Yes, I haven't built it yet but it's on my list of things to do. If you want to send me a message to rocketman1022000@yahoo.com titled "Tower System" I can send you the 3D drawings that I drew up designing that one. Again I haven't built it yet, so I haven't settled on one design for the side tubes that hold the plants, but have a few ideas. Most likely I would just drill holes in the main tube with a regular hole saw. From there it can go different ways, and I don't know what type of tools you have access to.

But the two basic designs I have in mind for the side tubes, both involve grinding the edge of the piece of PVC that needs to fit in or on the main tube in order to get a flush fit. One design calls for the side tube to go through the hole and glued to the right angle. Although the side tube would go through the main tube, you would want it to not go through far at all.

The other design calls for the side tube to be angled to fit flush on the outside of the tube. Either way I would likely make a grinding wheel "with replaceable sandpaper" to fit a fitting for a drill and/or bench grinder to get the right angle every time. Then it's mostly just a mater of gluing them in place.

I have another idea as well that's simpler, but requires a bonding glue (other than PVC glue) that will bond and be durable enough. It doesn't require grinding the edge for a flush fit. But rather cutting at say a 30 to 45 degree angle down the side of a piece of tubing, then attaching it to the side of main tube. But depending on how this was done, it may need the hole in the main tube to be oblong in order for the baskets to be able to fit through the main tube. In this case I would create a template of the hole needed, then draw/trace it on the main tube where I needed, and cut it out with a rotary tool. For cutting the same 30 to 45 degree angles every time, making a simple jig is how I would do it.

Also in this case the glue will need to act as a caulking, because it wont have a flush fit giving enough surface area for PVC glue to bond with. I have yet to do any testing for a bonding glue that will work with PVC tubing, but I have some possibilities in mind. Even if I do decide to grind and glue with PVC glue, I would still add the bonding glue around the seems (both inside and out) for added durability. I have found in the heat of the desert where I live, PVC glue does not last when subjected to direct sun all summer. The first system I built I glued together using both primer and glue on clean PVC tubing, and at the end of the summer I was able to pull it apart with my hands (but there was no leaks).

Thanks, was thinking about it today and I might also try heating the PVC with a heat gun and pushing another piece of PVC or something with the diameter of a net pot though. The idea is that the net cup will fit flush and the PVC that is pushed through would hopefully cover only 2/3s or so of the netpot so no seals or glue to worry about. Anyway email sent.

organic_hydroguy
I would be happy to send you my drawings too, just send me a e-mail to rocketman1022000@yahoo.com with the title "tower system" It may be selfish but I don't feel like hosting pictures on a third party website in order to insert a link to them in this forum. All just because this forum software is so old it's not capable of simple uploading of files directly from my computer. But I'm happy to send pictures to people as attached files through e-mail, you can do what you want with them from there. I just need to know before you send the e-mail so I can delete all the messages out of that address first, or I'll simply never see it (that's my spam e-mail address). I have cleared everything out of it at this point and I'll keep checking it for 2-3 days. If someone sends me a e-mail to that address say a few weeks later when I'm not expecting it, I'll never see it no mater what the title is. That's why I don't mind posting it when I know it will result in more spam (and why I keep it).

bbrush
I have thought about doing something similar. But the problem I see is that the PVC wont stay molten/pliable enough very long, and the entire surface of both pieces to be fused together will need to be heated at the same time to do that, or it wont actually fuse together. If one part is cooler than the other when trying to fuse it together, it will create a week point that will tend to crack and separate later. I haven't really come up with an efficient way to do that effectively over and over. Also there is bound to be some trimming of mis-shaped areas that will be very difficult to get to and fix.

The smaller the baskets you intend to use, the smaller the supporting side tubes will need to be. Like 1 inch baskets would likely fit 1 inch inside diameter tubing (about 1 1/4 outside diameter). With two people, one heating each side simultaneously may work. But for larger baskets like 3 inch baskets the supporting side tube would require about a 3 inch inside diameter tube. Even with two people that would take some doing to heat all the surface area needed evenly, at the same time without a specially built setup. Also any mistake might ruin all the previous work, because there wont be any second chances to get it right.

