Mike: this is what we are going to do when you move north. Cady has the computer and internet connection, and you can get a laptop from Dell. Then you start a blog. I am not the most adept at this stuff but I can help set it up, there are others with more knowledge who will also help with the set up. You can run your blog as if it were a tutorial and attach links and so on. I think this would be very useful and way more professional than leaving yourself open to abuse here. Let me know when you arrive, Cady has my e-mail address.

As one who is relatively new to the forum and wanted to get advice and ideas, I found that the forum was little help in that regard. That is the reason that there is little activity-or the forum seems dead.

A successful forum comes from people who want to help and to share their knowledge and opinions, not necesarily from "experts". People may not want the "perfect" Japanese garden but would like to incorporate certain aspects of that into their landscape. Along the way they learn more and more and come to appreciate the nuances and history. That is a good thing. Gardening and sharing ideas is fun. If it is not, the forum is dead.

Hi Mike and others,
Yes the forum has certainly gone down hill the last year with very little input from anyone, as you say Mike the one or ones that wanted to kill the forum certainly succeded.
George.

Here is a link that might be useful: George's Japanese Garden

Are they gone yet?

Howdy Yama, George and Inky, and greetings to Steve.

Hope we can actually use this space to talk about the gardens again without being told how wrong we are. Might get it back to good...

Scott

Mike
If you decide to create blogs as suggested I would be interested even though my main interst is Bonsai. I feel they work hand in hand.
I have enjoyed your input over the years and was disapointed when you wern't showing up..
I will check back to find your decision.
Paul

Yes, funny how slow it is. You'd think everyone was afraid of being shot. I'd have more to say if I knew something about Japanese gardening. I am interested in Japanese garden plants.

bboy
You wrote " I'd have more to say if I know something about Japanese gardening. Iam intrested in Japanese garden plants. There are many goods books to learn Japanese garden plants. It is just matter of your "will". Looking for in Japanse or In English ? How much are you willing to spend ? Why don't you ask to JOJG to inform you about plants using in J garden? I have heard that JOJG is the best Japanese garden magazine and provide very usefull, acurate informations. If you can spend extra $35 for 6 issue per year, You can learn a lot's from it.^^

Even you don't know about something about Japanese gradening, you can say whatever you want to say within rules.

If you are are refering me as " you " or someone else ? Who are the "every one" ? you or someone else ?

If anyone want to have shot from me, Say it so. I will try my best to give a shot. Do you want to have the first shot? ........ Hehehe

George
Before our time run out, we should vist each other. If you have chance to visit to US let's me to know. I will bring best Japanese tea. I am not drinking almost 3 years now. If you are drinker, I will join.^^

Steve
I think I have met you befor (7~8 years ago.) Your back yard is some how very look like of a custmer I have met. Alpharetta ? Facing your home, left side of your neigbor is higher ground than yours?

Scott
I don't think able to attend New England grow show this year. If you visit to the trade show, Save me catalog(s) of plug and small starter plants of bare roots or 2 1/2 to 4 inch pots.
japanesegardener1@yahoo.com Send me E mail or I call you week end.

Inky
Thank you. We will do it. I have talked to Robert Cheatam and I am going to help J garden.org to fill pages.
It will take time ( filling space of Plant list or something else)but just matter of time it will be done.
mike

Hi Mike,
I wander if this forum will come back to life again one or two of the old stagers seem to be putting an appearence in now.have you seen the book for prunning in the Japanese style which is going to be published in April called NIWAKI it looks like a good book by a guy who has studied the art in Japan.
George

Here is a link that might be useful: George's Japanese Garden

Cool looking site George .. and a gret garden but I can not dig into your site since I fear my steaks will turn to charcoal on the BBQ !!

... but after dinner I will check out your site for dessert.

Good Day ...

