Good example of
Chlorosis I don't think I could have done better If I tried, especially the small wilted one. Not what I look for in a plant, but to each his own.

homie why do you come on here? You make such obivous mistakes because you can't take the time to read what others post. your just here to be petty and flipent. As I said a failed blogger and your angery. Did it ocurr to you that there's nothing special about your "knowledge". It's common. Not only that it's sallow. You can't figure out that a cutting might wilt after several hours in the sun. You don't know the benifits of chlorsis in helping root cuttings. I mean this is really basic stuff. Get that light closet done yet?

What benefit can there possibly be to plants (cuttings or not) having Chlorosis?

I'm not angry or a blogger, I read this post days ago, and just didn't care (still don't). But not much was going on in this forum and I guess I was just board. I don't clam to have any special knowledge, that's your job. But for me, if my plants had Chlorosis that wouldn't be something I was proud of. I would try to figure out why, and fix it. You don't need to if you don't want to, there your plants. Heck maybe you just like yellow leaves, that's your call. But I avoid that myself, I like green leaves.

P.S. I have no need for a light closet. But if I ever have a purpose for one, rest assured I will have no problem building it.

now into the second week all the cuttings are showing new bud growth. In fact mulitable buds per cutting. Same with the feedstock trees I took them from.
Using this method to grow bio-fuel allows areas unthought of to be put into production.
I took two cuttings from three plants and three from a third. The way it looks that means every three months I can take cuttings. Even from the new cuttings not just from the feedstock. Remenmber the cuttings have three and four new branches each whic can be use to make new cuttings. That's 27 new plants just from the cuttings by spring. That's not counting the feedstock. By next fall I could be looking at near 600 new plants. After that I start covering acres. That's starting from just 4 plants. The way it looks by inground method you get about 1,100 plants per acre. By my method that changes to about 2,000 per acre. Any acre, concrete, gravel, roof tops doesn't matter. Not only that you can start several industrial products from it's bio mass.
This is another one in the plus side.

OK, lets say I'm naive enough to believe everything you say. What makes these plants a better bio-fuel than others. Sounds like you need the seeds to create it, and you haven't produced one yet. Corn is bio-fuel, soy beans are bio-fuel etc.. I applaud the effort, but results are what makes the bank. Electric cars have been around for over 50 years, but that doesn't make them efficient.

Also the concept of growing more plants in the same amount of space is not new, so why is your so called system different? I'm just trying to find out what you find so fascinating about what everyone else has known for years.

I'm sure there must be a teabaggers forum on here somewhere. A place where people who want to remain willfully blind can go. You know where people who've known for years what they've known for years can meet and feel safe with what they've known for years. Sorry this isn't that forum.
Let's take the seed question. The barbados nut take 18 months to produce it's first seed, if grown from seed. The cuttings from Barbados nuts takes 9 months to produce seed. Using my method you use 1 gallon of water a month rather than a few gallons a day. There's no trade off between food or fuel. People don't eat Barbados nut. Corn, soybeans are net negative return energy users. It cost more to make it than you get back. You don't have to use large amounts of fossil fuels to keep the soil fertile barbados nut makes it's own fertilizer. More than enought for other plants too. Well enough of this other places or things

For once you actually answered a question, did h*** freeze over? I never calmed to know all about Barbados nuts or bio-fuels. But I don't really think that just because those nuts are not editable (as you say) makes them any better than other crops grown for bio-fuel. Even if you feel you can grow them twice as fast. Actually I see that as a downside (for large scale). If there is no market for them (and there not eat-able) they will just wind up in a compost heap. At least if they were able to be sold as food, then they may have an alternate market. Anybody that has grown crops for sale to the public knows/learns the value of selling their crop ASAP. The less of a market (demand) the less anyone will pay, and thus that's the end of that.

Good luck with that it's a noble cause, but I still don't see how your going/plan to accomplish that thinking all those yellow leaves are great. I would want to improve it if that was my goal (that was my original comment, and yet no answer). OK lets leave it up to the rest of the forum (scene you have no idea), anybody know:

"What benefit can there possibly be to plants (cuttings or not) having Chlorosis?"

