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yama_gw

New discovery of Oribe toro

yama
19 years ago

Hi all

This topic is beynd intsrest of most of j garden forum reader. But some may stil have intrest in this subject.

I have been serching for Kanda collection today. becourse of other previous posting of Oribe toro of "kanda collection"

Edzard ,Scott,Herb, Don. This new findings blow my mind off. I may have to start reserch from scratch. I have to study Christian history to understand Tea ceremony, Oribe toro. ................ mike

Here is a link that might be useful: Christianity of early Japanese history

Comments (4)

  • Herb
    19 years ago

    Mike -

    That's very interesting. And you know something? I've often felt that the Tea cermony and the Christian Communion have a good deal in common, but I've dismissed as fanciful any idea that there might be a real connection. But now that you've written - " I have to study Christian history to understand Tea ceremony" - I suddenly start to wonder if it will turn out that there really is a connection.

    Herb

  • yama
    Original Author
    19 years ago

    Hi all
    Now I know what is kanda collection is. check link below.
    Can you see/understand why I have been saying Furuta Oribe himself nothing to do with hiden Christian objects on Oribe toro. Kakure kirishitan / secret Christian used Oribe toro.
    just like Holy mother. Kannon Bosatus was used to hide Holy mother..... If we study more about secret/hiden chistian and Christian Dainyo, we may find intresting things.........mike

    Here is a link that might be useful: kanda collection

  • kendal
    19 years ago

    I'm asuming the tea ceremony has been around a lot longer then the christian communion, so not surprised what you found. Everything having anything to do with spirituality has been around longer then christianity; therefore if you research enough you can find for each christian holiday/ritual some other culture had them first, for something that had nothing to do with god or christ, but everything to do with spirituality.

    Kendal

  • yama
    Original Author
    19 years ago

    Hi Kendal.
    your assmption is wrong. Monks and Nobles have been drinkng tea many handread yeras befor Sen no Rikyru started today's Tea ceremony. mainly keep monks awake and used as mediceine/herb.

    Many tea books new or old,and trediton of tea ceremony do not mentioned or removed any christianity from it.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    The first wave of Chrstianty to Japan and histoy of Tea ceremony overlap.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    you mentioned Christian holiday/ritual but there were no such things or words sunday or holidy in Japan until Meiji era. many Japanese small stores, craftmen took day off first day of month, 15th of each month or end of the month.

    From Day of Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Tokugawa Ieyasu to End of world war II over 450 years every level of chirstiany was hidden or pushed to corner of society. If you study and learn history of Japan, you will see Christiany at the time much differently.
    Grand father of Rikyu was Jodo shu Buddhist, [Tanaka Senami]
    he took his name Sen from Senami. Life of Seno Rikyu and
    tea ceremony were in every day life of Buddhism/Buddhist.

    (few of his deciples were Christian). Becourse of christianty was baned, many of literatuers/documents even do not mention christiany in the articles. Past about 150 years of history text book of Japan , baning christiany is mentioned. killing christians if they do not become buddhist. But only society of Christan call the historial event of baning Christiany as hollcost, slaughter[ sorry misspeling hollocost couln'd find word in the dictionay]

    If you know any good book(s)about this subject Please let's me to know........... mike

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