Hi George
let's bring back life of J garden forum togather. I also working slowly for Jgarden.org. Writing some thing usefull for others.
I didn't want to get into meaningless debate or aguments so that I walked off from j garden forums. ( here and there)
But I am angry. Because someone killed jgarden forum. I am going to fight. Whoever he/she is, his/her coments were consistent. He/her chenge name and pup up time to time and praise JOJG in short words. I am going to read old
posting and post it again What he worte. That will give us some hint. I know who he is but won't say here now. I am going to see what he/her going to act. If he/her comes back to J gardenforum, I will tell you where to look to compaire articles and show to you an email sent to my friend from the guy. He din't know we are friend. He thinks that he can damage someone's reputation.
If I have to, open up old wounds and I am not going to walk off this time. ( sorry Inky and Edzard, this time I won't walk off)

Mike, I don't think it is worth to waste your energy, time and talent to argue with these low life, garbage people. They just will bring more and more dirt, will enjoy to interrupt the Forum again. Just ignore them! One answer for their posting is enough to move it down.

The only solution for this problem is to screen the postings and ban the trouble makers, remove their postings or prevent it to appear on the forum.

Andrea

Hello Mike,
I don't think that we have met. I would have like to meet you and talk gardening. I lived near Roswell/Alpharetta for 20 years but my yard at my new house in Flowery Branch is quite different. Was 90% shade, now 90% sun.
I agree with Andrea. If it is possible for you, I think that letting the past wounds heal and moving forward would be best for the forum. I for one, don't really care who made negative postings in the past or will make them in the future. If the forum has people sharing ideas and giving each other advice, negative postings will have little effect and will probably go away. If they are seriously detrimental, then the Garden Web folks can take care of it.
I love to garden and learn more about it. I will find others with similar interests. Nothing anyone can post will have much of an effect on my attitude.

Steve

Hi Andrea
You know what happened to jgardden.org forum. web master of J garden.org removed the forum because of him/her. It staretd 4 or more years ago.Past 2 years or so was very bad. Edzard is gone. micheil of WA is gone. Christian is gone. many peoples who are trying to help others or enjoy to being here are gone. I have saved all bad coments and name of poster. So I know who he is even he use alias name or place he live. Someone who live Main can say I live Hawai or From New Hampshire,Pennsylvania or else where claim He is posting from other states or country.
He useed write long posting but that give good clue who he is. contents of his posting some how very alike of Some magazine's editional note.

Time to time some people stump away because I mentioned "Jap" word or relation between Japanese garden and Buddhism. I do not preach any religion nor endorse any religio,but when I explain history of Japanese garden Buddhism is big part of history of Japanese garden, tea ceremony, flower arengement. Japanese garden has uniqe in that aspect also. No other form of gardens have so close relation with religion. Korean Buddhism don't have close relation to garden, so does Chinese garden or any other Buddhist countries's gardens.

I am only Japanese who post on Garden forum regularly and working as landscaper,have mamy books to check fact and able to find answer for others. I don't answer to every questions however.
It is ok to have different opnion or his /her thought is different from historical aspect. name calling or personal attck is not. He /she killed J garden org forum as well.

This time we should work togather to kick him/her out from J garen forum instead of us walking away from jgarden forum.

It is only Garden........... This forum, we enjoy to exchenge ideas, helping others, asking questions and making friends. Not fighing or argueing. Under certain rule (s), it is ok to debate. when debate, open to others souce of information so that we/others can verify the facts.

Steve
Years ago when I work for golf course developer, the campany I worked for had about 750 acer of land at Flowerly branch. I know flowerly branch well. I have met local officials,few distigushed golf course designers, Lee torivino's team, son of Boby Jones, superintended of Augast national golf club etc. It was fun job and enjoyed the job.
japanesegardener1@yahoo.com ......... Please contact me

Mike, I know very well who are these posters, I've been here during that time, enjoyed the forum, got lots of help, ideas.
I still can't understand how could people turn into spiteful, mad creatures who wanted to destroy this forum, prevent others from exchange ideas, discuss many interesting subjects. What was the most disturbing how they recruited members from the Conifers Forum too to harass us and finally to make shameful fools of themselves.