You mean an answer your level of experience allows you. That's the problem isn't homie you came on here to be the "expert" and found yourself lacking, but you take it so hard homie. Even the computer dosen't know everything sometimes you have to go out and find things out yourself. But you you need to be right, you need to be the one giving the answers and you've been trying that since you've came on here.

"I never calmed to know all about Barbados nuts or bio-fuels. "
No you claim knowledge. See when I was teaching computers back in the 80's I got students who were so gun ho on learning because computer jobs were everywhere.
I always told them to wait a mintue. A comuter is a tool, nothing more. Without a skill you can use the computer for your wasting your time. That's you homie, you got yourself a machine but no knowledge of plants. You got the fringe knowledge but none of the basic stuff (skill). You haven't done cutting have you or you would have understood what benifit chlorosis has to cuttings. Your the one who even gave the link with the answer in plain black and white. It's fall homie why are the leaves changing color? That's your answer. Whether it's a 75 foot tree or a 6 inch cutting. What does chlorosis do. No I don't mean the time of year either
Now as to the yellow leaves you no longer have to look at them, they did their job and fell off. Now in the third week I have new plants that by next summer will be in flower. The feedstook which takes 18 months will be in flower at the same time. But enough of this.
The main problem with using Barbados nuts as a bio-fruel isseed production. not that the seed itself doesn't have enough oil ( 30% in the seed 60% in the kernel) but the number of seeds produced. Barbados nut isn't a crop it's wild. You have no way of knowing from seed what the plants will produce but by taking cutting from good seed plants you have better control of oil production.

That's homehydro, he bends and twists everything until it fits his level of understanding and experience. Insistingly bending and twisting everything again and again in every possible but extraneous direction. That's his strategy of frantically looking smart (and yes he is trying suspiciously hard) to keep up with others, having actually very poor and limited knowledge.

True, nobody wants to look stupid and nearly everyone wants to look at least somewhat smart, it's a very common and understandable behavior of all (at least most) of us. But then again some never ever realize that they are actually not that smart and simply wrong most of the time. Literally not up to the task, no matter how hard they try. They tend to end up never overcoming the following: "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge"-Daniel Boorstin.

I got your idea of the Barbados Nut as an interesting candidate for oil (fuel) production, georgii. I also got your point of "no trade off between food or fuel", which is indeed a critical point that has been widely overseen. In fact initially by way too many people, antagonists, protagonists, scientists, ecologists and politicians of all parties and ideologies alike. And in fact you can't completely rule this ambiguous part out, as any space (even if used in a most economical way and extremely optimized water or nutrient consumption) used for fuel crops, - will obviously not be available for any food production. Even though this aspect may not matter yet (for some interest groups or individuals), - there may come times when it will clearly matter for them. As well concerning funds, space, time and water availability. In other words, you can't completely eliminate the known discrepancy and ambivalence between food and fuel production. Actually, looking at the problem on a global level and scale right now, - considering around 50,000 people (including children) dying daly from starvation, there is in fact no ethically nor morally plausible justification for growing a single fuel crop. There are only arguments that turn out to be immoral, as soon as you consider the actual and real current situation. No need to be a convinced Philanthropist to get aware of the real and actual situation on a global scale.

Hence, if you want to grow fuel crops, do it with the most productive crops in the most economic (and perhaps ecological) way possible. But better leave the ideologic and most importantly the ethics and the morality out of the equation. Otherwise you are always summoning the devil somehow, - no matter how you justify it.

Purely technically seen, I agree again with you georgiii, that the actual problem in such choice (of this or any fuel crop) resides in the necessary production scale that is necessary to be able extract at least a decent amount of oil/fuel. The real weak point of any hydroponic methot is indeed that it will not be able to compete with any large scale FIELD crop production (or any kind of fruit orchard) any soon. Neither for food nor fuel production. I don't know about others, but I can hardly imagine a hydroponic plant that measures even close to a few thousand acres.

The Chlorosis thing: homehydro, be honest - a few month ago you didn't even know what the term Chlorosis meant and asked "english please", when I came up with it together with other more technical and special terms like EM, Chitosan and Trichoderma. And now you are already using it to pointing with your finger at others. How smart is that?