But there's nothing like real trial and error, and working things out in real life. Any way you choose to go about it, I would suggest experimenting on a practice piece first to find out the pro's and con's, and work out the details. That's what I would do anyway. I would like to know how it works for you, and if you run into any unexpected problems, as well as if expected problems were easier than expected to deal with.

P.S. I got your e-mail, I will probably send the pictures later tonight. I want to add some text to the images first. I will be sending them from a different e-mail, but with the same title "Tower System."

This is a pod system built with 3 liter plastic soda bottles and PVC pipe. There's no pumping of water, no PH checking, no nutrient solution to work with or check on. Each pod is self contained. This systen allow for horizonal or vertical growing. You build the whole thing yourself in less than an hour. you can see the whole thing here under The Dark Garden Non-Nutrient Hydroponics

Georgeiii,
If they get rained on don't you have to flush the system?
Or is that just with the 5 gallon variety?

I made something similar by stacking square 7" pots inside each other offset by 45 degrees so the plants grow out of the corner of each bucket. I grew strawberries. You need to get the square pots that have the flattened corners so they will fit inside each other when offset by 45 degrees. I cut a round hole in the bottom of each square pot and ran a section of PVC vertically through the middle. I filled the pots with hydroton and rockwook croutons up 3/4 of the way, then added the next level (pot) until the unit was 4 high. The bottom square pot sits inside a 3-1/2 gallon bucket which collects the runoff and diverts it back to the reservoir. I used micro tubing to feed water/nutrient to each plant site (the corner of each sqauare pot, 4 per pot, except for the top pot which is open). I started out with only watering the top and letting the nutrient run down through the lower levels but found it worked better when I added more distribution tubes and supplied water to each plant.
What I made functions very similar to the vertigro system if you look that up you will have a better idea of what I am describing.

I'm thinking about this too for my lettuce and spinach "Nontraditional X-mas Tree". Hydroguy, sent you an email as other ideas would be greatly appreaciated! Instead of using PVC piping for the main system, I'm going to try stacking 6 gallon food grade buckets (sealed up so there will be no leaking between buckets, $2 a pop used with lids). After looking through a few videos of this system and the Future Growing website (link below), it looks like this system uses 2" net cups(about a quarter a pop) in a cupped protrusion, a series of "drip plates", and a reservoir with pump. The cupped protrusion I'm going to try making out of some PVC with putty, all on the outside of the bucket (I think the inside has no blocking to allow the roots to be dripped on). The net cup will rest in this so that the majority of the cup is inside the bucket. 12 sites in the top 3 buckets (the bottom is just a reservoir) will give me 36 growing sites, but I may only use half so that one side can be facing a wall and the other facing a light. Any thoughts on the drip plate? Right now I'm thinking just a series of 1/4" holes in the bucket lid and bottom. I have an old QuietOne pump that will more than handle the 4 bucket height and is easly attached to a 3/4" PVC pipe. Thoughts on this set up? It certainly would be inexpensive and amazing if I could get it working. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Here is a link that might be useful: Tower Garden Makers

taobass thats the same system as the video in that link I posted.

I missed that they had a link to the makers in that post and thought it might be a useful page, especially the "How it Works" under the linked info page for anyone considering building something like this. Sorry to be redundant. Thanks for posting those photos! I'd been watching the videos over and over and pausing them to get a good look. I'm going to pick up the last few parts tomorrow and hopefully have my version 0.1 test model up and running this weekend and will share some pictures and my experiences. For now it is pretty modular so if anyone has any other suggestions, please speak up before the buckets get sealed! I'm still pretty new to hydroponics but have had great luck with my DWC peppers and want to give something else a shot. :)

no it didn't have a link, I didn't even know who made the system in that link I gave, so thanks :)

Can't see anything wrong with your design, would attempt something similar myself, but a similar bucket where I live would cost $20 and would be such poor quality that it would split as soon as a drill touched it.

I think I will use 250mm pvc pipes cut into 500mm lenghts with sockets joining them, will also buy a sheet of flat pvc and cut 250mm circles to use as the "drip plate" and glue one to each socket.

