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TomCat Mole Killer?
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Posted by katefisher Z8_NorthernCA (My Page) on Tue, May 30, 06 at 10:53
| Well as of yesterday I discovered evidence of our first annual visit from the moles. I'm trying to deal with this in an adult rational way this year so read about a product called 'TomCat Mole Killer' and am wondering if anyone has experience this this product. Thanks.
Kathryn |
Here is a link that might be useful: Tom Cat Mole Killer
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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| Tomcat is made by Bell Laboratories. They make the same thing in pellets and other formulations. That this particular product is shaped like an unnatural colored worm is meaningless. Just a gimmick. The product is highly toxic to people and pets and therefore must be only used in the underground tunnel of the mole where nothing else can eat it. World Health Organization lists the active ingredient as extremely hazardous and the US EPA lists it as highly toxic. It is a single dose poison capable of killing children and pets. What all this means is if you have tried less toxic means of controlling the problem and they have all failed, this means is certain to kill the moles dead as dead gets ASSUMING they eat it. The worm shape is a gimmick. Moles may not be the brightest critters around, but they can smell the difference between a worm and a chemical stick. If this is the way you have chosen, see if you can't save yourself some money and skip the worm shape, just get the toxin. The ad for the product touts the worm shape as something revolutionary. If so, then why does the same company make it as pellets which the ad for this product says is ineffective? |
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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| Username_5 is incorrect. I work for Tomcat so I am speaking with some knowledge. Here's the deal. Moles are insectivores, and get 90% of their digestive needs from earthworms (the other 10% is grubs and the like). We have/had over 300 moles in captivity in our faculity. Bromethalin (the active ingredient - Poison) is extremely toxic. Moles have high motabilism -- so high that they eat about 80% of their body weight in food (again mainly earthworms) a day. Most poisons work too slowly to kill a mole (moles excrete it before it is absorbed into their system). Bromethalin works on a cellular level - so works quickly. The reason it is listed by the organizations listed is because it is toxic and it does not have an antidote. One worm can/will kill one mole. Please know that 6 worms will not kill a normal sized dog -- more would, but we chose 6 for the public for two reasons. 1. It will treat a normally sized yard and 2. Not enough to kill pets. We have scientific data to show that the Tomcat Mole Killer is the only bait that works .... period. Because it is the only bait moles will eat -- the earthworm shape is not a gimmick it is essential. Now -- the best question username_5 pointed out..." why does the same company make it as pellets which the ad for this product says is ineffective?" This is tricky -- the straight forward answer -- The zinc phosphide pellets work great for Gophers, rats, mice -- i.e. rodents. But it won't work on moles. It is difficult for laymen to tell the difference between a mole hill/mound/run and a gopher's. Therefore, if someone wants to spend the $5 for the pellets vs the $18 for the worms, we didn't feel we should take the pellets off the market. I hope that all makes sense. Thanks! tim |
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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| Take a cottonball, dip it in ammonia, place in hole, and moles will move on. Works for me. You can leave the cottonball in the hole since ammonia is basically nitrogen and the cottonball will biodegrade. I had a serious problem in a raised garden bed atop a rock wall. They made this 150 feet long and 5 feet deep garden their home. Until I put those balls in there. |
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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| Tim, Thank you for your response, I am all for research. The problem is I see the mounds, but can't seem to find the holes. Are they around the mounds? So, if I find a hole, do you drop the worm in or do you need to push it in, away from the surface? I do have two dogs, well only one that does a good job and killing them, and a cat that is a REALLY good varmit killer, mostly moles, and I don't want them to get ahold of the poison, even if it doesn't kill them. Could you give me tips on success and I will go out and try it. I have already done the gum and cat doodoo and urine, but I am losing the battle. |
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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| Okay -- so you see mounds, but not surface "runs" in the yard? Mounds are normally signs of deep tunnels (which would be a mole). So, please let me know if you also have surface runs, or if you only have mounds. We'll go from there. Thanks tim |
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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| I have runs and mounds. The mounds are hard as a rock, I would have thought that the mounds might be where they emerged? |
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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| I have no doubt that Tomcat works IF the mole eats it, but why would it eat a chemical concoction? Aren't they mostly blind and thus unable to see the shape? It seemingly wouldn't smell like a worm or grub. Moleman http://www.themoleman.com/news.html and others say this stuff doesn't work, and only trapping really works on moles. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if it did work, but I'm unconvinced. |
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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| Fatso, "IF a mole eats it, but why would it eat a chemical concoction..." My company is the world leader in Rodent Control, with an 80% market share. I tell you this because mouse and rat poison is a major component of rodent control. For a mouse/rat to eat poison, it has to have a palatable formulation. Formulation is the key! Our people are experts in formulation. And they have developed the worm to be palatable to a mole -- so they will eat it. I have videos of moles eating our poison worm -- not only that, but I have videos of moles eating our poison worm when they have access to real earthworms. As for the moleman, he is doing what he thinks is best. I will never say trapping doesn't work -- it does, but it is very labor intensive. However, these poison worms work -- he just isn't convinced. In the past, no poison worked -- now this one does. It may take time to convince those that have been spurned in the past. |
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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| After placing the Tomcat worms in the runways, a few days later I saw the runway moving and killed the mole with a shovel. Can I remove and store the worms I placed in the ground back in it's container to use next month, or has the effective poison in the worm leached out such that it is rendered useless for future use? |