But I don't see Chlorosis as beneficial either, more like either a deficiency or a indeed rather frequent "natural occurrence", depending on actual cause(s). With cuttings at a certain season, it may indeed be more like a normal and "natural occurrence" or an inevitable side effect if you prefer. Also, low nutrient concentration may be intentional to promote root development - and the side effect may end up in some degree of Chlorosis at the other end. But with this part (and general recommendation of some) I am sceptic and have already warned from falling for the myth that extra low nutrient concentrations are always the way to go for cuttings. Root shots are indeed enhanced with this method, but you may easily starve your plants in the same time and inhibit shot growth at the other end. Hence I came to the conclusion (and actual practice) that medium strength for cuttings is a good compromise to simultaneously get good root stimulation and initiating shoots.

If you are preparing to over-winter some cuttings like georgiii, you may use another strategy though... ;-)

"You mean an answer your level of experience allows you. That's the problem isn't homie you came on here to be the "expert" and found yourself lacking,"

No,
I mean like giving a reply as if you were a human being, not like someone with there nose up in the air, a stick in their butt, and a pompous attitude like they were better than everybody else. That's exactly your attitude in a nutshell, and I will never be able to stomach that type of attitude from anyone, no matter who or where they are. In fact the worse they are, the worse I tend to become.

Of coarse I know that some leaves change color in the fall, so what? That's due to the season/weather changes. That doesn't mean insufficient chlorophyll is beneficial, even if it is caused by seasonal changes. that's just knowing what caused it, that does not make Chlorosis beneficial. No mater what the reason without sufficient chlorophyll the leaves won't be able photosynthesize properly. The changing season does not change that.

Bottom line if your yellow leaves were due to the changing season, that would have been easy and simple to say. But instead you show your typical stuck up and pompous attitude. You should save your change, so you can save enough money to have an operation in order to get that stick out.

Your the one claiming to be an expert, I have never done any such thing. I don't find myself lacking either, although I have never made my own nutrients and just don't have any experience doing that. So I would consider myself lacking in that department. But for now commercially manufactured nutrients work for me.

lucas you gave me such a tickle this morning. 3:30 this morning I got up to do a little reading. I always scroll to the bottom first and start from there. I didn't lift it up enough to see the name. I started reading and said to myself" wait a mintue? This is making sense" but it was lucas. Still gives me a smile.
Homie let me make it easy for you. I'm the expert on Non-Nutrient Hydroponics. Feel better. Wait there's more. I'm also the expert on the Hydro-Pod, the Hydro-Pail and the Hydro-Bucket. I'm also the expert on the Nanny Pod, the Bubblier, the Garden Pod, the Waterfall Pod, the Waterfall stand, Corn Pumps do I also need to laid claim to my different mixes and fertilizers I use? I can claim that because no one else in the whole world can claim that. look it up and see who's name comes up. But in the roar of time none of that means a thing.
Oh, oh wait here's something else. I thought of a method of creating motion using styrfoam chips. Figured it out while I was making a mix. No energy inputs and no moving parts to wear out. Of course I don't know how to control the speed, I can make it hover but the speed is down right scary. Especially since I don't know how to make it STOP!!! Haahahaa sorry I amuse myself sometimes. But really homie I give this knowledge away free. I activly seek out agencies, dept, charities, the UN and places even here where it's going to help. See lucas made another point.

"Otherwise you are always summoning the devil somehow, - no matter how you justify it."

Oh momma!! Oh and as far as having a stick up my but we call that a spine and I'm very happy with the one I have.
Now back to plants. This weekend the temps are going into the low 40's. I have 10 of the Hydro-Pods I'm thinking of taking cuttings from the peppers to over winter. See that's why I gave them names so different people will know what different things I'm talking about.

These are two of the 9 cuttings I took and their growth has been pretty good. This is two weeks. Same squrit evey three days

Homie let me make it easy for you. I'm the expert on Non-Nutrient Hydroponics. Feel better. Wait there's more. I'm also the expert on the Hydro-Pod, the Hydro-Pail and the Hydro-Bucket. I'm also the expert on the Nanny Pod, the Bubblier, the Garden Pod, the Waterfall Pod, the Waterfall stand, Corn Pumps do I also need to laid claim to my different mixes and fertilizers I use? I can claim that because no one else in the whole world can claim that.