I have a lot to do in my garden, we had/have the most horrible winter, strong wind, storm destroyed thousands and thousands century old trees in B.C., I lost one big hemlock tree and the front yard. Now I have a big area to play with, have to find old postings to get help. I already have around 100 rhodos, azaleas, ~25 J.Maples, ~30 conifers, ~60 J.M. seedling /3 years/ and many other plants. Collected truckloads of gorgeous green-brown granite rocks from the hill close to us.

I'm going to some sunny place for 5 weeks, for March the snow will melt, I can make photos, post it and ask for help.

I'm glad that you are back and try to make something of this forum.

Andrea

I keep looking here, I definately miss the J garden forum. Have decided not to renew my jojg subscription as it seems redundant.
This year I will have ample 2" dia bamboo to work with and my back is up to the task of setting more stones.
Let's keep this area active until the pop up ads drive us out.

Tom

I stoped jojg also. I liked there "how to" but there constant preaching got to me.
JOJG should stop telling others what to beleive and stick to the teaching "how to".
Paul

Hi All
Things are working well ^^

bambooo.. pup up make us crazy but won't drive us out. ^^

......................... mike

I'm new to this forum, and it's sad to see that it's been the vicitm of sabotage. It'd be a shame if the forum dies just as I've found it--I plan to create my own Japanese-style garden and I'm going to need all the help I can get. Would a moderated forum under the umbrella of a different host help solve the problem?

davidleefish,

this was and still a very valuable Forum , loaded with information, ideas, interesting discussions. Go back to the old postings, browse, ask new questions, bring back old postings with new questions, you will get answers and help.

Not the host, hostile posters ruined the forum, who just couldn't stand a competition, the professional Japanese Garden expert to help people free.

Is also a moderated forum. If it wasn't, believe me it would be quite different.

It is a shame that this has happened. It was a highlight of my morning to see what all of my digital friends have thought and said to help us all enjoy our gardens and the planning process.
Now, I check only occasionally, hoping that here, or there (Jgard.org) will spring to life. I have hope in us all. As Spring surely comes to the garden (and the weeds!) our forum discussions will resume.
Dave

Howdy again, y'all

I am tentatively popping my head in and still no sign of offending parties or rancorous dissent. Hope to be able to chat here more often again...

What once was is no no more; pop-ups and delusional types have done their worst. But Andrea is right, Yama-san. No point in going backwards. If we can make this good again, we win. If someone should return and start the vitriol again, we can either get him/her ousted or, barring that, find elsewhere. I have moved away from the web a lot in the past year, and I miss the contact and camraderie. That's all I want back; not the ugliness that caused me to leave in the first place. We can do it...

Scott

I agree completely with Andrea. Just resolve - no matter how aggravated you get - to never respond to people who are deliberately rude & offensive. Ignore them. They want you to get mad and probably delight in your doing so. Your angry response to their nonsense only encourages it. If things just get too annoying to ignore, continue your discussion with friends by private emails.

It sounds like we were visited by an internet troll. They delight in creating discord and conflict and then sitting back and watching the unhappiness and anger they have created. It is a form of mental illness.

The way to deal with them is, as sue141452 and Andrea said, is simply not to respond AT ALL. Just let their inflammatory posts sit there and carry on with the conversation.

I am in the planning/dreaming stage of developing two areas of our property and would live to have this forum to as a resource.

Here is a link that might be useful: link to info about trolls

You can check out www.myjapanesegarden.org , you can get good ideas and help from the people who moved to that forum.

Well, there are always several points of view when people are discussing "who's evil" in a public forum. Speaking from past experiences, there are long-time memebers here who are as self-centered as anyone supposedly sneaking in at some point and trying to disrupt things, so I don't know how one goes about distinguishing the "peaceful group" vs. "the evil outsider(s)"...I think the distinction is a myth :-).

