I'll have to look for that book, Herb. I've been interested in the topic of modern Japanese landscape architecture and garden design, but it's hard to find much information.

Fran

It's one of my favorite JG books. The commentary is well-written and I don't think I found any suspicious comments in it (like, written by someone who doesn't really know about Japanese gardens). I love the Shunmyo Masuno gardens.

Lee

Here's a link to Japan Landscape Consultants website.

Shunmyo will be in Canada in late May to receive an award from our Govenor General as well as an honourary degree from UBC.

"Inside Japanese Gardens - From Basics to Planning, Management and Improvement"

was published a couple of years ago and is an excellent how to book. Unfortunatly the Japanese Govenment purchased almost the entire printing (both English and Japanese) for its' Embassies throughout the world, as such I.m not sure that it is available right now.

Gerald

Here is a link that might be useful: Shunmyos' website

Interesting quotaion from his web site

"When asked what the garden means, Shunmyo explains, the garden is a special spiritual place in which the mind dwells. The gardens he creates are the places which hold his expressions of mind"

Didnt we heavily debate the role of spirituality in the JG over the winter? Does he find spiriuality in the garden because he is a priest or does he design it into the garden because he is one?
further- can some who is not spiritually inclined design that intangible into a garden?

/coach/ steps back and watches........

In essence it is designed into the garden not just because he is a priest, rather because meditation and inner spirituality is expressed in the garden as it is into a musical piece.

I would say if you are not approaching the design with that inner spirituality then no, the feeling of the space can not reflect that intangibility.

Gerald

I found this site very interesting and came away thinking he had answered for me what a Japanese Garden is. The expression of the creaters mind through the creation of the garden. And if well done it touches the minds of visitors in a special way. This quote was especially meaningful to me. "There is nothing special in water and mountain, there is special only in the mind of people."

Thanks for the site Gerald it was a good one.

Cheers Jando

A garden can certainly be an expression of its designer's mind, and the resulting garden may well be enhanced by the designer's - and the viewer's - spirituality.

However, while this can explain why a particular garden has certain intangible qualities, it is not an essentially retrospective explanation? In other words we can say - "this is how this garden came into existence".

But on the other hand, if somebody comes to us and says - "I have a space that I want to turn into a Japanese garden - please tell me how to do it - what I should plant, and where, and so on." - then (short of advising him to employ somebody like Shunmyo Masuno or the late Professor Mori, or Shinichiro Abe to do the work) what advice would he find of most use? My own inclination would be - go and visit gardens like Nitobe and get the 'feel' of them, note details that you like, & get what you can from books that appeal to you.

Herb, a spiritual expression of ones inner self that is able to touch and evoke or awaken emotion in others is not mere enhancement.
A bigger lantern, a bamboo stick with running water out of it, etc can be considered ornamentation and falls into enhancing, or beautifying the garden.
Definetly, visit as many gardens as possible, but always try to feel the garden, not just view it.

Gerald

Gerald - I entirely agree with you that to design a successful garden you do need to approach it - as you said in you April 19 post - with the necessary inner spirituality.

But at the same time, the inner spirituality needed may well be something that the garden designer doesn't possess, and then I don't think it can help him much to advise him to supply it.

IWhat I'm trying to say is that it seems to me that it isn't an ingredient that can be ordered like a load of topsoil - rather it's a quality that can only be detected after the garden's been made. Maybe I'd better qualify that a bit & say that if you can find somebody like the late Professor Mori to design a garden you can expect inner spirituality to be evident, as for example in the area in the Nitobe garden round the very big lantern and in some other places - but designers of his calibre aren't easy to find.

Herb.

The Memorial Lantern area is a very special space within the Garden Herb. And it wonderfully exhibits one of the the most important calculations used to create the Garden, a truly masterful use of light and shade.
The corect name of the Garden is 'Nitobe Memorial Garden'
btw Herb,great photos of the garden.
Gerald

Gerald -

Despite my having said, at least a year or two ago, that I was going to visit the Nitobe Memorial Garden again, I haven't yet done so. When I do, I still hope I can rediscover the upper path that used to be easily accessible & that you indicated is now a hidden service path but can still be found. I just hope that I'll be able to take some pictures of the highest part of the path.

Meantime, I must go again to the Royal Jubilee Hospital in Victoria where it's planned to construct a new garden of the same name, and see how the work's coming along - if it is. The latest report I read about it was that they'd under-estimated the cost & were trying to raise more money.

Herb

Inner spirituality is wonderful, but perhaps it is too opaque and overwhelming an idea for beginners.

I like to think that the garden --and all design --must at least express an idea, whether a thought or feeling.

It doesn't have to be the deepest idea, just the play of light, or a color one likes, or a material that reflects the spirit of where you are, or something playful, or the way stone or a piece of wood (or even plastic) looks. One just has to come up with an idea --the get out of the way of the idea --and let the idea express itself. And then the hard part, remove everything you love that has nothing to do with the idea.

And then, even though you are a beginner, you are doing exactly what a master does, although not so well, and perhaps what God does sometimes.

But this suggestion is just for beginners, not for experts who know so much and have authentic knowledge.

What kind of calculation are you talking about?

Some people in Japan think that Masuno is joke. After all, what is a monk doing on TV shamelessly plugging himself and trying to sell things? It's true that in Japan monks can do whatever they want and aren't expected to live up to any specific moral code, but even here he's kind of embarassing.

