We like to call it "Wobbly-Slobby." :)

When I described the aesthetic of wabi-sabi to the (local Maine) carpenter who was helping build my teahouse-type building, he listened carefully, then said he thought it sounded like an excuse for doing sloppy work. Another carpenter remarked innocently (upon finding me loading precious bark-covered cedar branches into my truck) "Going to the dump?"

Wabi and sabi were once separate terms, but now they are generally used together. The wabi-sabi aesthetic became important when tea gardens arrived, around 1500.

Leonard Koren wrote a reputable book called "Wabi-Sabi for Artists, Designers, Poets & Philosophers" which I think tells the whole story quite well.

Lee

Hooo-Weeeee that Wabi-Sabi makes some good shrimp coctail! clear your sinuses out too!
:)

Can anyone hear a hollow sound, like knocking at the door when no one is home?
I like to look at a subject from all angles, this gives me the chance to broaden my view and get a better understanding. I feel that there is a connection between zen, sukiya and wabi-sabi but I can't quite put my finger on it, hence the question.
The study of humour can be equally as rewarding. For instance: if you indulge in sarcasm as a way of demonstrating your superiority as a put down you better make sure first of your superiority. Fools can't do this. A fool must rely on jokes; a pre-requisite of a joke is that it should be funny.

Yes, the connection between Sukiya and wabi-sabi.

Sukiya was originally, I believe, an attempt to express the concept of wabi-sabi in architecture. Wabi-sabi is humble, rustic, incomplete, imperfect, impermanent, etc.

Over the years, however, the Sukiya style has undergone more and more refinement. Now a Sukiya style building looks simple but not really rustic, and its imperfections are perfected to the "Nth" degree. It costs a fortune to build and can only be built by highly skilled craftsmen.

In my own Japanese garden structures I've been trying to get back to the original wabi-sabi aesthetic ("Neo Sukiya"?), which has the advantages of being achievable for an amateur builder (guided by aesthetic sensitivity) and much more affordable. It's actually truer to the intentions of the original teahouse builders, too, I think.

A connection between Zen and wabi-sabi is more indirect. The tea ceremony was a Zen practice. Wabi-sabi gained prominence as an aesthetic value in connection with the practice of tea and the building of teahouses and their (originally very minimalist) gardens.

Lee

Having always been a fool it is my nature .
The tea master Sen No Rikyu would be a good place to start.
His emphasis on the rustic simplicity in no way indicated poor workmanship. Think more of a doorknob worn smooth so that it's feel is familliar to your hand, or stones worn smooth from a thousand years of footfall.
Wabi cha , as in the tea ceremony was much more than the rustic simple nature of things.
But then words are not reality and we are subject to the limitations of language. What does milk taste like? :)

Sima Eliovson's book, Gardening The Japanese Way defines Wabi and Sabi, at Page 28, under the heading 'Japanese Taste', and says -

"The Japanese words wabi and sabi are essential concepts behind the creation of Japanese gardens and were related to gardening by the Tea-master Sen-no Rikyu, who wanted to induce a frame of mind that would appreciate quiet elegance. "Wabi" may be interpreted as rustic simplicity and an appreciation of simple frugality. "Sabi" is an appreciation of surfaces and textures that reflect age and usage, such as those on natural, unpainted wood, weathered stone, moss-covered rocks and dried bamboo."

Even more interesting, apropos Japanese culture in general, it then comments -

"The Japanese adjective "shibui" and its noun "shibusa" describe a discriminating taste that is as applicable to gardens as it is to other things in art and behaviour. It may be interpreted as a dislike of ostentation, and an admiration of a refined, cultured, and unassuming demeanour....."

That seems to suggest that both put-downs and attempts to demonstrate superiority are in poor taste does it not?

Herb

Thanks bambooo, an olive branch is it? Pax.
Yes it is difficult to explain a concept with only words as a guide I agree. In your examples you talk about the effects of ageing, how would you reproduce this in a new piece? Or is it not something that can be manufactured?

Ink,

I know you asked if anyone would like to describe wabi-sabi....I don't feel fully qualified to do that, but I humbly offer these worn links...with outstreached sunburned hands, upon wrinkled leaves, in the fog...

http://www.hermitary.com/house/aesthetics.html
http://pweb.sophia.ac.jp/~britto/deekid/task17/aine17.html

does wabi-sabi have currency?,...you bet!
Have you checked the investment value of antiques lately?

faked patina isn't.

best,

sabi

Two more cents, from Leonard Koren's book "Wabi-Sabi for Artists, Designers, Poets & Philosophers" (p. 32):

"The first recorded wabi-sabi tea master was Murata Shuko (a.k.a. Murata Juko, 1423-1502), a Zen monk from Nara. Around this time in secular society, tea had become an elite pastime indulged in, in no small part, because of the prestige associated with ownership of elegant foreign-made tea-related objects. Shuko, in opposition to this fashion, used intentionally understated, locally produced utensils whenever possible. This was the beginning of the wabi-sabi aesthetic in tea."

Another really good book which gives a detailed description of the history of the tea ceremony is "The Tea Ceremony" by Sen'o Tanaka and Sendo Tanaka.

