The bath thing is not a bad idea and certainly Japanese. I have heard from others about the Japanese preference for the green form of maples, although if you look at all the Japanese named cultivars with colored foliages it seems that Japanese gardeners are not ABOVE red or even varigated foliages...

As for the other comment, feel free to judge on your own who supplies a more diverse and open opinion based on multiple sourcing and who is trying to set themselves up as a sole authority on the subject, based more on personal opinion than the truth of a given subject. Compare what gets written there and what gets written here with the likes of Keane or Nietschke or Slawson or Conder and I think the truth of this given subject is most apparent...

Scott

Scott -

I guess we have, as you say, to make our own minds up.

I agree with you that David Slawson's opinions deserve attention. I should perhaps have mentioned that he's one the 14 people contributing to the "Overrated & Underrated" article. He wrote the piece headed "Design Principles".

I'm not familiar with the names of all the other 13 contributors to the article, but Tim Hanksen and William Stufflebeam are among them.

Herb

For us our learning is shared and what we learn is an iterative process. The closest thing to an expert I have encountered here would probably deny it.
Probably the best approach to the arguement is the approach that Hakuin took- "Is that so!"
And when you think about it this forum sends the JOJG paying customers, maybe for the renewal fee I should have bought the Okatsune pruning shears instead!

JOJG= over-rated
doing what you enjoy, planting what you like, being open to a difference of opinions, taking the "high path" to authenticity (Slawson), and most importantly being humble= under-rated

Michael

Okatsune shears are a good investment.

I value all the opinions I find here most highly...

Another article that's rather intriguing recommends a floor to ceiling window to give you a better view of your garden - from your bath. What do you think about this last one?

Nice idea, but it would not past the California Unified Building Code in Architectural compliance.
All operable windows must now be 36" above finished floor height for child safety reasons. ( splat )

Mich -

How curious. It sounds like over-zealous bureaucratic regulation to me.

I wonder if the code's definition of "operable window" includes sliding glass patio doors such as ours that go right down to the floor? Or traditional Shoji screens? And how about French doors?

Herb

ah geez Herb- you had to go and mention the French doors in the Japanese Garden thing again....didnt we beat tthat to death last year? :-)

Steve -

Your memory's better than mine! Actually I tried to look up the California Unified Building Code to see what it had to say about windows - and the Internet produced such a mountain of regulations, all written in obscure, convoluted bureaucratese, that I gave up.

Herb

A door usually has a landing.
windows usually don't.

guess one too many kids dropped to their death from a low positioned window . In Marin County last year , a child fell out of the Embassy Suites Hotel window and they had to augment safety railings across all their windows.

This is a fairly newish code compliance law for our state. There have been other specifications about window placement , but several new paragraphs were recently added to our UBC.

I am constantly entrenched in this crap when ever I go down to review or submit plans for Design Review or submit for permit.
It baffles the mind.

I was building an addition with an open engawa from 2 to 4 feet above a Japanese style courtyard garden. Code compliance made me add a handrail and grid that completely negated the engawa effect. I ended up using cypress rails with a wire mesh. It was still imposing, but at least not as vision restricting as lattice or slats.

The idea of using sliding glass doors is good if the floor is at ground level and the landing (required by code of course) won't interfere with the view. Otherwise, a fixed window is also a reasonable alternative that wouldn't require the landing or sill height. Code may require it to be tempered or safety glass.

I had a Japanese bath built, complete with the floor drain, cypress tub and place to shower while sitting on a stool. It also had two large windows, neither of which you could see a thing out of while in the bath because of the steam from the bath. (Unfortunately, I no longer live in that house...) One of the windows opened, so you would theoretically have a view outside. The lack of outdoor lighting and absence of my very necessary glasses, however, made the whole thing a moot point.

All the public and onsen baths I've been to in Japan (with garden views) have had a view through an opening that is not covered by glass (e.g., an open wall).

Lee

Lee raises a good point.
And thinking about it, I realize that I've seen more than a few books touting huge picture windows over a "Japanese style" bath, but none of them show a spec of fog or steam on the windows (I'm figuring they filled the soaking tubs with cold water for the sake of the photographer).

In Maine it is 18 inches the lowest code will allow a window. However sliding glass doors are fine and sidelights the windows beside doors can be floor level also. We had side lights installed in our new house so a low slung Corgi dog could see out. They have become my favorite view of my garden.
A narrow strip of window that the view changes constantly when one moves in the room. My tub room has a large window that I can see out from in he tub. I have no problem with fogging I think due to a quiet exhaust fan in the ceiling and the fact that I prefer my soak cooler than some. The window does slide and it is quite wonderfull when I can open it.
Fond memories of public baths in Japan so many years ago with openings to gardens my favorite had a path with places to walk after soaking.

Hi folks,
I'm just getting into this Japanese garden idea. I have a space in my backyard which seem perfect for it. So far I have just sat and looked out my door and tried to listen to what the land has to say. As a gardner I'm obviously not a proponent of totally natural landscapes, but I do believe my best results have been obtained when I have taken the time to interact on a non-verbal level with empty spaces.

As far as the window thing goes. When I bought my house it had a fairly large single-pane fixed window in the bathroom (36 x 36 inches). It was set away from any fixtures, but when you stood by the tub you could see out it.

At first I wanted to replace it with an opening window, but now it has become a great delight. It is like an ever changing picture frame! Especially in winter it provides me a nice long view of my yard, and I've come to love the fact that there aren't any panes.

We do have an air blower, so it isn't necessary to have it open. It steams up but even that diffused light looks pretty, and you can always wipe it clear. A window that is right in front of the tub would surely scare my conservative neighbors--haha!

A few weeks ago, I found a small evergreen seedling growing beneath the bushes in my sideyard bed. That's what got me thinking about Japanese gardens.

I lived with a Japanese man for several years and envied his Oriental perspective on shapes and forms and rythyms.

I enjoyed all the comments in this forum very much. Good luck (I think the japanese say--gumbati kudasai?) caroleann

Hi Caroleann,

You have made a good start and a wise decision to take your time and listen to what the land has to say. Remember to take into consideration what you see in the distance and try to incorporate or hide the view. Have fun it is going to be a wonderful journey.

Cheers Jando