I highly agree. I have far way to many plants that bloom in June and early July. I'm dividing giving away lot of them in spring. Planting more aster and mums. ++++ many direct seeded annuals like zinnias. For penneys got blooms all season long-until killing frost. Then I collected seeds. Not planting containers plants that I have deadhead every other day.Planting burning bushes for fall color.

Hi - I'm new to the Iowa Gardening Forum tho have asked lots of ????? to other specific plant threads, after I discovered GardenWeb just this summer. I've been reading some of the threads in this forum and had a lot of laughs and fun and most importantly, got schooled in gardening & gardening problems, etc. quite a bit more. Many thanks to all of you!

I just planted more daffodils as the squirrels don't seem to enjoy digging them up. I do agree with you Ironbelly, about bulbs, to a certain extent - tulips ... not only make our patches look 'ratty' they even do fizzle out after a while. AND can't agree with you more on Prairie plants that puts on a double feature show - they are magnets to those beautiful 'flying flowers' etc. and do stretch colors, scents and blooms until our killing frosts ... when finally, the bells of Winter is tolled!

Since you seem to be one of the 'garden gurus' in our Iowa Forum, I thought to post my ??? in your freshly posted "Thoughts ...." (I'm not computer savyy and DK how to post a ?). Are there any Hydrangea afficionados to answer ??? about 'overwintering ideas' in our zone? I just got bitten by the addicting 'H bug' and am interested if anyone has an ' H quercifolia (oakleaf)'?

Oh, many thanks for the tutorial on moles, voles, squeanies & coons - my neighbor has 2 sizes of traps and takes the pain of releasing his hostages at a river near by. The draw back: cats and birds took their chances on the baits too and so did my sweet little Papillon named Doozee, once!!!

Will appreciate feed back on Hydrangeas!
Ditas

Welcome to the Iowa Gardening Forum. Im glad that you have the enthusiasm to learn. Sadly, too many begin gardening with an enthusiasm to purchase; which is only yet another manifestation of a person lacking self-control. Good gardening is all about knowledge, thinking and control. Many blather on about "natural" gardening; failing to realize that is an oxymoron. To be fair, I believe what they are really trying to say is that they do not want a formal garden. Gardening is not a natural act. Rather, it is one of extreme control of the natural to the extent that is possible. The art of gardening comes from exercising that control without ostensively exposing it.

Hydrangeas are not a plant that I claim extensive expertise. However, there are reports of good things to be expected in the future from the University of Minnesota. Hydrangeas are really more of a southern plant with some notable exceptions. The plants that really get everyone drooling are the lacecaps and mopheads that we cannot grow. Either they will be outright killed by our cold temperatures or the top growth will be winter killed to the ground. Although the plants may not die, they will not bloom either because they bloom on old (second year) wood.

Annabelle is a notable exception because it blooms on both old and new wood one of the reasons that I grow this one. If the plant gets winter killed back to the ground, it will still bloom. Also, this cultivar has other exceptional traits that make it a good choice for Iowans. Endless Summer is another recent introduction that has garnered some apparently well-deserved attention; although it is one that I do not grow. You may also wish to explore some of the Pee Gee hydrangeas.

Although slow to mature, I am quite enamored with my oakleaf hydrangea. It adds grand, unusual leathery foliage that deserves inclusion in ones garden even if it never bloomed. Another slow to establish hydrangea that I plan to site on a newly constructed pergola is the climbing, Hydrangea petiolaris.

Im sure that there are others on this forum that can make additional suggestions. In fact, there is even a Hydrangea Forum here on the GardenWeb. One thing that I would encourage is to make informed decisions. There is no shortage of websites and cyber-information available on this subject. There is also a ton of misinformation. Do your research. I have to be very careful about siting hydrangeas on my property because I am on the edge of the open prairie. Having a bunch of plants that get wind beaten like an old flag does not make a lot of sense. Therefore, wind tolerance is a factor of heightened concern for me.