You can clam all you want if you wish, and that may make it true in the world you live in, but in the rest of the world that doesn't make it so. In the world the rest of us live in your just an expert in stuck up. You can call that stick a backbone, but having a backbone does not make a person stuck up. You definitely have a stick.

And from what I have read from your posts, you don't share much of anything (if you even know). If you know much of anything you keep it to yourself, and just clam to share. I believe the free part because theirs not even a dumb person on the planet that would pay for that. All you have shared so far is you can stick a plant in a bucket and squirt something on it, who cant?

Here I definitely give up on both of you, you guys can "clam" whatever you like and compete about who's brain is more f****up. Ad nauseam if you like.
Goodness, how ridiculous this is, - what a pitiable sight. I don't wonder any longer why this world is so screwed up - when it's full of brain dead Jerks that have just some jealousy and their free-standing egos left.

Simple Question.

Whats wrong with Camelina sativa?

Simple answer: I'd rather call it "an insufficient substitute in case of a Fluoxetine shortage" like the present. LOL

"I don't wonder any longer why this world is so screwed up - when it's full of brain dead Jerks that have just some jealousy and their free-standing egos left."

lucas
Ya that's just how I feel, your ego is even larger than georgeiii's, you may want to take a look in a mirror. But again, you'll just want continue to see the illusion where you think your perfect.

Well I guess your right lucas, haahahaa it did become a pissing contest. Homie let me say I'm sorry for the way I mis-treated you on here and I'm going back to talking about plants

Just what I expected.
You ask a couple of geniuses a simple question and all you get is sarcasm.

I had looked at Camelina sataiva but there were several reasons I didn't use it. My methods of growing wouldn't allow for enough production of seed to make a project viable. And again food verus fuel problems for land use. If you compare the sizs of the space requriements for both types of plants Barbados nuts fill the space under production much better. (alot better) Barbados nut produce seeds all year round under the proper conditions while Camelina only produces seed once a year. The other is Barbados nuts are trees that live 45 years or more while Camelina are small annual plants. Both have seed viability problems but with cloning those problems are over come for Barbados nut while the same can't be said of Camelina satavia.

Thank you Georgeiii,
I understand the cloning process and how it saves maturing time. I grow Plumeria from cuttings which would not normally flower for several years if grown from seed. Asexually propagated, they can flower in ten months or less depending on when they are started and climate/weather conditions. Actually, your B-nut cuttings look very much like plumeria cuttings excepting the shape of the leaves. Do you have any projections regarding annual production of bio-fuel as far as gallons per tree, or barrels per acre? How about refining? Have you tried burning the oil in an oil lamp or furnace? Maybe a diesel engine? From there the possibilities become endless, maybe it can even be used to replace other petroleum based products, like plastic buckets. Thanks again for the non sarcastic reply;
Ken

georgeiii
Thank you, that was the last thing I ever expected. I will take it at face value, and hopefully we can get off to a new start. I too am only interested in disusing hydroponics, and plant related things. So let me apologize for my part as well. All I really want to do is share, and learn (and grow of coarse). So lets just try to learn what we can, and share with others what we can.