Maybe the real problem isn't as much an obvious troll (or trolls) trying to create disharmony, but more pointedly certain group members themselves who want to throw out names of prominent gardening pros they "know" (translate: have met once in a seminar, maybe...) and themselves pose as experts. When it comes to expertise, it's good to realize almost all of us here are foreigners to this gardening culture, after all, and while we may even be professional landscapers (some), that doesn't automatically translate into expertise in Japanese landscaping. The JOJG is entirely correct in their stance of viewing non-Japanese "experts" being those who have some type of actual landscape training in Japan, or at least under well-known and respected landscape designers in the West who have already constructed public gardens and so forth. Under those standards, the rest of us foreigners are merely hobby gardeners, which is wonderful in itself. But if that's true, there's absolutely no reason to get on a Japanese garden forum and lecture others with a lot of bogus terminology and so on, which I see a lot of.
On the other hand, I do think disagreement on public forums is inevitable since we're all individuals. I even think it's healthy to have lively exchanges without a huge amount of moderation. It's really the only way to expand one's knowledge, if you think about it. If everyone agrees with you, what will you ever learn?
But there's never an excuse for personal attacks.
FWIW,
Jim

Hi all
After all, I miss excitment. Exitment of heated agument /debate. I like bring back more peoples who are intresting in Jpanese garden and Japanese culture.
One time I thought the information(s) I find is correct, after yeras of reading of different books and Often reading same book and find thing I miss before.

As Japanese, if I can help you to understand and know our culture better, then I should contnue to write about Japanese garden.

Jim : Thank you for your posting.
Having different opinion is not problem.but dscribing histrical even without histrical fact is wrong. Anyone can have opinion with histrical fact. IF he/she has different opinion then he /she should offer where his/her opinion came from.
Because of unplesent posting, many left GWjgarden forum.
It is sad that when people need to know things about Japanese garden, not much people can offer answer.

I don't repaly all question. Some people don't put any effort to find answer. I like to help to someone who spend his/ her time and effort, and still can't find answer.

When I write, I have to have dictionries, and before start write I check few books , make it surethat I am not providing wrong or inaccurate information. Offten Take many hours to write and find informations.
When Edzard asked me parts of stone lantern, to give him right answer, to find answer , it took me almost 3 years and I had to get over 100 books. It was slow process and 100's of hours of reading.
I made many friends over GW Jgarden forum but not making new friend. I miss that.
mike

Mike: go back to the message I posted here in January which still seems like the best option to me. Not everyone shares your insistence on the sutras although your practical knowledge gives you an edge. Did your participation in those other forums come to anything? It does seem that this field is full of people with immovable views with no attempt to see things from another point of view which makes the idea of a forum kind of self defeating. So I suggest that you go at it in your way (as a blog to start) and leave out trying to convert the whole world to your way of thinking. You will attract a following I am sure.

>It does seem that this field is full of people with immovable viewsMay not be limited to this field, unfortunately. High turnover not limited to this forum, either. Many others have had a procession of people come and go; perhaps even the bulk of them never were as busy as this one was at one time - from the start I zeroed in on certain ones that interested me (and had regular new posts) and have hardly been to any of the rest of them at all.

Maybe if M. Yama doesn't want to get his own thing going elsewhere he should just post his musings here. Not sure it matters if every one of them gets an answer. It seems there are plenty of people who lurk and don't say anything, so he wouldn't be talking to himself for that reason alone.

Almost one year later and still dead. Weird.

Wow! Lost touch about 2 years ago. What happened? No Edzard? Wow. This is truly sad. This was very informative. I guess change always happens. I just bought a new house, after being in an apartment for a year and a half. Starting my garden again!

Anyway, to all who read this: let's get this thing going again! Just pass on tidbits, discuss things, JUST DO IT! Ain't never been run off a site before, not starting now!

Don't be scared!

Hi
Edzard is doing well. He is busy to fixing his home.^^. after so many nasty postings on GW jgarden forum,
Most of us went to Jgarden,com then nasty posting followed to jgarden's froum too.( International Japanese garden society's web site). web master of Jgarden is fed up of many nasty posting and he shut down jgarden's forum. Michael/nachodaddy took over the site and started "myjapanesegarden.org" Most of us move to myjapnesegarden.org.
Since webmaster monitor the posting and register thir names,e mail address, those who were posted nasty articles , they stay away from myjapanesegarden.org.

We all know who were posting nasty postings . even making up his/her fake names and places of poster(S), content of writing lead to one place.
That is the story.
yama

What's odd is that a bunch of new people haven't come along since and gotten this one going again. Why would there be that level of interest before but not now? Was the old gang the extent of it, for years to come?