IronBelly

Many thanks for responding - I did my search and lead me to the Hydrangea Forum where dedicated H enthusiasts and experts have generously and patiently responded to my questions. I have learned so much just reading through the many threads from past years - overwintering, bloom tender ones, in particular - I own a 16y/o Mother's Day - florist Nikko H that bloomed only 3 or 4 times over the years. I guess I'm taking an extra step, in my new found interest in this genus, by looking for enthusiasts to learn from, right in Iowa where zone & situations are more alike.

I'm very curious about your H quercifolia as I would like to put one in a semi-shady spot in the back border of our yard. I understand that they are indeed bloom tender. Do you take special steps to overwinter yours?

Coinsidentally, last Sept I planted an H petiolaris to cover up (eventually) a newly redone (3.5X36ft) retaining wall. I was fortunate enough to find a 3.5gal one (half price-fall sale) at a local nursery. Encouraged by an enthusiast's experience - she patiently responded with tips, complete with great photos in different stages of growth - an excellent 'step by step' guide that other enthusiasts commended her for, and thought should be "a tutorial to be referred to for Climbing H".

Gardening is a very ephemeral hobby and the years change situations - I have dug up to relocate more plants, chasing after sun & shade, to ease over-crowding or correct mistakes, etc, etc!!! In my piece of soil under our IOWA skies Angels are remembered both heavenly and earthly ... my oasis.

Hi again Ironbelly - Good AM! Sorry, 'forgot to thank you for the Iowa Horticulture link - very helpful for future Hydrangea planting plans!!!

By the way - to pick your expertise again - in the spot I am thinking to plant a quercifolia H I have many Hostas and the slugs simply love them - I plan to dig up a few ... serving them beer daily can be old and besides, the bunnies are helping themselves to the brew - they get stone drunk and can't run fast enough away, from predators in the area. I have bagged & disposed a few and that gets old pretty fast too. A plant nursery I deal with, suggested 'Slug -Go' ... claimed safe for kids household pets and birds alike and renders slugs sterile ... what say you??? Would it render moles & voles sterile too if they take liberties on it?

Appreciate your wisdon on this!

As to your query about Hydrangea quercifolia, I have mine snuggled up against the north side of my home, in an area protected from the wind.

Of course, it is recommended that it be sited in a protected area. Contrary to popular belief, the north side of a building generally provides better winter conditions than a southern side. While it certainly is true that the south side of your home gets warmer than the north side, that is also the problem.

Many mistakenly believe that plants are "winter killed" by cold temperatures. While this can be the case, it is usually the exception unless a plant, totally inappropriate for your hardiness zone is chosen. Excessive wetness (crown rot) is usually the winter culprit. Some times excessive dry conditions are to blame if we have a really dry fall and supplemental water is not given particularly with evergreens. For the north/south side issue, the real culprit is not low temperatures but rather huge, daily temperature swings. On calm winter days, the temperature may get up to 70 degrees on the southern side of a house while the real temperature in exposed areas is well below freezing. At night, the temperature on the south side is essentially the same as everywhere else. Sometimes the day to night temperature swings can exceed 100 degrees! In the case of woody plants, they dont know what to do. They can actually attempt to go in and out of dormancy and that is the real killer. The temperatures on the north side are much more stable; which suits the plants a whole lot better.

*****************

The slug bait products will do nothing to moles. They are insectivores and have no interest in grain-based baits. It will have no effect on voles either because the molluskicide in Slug-go is pretty selective.

IronBelly

Hi Ironbelly -Many thanks for your tips on North versus South exposure for marginal hardiness, plants - makes a lot of sense.

On another subject - I hope you won't mind my asking in this more recent thread - I can't seem to find the one where you wrote a warning on Dame's Rocket as a response to a gardener's search for one.