You have to understand my reasons for choosing the Barbados nut in the first place. Before we start talking about gallons per tree we have to talk about what limits production. What problem can be over come to increase cultural production of a wild plant. With Barbados nut moisture really is what gives the higher yield of seeds in it's natural environment. But, and this is a very big but because it's also sensitive to too much moisture and will rot as seed and plant if given too much. Combine that with low viability of seed germination and you see why many countries that are trying to grow it for oil are giving up because of that problem. This was meant as a way poor farmers could have to make a little extra money. After more than twenty years they still have the same problems with this plant. Cloning helps and has increased production but not enough to help on a global scale. We're limited by the amount of knowledge we have to work with. It's that knowledge thing that I went after. Common knowledge say this shouldn't work because too much moisture causes root rot. But suppose it's not the water intake that causes the rot. It's the way the plant adapts to it's environment that's the problem. Can I explain it? Sure. I think I just did. But do you understand what I mean. Anyway limiting factor of water is over come but making estimates on production is kind of sketchy because I only have in ground estimates to use. In ground it takes 18 months to produce the first seeds a little less than a half pound up to five pounds in 3 years. Cutting off mature plants take only 9 months remember a cutting takes on the same age as the plant your taking it from. After that it's really about growing conditions. But my growing conditions are different than they are in the field so it's all new. So I planted some in ground for test comparison. And there's a big difference. Especially if your doing cloning for added feedstock. In the Hydro-Pods and Hydro-Pails the plants and cuttings started showing branching within the first week. Now why is chlorsis important to cuttings because it allows regeneration of plant material using old plant material Just like you get cut and your body use more of you to replace what was cut. The outside haven't even shown branching yet,. The feedstock plants are the same size but aren't making regrowth at the same rate. Now before I put this in print it's just a prediction of the different rates of growth between the same plants in different mediums. (I'm guessing but the model proves out) In ground an acre will yield about 325 - 350 gallons of oil on average. I'll go out on a limb here and say I'll produce three times that amount. Now before you go all hockey puck on me let me explain my reasoning. This is not unheard of. This is what native farmers claim. They claim even higher yields but there's no proof because it's a wild plant. These are people who go out wandering looking for these plants because of native culture the plants and seeds are used for different things than just burning. Seasons are different there�s no collected information on culturing Barbados nut for mass production other than the word of native farmers. Farmers who say go out into the woods and every now and then you'll see. Well through God's good graces He's allowed me to see the first part of the answer to this tree at a time we really , really need it. It's the delivery system of water. Here's the thing that gives me that cold tingle inside. Using this model the first yield will be about 500 gallons per acre to start second year using 2,000 trees per acre. That will jump to 750 -1,000 gallons during the third and fourth year. This isn't taking into account that with proper moisture levels these trees go into contuious seed production . Nor is it taking into account the multilevel farming structures this will allow you to develop. So with my model you get 1,000 gallons per acre from 2,000 plants. Place that inside a 5 level structure and you get 5,000 gallons of bio-fuel twice a year or if it goes into continuous seed production who knows. Still give me that cold tingle.
Yes I've burned the oil using an old grape press and a nylon stocking for a fliter. It burns entirly clean with no ordor makes good soap and candles too.

Plumeria are the same way when it comes to moisture. They will start dropping all their leaves as soon as the roots begin to rot. If detected quickly they can be saved by transplanting into a dryer medium immediately. They will continue to drop leaves for a day or two but after that they recover rapidly and even seem to make up for lost time.
I also let my cuttings dry out for about a week before starting them. When I take the cuttings I remove the leaves to reduce sap loss, make a clean 45 degree cut, dip them in Dip'n Grow liquid rooting concentrate at 15x dilution rate, then dip the end in clean dry sand to promote callousing and store them for 5-10 days (2 weeks is supposed to be better but I can't wait that long). I have grown short cuttings about the length of yours but I find that the longer Plumeria cuttings branch off and flower sooner. I like them about 16-20 inches. The only set back to this is that the taller cuttings require support while the roots establish themselves. Do B-nut trees like full sun and high temps? I paint my cloning containers black to absorb heat. Plumeria love it. I tried cloning Plumeria in my ultrasonic cloner indoors with no success. Too much moisture, not enough heat and not enough natural full spectrum sunlight.

My question would be how much time does it take your lenght cuttings to start showing growth? Mine show growth the first 5 days. I only let mine wait about 4 hours. I do that to take advange of reverse osmosis. Yes they like high temps amd plenty of sunlight. But they don't need them to grow. Their quite happy in shade and 45 - 50 degrees. As long as there's no brezze.

I've made up the next set of Hydro-Pods. Last year I made 20. This year I'm going to try a hundred. The Pods will be mainly peppers. I'm tempted to grow them all now but thats too much set up. For now I'm growing the seedlings in a soil based mix which I'll change over in Feburary.