter (that I cut out of a cheep replacement furnace filter). Then I add a layer of rock I get from my back yard (though any river rock or fish tank rock will do). That I wash to get all the dirt off, and sanitize by soaking it in bleach water for an hour or so.

    I use the rock to add weight so the plants don't become top heavy and blow over in the wind (I grow outside). However the layer of rock also provides excellent drainage properties, holds the furnace filter screen in place, and takes up space so less growing medium is needed. Then on top of the rock in the bottom of the bucket, add the growing medium. I like using coco "chips" myself, because it's fairly inexpensive, holds moisture very well, and while still being able to allow the roots to be well aerated. 2 cubic feet of coco chips is about 15 gallons when expanded. With the layer of rock at the bottom (about 1/3) of the bucket, that's enough to fill 4, 5 gallon buckets.

    Coco fiber is the same material as coco chips (made from coconut husks), just smaller particles, so it dosen't aerate as well as the "chips," but still does a good job (chips just do better). The chips are about the size of small wood chips for your smoker, and the coir (fiber) texture is about like peat moss. Here is a link that shows some different typical growing mediums Growing Medium, I haven't used lava rock, though I understand it works well also. What ever growing medium you use, you'll want to rinse it off well first. The coco chips (or coir) will color the water at first, but wont hurt the plants at all, and eventually rinses out.

    Treating water (like water filtration systems), or nutrients to use? Sounds like you meant what type of nutrients to use. Miracle grow dosen't make a line of hydroponic nutrients that I know of, and I'm not familiar with "pro teck," "Lanka," or "super thrive." But you want to use nutrients designed for hydroponic plants. Fertilizers that are for use in soil don't contain the micro elements (elements used by the plant in small quantities) needed for healthy plant growth (because soil contains enough of them). Soil fertilizers generally only contain the macro (elements used by the plant in large quantities). Hydroponic nutrients are designed to be complete, and provide all the mineral elements (macro, and micro elements). So just make sure their made for hydroponic plants. I have used both the General Hydroponics Flora Series nutrients, and the Verti-Gro nutrients.

    The GH flora series is a 3 part nutrient (that needs all 3 parts to work correctly), and because it's a 3 part nutrient, it allows more flexibility in mixing them for your specific plant needs. However if you grow enough it will get quite expensive, making about 390 gallons of nutrient solution from the 1 gallon concentrate jugs, and costs about $100 (shipping not included if you need it). The Verti-Gro nutrients are a 2 part nutrient that needs both parts to work (the fertilizer, and calcium nitrate). They come dry and are mixed separately in water jugs to create a liquid nutrient concentrate, that are generally mixed evenly into the nutrient solution. The 4 lb combo special (fertilizer, and calcium nitrate, SKU#: FCombo) that includes shipping and runs under $40, and makes about 500 gallons of nutrient solution. The 25 lb quantities make about 5000 gallons for about $130 (shipping included).

    Here are a few others that are priced similar to the Verti-Gro nutrients that I haven't tried yet, but plan to test out in the future.

    QuickGrow nutrients
    J.R. Peters nutrients (I especially want to try these)

    P.S.
    If you want to send me a e-mail at; rocketman1022000@yahoo.com with the title "drip system" I can send you complete directions on how I built one of my drip systems. It's in PDF, is easily printed out, and contains many pictures of the build. Even if you don't build it, it will probably give you some good ideas.

  • grizzman
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    massimj
    you comment about recirculating systems being hell on pH needs some clarification because most of us use recirculating systems even when using a drip system. your friend who recommended the drip system is using a run to waste system, so none of the nutrient is being reused. you just need to be aware of this difference and not think that just by using a drip system the woes of pH adjustment will be eliminated.

  • jjaazzy
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow I had no idea about the costs of the nutrients. I better produce some veggies! JR Peters is probably a very good product. It use to be just called Peters and we used their 20-20-20 fertilizer for years. Then there was a change within the company I don't know what and now it's really hard to find at least the last time I needed it. Homehydro thanks so much for all your links and info. I am still going through some of them. The growing medium was a terrific link. Thank you!