Re Coachsmyth's comment, here's my 2 cents:

As for the meaning of a garden; the Sakuteiki, with all its rules, still tells to do what is necesary to make sure the garden reflects the spirit you have in mind in the building of it.

And to the spiritual aspect; my Sensei was a Shinto Priest, so it is possible my exposure was tilted in that direction. However, in training under 3 others during that time, it seemed to be a constant - at least in the Kyoto area. (I do admit my concern with the comercialism I saw from some of the Priests in the more well known temple gardens.)

Wow Bill Archer, what a statement. To attack another persons' moral ethics, on a garden chat no less.
I'll just assume it was late nite and you drank a lot of sake. I will give you a piece of advice though.
When judging morals do try to focus on looking inward.

Gerald

I ordered this book and I'm not very impressed with it. To me the gardens seem shallow and plastic. Masuno's "Zen garden" BS doesn't rest well, either. I wish I could have seen this book before purchasing it.

Why not return it ???

Gerald

patjonking - and there's always ebay ;) --- but what did you mean by "zen garden Bs" ? can you expand a little on that?

I thought Masuno's explanations were well considered, and merely shows the way he approaches his own work.

I didn't sense any 'preaching from the pulpit' or other overweening ("memorize these 850,000 mantras before you call yourself a designer") pap

I guess if you didn't like his designs - that's a personal preference...

Jack

So what's the real issue here. I wonder if it is connected to a loss of spirituality (or perhaps unacceptance of forgeign spiritualities) in the West(I dare, say American Society)

This distain and attitude to Japanese spirituality has grown and been seeded by a segment of the Western population. An abvious case is JOJG. They have consistantly knocked the existance of Zen, spirituality and religious beliefs. To the point of denying factual history and its' obvious influence on the Japanese arts.

This spirituality is also feared, misunderstood and under fire in Japan. Perhaps one of the main reasons being, is how the leadership used religion to con the population during the last world war (1933 - 1945 in Japanese years). There is more to this though, and not the question here.

But why is there such an overt anti Western move against Japanese spiritualism. What is Douglas Roth, editor of JOJG and others so afraid of. Is it connected to pedifile priests and a breakdown of the local beliefs, forgeign terrorists cloacked in perverse spirituality, a fear of facing oneself, or just a simple I don't get it, so its' bad.

Gerald

I subscribe to JOJG and I think it's a great publication. I completely agree with their take on the bogus "Zen Garden" foolishness that that seems to be all over the place. It's interesting that you imply that JOJG and the Japanese population are in agreement, but you then go on to criticize both.

By the way, I didn't like the book, either, and for the same reasons that patjon said. There's a sucker born every minute, and Masuno seems to be well aware of that fact.

Keith, I too think JOJG is a good publication, I personally know Doug, that dosen't mean we have to agree on everything. I certainly did not intend to critize Doug or the Japanese population.

"bogus "Zen Garden" foolishness" certainly does exist, and quite prevelent in the West, but there is also the real thing. I'm sorry you have such a skeptical feeling towards Shunmyo. Perhaps if you visited his temple you'd see things differently. I've known him, his family and Temple for over 15 years now. He is a 18th generation head monk at his temple. Yes he loves hamburgers and bloody ceasers, but that dosen't make his morals,spirituality and devotion hollow.

http://www.civilization.ca/societe/annrpt95/rp2ape.html

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050531f2.htm

Gerald -

When I clicked on the second of those links, & saw the picture of Shunyo Masuno pointing out an element in the garden at Kenkoji Temple I wanted to see a bigger version of the scene he was indicating.

So I tried various search combinations - Kenkoji, Kenko-ji & so forth but found only one result that looked promising so I clicked on it.

Usually when a link doesn't work you get a message that says something like - ERROR! 404 Not found!.

This time though, the message read -

"Perhaps the file you desire existed previously.

It does not exist now.

Confronting impermanence profoundly can open us to liberation."

Boy do I feel cheated. One of my teachers was nominated as a candidate to National Living Treasure of Japan by the Emperor for his knowledge, the other a respected Japanese gardener from many generations of gardeners. Both of these respected authorities lead me to believe Buddhist and Shinto influences ARE and WERE a huge influence on Japanese gardens, their design, and their evolution. This kind of misinformation has evidently been going on for hundreds of years, spanning back to the roots of Japanese gardening!

When will these people catch on that they and their great- great- great- great grandfathers just didn't know the facts? ;)

Hi Herb, please note the spelling error. it is Kenkohji. The H is uncommon. Click below and you'll get to the site. Keep in mind that google searches in North America can often miss jp sites.

So again the question begs an answer.

Why is there such an overt anti Western move against the expression of Japanese spiritualism through the traditional arts.

Gerald

Here is a link that might be useful: Temple photos

Gerald - thanks for that link. I think you stated the situation succinctly when you wrote - " "bogus "Zen Garden" foolishness" certainly does exist, and quite prevalent in the West, but there is also the real thing."

The problem, I think, is that so many westerners can't tell the difference, combined with there being market forces at work. A good many salesmen have discovered that there's money to be made by sticking the 'Zen' label on things & by posturing about history and spirituality . I wonder it that's really what's behind Doug Roth's position - i.e. better no talk of these things than people being taken in by the bogus stuff?

Herb