Last Spring I found my back, sunny border, patch beautifully blooming, among many others, with all shades of what I thought were wild Phlox - it was gloriously beautiful with the wafts of heavenly scent. I pruned them down to a foot after their best blooms were done. The peripheral limbs burst into wonderful blooms again & others have sent clusters that bent to the ground to root. Last month I tried to minimize the invasion by digging up and discarding. However in my thrill to have such a beautiful blooming perennial I shared some of my diggings with garden friends.

Having very recently, read your warning about this, quite invasive (that I thought were Phlox) Dame's Rocket, I warned my friends to prune after the blooms to prevent seeding. Today, I dug up more volunteers and just left a manageable few. Can we still enjoy this delightful perennial without causing damage to our prairie? What has MN done to control its invasion. I have read that CO has Dame's Rocket in their forbidden perennial list.

Many thanks in advance for your response!

Ditas,

You have really opened a "sticky wicket" with the topic of invasive plants. There are opinions all over the board on this topic. I will offer mine even though Im sure not everyone will concur.

Let me preface this by saying we should all be compelled to assume personal responsibility for our actions. Flittering through life with nary a care for downstream consequences is not only irresponsible, it is intellectually lazy. My pet gardening peeve is some nimrod authoritatively proclaiming, "In gardening, as long as you like it, that is all that matters." What a self-righteous load of hog hooey! Typhoid Mary used essentially the same argument to "justify" her actions.

I am certainly in favor of retaining all the rights of citizenship. I am dead set against the politically correct crowd. I do not want a proliferation of plant police. However, with rights come responsibilities. My personal approach to the invasive plant problem is to become informed, inform others and error on the side of caution.

Invasiveness is a regional thing. What is invasive here may be quite well-behaved in other areas and vice versa. In the case of Dames Rocket (and many others), if you cant easy find a better plant to replace it, it speaks loudly to ones lack of gardening skills. We all have made errors in judgment. It behooves us to amend those errors.

Before we jump on the home gardener too harshly, it should be pointed out that an estimated 80% of the really problematic, invasive thugs have been introduced by the various departments of natural resources and conservation! The list is long: Kudzu, Multiflora Rose, Russian Olive, Crown Vetch, etc., etc. The stuff that the "experts" once encouraged us to plant has become some of our biggest scourges. However, after their goof became apparent, they did assume responsibility for some particularly difficult eradication tasks. The problem is that "the cat" is darn difficult to put back in the bag once you have let him out Need I point out the problems with purple loosestrife (Lythrum salicaria), an ornamental that escaped the home garden?

I believe in leading by example. I no longer grow things like Dames Rocket, Barberry bushes and Burning Bush (Euonymus alata). I destroyed the ones that I used to grow long ago. If you were to visit my gardens, I dont think you would notice their absence.

Responsibility is a choice.

IronBelly

***Hi Ironbelly - I felt scolded and chastised but not offended, just a bit more schooled and wish to thank you your prompt response sent me to do a search both from my garden journal (have kept notes and plant tags/seed pockets in a now very thick ring binder, since the mid-80s) and from the internet. In gardening, sometimes the 'book is judged by its cover', so to speak irresistible beauties in nature melt our hearts and we often forget our better sense. Id like to think that I have been a fairly responsible backyard gardener. In my attempt to create a friendly garden for birds, butterflies and other good backyard critters, I have unsuspectingly and inadvertently committed some garden errors. In the same token, the beauty of this hobby and its ephemeral nature, one can remedy without much pain.

I traced back Dames Rocket that flourished in my Butterfly Patch, from a pocket of American Wildflower Mixture' that I dispersed in the Fall of 1989. I dont remember having seen the plant burst out of the ground as did the Columbine, Cone Flower, Coreopsis, Allyssum, Yarrow etc, etc. at time she recently just emerged (season 2004) & started spreading since and now knowing what I know, may have caused the disappearance of some less aggressive perennials I added in the patch. The noxious beauty, may have been introduced in my side of the fence, by my neighbor, as he too, thought Dame's Rocket to be Wild Phlox consequently, The case of the migrant Dame). By the way, we discussed our problem at hand.