Lee

I have only more questions! What kind of experiences are part of wabi-sabi? Can it be felt as well as seen? I feel I experience the wabi-sabi in nature when, for instance, viewing old mossy stone or touching an ancient tree, bent by many years and experiences. But how deep do we dig in looking for wabi-sabi in something man-made? Can anyone feel the power in an old relic? Can the same power be experienced from a good replica? Indeed, can wabi-sabi be created in the way something is presented?

When there are more questions than answers you know you are headed in the right direction.
I found your links very helpful chemo thanks and now you are off to Japan and China. Take a lot of photographs.

Tough to answer when the words don't translate well at all; I remember the opening of Koren's book saying that if you ask a Japanese person to describe wabi/ sabi the first thing you'd get would be an apology.

Lots of word pairings to describe it in that book too. Think uniqueness/authenticity and your not far wrong.
Aesthetic/patina is another good pair. But a solid definition? Not from me...

Would anybody like to name examples of gardens where it might be generally agreed that the qualities of wabi-sabi exist?

Conversely, I suggest that a garden where wabi-sabi is less evident would be the Adachi Museum garden. I've never been there and am judging only from photographs, but from them and from the descriptions I've read of it, while it's a wonderful work of art, it's just a bit too perfect. What do you think?

What a wonderful observation, Herb. Adachi is great attention to detail, after the tea-style persuit of perfection - sort of - but not a trace of what I think of as the honorable wabi-sabi.

Interesting to be challenged to link garden names to wabi-sabi. I only think of elements associated with gardens that I respect for this trait. From my Western soul's eye, I consider the weathered icons, such as worn lanterns in Katsura detached palace, giant floor planks of Byodoin Temple, the worn bronze hinges and caps of Nijo and mountainside temples, even the water itself of Kiro-misu shrine in Kyoto!

Even here in San Antonio, there is a garden named as a Japanese Tea Garden, with little resemblance to most ideas of that garden style. Still, it has such elements as its steps of stone, worn after only 70 years to show the provocative indentataion of so many soles ( or to wabi-sabi, would it be souls?). Thinking of how it has progressed through wars that impacted its designers, cartakers, and visitors, is it the worn stone, or the experience of the stone that so captures we that hunger for such?

You see a tree branch that represents a spirit or ideal - the carpenter thinks you are taking it to the dump. I see a stone on a beach that holds the image of Buddha, you may not. Perhaps, as individuals, we attain a personal knowledge of wabi-sabi. That is, we come to know it on our own plane. Maybe that is why it is so hard to describe it to each other? We can only grow by continuing to share. Thanks.

From what I have learned here I would suggest that the garden (or at least part of garden) that Reed and Madden did and was shown here recently is an example of wabi-sabi.

I think the Kokedera would have to lead the list; here's a garden that was allowed to "patina" with moss for two hundred years (now THAT'S sabi...) ;)))

Scott - I just google-imaged Kokedera & I see what you mean. I particularly liked this result - Click here

Here's one of several web-sites that discusses this topic. I had thought that Sima Eliovson's book mentioned a feeling of 'melancholy' as an ingredient of wabi-sabi but I couldn't find the reference in the text. However, this web-site mentions it too. -
Click here

Eureka! If wabi-sabi may be a thing with flaws, and a thing weathering of age, then I am closer to it that I thought. :)

We know wabi-sabi may also refer to "things recycled" such as the mill stone step or the pier stone base, and the lantern used in the garden when no longer useful for the temple (Eureka again!).

And, as I hold a treasured tea bowl, with its unique irregularities and history, I see wabi-sabi flash in the eyes of the tea master, letting me know it would be appreciated if I would use both hands!

Looking into the garden from where I sit tonight, and not considering favorite stones or special plants, I would pick out the small, old, iron lantern that sits on the basin, its fat candle reflecting the subtle ripples of the water surface, as my example of wabi-sabi.

It would be interesting to hear what other's feel is their particular piece of wabi-sabi. So desu ne?

Don, not so sure that wabi-sabi refers to things recycled- the mill stones, pier stones etc - to which you refer. I believe the term 'mitate' describes this 're-use' of old materials in the garden.

You are correct! Parden my blunder.

Ink: Thanks for your kindness. I'll post some when I get back.

Scott: two hundred years is a good beginning for a timeless look, neh?

Don - in my garden I like the weathered, grey cedar fence.Instead to have a new one, I search for old planks to repair it as needed.

We value antique furnitures,books, objects, even try to imitate the look on new pieces with holes drilled, paint faded or scratched.

My treasured, antique tea cap (sorry, no bowl)is from my father, on Sunday special visits when we talked for hours drinking tea, he always chose the one with the hairline crack, because "the imperfect is closer to the heart" he explained, and never forgot to add - with a wink " you are my favorite off my three daughters".

Andrea

Well, the two hundred years for the patina was around the 1400's, so it's had some time to develop since...

And Andrea, if being cracked is a requisite for good wabi/sabi, then I must have it in abundance...

Your antique tea-cup is priceless. And I imagine, so are you. I have a huge coffee mug from my father - broken handle and all. It is valuable because it is something he often held for as long as I can remember. No antique, just memories.