Not sure how I will make the net pot holder though.

bbrush - The key to cheap/free buckets (at least in the US) is finding a large cafeteria (hospital, prison, University, grade school) that has food shipped to them in the buckets and throws them away afterward. The ones I use held 6 gallons of tomato soup so I know they are food grade and water tight. Not only are you getting something useful on the cheap but you're also diverting things from the waste stream. Today I'll be experimenting with 2" (~50mm) PVC slices epoxied down with Aquamend putty to make the net pot holders. I know this putty is fairly safe as it is used in salt water tanks that are sensitive to chemicals. I'll let you know how it goes! :)

taobass
I had never herd of Aquamend putty, I'm real interested in how well it works over the long run. I have used a lot of different epoxies and most stick great at first but on smooth plastics tend to separate after a while, especially from food grade type of plastics because they have stain resisters in them. The stain resisters keep stains from bonding to the plastic, but it keeps most everything else from doing the same as well.

I may get some soon to try and test, That may be the bonding glue I'm looking for if it bonds to all types of plastics, including PVC and 5 gallon buckets. Of coarse I'm only cautiously optimistic, because I have found very little that will totally bond with plastics like that. I have even tried JB weld. Although I have not tried it on PVC or the 5 gal buckets, but I have tested it on a flexible Tupperware lid. After about 4 days when I knew it was completely cured, it still easily pealed off.

P.S. I agree those are great places to get free buckets. I usually look through the dumpsters for what they have thrown away. But I think you were eluding to just going in and asking them to save them for you, that's an even better idea. Although I'm sure you need to promptly pick them up when you say your going to because they just don't have room to store their trash for people, and if you don't they are likely just going to toss them, and wont save them for you in the future.

When I worked for a kyak company, we would weld holes in the boats with strips of plastic from scraps of the same material. you heat up the plastic and basically melt it together. Basically welding them to make a single unit.
You might try something along those lines.
I suspect most kyak/outdoor shops, if there's one close, could show you how its done. At least around here, the local shops can make those repairs.

Sorry grizz I posted an answer that seems to have dissappeared. Anyway It's really only the vegetables that have to be flushed. Tropicals and flowering plants seem to do alright.

OK. Thanks.

grizzman
Welding the plastic together would be the best way to go. Though I'm sure that the type of plastic is important to the technique, and I would be mostly working with PVC. I have welded/fused small pieces of PVC together with luck, but for larger pieces, I just cant see it being successful with consistency, and without making a special rig to do the job. From my experience, you have about less than 60 seconds to fuse two pieces of melted PVC together, or it wont likely bond well. But again That's just my experience, and I'm no expert.

I have not looked in the phone book for kyak company's, so I don't know if we even have one here in town (I haven't seen one around here), but we live near a lake so it is possible there is one, and it's always worth a try asking them. For me, when it comes to using buckets, most of my ideas would involve fusing two different types of plastics together. I usually do this with bulkhead fittings/through holes with O-rings for the seal.

The down side is that limits me to the bottom of the buckets where there's a flat surface. The sides of the buckets are rounded, and wont have a good seal without something else to fill in the gaps. Silicone will bond to smooth plastics, but is not real durable. If you wind up twisting the bulkhead fitting for some reason, like taking off the tubing, the silicone is week and will likely break the seal, causing leaks. And because the sides of the buckets are rounded, you cant tighten down plastic bulkhead fittings as much as you can on a flat surface (at least not without damaging them), so it wont be tight enough eather.

homehydro,
You may consider using a threaded hose barb (hose barb on one side and threads on the other - usually 1/2" or 3/4") instead of the tank barb. The barbs I use are $0.50 each and can be screwed into the curved or flat side of the bucket. Toro makes them in straight and 90 degree elbows and sells them at the big lot home improvement stores.
I have been very successful using a 1/2" and 3/4" NPT (National Pipe Thread) tap (about $10 at hardware store) to thread the holes I have made in buckets and PVC that I screw the hose barbs into. With a little Teflon tape I have had great luck doing this and very little or no leaking. With the buckets since they are a lot thinner than the PVC, I sometimes screw a plastic wing nut onto the threads from the inside once the barb has been threaded into the bucket to get a more secure fit. This helps prevent it being torn out, and to tighten up/prevent leaks.