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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| I wonder what a 'normal sized' dog means? What about a cat? Or a 'normal sized' child? How about grub and worm eating birds? There's no way that anyone can convince me that using highly toxic chemicals in this manner is safe, appropropriate or even responsible. |
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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| I agree with rhizo, why would anyone put a toxic poison in or on their soil? |
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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| And one that has the potential to be attractive to so many innocent critters? |
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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katefisher, I have no experience with the product but this is what I did find out. "Bromethalin" and "Bromodialone" are different products. The former is a nerve poison while the latter is a blood thinner. Bell Laboratories does not list "Tomcat" on their products list. This I know. Bell Laboratories have been pioneers and innovators in the field of rodent control. Moles are not rodents. This is what I do have experience in. For many years I was one of twelve field personnel in one company in one country who carried out field trials with rodenticides. These experiments were done under formal and strict guidelines and were replicated with other companies in many countries. They were all submitted to the Manufacturer(s) and were further scrutinized. This is what I am nervous (pardon the pun) about. I am not assured that the same rigorous testing goes into products now; I tune out the sound bytes which proclaim "Clinical studies prove!" I tune out the pitch by Technical Sales Representative which bombard me with glossy brochures, slick videos and fast talk but cannot address my concerns that revolve around terms like LD50 and TLV. To conclude, the forum is IPM and the first concept is 'The most benign treatment at the lowest effective dose'. Additionally, we have a weighty responsibility for sustainability, defined by the EPA as, "Meeting the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs". |
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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| I'll have to take time to read some of your responses:) This post is from so long ago I forgot about it, way back to2006. For what its worth we ended up buying traps that were never used and some garlic stake things that you put in the ground as a harmless repellent to moles/gophers and maybe vampires. I did not use or purchase the Tom Cat Mole Killer product. Thanks. Kate |
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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| Saw an ad for this product on the weather channel just last night and since my yard is inundated with moles I thought I would do a little research. We are commercial fruit growers here in central Washington state and I have been actively involved in growing apples and sweet cherries for the fresh market for nearly 40 years and we have practiced IPM in our conventional orchards for about four years now. We had no moles on our home place until the early 80s when they suddenly showed up in our home orchard. The mound was decidedly different from the pocket gopher mounds that we were used to seeing and that we had trapped ever since I was a kid. I suspect the moles moved in some 15 years after we stopped using DDT as the contaminated soil probably did them in for several years thereafter. In any event we have tried everything to control them in our lawn and yard. Don't mind them in the orchard, but in my lawn they are a real problem and I hate the unsightly mounds, which we have to mow over the top with a lawnmower. We tried the juicy fruit gum trick after Paul Harvey commented about using it on one of his broadcasts. What a joke that was! LOL! I definitely contributed to Wrigley's bottom line one summer without success. We also tried the gopher gas tablets without success as well. I am skeptical about this product's effectiveness simply because moles are mostly ground swimmers and unless you can place this bait just ahead of it's nose I don't think it will find it, let alone eat it. I believe that the product will most likely kill the mole if the mole ingests it, but I question whether the mole can actually find the bait simply because ground swimmers take new routes as they continually explore the soil for earthworms. We humans need three things to be happy; something to do, someone to love, and something to look forward to. Moles are a little different in what they need as are most all members of the animal kingdom. Basically, they all need something to eat, water to drink, and a like member of the opposite sex with which to reproduce and complete their life cycle. Earthworms provide both the food and water source for moles and I am of the opinion that if the food/water source can be eliminated the moles will move on or die out. The only problem I have with killing earthworms is that they are great soil builders. However, a lawn surface application of Carbaryl 4L watered in with yard irrigation would most likely do the trick on the mole's food source. I haven't tried this because I really do appreciate the benefit of earthworms in my lawn and yard, but these moles are getting to be more than we can handle and I am close to the breaking point. The only other thing that works is being in the right place at the right time with a shovel just as they are pushing dirt to the surface. I've sliced three of them in this manner, but it takes too much time and patience and you have to step very carefully and slowly as you approach their rising mounds because they are extremely sensitive to movement both above and below ground. To my knowledge moles have no natural enemies below ground, which is where they spend 99% of their time. TomCat mole killer, eh? I'll have to ask the Wilbur Ellis guys, the Northwest Wholesale guys, and the GS Long folks about this one! If it works and Tim Smith(local WSU cooperative extension agent) agrees, I'll buy a ton of it! |
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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| I am speechless. Surely this is a troll. |
RE: TomCat Mole Killer?
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| >There's no way that anyone can convince me that using highly toxic chemicals in this manner is safe, appropropriate[sic] or even responsible. Apparently, some individuals have reasoned that if they can live without chemicals in a dark corner of their basement then everyone else should be able to do so also. Perhaps you haven't had moles take over your lawn and yard? Well, I don't need convincing to know that chemicals were created to make life better for all of us. If anyone is a troll, it is the dolt who lives within the figment of his own perfect world where man and mole coexist peacefully because lawns and yards were meant to look like hell. Me thinks someone has joined PETA and is wanting to place moles on the endangered species list. |
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