Return to the Japanese Gardens Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

Posted by Herb Victoria, B.C. (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 3, 04 at 22:29

I shouldn't think this is intended to be a Zen garden, but the gravel sets these off quite well, I think? -

Click here to see


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

Hmmm, looks a bit like an early Hollywood impression of what the martians might land in.


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

A little heavy, phallic and gothic-looking!


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

perplexed,.. i know I'm being taken for a ride, with the comments.. no? you're not serious...
bronze bells are exceptionally important symbols.. garden? ah ..no, not to my eyes. Yet gravel helps keep the feet clean...
new summation of garden??: when you see gravel its probably a garden??
and then for historical interest, one might add that Japan did not really have a bronze age.. after a dabble and an introduction, just went straight to steel.


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

It looks like two metal sculptures all right. But for some reason I would not associate them with a Japanese Garden.

But two very interesting lanterns, photo 2 and photo 65, are in this group of photos. Photo 65 is very intreguing. I have not seen a lantern like this one before. Anyone know the history behind this one.

Cheers Jando


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

  • Posted by Herb Victoria, B.C. (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 4, 04 at 12:35

I don't like the lantern in photo 2, but I agree about that in photo 65 - I think it's rather attractive. I haven't seen one like it before either. I'm also surprised that the caption says it's a stone lantern. The parts below the light box may be stone, but to my eyes the entire thing looks as though it's made of wood.


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

Hmm Edzard, you are not the only one who is perplexed. Bells would normally be suspended in a position where the wooden striker could be swung against them ?


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

Herb, this looks more like the elephant graveyard you showed us than anything else. And phallic? In a pair? Perhaps looking at some Yayoi fertility goddesses might make Bungalow Mike think otherwise...


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

Is this a quiz? can anyone play?
In the park in the town where I grew up there was a bandstand and a paddling pool, there were benches to sit on and swings to swing on. There were ornamental flower beds laid out with seasonal displays lots of grass and a monument to the parks benefactor one John Cole. No one of these could individually make a claim to being a park all on its own yet together they seemed right.
I visited other places where there were canons displayed and canon balls, when I was young you could climb up on this primitive gun and then they fenced it off and covered that area with fine gravel for easy maintenence. I never ever saw this canon and the gravel as a garden or a anything else other than what it was. It may have been something else according to some secret code I was not aware of but to me it was a canon with gravel around it.


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

hey, phallic is great.
Still a little heavy.


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

Mike or Edzard do you know what type of lanterns these are?

Cheers Jando


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

  • Posted by Herb Victoria, B.C. (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 5, 04 at 14:40

Jando - I don't know about No.65, but according to the book by Saiti & Wado, 'Magic of Trees and Stones', the one in picture 2 is an Omokage lantern.


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

  • Posted by yama 7b Ga (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 7, 04 at 12:05

Hi all
some time those bells get old and have crack or temlpe can not rebuild building of bell tower financialy, what ever reasons are they do not throw away histrical bells. It looks not best possible way to preserve historical objects, but they are doing the best possible way they could preserve it. desease members of temples put money togather and made those bells. descendants of temples members and the temple it's self will keep it as long as temple and "danka"< members of temples> exsist on earth.

since I can not read sign this is my guess. mike


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

  • Posted by yama 7b Ga (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 7, 04 at 18:58

Hi June
it is not a lantern. it is bell/gong. some time bell cracks after many years of use, those retired bell/gong are displaying at the temple. (or melted it and make new one ). What ever reason is ,why not in use. it is not a lanteran. ................................... mike


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

So Mike, photo number 65 is a bell gong that they put a little roof on for display. If so, good reuse of material, it is very interesting the way they have used it.

And thanks Herb for identifying the lantern in photo 2.

Cheers Jando


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

But what does Omokage mean. I could not find out. I like to know the meaning behind the lanterns and I was unable to find this. Any help out there???

Cheers Jando


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

  • Posted by yama 7b Ga (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 10, 04 at 14:48

hi june
Omokage is like "memory of..." mike


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

I think somebody needs to open a window,
My previous post was obviously too enigmatic.
The first picture shows two bells displayed and set in gravel for some reason that has nothing to do with zen or Japanese gardens.
The lantern in picture 65 is an original, a beautiful but not very practical wooden lantern.
Que?


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

When a bell tolls unheard, is a lantern extinguished?

sabi


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

If practicality were the prime objective of lantern makers would they not be made more similar to street lights. I hope that is'nt too enigmatic.


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

No puzzle there Niwashingsan.
A momentary lapse on my part, I forgot that Japan has electricity now.


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

Oooh nasty nasty Tobyjugs


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

Late reply to this query - but the bell in question look a lot like a World Peace Bell. We have one in Cowra Australia - see link:

Cheers Kane

Here is a link that might be useful: Cowra Peace Bell


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

Another late reply:

Although Japan did not have an age in which their technology was limited only to bronze, that doesn't mean they didn't ever use bronze.

Bronze is commonly used instead of steel because it is more easily worked, and can be cast into intricate shapes [Steel cannot be cast: it would turn into (low-quality) cast iron.]
Bronze also doesn't rust :)

Most importantly, bronze has the right strength and flexiblity to make a good bell. Steel would be too rigid, making for an unpleasantly shrill bell tone. Cast iron would have a dull, muddy tone; and also might break upon being repeatedly struck.

I agree with Mike-san: these bells appear to be a memorial of some type, not currently in use due to cracking or lack of a place to hang them (or perhaps in memory of some event), but preserved as monuments for some reason (probably clearly explained on the little unreadable sign :)

- Evelyn


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

I pruned in the snow today! What a joy for a guy from Texas! Although the snow stopped, it started again every time the saw rocked the trees.

OK, I know these bells... They are either in Nijo Castle or in a courtyard near the museum at Byodoin Temple. The structures that held them deteriorated and they were not reinstalled after the structures were rebuilt, but put on display inside the courtyard. I must get the slides and verify where they were (when I return to SA). Meanwhile, I will just settle for some more homemade eggNOG and read your comments!

You probably all know that sand, certainly often used in gardens', has longer been used to commemorate a sacred area.

Inspired by Wasabi's comment: If a man is in the forest, and there is not a woman there to hear him, is he still wrong?

sorry...

dp


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

You sound like my son when he was four dp you have rushed to the punch line.
Telling a joke is an art and it is all in the timing of the telling so that the form is more important then the punch line. Japanese are very good at it and so are the English, there are probably a few other obscure connections but...


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

Who said that was the punch line? Besides, I said I was getting old. It is only a mater of time before I too, am 4 years old.


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

dp,

Yes.

- Evelyn :)


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

THERE'S the punch line! So desu, Gorfram!


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

(So, what's the emotion for smug? ;)


 o
Rats!!!

Make that:

"what's the *emoticon* for smug?"

- Evelyn, feeling not-so-smug :)


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

Good question, Evelyn. Could it be something akin to ;^)?


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

Speaking of smug Evelyn, I did find the slide of the bells/gongs in question. Here is a photo from a different angle with a sign maybe someone can read? They are in Nijo castle of Kyoto.

Do I get the door prize? (: ) >----I:

d

Here is a link that might be useful: Nijo Bells


 o
RE: Intriguing combination, though not Zen?

Thanks, dp :)

I have placed your door prize (6 ft. x 3 ft., solid core steel) in a #10 envelope and mailed it to you: please wait breathlessly by your mailbox for delivery :) :) :)

- Evelyn

(PS to Yama-san: is there any chance of making out a few of the characters on the sign?)


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Japanese Gardens Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here