If you wanted to use something like a 4" or 6" diameter PVC Pipe as your tower you could thread in some 45 degree or 90 degree elbows with a 1/2" or 3/4" male portion you could thread into the vertical pipe. Then you could use reduction coupling to increase the 3/4" to 1" or 2" (all threaded). Then the net pot sits inside the 1" or 2" coupling. I saw someone selling something similar on E-bay, but looked again just now and did not see it. Anyway, they were able to make a tower garden as pictured above using PVC pipe and fittings and everything was threads and no glue or adhesive was use. I suspect all the fittings could get expensive, so if messing around with glue and melting/fusing plastics together does not work, this may be another option.
-SDGrower

I wasn't thinking of welding pvc. I was more referring to welding platic buckets (similar to paint buckets) They are made of HDPE plastic and most can be welded with very good bonds. you don't heat each and stick them together. you heat them butting each other then work the plastic "solder" into the joint to fuse them. Very similar to jewelry welding if you've ever seen that done.
Also, for bulkhead fittings, I usually use male and female threded pvc fittings with round black O-rings (like used in sinks)
Here is a picture of one in a 5 gallon bucket from wal mart:

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Thanks grizzman,
I can see it possible with plastic buckets. Although I have never really thought about trying it. I have seen jewelry made many years ago. I mentioned before I took ceramics in high school, and during advanced ceramics class (I took 4 times) the teacher also taught a second class in the same room at the same time. A jewelry class where he spent most of his time. He would just give us an assignment at the beginning of the week, then we would just make what we wanted even if it wasn't the given assignment, as long as we were doing something he didn't care. I often saw what they were doing but don't remember much other than they would make a casting out of wax, then encase it in plaster or something. Then heat it to get the wax out of it, in order to pour the metal in the mold.

But from the way you explained it it sounds like pluming. I have done that many times before, getting the solder in joint between two pieces of copper tubing. In fact I'm going to need to do that exact thing again shortly to change the two outside water faucets. Although I have never herd of a type of plastic solder. Is it easy to get, and what type of heat source is used?

I to have used both male and female threaded PVC fittings to make a bulkhead fitting on the bottoms of 2 gallon paint buckets. But the only ones that I have seen (that fit together anyway), the male end is tapered. So the female end only goes on so far before it gets to tight to go any ferther. I have used spacers to remedy that problem though. In the picture it looks like a fairly good seal but doesn't it need help from something other than the O-ring to make it water tight because of the curve? Unless it's a real thick O-ring (rubber gasket etc.) there must be some gap right?

sdgrower
Thanks, I have lots of the threaded/barbed fittings although I have never tried to tap and thread it into the side of a bucket. I just use them to connect my vinyl tubing to PVC tubing. Depending on the situation that might be useful. Although instead of a plastic wing nut, I would probably use the threaded PVC connector on the inside to clamp it down tight (like a bulkhead fitting), I could always just cut off any part of it I don't need.

What I have in mind for the main tower is a minimum of 8 inch PVC tube, but most likely 12 inch. The pluming supply houses in town carry all sizes and one sells it by the foot (the other sells 20 foot sections). Depending on the plants and basket sizes, I would want 2 or 3 inch PVC tubing for the side tubes. I have a lot of 3 inch baskets, but it depends on what plants I decide to grow in it (as well as the future plants). The elbows wont work for what I have in mind without modification. Basically I need a straight piece of tubing to start with, or the baskets wont be able to go past the elbow/bend. Therefore wouldn't be able to get misted on from the mister heads. My baskets have a small lip, so there wouldn't be any modifications or stoppers to keep the baskets in place.