I think that there is a certain level of intimidation for new posters, since the discussions tend to gravitate towards the highly theoretical and abstract. I myself have not posted much in the few years that I have frequented the forum. The main reason why I think most newcomers do not stay is not because of the quality of the information they receive, but the type of information. Most people usually come, wanting a straightforward answer; a "quick fix." But that isn't what most regulars want to post: they want to give out good advice. It's difficult to give it when the question or context itself needs questioning.

- Audric

Mike, sir I have tried to steer you into a different direction because of my respect for your practical knowledge that is valuable. In spite of this you are insistent that your opinion on matters that some disagree with or find irrelevant is the main thing about Japanese gardens and this is what killed this forum. This is what drew the attention of the JOJG and why they chose to shut this whole thing down. Tread softly friend as some people know where you are coming from you just need to come at it from a different angle.

Hi Audric
Is about time you to finish college/Univarcity now? Are you working now? If I can help you any way Please let's me to know. Inky konw how to touch me or Go to myjapanesegarden.org and you will find my e mail address.

Hi Inky
Where have you been? Cady and I were wondering where you are and what you are doing. I am sorry to not responding to your post. Honestly I still have resentment to flock of XXXX. D.R wrote a letter to Scott few years ago and said he D.R can destroy some one's carrier.

most of all, many of peoples missguided. that bother me.
One time I took yours and many others opinions ^^.
Iam not going to write much here anyway.
You have my e maill address right? Don't be stranger.
mike

What happened ? I din't mess any font. strange thing happend.

Hey Mike,

Time flies fast, but not that fast! I'm still in my second year, with my hands very much full with projects, readings, the LA Student Society, and LABash. I'm looking into exchange options for next year's winter semester, perhaps with a little more focus towards the arts instead of design (for a change).

- Audric

Dear Inky
After I shut off computer,I thougt. Inky's word is same as Buddha teach us. I take your word and let it go.
Thank you. It is nice to have a good friend.

Audric
design and art can't separated . It is like coin. while your looking top of coin, you still holding botom.
After you finish school, you can go to Japan and teach Engilsh while you are paid by Japanese goverment and you can meet many schoolars and landscapers. you can take time off and visit to other countries to see different idea of landscape architect.
Some day we can see each other. Take care your self and do your best.
Mike

Mike: I am so glad that you received my message in the spirit it was intended. After I wrote it I was concerned that it might sound harsh or unjust and, as you know I have been misunderstood in the past (ask nachodaddy). Best wishes to you and cady.

loved reading your 2005! postings about ishi toro and light. ripples on the water never stop. Yama, Ed, Mike - pleasse keep going

They all moved to www.myjapanesegarden.org , you can read their postings there.

>the discussions tend to gravitate towards the highly theoretical and abstractAnd also towards other sites, apparently.

Yama and others, I hope you will start this forum anew. I would like to have a small Japanese garden area in my backyard, but I don't know where to start. I am originally from Hawaii but now reside in Kansas. Needless to say, the plants are very different. I am quite accustomed to Asian styles and would love to begin a small Japanese garden. I will keep checking back to see if this is still alive.

I do have many healthy peonies. Alas, my Japanese Maple of nearly ten years had to be removed this past year. We had a late killing frost last year and it was lost along with apples and peaches and all the peonies. The frost was unexpected so no one could prepare. A tragedy.

What you do is use locally available and successful materials to produce the desired scene. Japanese maple didn't work out, then you use something like Rocky Mountain maple or Amur maple instead. Or maybe some other kind of tree or shrub that isn't a maple at all but produces a similar appearance.

Thank you, bboy, good advice about locally available materials. I will look into the two you mention.

I've been thinking about this a lot. There is one area in my backyard where a red bud had to be removed a few years ago. It has been empty since, just a few annuals in a bed. Now I can see replacing the red bud with one of the trees you suggest, or perhaps even something I can shape. What if I learn to shape another redbud?

Depends on why the first one was removed.