In my frantic effort to learn more about Noxious Wildflowers/plants, I logged on to NRCS State of IOWA list I was surprised to find Dame's Rocket missing from the recently updated list!

Never the less, I made prints of, Univ of Wisconsin article on Dames Rocket (by Susan Mahr) to enclose in the holiday greetings cards I am mailing to my gardener friends, that I've shared rooted/potted Dames Rockets with.

Im glad for my newly acquired knowledge on Noxious Wildflowers thanks for the push!!! I think this important so I took a bit of time from this very, very busy season of putting the bloom-tender bushes & gardenbeds for Winter nap, Thanksgiving holiday & now getting ready for Christmas, to do the reseach on 'DAME'S ROCKET!

Happy Holidays to you and yours!!!

Ditas

Just a quick, helpful note on plant id:

All flowers from the Phlox genus (67 species & hundreds of cultivars) have five petals. Dame's Rocket has only four petals.

IronBelly

And yet here is Dames Rocket aka Sweet Rocket being sold in a seed catalog I received yesterday with nary a warning such as "cannot be shipped to ...." which helps tip you off that there's a problem. Not even a blurb in the ad copy as to self seeds freely. How do they get away with selling and shipping a noxious weed across state lines? Maybe it isn't officially on the list in WI where the catalog came from but this is irresponsible. I was the OP asking for white dames rocket seeds before I knew better.

Maria

RE: DAME'S ROCKET

Hi Maria - I'm glad you hopped on this thread and am hoping that others will too, to keep discussions alive and awareness & solutions offered to the unsuspecting, that will lead to saving our prairie from eventual degradation - possibly be "injurious to the environment" in our State!

Just last night I finished writing a few notes to my garden friends that I have shared troublesome Miss 'D Rocket AKA Sweet Violet' to enclose with the print-out of U of WI article in the X'mas cards to be mailed today - I have suggested, to wait for the blooms in Spring, to finally judge, if the rooted seedlings I shared are indeed the noxious weed that I just very recently became aware of (4 petals vs 5 of Phlox's & D R's toothed lanceolate leaves vs smoothe of the Phlox). I especially & strongly warned the ones with borders surrounded by woods, due to this weed's prolific habit of dispersing seeds and not enough birds to forage for natural control!

Again thanks for your concern too. Perhaps we can write to the seed companies including Dame's Rocket in their packet mixes, distributed to the States which lists such noxious weeds. It is bad enough that such plants are prolific and known to 'hop fences' so to speak.

Ditas

Those wanting mophead, coloured hydrangeas should consider the new varieties that bloom on new wood; Endless Summer was the first. It has the reputation of being weak-stemmed, and of flopping in the hot sun. My plantings seemed to verify these weaknesses, but it may just be a matter of a shrub which grows too much for it's root system at first; this year, their third year in the garden, they were much sturdier, with much less tendency to wilt. The even newer Forever and Ever series from Lowes also bloom on new wood, and there is some early information that they are shorter, sturdier, more floriferous, and less likely to wilt than Endless Summer. I just planted mine this summer, so can't comment. If you have a Nikko, rip it out, unless you like it as a foliage plant, or you want to build a big box and fill it full of leaves every winter (too much work for me). There are more macrophyllas coming that will also bloom on new wood, so soon they may be as ubiquitous here as they are in the south, though smaller.

I just caught this thread on Dame's Rocket, and thought I recognized the common name, but wasn't sure. Interesting to note that Hesperis matronalis/Dame's Rocket, is a plant that I have tried to get established several times here in northern California/Berkeley, and it never amounted to much of anything, and certainly didn't reseed itself or act as a perennial. Just goes to show that weeds are not universally weedy across the country! On the other hand, if we want to talk about weedy, I could mention Calla lilies, Oxalis pes-capri, and a multitude of other colorful blooming things that once set lose in the typical California garden, are hell to get rid of!