It would get quite expensive for 2 or 3 inch elbow fittings in comparison. I don't remember for sure but even 2 inch fittings are more than $1 each if I remember correctly. But a 10 foot piece of 2 inch PVC only costs about $4. That 10 foot piece of tubing will make 30 4 inch long pieces that I would use for the side tubes that hold the baskets. I still would need to make each of them the right shape, but that wont be hard to do. I just need to make a drum sander (wheel sander). Just using a piece of tubing the same size as the main tube (12 inch tube), attaching it to a lathe or drill to spin it. Then covering it with sand paper. All I would need to do is cut out some of the bulk of the side tubing (so there's less sanding to so), and grind it down. At that point I would have the perfect shape, and angle to glue to the main tube for a flush fit every time.

Considering that each main tube depending on the size of the baskets I decide to go with, and height of the tower there would be quite of a lot of side tubes to do, so replicating it is an important factor to me. PVC glue is not expensive and is easy to use. But I would still want to make the connections stronger. I don't know what made me think of it, but I also thought about using a glue gun today. I used to have one but don't know where it is. Glue guns are less than $10 and the glue sticks are cheep as well. I just need to test it on PVC to see how well it bonds, but if it does work that's the cheapest option yet. Other inexpensive options I plan to test include things like different types of "liquid nails". Although most wont cure properly if the solvents cant evaporate. Non pours materials wont allow that evaporation. But it would still be expose to the air for evaporation because the seam would be glued together with PVC glue. Only the outer edge would be glued with the liquid nails (glue gun etc.), like caulking the edge of a counter top. So I'm guessing it would cure but just take longer.

I would also use a sanding sponge (a sponge with sand glued to it) to clean the edges before using the glue gun or liquid nails etc. before gluing. That will clean the surface (of excess PVC glue etc.), also it would scuff up the surface and create a better bond.

I always thought PVC glue actually welds PVC together anyway and doesn't actually "glue it", perhaps try a different brand homehydro as I have never had problems with heat and where I grow is pretty much 100+ for 3 months of the year, as I am writing this it is about 70 outside.

Yes I have always been under the impression that PVC glue chemically fuses (melts) both pieces together also. I don't have any real explanation as to why it was able to come apart, that is the first time that has ever happened to me. I am just assuming that it was because it spent two summers in our heat, and direct sunlight. One summer with plants in it, the other on the side of the house.

But you are right, it may not have had much or anything to do with the heat. I know there are different types of PVC glue and primers, and it's entirely possible that I used one that was not compatible, either with the type of PVC, or with the particular primer. I don't usually pay that much attention to reading the labels because I have never had a problem before.

Also to Be honest I always leave my PVC glue in the garage where it's subjected to the temperature extremes as well. Sometimes it gets thick and begins to dry out even with the lids on tight. It was so long ago I don't remember if they were new containers of PVC glue, or old ones. That may have been a problem also.

homehydro;
What you described your teacher doing is called casting. he's actually producing a piece of jewelry. I was referring to the repair process. It happens to be very similar to what you're doing with copper. I find it terribly interesting a HS teacher had a class to teach jewelry casting. That's pretty impressive. The only reason I know of such things is my mother had a jewelry business for years.
The "solder" I mentioned is not actually a solder at all. you just get a piece of scrap plastic and cut a 8" or so strip to use. (maybe 1/8" wide). Sorry to confuse. the bond was similar to a soldered bond that's why the reference.
at the kyak company we used something that looked like a soldering iron only it had a big hole throught the length of it. through the hole air was blown that got heated by the heating element. A possibly more available option would be to use a small butane torch.

The secret to the pvc bulkhead is inside the female piece is a preinstalled gasket. you have to remove that so the male piece can screw in far enough. the O ring on the outside is the only gasket in the configuration. it's less than 1/8" think and you get them at the hardware store for about $2 for 10 of them. They're usually in the same general area as the pvc fittings over by the sink repair stuff. just take the male fitting with you and find the one that fits.
The O ring just gets more compressed at the apex of the curve. the real trick is you have to turn the end thats not touching the O ring. if you turn the one that is, you end up turning the O ring and causing it to move. This can make the seal not work, though won't always.

homehydro,

I understand what you are making now and see the challenge using the elbows (along with the cost). It is pretty cool the place by you sells the PVC by the foot, that is pretty uncommon, especially for the larger stuff.
You probably already know this, but when you use PVC glue you need to make sure you use the primer first. The primer actually chemically softens the PVC so the glues can make the chemical bond/weld between the two pieces of PVC better. If you go to an irrigation store opposed to Home Depot/Lowes they will even have some clear glue that may be nice to use on your experiment depending on how nice you want it to look. They also sell specialty glues that will bond PVC to other materials such as poly pipe and maybe even HDPE. Looking forward to hearing about how it comes out!

grizzman
I don't know how he came about teaching the jewelry class, I just always thought it was normal. He was a real laid back nice teacher that everybody liked though. I took ceramics because my (older) best friends were. Ed was the oldest and Jim's best friend, Joe was my best friend and Jim' brother, so we all hung out together. Although I never had a ceramics class with ED because he graduated before I got up to the advanced class. But me Jim and Joe all had ceramics together for about 2 years. It was a large room/building and the teacher did not need to help the advanced class much, so that gave him plenty of time to teach the other class at the same time. The advanced class was just before lunch on purpose, that allowed us to stay in class during lunch if we wanted to.

The building was at the far end of campus, so we often would send one or two people with a list to the cafeteria 5-10 minuets early (so they could be first in line) to buy lunch for everybody and bring it back to class. The teacher would eat lunch in the inner hallway (teachers office) that connected to all the classrooms in the building, so he was always near by. We were all friends and it wasn't even like being in school there. We would even play hacky sack just outside the dubble doors by the kiln during class if we had nothing to do. As long as we created something (to the best of our ability) by the end of the week, he was cool with that.

Well back to hydroponics,
I will have to look around for the exact fittings you use I guess. I don't remember ever seeing any threaded female fittings with a a pre-installed gasket. Not with the 1/2 inch and 3/4 inch tube fittings anyway. From what you explain about twisting it on and the O-ring moving, it sounds like it's a bit temperamental to get it on right. I am not sure if you do this or if it helps in what you are referring to. But in situations where a O'ring or gasket could wind up binding I usually lube them to help keep them from binding. But I want to try your PVC bulkhead, that could prove to be very useful in situations.

As for the plastic welding/fusing, that makes scene. I imagine that both pieces that are being connected as well as the strip should be of the same type of plastic for a good weld. I have a propane torch for soldering copper pluming, but the small butane torches are not that expensive. I had one once but for some reason refilling it was a real pain, I know I must have been doing something wrong but never figured it out. It sounds like what you used at the kyak company was like a paint stripper, just with a much smaller tip. I wonder if I could modify a paint stripper that way. Because most any plastic is highly flammable, and likely to catch fire and turn black if you are not careful with a flame.

I've built the main section of my tower (from buckets) and used aquarium/food grade silicone to "glue" bucket lids to the bottom of each bucket (except my bottom reservoir bucket). These are the food grade buckets with plastic gaskets on the inside of the lid and about 8 sections that snap down to form a tight seal. I've taken the buckets on and off about a dozen times and while I think it is important to be careful while doing this, have so far seen no breaks in the seal and it has worked wonderfully (passing my initial few water tests). I've drilled everything and worked up some plumbing to control the amount of water that makes it to the top of the tower and now, my only remaining steps are to 1) finish each grow site 2)Figure out a way to have the pump on for 3 minutes and then off for 12 minutes, and 3) put some plants in with lights on them and see how well it works!

The grow sites are, as discussed above, tricky. My current solution that seems to work quite well is using 4oz yogurt cups (such as Dannon's Activia) and cutting the bottom off the cup. There is a lip on the top of the yogurt cup that I put a few dabs of silicone on and it forms a nice tight seal around the rounded bucket and is rather snug in a 2" hole. The 2" net cup then rests inside of the cup (again, it is a bit snug) and a 2" circle of neoprene acts as a collar which will both help support the plant and keep the water inside the system. The 4 bucket tower rests in a 27 gallon tough tote to increase the reservoir and enhance stability as you don't want the tower falling over! The added benefit of the base is that any water that does manage to splash out and run down the side falls back into the reservoir. Once I feel that this version 1.0 works well, I'll post some more detailed and more coherent directions on how this was done, as well as a parts list/estimated cost.